Lords Sitting of 4 February 1830

THE LORDS COMMISSIONERS SPEECH ON OPENING THE SESSION.
The Fourth Session of the Eighth Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland was this day opened by Commission. The Lords Commissioners were the Lord Chancellor (LYNDHURST); the Lord President of the Council (BATHURST); the Lord Privy Seal (ROSSLYN); the First Lord of the Treasury (WELLINGTON); and the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, (ABERDEEN). Mr. Pulman, acting for Mr. Quarme the Yeoman Usher of the Black Rod, summoned the attendance of the Commons; and the Speaker, attended by numerous Members, appearing at their lordships' bar, (the Commission for opening the Parliament having been read) the Lord Chancellor delivered the Speech of the Lords Commissioners to both Houses of Parliament, which was as follows:—
My Lords, and Gentlemen,
We are commanded by His Majesty to inform you, that His Majesty receives from all Foreign Powers the strongest Assurances of their Desire to maintain and cultivate the most friendly Relations with this Country.
His Majesty has seen with Satisfaction that the War between Russia and the Ottoman Porte has been brought to a Conclusion. The Efforts of His Majesty to accomplish the main Objects of the Treaty of the 6th July 1827 have been unremitted.
His Majesty, having recently concerted with His Allies Measures for the Pacification and final Settlement of Greece, trusts that He shall be enabled, at an early Period, to communicate to you the Particulars of this Arrangement, with such Information as may explain the Course which His Majesty has pursued throughout the Progress of these important Transactions.
His Majesty laments that He is unable to announce to you the Prospect of a Reconciliation between the Princes of the House of Braganza.
His Majesty has not yet deemed it expedient to re-establish, upon their ancient Footing, His Majesty's Diplomatic Relations with the Kingdom of Portugal; but the numerous Embarrassments arising from the continued Interruption of these Relations increase His Majesty's Desire to effect the Termination of so serious an Evil.
Gentlemen of the House of Commons,
His Majesty has directed the Estimates for the current Year to be laid before you. They have been framed with every Attention to Economy, and it will be satisfactory to you to learn that His Majesty will be enabled to propose a considerable Reduction in the Amount of the Public Expenditure, without impairing the Efficiency of our Naval or Military Establishments.
We are commanded by His Majesty to inform you, that although the National Income during the last Year has not attained the full Amount at which it had been estimated, the Diminution is not such as to cause any Doubt as to the future Prosperity of the Revenue.
My Lords, and Gentlemen,
His Majesty commands us to acquaint you, that His Attention has been of late earnestly directed to various important Considerations connected with Improvements in the general Administration of the Law.
His Majesty has directed that Measures shall be submitted for your Deliberation, of which some are calculated, in the Opinion of His Majesty, to facilitate and expedite the Course of Justice in different Parts of the United Kingdom, and others appear to be necessary Preliminaries to a Revision of the Practice and Proceedings of the Superior Courts.
We are commanded to assure you, that His Majesty feels confident that you will give your best Attention and Assistance to Subjects of such deep and lasting Concern to the Well-being of His People.
His Majesty commands us to inform you, that the Export in the last Year of British Produce and Manufactures has exceeded that of any former Year.
His Majesty laments that, notwithstanding this Indication of active Commerce, Distress should prevail among the Agricultural and Manufacturing Classes in some Parts of the United Kingdom.
It would be most gratifying to the paternal Feelings of His Majesty to be enabled to propose for your Consideration Measures calculated to remove the Difficulties of any Portion of His Subjects, and at the same Time compatible with the general and permanent Interests of His People.
It is from a deep Solicitude for those Interests, that His Majesty is impressed with the Necessity of acting with extreme Caution in reference to this important Subject.
His Majesty feels assured that you will concur with him in assigning due Weight to the Effect of unfavourable Seasons, and to the Operation of other causes which are beyond the Reach of Legislative Control or Remedy.
Above all, His Majesty is convinced that no Pressure of temporary Difficulty will induce you to relax the Determination which you have uniformly manifested to maintain inviolate the Public Credit, and thus to uphold the high Character and the permanent Welfare of the Country.
