Lords Sitting of 11 July 1831

MINUTES.
Bills received the Royal Assent. Buckingham House Garden-wall; Patent Grants (Ireland); and Deputy Lieutenants Indemnity (Scotland,).
Petitions presented. By the Marquis of CLEVELAND, from Protestant Inhabitants of Barna, in Galway. By the Duke of RICHMOND, from St. Nicholas, Galway; and by Earl TALBOT, from Bohermon, Galway, for the Extension of the Elective Franchise to Roman Catholics. By Karl TALBOT, from a Society at Birmingham, to extend Poor-laws to Ireland. By the Earl of SHARTESBURY, from the Grand Jury of Chester, against the Beer Bill. By the Marquis of LONDONDERRY, from non-resident Freemen of Newcastle-upon-Tyne, against the Reform Bill.

COMPOSITION OF TITHES.
The Archbishop of Canterburysaid, that, in consequence of a request that had been made to him, by the noble and learned Lord on the Woolsack, he begged to postpone the second reading of his Bill, on the subject of the Composition of Tithes, to Thursday next.
Lord Kenyanhoped, as the postponement seemed to be made for the convenience of the noble and learned Lord on the Woolsack, and as this Bill, with another for the Commutation of Tithes, had been introduced last Session, that to-morrow would answer for the second reading, as well as Thursday, for the Bill was looked to with great interest by all the friends of the Church, who wished for the settlement of the question, and it was material that it should not receive any further delay.
The Lord Chancellorwas aware of the inconvenience of the postponement of the Bill, and he would gladly prevent it if it were in his power. Indeed, it had been too often adjourned, and as it had been before the House during the last Session, full opportunity for understanding its provisions was given to their Lordships; so that no good reason existed for any further delay, nor was it intended that any should take place. But the noble Lord was aware that a Bill on the same subject, which offered another remedy (the Commutation of Tithes) for the same alleged evil was laid on the Table by a noble Baron, not then in his place; and that noble Baron had consented, both for the general convenience, and for the better understanding of both Bills, that the debate on them should take place at the same time. Now he had not as yet seen the Bill of his noble friend, and he did not think it would be

1005
proper for him, considering his station in the House, and his position with respect to the law of the country, to go into the debate on so important a proposition as the Composition or the Commutation of Tithes, without being master of both the Bills. He would undertake to make himself master of them in the course of the night, and be prepared for the debate to-morrow, if their Lordships wished to fix it for that period. There was, however, another reason why the matter should be reserved for Thursday, and that was, that a noble and learned Lord (Earl Eldon), who had been his predecessor in office, would be unable, in consequence of a severe domestic calamity, to attend before that day. Under all the circumstances he would recommend that Thursday be appointed, and he hoped that the debate would then take place.
The Duke of Cumberlandsaid, he had seen the noble Earl (Earl Eldon) in the course of the day, who said he would be in his place on Thursday.

AFFRAY AT NEWTOWNBARRY.
Lord Farnhamgave notice, that to-morrow he would move for copies of such information as had been received by his Majesty's Government relative to the late affray of New-townbarry.
Earl Greysaid, he did not understand whether the noble Lord wanted all the information received by Government, or only a part; and if he moved for it with a view of creating a discussion on the subject, be hoped he would name some other day, as it would be personally inconvenient for him to attend to-morrow.
Lord Farnhamsaid, he hoped Wednesday would answer.
Earl Greyreminded the noble Lord that it was not customary to fix a long discussion for Wednesday.
Lord Farnhamsaid, that he would be the last person in the world to create an unnecessary discussion, or to take up their Lordships' time unadvisedly; but the misstatements that had been made on this subject had been so gross, the libels had been so scandalous, and the assertions made in other places were so devoid of truth, that he felt he should not be doing his duty if he did not call for such information as his Majesty's Government had to disclose, in order that the public mind should be disabused of the prejudice created by these misstatements and assertions. That was his object in moving for those Papers;
1006
and, though he was anxious to consult the convenience of the noble Earl, he could not defer his statement, and he hoped that Wednesday would be fixed.
Earl Greysaid, he did not know what the libels and misstatements were to which the noble Lord referred, and therefore he could say nothing about them; but if he were anxious to call the attention of the House to the subject in question, and he was not disposed to accede to any further delay, he believed the better way would be at once to name Wednesday, when he would be in his place to hear the noble Lord.

THE LORD-LIEUTENANTS' (IRELAND) BILL.
Viscount Melbournemoved, that the receiving of the report on this Bill be adjourned till Wednesday.
The Marquis of Londonderrygave notice, that he would take the opportunity of bringing up the report to reply to the personal attack which had been made on him at the close of the debate on the second reading of the Bill.
Viscount Melbournesaid, that the course pursued by the noble Marquis was most irregular, and quite contrary to all the usage of debate, and he trusted he would not violate the rules of the House.
The Marquis of Londonderrysaid, if he had not been prevented on the evening he was attacked with so much asperity by three noble Lords from then replying, by the most uncourteous conduct, he should not be compelled to make the declaration that he now did, or to avail himself of the bringing up the report to vindicate his proceedings. He certainly should enter at large into an explanation when the report was brought up.
Earl Greysaid, when the report came up it would be competent for the noble Marquis to say anything consistent with the orders of the House, he pleased; but he (Earl Grey) must confirm his noble friend's opinion that, to take the opportunity of bringing up a report of a Bill to reply to what had passed on a former debate was, of all the irregularities which ever occurred in the House, the most irregular. He only wished to declare for himself that in anything that had fallen from him on the occasion alluded to, it was not his desire to depart from that courtesy which was due from one Peer to another; but he had interfered because a practice, which had lately sprung up, was then indulged in, and

1007
which he thought at that time required especially to be checked. It might be said, that he should have risen earlier, and that he had allowed one or two noble Lords a degree of latitude of which he sought to deprive another. He had been induced to abstain from interfering, by the hope that the evil would correct itself; but when it amounted to such a height as to threaten the customary order and the due course of the proceedings of the House, he found it imperative on him to rise to order. He must again disclaim, in having' done so, any wish or intention to commit a breach of that courtesy and respect which were due to the noble Lord, as well as to their Lordships generally. He hoped what he said would be sufficient to justify himself, and he waited for what the noble Lord might think proper to do, certain that he need not anticipate anything inconsistent with the usual course of their Lordships' proceedings.
The Marquis of Londonderrycomplained that, though three speeches had been made against him on the night referred to, he was not permitted to reply to them, He only desired to rebut those accusations, and he was sure the noble Earl could not disapprove of his so doing, as the noble Karl would be the last man in the House to listen to a personal attack without attempting to disprove it, and he was anxious to shew that the observations of a noble and learned Lord did not apply to him.
Lord Plunkettfeared, in consequence of the noble Marquis having had the conrtesy to make a communication to him in the course of the day, that he was the person to whom the noble Lord especially alluded. He should be the last person in the House to say anything which he did not wish to have replied to, and he saw no reason why the noble Marquis should not now relieve his feelings, and set himself right with the House. He, for one, would be glad to hear any statement the noble Lord had to make, and if any irregularity had been committed by him, he should wish that it might be set right. If he had been wrong, he should be most ready to acknowledge the error. He, therefore, thought the sooner the matter was set at rest the better it would be.
The Marquis of Londonderrysaid he believed the error arose altogether from a misconception of the noble and learned Lord's.
The report to be received the next day.