Lords Sitting of 13 December 1831

MINUTES.
Bills. Read a first time; for encouraging and employing Agricultural Labourers; to diminish the expenses of Commissions de lunatico inquirendo.

REFORM.
The Earl of Coventrypresented a Petition from the Noblemen, Gentry, Clergy, and Freeholders of the county of Worcester. The petition was signed by several noblemen, and by persons of the greatest wealth and respectability in the county. The petitioners, after expressing their approbation of their Lordships' conduct on a late occasion, prayed that House to pass no Reform Bill which had not for its object the preservation of the constitution in Church and State. The petition was not confined to the higher and aristocratical classes. It had been submitted for signature to the middle classes, and he was happy to say, that there was attached to it the names of many honest and industrious freeholders and tradesmen, who possessed property and wished to maintain it. These respectable persons fully concurred with those of higher rank, and were anxious to attach their names to a petition which called upon their Lordships for such a measure of conciliation as would promote the stability of the Constitution, and the safety and security of the country. He hoped their Lordships would follow this advice, and adopt a measure of conciliation, as due to themselves on both sides of the House, and such as would ensure the well-being of the whole community. He would remind them of the fable in Æsop, where, during the quarrel of two claimants to a property, the property itself was abstracted by a looker-on of the dispute; and he hoped, when the Reform Bill came before the House, it would be such as would admit of a general union of sentiments.
Petition laid on the Table.

BRITISH FACTORY AT CANTON.
Lord Ellenborough Lord Ellenborough rose to move for copies of all correspondence between our factory at Canton and the East-India Company, relative to existing differences between the factory and the local authorities of Canton. He was aware, that their Lordships were indisposed at the present moment to attend to any thing but what was immediately passing around them, but he was induced to bring the subject under their Lordships' notice, on account of its great importance. It might, however, be as well to state to their Lordships, that some alterations had
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taken place with regard to the question he was now about to submit to them; but these alterations he did not consider of sufficient importance to induce him to forego his intention of submitting a motion for the production of the papers he required. It appeared that, on the 20th of May last, a notice was issued by the Select Committee of the factory at Canton, proclaiming that there would be an entire suspension of commercial intercourse on the following 1st of August, on account of aggressions which the Select Committee stated had been made on British commerce, and the notice concluded by appealing for support to the Court of Directors and the British Government. This was the latest information that had been obtained when he had determined to move for the production of the necessary documents to elucidate this case; but he had since been informed, that subsequently to the publication of this notice, another was issued, on the 10th of June, by which the former notice was withdrawn, and a declaration made, that commerce was to be carried on as usual. The reason given by the Select Committee for withdrawing the notice of the 20th of May was, that the conduct of the local authorities, which in their opinion, justified the suspension of trade, had been approved of by the emperor of China. The Select Committee, therefore, no longer insisted on the suspension, thinking it better to wait for the result of the references which they had made to the Court of Directors and his Majesty's Government. The Select Committee, however, recommended to all British residents to exert every means to recover such property belonging to them as was at present in possession of the natives. It was quite impossible to look at these two papers, without being satisfied that British interests in Canton were placed in great peril by the persons who conducted our affairs there. He also understood, that the Select Committee had called on the Government at home to support their demands by armed interference; but he trusted that, before his Majesty's Government consented to adopt any such proceeding, it would look calmly and deliberately at all the circumstances of the case, and be fully convinced that the cause was a just one. As far as he was at present able to judge, he did not think that armed interference in support of the pretensions of the Select Committee would either be just or adviseable. Probably their Lordships were not aware that the Chinese authorities had in November,

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1829, and May, 1830, relaxed, to a considerable extent, he believed one-third, the duties previously laid on British shipping entering the river of Canton. This he understood was a very important concession, and to this was attached the privilege of addressing such authorities in the Chinese language. Notwithstanding this temperate conduct of the Chinese authorities, on the main principles of the intercourse between the two countries, yet they had thought proper to require, by a notice served upon the Select Committee, that certain regulations should be enforced with regard to the native servants of the factory, and the manner in which Europeans should be carried about the town. Availing themselves of these regulations as a pretence for finding fault, certain merchants at Canton addressed, on the 16th or 18th of October, last year, a paper to the President of the Select Committee, couched in very intemperate language, in which they required, that certain restrictions imposed by the Chinese on the proceedings of foreigners should be removed. Those restrictions might be very absurd, but they were all imposed by the law of the country, and it appeared to him to be the duty of merchants to submit themselves to the regulations of the land in which they desired to carry on trade. This intemperate remonstrance, however, was laid before the Chinese authorities, and brought forth a reply from them not couched, certainly, in such strong language as might have been expected, in which they asserted, and even cited authorities to prove the fact, that the regulations of which the merchants complained were not of a new character, but had been in force as far back as 1769. In conclusion, this reply declared, that if the persons in question were not inclined to submit to the regulations of the country they had better not come to Canton to trade at all. In this emergency what was the conduct of the factory? Not satisfied with the insult they had given to the Chinese authorities, by the remonstrance, they proceeded further, and for the purpose as they said of procuring the removal of these regulations, an armed force of 150 men was sent to the factory of Canton. Were these men to assist the factory in resisting, if the Committee thought it necessary, the orders issued by the native authorities? Was not such conduct on the side of the British residents sufficient to inflame the Chinese government, yet its course had been marked by forbearance and temperance. An order
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was published immediately after the landing of the armed force warning the residents of the consequences likely to ensue from that measure; but instead of having the effect intended, this forbearance only seemed to urge the merchants to further insults. In a newspaper published at Canton, credit was actually taken for having, by the presence of this armed body, deterred the Chinese from carrying those regulations into effect. The only paper originally printed at Canton was the Price Current; but at no distant period a political paper was published, treating not only of European matters, but also alluding in the most disrespectful terms to the whole conduct of the Government of the Chinese empire, and calling on the British and other Governments to protect, by armed interference, the interest of the merchants at Canton. This publication was regularly translated and forwarded to the Court of Pekin. In December last year a petition was got up in Canton for the purpose of being presented to the British House of Commons. That petition was published at Canton, and it spoke of the Government of China as being most oppressive, corrupt, and venal. It then stated, that the present moment was particularly favourable to obtain advantages over China, because our Indian frontier had considerably approximated to that of China, from the successes we had obtained by the result of the Burmese War, thereby manifestly suggesting that this country should without delay invade China. The petitioners, too, in the event of their suggestions being rejected, proceeded to advocate the propriety of overawing the Chinese by other means, and conjured the British Government to take possession of some island in the neighbourhood of Canton, to convert it into a naval station, and by such effectual means protect the interests of the merchants. From these proceedings was it not to be expected that the Chinese Government, considering the factory as the servant of a powerful neighbouring State should calculate upon an immediate appeal to arms? Still, however, under all these repeated provocations, it continued to give proofs of forbearance, and evinced a disposition to make reasonable compliances. At length, however, finding all endeavours ineffectual, the local authorities seized upon the factory, and kept it in their possession for some time. With this exception he did not consider the British merchants had any reason whatever to complain. As to the story of the