MINUTES.] The Commons afterwards withdrew. Their Lordships resumed at five o'clock.—The LORD BISHOP OF OXFORD then took the Oaths and his Seat.—Lord ARUNDELL took the Oath prescribed by the 10th Geo. 4th. to be taken by Peers professing the Roman Catholic Religion.—The Certificate of the Return of the Earl of GLENGALL as a Peer for Ireland, in the room of the Earl of Blessinton, deceased, was read.—The Select Vestries Bill was brought in and read the first time pro formâ:— the Bill was introduced by the Duke of WELLINGTON.

ADDRESS ON THE LORDS COMMISSIONERS SPEECH.
This Speech having been again read, first by the Lord Chancellor, and then by the Clerk at the Table,
The Duke of Buccleughrose:—
My Lords;—In rising to move that a humble Address be presented to his Majesty, in answer to the most gracious Speech, I am not unmindful of the difficulties which I have to encounter in support of the task I have undertaken, nor of my inability to do justice to the important subjects contained in that Speech. It would be presumptuous in one so young and inexperienced as I am, and who have

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had the honour of a seat in your House for so short a period, to venture to give opinions at length, or to enter into a discussion on the various topics contained in his Majesty's Speech. I shall, therefore, confine myself to such few observations and reasons as may occur to me, claiming, at the same time, the indulgence of your lordships, feeling that it was never more necessary, nor more unfeignedly requested than on the present occasion, [hear] My lords, the strong assurances which his Majesty has been pleased to inform us he still continues to receive from the different states of Europe, of their anxiety to maintain and cultivate the relations of peace with this country, must be a subject of congratulation, as it holds out to us the prospect that peace will be lasting. This nation is too much involved in the general interests of Europe not to view with satisfaction the intelligence that peace has been established between Russia and the Ottoman Porte; therefore, it is most satisfactory to learn that the warfare between these two neighbouring states which had so long existed, is happily terminated, for who could contemplate the conflict carried on without fearing that the ravages of war might be extended to other states of Europe? We cannot but hear, my lords, with satisfaction, of his Majesty's unremitting offices with his allies to carry into effect the Treaty of July 6th, 1827. I trust that your lordships will think with me, that this is not the period to enter into the details on that topic of the Speech, but that you will wait until his Majesty shall make those disclosures respecting the measures carried on with his allies as regards the situation of Greece. The measures are of great importance, as putting an end to warfare and bloodshed, and as tending to raise up a people who have been so long plunged into misery and ruin, and to give to them a station which they have not enjoyed among the nations of Europe.—With regard to Portugal, my lords, it is impossible that we can view with indifference the proceedings there going forward, considering how long have been our peculiarly friendly relations with that country. Those friendly relations must continue to be interesting to a country which for so long a period of time has been our ally. I trust that his Majesty's exertions will effect a reconciliation between the two branches of the House of Braganza, and that the diplomatic rela-
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tions which have been so long interrupted between the two countries may be again established. One of the most important questions which will come before your lordships is the revision of the Courts of Law—with a view of expediting and facilitating the course of justice in different parts of the United Kingdom. Every one of your lordships, I am sure, will agree in the proposition, that it is expedient that some alteration should be made in the administration of justice. I feel convinced of the necessity of such a proceeding, more particularly as respects the country with which I am more immediately connected. [hear, hear] I am sure a vast advantage will arise from expediting the course of justice, which while it allows the law to be faithfully executed, shall shorten the tedious process of a lawsuit. Revision will be advantageous by which obsolete laws shall be abolished, and those which are unsuitable to the present condition of society shall be better adapted to its wants. [hear, hear] No one, my lords, can be ignorant of, nor view with indifference, the unparalleled distress under which the agricultural and manufacturing classes are at present labouring in many parts of the country. I am not disposed to consider that the distresses now felt are so desperate, or so universal, as some have represented, or as other persons would wish to have it believed; nor do I think they will continue, or that there is reason to despond. Despondency ought not to be encouraged or excited. But this is a subject of vast importance for your lordships to consider, and one which, requires great judgment and caution in your deliberations, but upon which I will not now enter. I would fain hope, my lords, that it is only a temporary distress which is felt, and that it will be alleviated and removed. In the consideration of this subject, we must give due weight to the two late unfavourable seasons which the agriculturists have experienced. To the many difficulties with which they have had to contend, must be added the expending of their capital in getting in the harvest, which, when secured, proved so indifferent. I will not, however, enter into any detail; it is a subject of too vast importance to be discussed now, and one upon which I do not feel capable of entering. But, my lords, although there is distress among the agriculturists and the manufacturers in parts of the country, have

