Lords Sitting of 25 November 1830

MINUTES.
Petitions presented. For the abolition of Negro Slavery, from various parts of the country, by the Earls of HARDWICKE, HADDINGTON, SPENCER, RODEN, and CARNARVON, by the Lords WHARNCLIFFE and DURHAM, and by the Archbishop of YORK, and the Bishop of DURHAM. For the Repeal of the Duty on East-India Sugar, by the Earl of RODEN, from Wexford.
NEW POLICE.
Lord Durhampresented two Petitions, one from the parish of St. Leonard, Shoreditch, signed by 4,000 persons, and the other from the parish of St. John,Southwark, against the Metropolitan Police Act The petitioners, he said, called for the abolition of the force called into existence by that Act. After what he had said on a former night on this subject, it was scarcely necessary for him to say that he did not concur with the petitioners in calling for the abolition of the force. At the same time he thought that an inquiry ought to be granted into the subject.

REFORM IN PARLIAMENT.
Lord Kingrose to present a Petition from the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Corporation of the City of London, in Common
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Council assembled, praying for a Reform in Parliament. He presented this petition with great pleasure, as he had long been a friend of reform; and he presented it now with greater satisfaction than he could have done had he presented it ten days ago, when it first came into his hands: because then there presided over the country a Ministry, which had declared by its chief in that very House, that he had no plan of reform to bring forward himself, and that, if any other person brought forward a plan, he would always oppose it while he remained in office. After such a declaration, he should have felt that the presentation of this petition, so far as regarded the fulfillment of its prayer, was a hopeless task. He presented it, however, to their Lordships now, after the gratifying declaration which had been made on a recent evening by his noble friend opposite, with a strong confidence that it would meet with a more satisfactory reception. He would take that opportunity of observing, that the declaration of his noble friend was satisfactory to him, as he hoped it would be to all reasonable persons. They could look for nothing more than that the plan of his noble friend should give satisfaction to the country, and restore the confidence of the people in the Commons House of Parliament. That was as much as could be expected from his noble friend in any declaration of general principles. He had no doubt that his noble friend would follow up his declaration in the most proper and advantageous manner. That there were defects and blots in the representation of the people in the House of Commons, was a point that no man could deny. The defects were, that the great towns, which had grown into importance during the last two centuries, or rather during the last century, were not represented; the blots were to be found in the existence of what were generally denominated the nomination boroughs. It was notorious that a scandalous traffic had long existed of votes for patronage. Those whom Mr. Grattan had well described as the proprietors of Parliament had too long enjoyed a monopoly of patronage. He firmly believed that no plan of reform would give satisfaction to the country which did not put an end to the nomination boroughs, which were now used only for the detriment and oppression of the people. It was owing to the influence exercised over

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Ministers in the Commons House of Parliament by those proprietors of Parliament, that the country had been burthened so long with the most expensive, the most extravagant, and the most profuse Government that the world had ever seen. As to the other object which his noble friend had expressed his desire to accomplish,—namely, cheap Government,—he would only say that it was his firm conviction that an unsparing retrenchment could not be carried into effect without a reform in Parliament. The petitioners prayed, he said, for such a reform as would restore to the House of Commons that control over the taxation of the country which it had formerly possessed, and which it ought always to exercise The greatest and best argument in favour of Reform was, that the House of Commons had not exercised that control for years; and to him the want of reform appeared clearly proved by the fact, that those reductions which might have been made, and which therefore ought to have been made, fifteen years ago, were only made within the last year or two, when the demand for them became so strong that it could not be resisted. As this petition came from so respectable a body, and as its statements were very short, he begged that it might be read at the Table by the clerk.
The Petition read.
Lord Kingpresented a Petition from the Burgh of Brechin, praying for a reform in the representation of Scotland. He would only call the attention of their Lordships to one fact contained in this petition, and that was that the forty-five Members for Scotland were elected by 3,000 persons.

REGENCY BILL.
Lord Lyndhurstgave notice, that he should move the second reading of this Bill to-morrow, and then requested that their Lordships should be summoned for that day. He said that he gave this short notice of his intention to bring on the second reading of this Bill to-morrow, on the assumption that no opposition would be made to its principle. From what had occurred on the night when he brought in this Bill, he did not anticipate any objection to the principle of the Bill. Any alteration that might appear necessary in the details of it, could be best made when the Bill was in Committee.
Earl Greyrose to confirm his noble friend in the assumption which he had just
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made. He was not opposed to the principle of the Bill; on the contrary, he approved of it: indeed, it was impossible for him to do otherwise, for the noble Lord had stated the very same principles for which he had always contended when the Regency had been made a subject of public difference and discussion. To the principle of the Bill, he repeated, he had no objection; the details were, as his noble friend had said, the proper subject for consideration in the committee.