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Chinese having treated the picture of our King with indignity, he did not know whether there was any truth in the report, but if they had done so, their conduct, under other circumstances would certainly have required explanation, and this country might have demanded satisfaction. Such was the detail of the circumstances connected with these transactions. He thought that he need not attempt to impress upon their Lordships the importance of the trade which was now placed in great peril by such conduct; but he could scarcely conceive any thing calculated to produce greater mischief than the continuance of the existing differences. By their continuance the revenue would lose 3,500,000 l. annually arising from the tax on tea; the East-India Company would be placed in a state of incapacity to pay the dividends of the proprietors, the interest of the bond debt, or provide any of those payments which it was necessary for them to make. There would also be a suspension of that great demand which at present existed in the Chinese market for British manufactures; and there would be almost an entire stoppage of trade in the eastern islands, because that and the Chinese trade were so intimately connected, that one could not exist without the other. The revenue derived from the trade in opium to our Indian Government, consisting of something more than a million, would be lost, and very extensive distress would, he had no doubt, be occasioned. A consciousness of the evils which must arise, even from a temporary suspension of the trade at Canton, had induced him to move for copies of all correspondence which had taken place on the subject, in order to learn the view which had been taken of the matter by the Government at home. The course which he thought the Government at home ought to pursue was, so far from complying with the request made for armed interference, to issue orders, directing the British merchants to obey the laws of the country in which they resided. He was quite satisfied that the Directors of the East-India Company would visit with their severe displeasure the persons at the head of the factory, who had been the cause of all the existing inconveniences; and would not only command them to disconnect themselves from any publication which attempted to excite the hostility of other Governments against the Chinese, but would use all their influence to prevent the promulgation of opinions which, if human nature
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was the same in China as in all other places, could not but provoke the enmity of the local authorities. In conclusion, he begged to move for copies of, or extracts from, all the correspondence between the factory at Canton, and the Court of Directors of the East-India Company, relating to the last differences between the factory and the authorities at Canton.
Earl Greyadmitted the importance of the case which had been brought under the notice of the House by the noble Lord; but in proportion as it was important, and might produce consequences the most dangerous to the commercial and financial interests, both of the East-India Company and the empire at large, it was the more necessary to proceed with caution. There was no objection on the part of the Government, and none, he was persuaded, on the part of the East-India Company, at the proper time, to produce any information necessary to put their Lordships in full possession of all the circumstances of this important case; but the information was not yet in such a state as to make it expedient to lay it on the Table of that House. Their Lordships were aware, though the general concerns of the East-India Company were under the superintendence of the Board of Control, our intercourse with China was more especially under the direction of the East-India Company; and he was informed that the latest information received, with respect to this case, had only recently arrived, and had not yet been laid before the Court of Directors. He therefore trusted, that the noble Lord would not press for the papers which he had moved for. With respect to the conduct which the noble Lord thought ought to be pursued on the occasion, he trusted and believed, that there was no disposition on the part of the Directors of the East-India Company to interfere, more especially by an armed force, in any matter when they were not convinced of the necessity and justice of such interference. He was at least certain, that the Government would not consent to exert the power of the country to support any cause which was not founded in justice. Not being in possession of information on this subject, he could not say whether any statements could be made on the other side, contradictory of the representations of the noble Lord; but he was ready to admit, according to the noble Lord's statement, that it did appear, that the factory at Canton had displayed a great deal of improper con-

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duct. He begged, however, to be understood as giving no opinion on this point, not being, as he before stated, in possession of the necessary information. Whether the course pointed out by the noble Lord would be the most proper to be pursued, was for the consideration of the Directors of the East-India Company, and his Majesty's Government; but the noble Lord might be assured, that any application for an armed force, if such application should ever be made, would be considered, not only with the greatest calmness, but with the greatest unwillingness to grant it, unless the justice and necessity of so doing should plainly appear.
Lord Ellenboroughadmitted it was quite true, as the noble Earl had stated, that the Board of Control possessed little influence over the commercial affairs of the East-India Company in reference to China. In point of fact, if the Board did possess any right to interfere, it was never exercised; and that was one great reason for his having troubled their Lordships with his present Motion, as it appeared to hold out the only means which he could command to direct attention to the recent events at Canton—events which he very strongly regretted. Having attained this object, he would not, under the circumstances alluded to by the noble Earl, press his Motion; and, therefore, with leave of their Lordships, he would withdraw it.
Motion withdrawn.