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we not a subject of congratulation in the fact mentioned in his Majesty's most gracious Speech, that the export of British produce and manufactures during the last year has exceeded that of any former year? This, is surely a subject of congratulation, and I think warrants me in the conclusion to which I have come, that the evils complained of are not deep rooted. Your lordships are not ignorant that we have now the manufacturers of other countries to contend against. Formerly this was the only nation where manufactures were extensively carried on; now every nation is turning its attention to manufactures. We have, therefore, to compete with foreign markets in our manufactured articles, and this has lowered the profits of our manufacturers. My lords, I trust that whenever any measure shall be brought forward in this House connected with this subject, your lordships will avoid any thing that may tend to show the people that we entertain apprehensions on the subject. My lords, the population of this country will naturally look to your lordships for example—and, therefore, when the discussion is brought forward, it should be our endeavour to encourage the people rather than dishearten them— to persuade them to cherish the expectation of their distresses being removed, rather than induce them to suppose that they are—which they assuredly are not— permanent. But whenever the expected measure, whatever it may be, shall be brought forward, I trust that we shall see nothing advanced which may cause to the public creditor any hazard of his property. The country has maintained its high character in times of greater difficulty than the present. We are now at peace. I am persuaded that the distress felt is of a temporary description. I have, my lords, particularly avoided entering into the details connected with this important subject; but before I conclude, I trust I may be permitted to express a hope that when it is brought before your lordships in a regular way, you will pay it your undivided attention, and not make it the subject of daily conversation which can produce no beneficial results, and may contribute to alarm the people and increase and exaggerate the real evils. The noble duke concluded with moving the Address, which will be found at p. 121, together with his Majesty's most gracious Answer.
Lord Saltounseconded the Address.
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He said, in doing so, I must state that I unfeignedly agree in all the arguments adduced by the noble duke to induce your lordships to go along with him. It must be particularly gratifying to your lordships to find that the state of peace continues, which has now lasted for a longer period than this country has formerly enjoyed, and which promises, from the confidence reposed in our government by other governments, to be lasting. With respect to the termination of the war in the East, though it did not directly interfere with the interest of England, it was thought advantageous for the future peace of Europe that Turkey should be maintained. What arguments may have been used to prevent us from entering into war, I am not aware; but it must be evident to every man acquainted with the power of the two parties, that no other result, except one more disastrous, could have been anticipated. Turkey, however, has now been spared, and that power may have time to revive and improve its advantages. As to the Treaty of July 6th, I shall take no notice of that, as the measures relating to it will be submitted to your lordships hereafter. It must be a matter of regret to your lordships that our diplomatic relations with Portugal should have been so long suspended. Our commerce is hence cramped and fettered by the want of those forms which give facility to communication between governments. It has not been in our power, however, to avoid this interruption. With respect to the right of the two parties, I have no doubt that, in law, the eldest branch has the right to the throne; but the Portuguese nation have thought proper to adopt the younger branch, and it is consistent neither with the policy nor the interest of this country to interfere with any nation, and make it choose what ruler we please. I trust, however that the interruption will not be of much longer duration, and that before long the diplomatic relations will be restored to the same state as formerly existed between the two countries. The next subject mentioned in his Majesty's Speech is addressed to the House of Commons, and it must be satisfactory to the country to hear that, at the same time that the expenditure of the country is to be diminished, the efficiency of the naval and military forces is not to be impaired. His Majesty's Speech informs us, too, my lords, that the state of the administration of justice is to

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be revised. I, for one, am too little acquainted with the subject to enter into details; but I must say, that if the measures for altering the law, particularly as far as the country I represent is concerned, shall make its operation more expeditious, and not prevent substantial justice being done, and shall also assist in fixing the law, they will be a great advantage to the country. The distresses of parts of the country I deeply regret, although I look on them as but of a temporary nature. No doubt, very great distress exists now, and has existed for some time past, among the manufacturers and agriculturists in many parts of the country. Whatever may be the causes of that distress, it has been of too long duration to be wholly attributable to the currency; several other causes have contributed to promote that distress. Some persons have said that it was over-production; others that it was the change of the currency; and others have stated different causes, and proposed different remedies. Looking at the whole question, I cannot say that any one cause in particular has brought it about, or that any remedy yet proposed will remove it. In the first place, it arises from the change which has taken place from obtaining large profit on small ventures, to gat ting only small profits on large transactions. In other words, my lords, during the war the whole trade and manufactures of the world were thrown into our hands, and we supplied the whole continent with all the colonial product it received; we not only carried goods and manufactures then for all the world, but were also able to sell our manufactures at our own price, for there was no opposition. When the peace came, our machinery was adopted in other countries. Other manufacturers came into the market, prices were lowered, and our people could not make the same profit on the same outlay. If a manufacturer were now obliged to make one hundred bales of goods to realize the same profit as he formerly obtained on sixty bales, he must be so much worse off, and could not afford to pay his workmen the same rate of wages; that brought on the manufacturers' distress. The manufacturers not being so well paid as they were formerly, could not give the same prices for agricultural produce, and could not consume so much of it, and this is the source of the distress of the agriculturists. That distress was felt formerly as well as now—it was felt in
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1819 and 1820, and before any change had taken place in the currency. Respecting the currency, however, I must say that the change has so long existed, that all the mischief that it can do it has done; but no change in the situation of the country which has taken place can be wholly attributed to the existing law. In Scotland, where no change had taken place, and where the banks were not fettered, there was some distress. There was a time, I know, when some alarm was felt that the alteration in the banking system would be extended to Scotland, and then the banks limited their issues. Now, however, that alarm has passed away, and the banks issue their notes to the same extent as before; and accommodation can be obtained in that country to as great an extent as ever. I regret very much the distress of the agriculturists; for I have no other property than land. I shall certainly be ready to give my best attentions to any measures which may come before your lordships relating to this subject. I will not detain your lordships—I do not intend, I never did intend to trespass at length on your lordships, and I shall now conclude by seconding the Address.
Earl Stanhopesaid:—My Lords, I should consider it a base dereliction of my duty not to take this, the earliest, opportunity, of stating my opinion to your lordships. Under a state of difficulty and distress, universal in extent, and unequalled in intensity, it behoves your lordships to address the Throne, not in the language of compliment, but of truth; discharging with decision and firmness our duty to our country, for the benefit of which we have received political power. I am never disposed to treat any of the speeches from the Throne with disrespect, but I must speak plainly of this. A speech, I must say, more inept and more inappropriate was never delivered from the Throne. In the country there was unusual distress, universal in its extent, unprecedented in its degree, intolerable in its pressure. After congratulating Parliament upon the close of the war in Turkey, we are informed that distress prevails amongst the agricultural and manufacturing classes in "some" parts of the United Kingdom. Surely it would have been much more correct for his Majesty to have told us that unexampled distress prevails in every class, and every interest J [hear] When the Speech informs us

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that distress prevails in some parts of the country, and among some classes of the community—the people at large would be most grateful to the noble duke, or to any other noble lord who will point out that terra incognita in which distress does not prevail, [hear, hear] Then we are warned that we should proceed with extreme caution; and what, let me ask, is the plain English of this warning? It means nothing more nor less than this—"You, the people of England, manufacturers as well as agriculturists, are in a state of great suffering, but use extreme caution, and take great care that you do not get out of it." [cheers] This is as much as to tell a man who has fallen into a deep river, and is likely to be drowned, "take great care you do not, in attempting to get out, make your situation worse." To me the danger seems most imminent; and we are so far removed from a situation to which such language can be applicable, that it is our bounden duty, as we are now nearly destroyed, to take care that our interests are not quite annihilated. Neither can I. derive any consolation from the opinion, or hope, expressed by the noble duke who moved the Address, that the distress is only temporary. That source of consolation has been often open to us, and has as repeatedly been disappointed by the event. We were heretofore told in metaphorical language that the light clouds that cast a temporary shade will soon pass away; and that the sun will again break forth in all his wonted splendour! Instead of passing away, we have seen the sky thicken and blacken, and we have waited in vain for the return of promised sunshine. No man who really knows the situation of the country can contemplate it without dismay. The noble duke says "Do not excite feelings of despondency." I am not apt to despond—it is not the character or temper of my mind—but I do say that my feelings will and must be those of utter despondency if a remedy be not speedily discovered and administered. The language of the Speech appears to be the more extraordinary and the less excusable, because the noble duke at the head of his Majesty's Treasury must be well acquainted with the true condition of the country. He must be acquainted, not only with the particular pressure, but with the general existence of that distress which is described in such feeble terms in the Speech from the Throne, The noble
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duke has travelled much in the course of the last summer, and though he has visited various parts of the country for a different purpose, yet I still may venture to hope that he was not without a disposition to gain information on the state and condition of the people. He must, therefore, know from his own experience, the universality as well as the severity of the distress. He must know it, too, from the county meetings lately held in different parts of the kingdom; although, on a former occasion, the noble duke was pleased to call the proceedings of county meetings "a farce." [hear, hear] I will not stay to inquire whether the proceedings of any other assembly, at no great distance from this place, are much more enlightened or may hot betterment the application of that term, [cheers, and a laugh] The noble duke must also know the extent and weight of the distress from the remonstrances presented from grand juries in different quarters of the country. He must know it from the representations of other kinds, poured in upon government; and yet in the Speech I see no hope of relief— no promise even that the sufferings of the people shall receive the consolation of inquiry. I regret this circumstance most deeply, for the sake of the inhabitants of this unhappy and ill-governed country. I regret it also for the sake of the noble duke himself, for whom, as far as regards his former career, I can, in common with the rest of my countrymen, entertain no other sentiments than those of admiration and gratitude. But that noble duke, who was then placed on a pinnacle of glory which no man before had attained, and who had acquired a reputation never equalled by any man in the annals of our history, save the great Marlborough, had every thing to lose and nothing to gain by becoming prime minister. And what new laurels has he gained? He found the vessel of the state surrounded by rocks and quick sands, and yet he consented to steer the very same course which had been so ruinously pursued by his predecessors at the helm. He persevered in the same system, and adopted the same errors which had occasioned all our difficulties and dangers, which were now universally felt, and were the subject of such general complaint. He has adopted all the errors and followed all the mistakes of his predecessors. What new laurels, I repeat then, has he gained? Where, let me ask, is the

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glory of acting, not as the head and chief of an independent administration, but as the mere deputy of the administration he succeeded? He may reply, "I am the minister who granted Catholic emancipation:" it is not my intention now to enter into this topic—I have no wish to resuscitate the animosities of the debates which took place upon it; let them be considered dead and buried, but still I must remind your lordships that that measure was unwillingly extorted from the noble duke by the menaces, denunciations, and intimidations of the Roman Catholic board, [hear, hear] If we contemplate the distresses of the country, we shall find them not limited to agriculture alone, which the noble duke justly considers the most secure basis of national prosperity and power: we shall find that it extends itself also to the manufacturing interests, and that the trade and commerce of the kingdom are proportionably suffering. Does not this state of things then imperiously demand immediate investigation? If I do not on this occasion minutely enter into the details I should otherwise be desirous of furnishing, it is solely because it will be my duty, in the course of a few days, as soon as noble lords shall have arrived in town to take part in the debate, to move for a committee of the whole House to inquire into the state of the nation, as far as regards its internal condition. I shall, therefore, limit the investigation merely to our domestic situation; and I cannot suppose that the noble duke is the only man in the empire who is ignorant of the real state of the nation. And will any one deny that an inquiry is not imperiously demanded? The people have a right to know, through the medium of parliamentary investigation, whether their distresses are as partial and temporary as they are represented, or whether, as I contend, and as I shall be able on the proper occasion to prove, they are not permanent, and do not arise from mistaken legislative measures which it is necessary to repeal? We are told, in the Speech from the Throne, to assign due weight to the effect of unfavourable seasons and other causes; but what those other causes are we are only left to conjecture. As to unfavourable seasons, we know that the invariable effect of them has hitherto been to injure the producers of grain; but has it been a usual effect of unfavourable seasons to lower the price of grain [hear]. It was an absurdity without
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a parallel. Really the person who forced this notion into the royal Speech must have formed a very mean opinion of the capacities of those to whom it was to be addressed. Who, from the beginning of the world to the present day, ever heard of such a monstrous absurdity as is now attempted to be palmed upon us, for the sake of preventing inquiry, and for the sake of shutting out light as clear as that of the sun at noon-day, that bad seasons have the effect of lowering the price of corn? Why has the price of corn been lowered? It is the consequence of pernicious measures founded upon no just principle, or rather upon no principle at all. I had the honour to propose an amendment to the proposition of the noble duke on this subject, which amendment had for its object the fixing of the scale so as to afford a remunerating price to the grower. The price of grain has not fallen in consequence of unfavourable seasons, but in consequence of that cause which was so truly and forcibly stated by my noble friend, whose loss I cannot sufficiently deplore. He was one of the brightest ornaments of this House, and his virtues and talents were as a tower of strength to the country. [hear] I need not add that I allude to the late lord Redesdale, who truly described the measure of Mr. Peel as an act of wrong and robbery. [hear] But if such be the effect upon corn, is that a reason why other agricultural produce is to fall also? The absurdities upon this subject, and points connected with it, are so great, that a person gravely told me that the depression in the price of butter and cheese arose from the superabundance of grass, in consequence of the extreme wetness of the late season, [laugh] He however mentioned these facts to show how little is known of the real grievances of the country; and to illustrate to what absurd shifts they resorted who were determined to shut their eyes to the state of the country. But passing the question as to corn, did anybody ever hear of an unfavourable season lowering the price of wool? That is a part of the system I cannot too strongly reprobate, for upon that principle one portion of the community is plundered for the supposed profit of another portion. In the outset of that system the wool-grower was plundered, that some benefit might accrue to the manufacturer; and the result of the experiment has been what I always contended it would be, that while the wool-grower has

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been reduced to a state of pauperism, the manufacturer has not been benefited—by the decay of the home-market he has lost his best, surest, and most extensive customer. I also wish to know whether unfavourable seasons have, or are supposed to have, an unfavourable effect on the trade and manufactures of the country? It would be quite as rational to say that their condition is to be attributed to the present severity of the weather. The expression of unavailing regret is, however, to be checked, and the country is merely to be told that its sufferings are beyond the reach of parliamentary interference and remedy. If I thought that such was really the case, I should indeed entertain a gloomy and desponding view of the state of the country. But nevertheless the country is now rapidly approaching that condition which threatens to tear asunder all the bonds that unite human society. It is impossible to state this evil in language too strong; the result will be not only danger, but destruction, if remedy for our difficulties be not afforded. Then, I conjure your lordships, for your own honour —for the sake of the discharge of the duty the people have a right to expect from you, to examine the case with a view to the discovery of some method of relief. You were truly and eloquently told by a learned and eminent counsel at your baron a memorable occasion, that you cannot flourish, nay, that you cannot long continue to exist, if once you lose the affection and confidence of the people, that you must fade and wither like the blossoms struck from the tree. Is this the way to secure the affection and confidence of the people, or is this the way for your lordships to discharge your high and important duties? Are you to obtain the affection and confidence of the people by agreeing to an Address which, from one end of the kingdom to the other, must be received with contempt and derision, [hear] There is no part of the country which does not begin to think for itself, and to examine for itself the nature, extent, causes, and remedies for the existing evils; and to have adverted to them in the royal Speech would have been far more proper than to talk of legal inquiries. This I can call only a wilful attempt to divert the attention of parliament from the real, true, and what will soon become the intolerable, grievance of the nation. Why, otherwise, does what is said about the consideration of measures for the better administration
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of justice occupy so prominent a place in the Speech? No doubt, at the proper time, those would be important subjects of investigation; but what should we say of the wisdom of any individual, who, when his house was on fire, set to work busily to examine his banker's book? [hear] Whether the opinions of the people will be expressed in petitions to this House, or whether they will be addressed to another quarter, I know not; but if, in the course of the present session, no petitions are presented, I must thus early protest against the inference that this silence is to be considered the test of the indifference of public opinion, or the absence of all cause of complaint. Let it be recollected that the petitions of the people to this House have been treated with neglect—that it was said that they had been "got up." I wish those who dared to make this assertion would endeavour to "get up" some petitions for the continuance of the present system. Let any man in any part of the kingdom, and with reference to any interest, try to get up a petition praying that the present distresses may be continued; and let us see what will be the result? If petitions are not presented, it may arise from another cause, to which, as a member of this House, it is painful for me to advert. It will show general distrust of parliament, from the base servility it has, on different occasions, exhibited. I speak not now of one set of principles, or of another. I recollect that the late lord Liverpool, who presided over his Majesty's councils from the end of the war till 1819, pursued a system which was then considered, as I now consider it, sound in principle; and he was supported by a large majority of this House. When the same lord Liverpool subsequently departed from that sound principle as regarded currency, free trade, the navigation laws, and many other vital questions, the complaisancy of this House still gave him its support. To regain the confidence of the country you must adopt some course of inquiry which may ultimately extricate us from our present difficulties. It is mainly to save this House from the disgrace, ridicule, and scorn (for I cannot use milder terms), to which it will be exposed if it adopt the Address of the noble mover, that I shall propose an amendment, which has this recommendation—that it will neither prejudge the causes of the present distresses, nor the remedies that ought to be

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applied to them: it merely pledges parliament to institute a minute inquiry into the distresses, with a view to the amelioration of the condition of the suffering classes in all parts of the country. The terms of it will be these:—"That this House views with the deepest sorrow and anxiety the severe distress which now afflicts the country, and will immediately proceed to examine its causes, and the means of administering speedy and effectual relief." Should I be unsuccessful—as I probably may be—I shall then enter my protest against any further proceeding; and in a very short time, as soon as a sufficiently numerous attendance can be obtained, I Shall submit a motion for inquiry, not by any "select" committee of members to be named by the noble duke, but an inquiry by the whole House, into the state of the nation as regards its internal condition. That course will not preclude any noble lord, who may think proper, to bring forward any inquiry into our foreign relations. That is not my intention to do; first, because I cannot pretend to be sufficiently informed on the subject; secondly, because, though I may see much to deplore in our foreign policy, I also see much to admire in the pacific course adopted by the noble duke; thirdly, because I wish to secure the votes of those who may agree with me on the question of domestic policy, though they may be of a very different sentiment with respect to our conduct to foreign powers.
Upon the question of our internal situation I shall certainly take the sense of the House. I know not how many may vote with me; but, feeling as I do, I should think it an act of baseness not to introduce the subject, and I know that I shall be supported by some whose opinions I most reverence. It was my intention to have entered at some length into the state of the various interests of the country, and especially into the pressure produced by the alteration of the currency; a measure that has actually raised the present amount of taxes above the sum paid by the country in the last and most expensive year of the war. The noble duke seems to indicate his concurrence in this position; and if he agrees with me, let me ask how is it possible for the nation to bear that enormous and intolerable burthen of taxation, with a diminished consumption in every branch of produce, trade, and manufactures? The most convenient mode of inquiry would be
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by a committee of the whole House; and, if your lordships shall refuse it, all I can say is, that in my view you will bring upon yourselves indelible disgrace, and desert your duty in a manner which will not be forgotten, and ought not to be forgiven. You will then be justly considered unworthy to hold the station you occupy, since you neglect its most imperative duties. If you wish to turn distress into despair and disaffection—if you wish to extend through the country, not a spirit of temperate and salutary change, but the wildest and most sweeping doctrines of parliamentary reform, you cannot adopt a course more efficacious than refusing to hear the grievances of the nation, and, if possible, to apply a remedy. All the arguments in favour of parliamentary reform will thus acquire double strength, and there will be nothing to oppose them but weakness and distrust. On a future occasion I shall endeavour, in more detail, to show the manner in which the best interests of the country have been wilfully attacked and injured, by obstinate adherence to misgovernment and false principles; I therefore shall not, on the present occasion, trouble the House further than by reading the Amendment I propose. [His lordship concluded by again reading the terms of his Amendment: it was agreed, after some conversation with the Lord Chancellor, that it should commence from "United Kingdom" at the end of the tenth paragraph to the end of the Address.]
Viscount Goderichsaid:—My lords, although it is my intention to support the Address proposed by the noble duke, and to oppose the Amendment, I beg to assure the noble earl, that among the many considerations which have induced me to take that course, cannot be reckoned any insensibility to the distresses I know and feel to prevail to so great an extent, and which, were it within our power, it is clearly within our duty to redress. I feel, if I were to acquiesce in the Amendment, I should only be lending myself to a delusion. [hear] Before, however, I proceed to make any remarks upon that part of the subject to which the noble earl has so emphatically called your lordships' attention, I shall beg leave to advert to some other matters noticed in his Majesty's Speech. Although I feel, and deeply feel, that there is nothing so strongly interesting to our hearts and consciences as the condition of the country, when in a state of such un-

19
exampled distress, I cannot think that we are therefore called upon to neglect the consideration of other great questions in which the welfare of the nation is essentially involved. It would, indeed, be a great misfortune to befal the country, if, because we were suffering distresses of a very severe kind, we should shut our eyes to those great questions in which, not on account of the mere interest they excite at the present moment, but of the effect they must produce on the latest posterity, a paramount degree of importance is involved. I particularly allude to the contemplated improvement and melioration of the mode of administering justice. It would indeed be a great misfortune if we were to shut our eyes upon all the great questions which the present state of circumstances has created, merely because some of them are not connected with the internal condition of the country. These are questions which I hope your lordships will not consider of so little importance as to think that our internal distresses will justify you in passing them by in silence —I mean those which have a relation to the foreign connections of this country. With regard to that subject, the Speech expresses the satisfaction with which his Majesty views the termination of the war between Russia and the Ottoman Porte. If the words "view with satisfaction," relate solely to the pleasure his Majesty has derived from seeing the termination of a war, which was not only attended, as all wars are, with many calamities in itself, but which was likely, from the interests involved, and the parties engaged in it, sooner or later to have dragged every great power in Europe into the contest, I most heartily concur with them; but if they are intended to express a satisfactory feeling created by the mode in which the war has terminated, and the conditions that have been imposed, then I cannot concur with that portion of the Speech. [hear] I am willing to believe, that the first sense is that in which the words have been used. With respect to the mode in which that war has been terminated, I never entertained an opinion that it could come to any other end. I never conceived how any man who looked at all to the course of events in that country, in connection with those in other European States, could fail to see, that for the last hundred and thirty years the power of the Turk has dwindled, every day, whilst the
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power of those states, which would be the most likely to contend in warfare against him, have been progressively and naturally increasing. The principles of his government and of his faith make it impossible for him to advance with the advance of others; they were those of a blind, prejudiced, stupid, fanatic; while those powers, whose fear before restrained them, but whose cupidity is now awakened by the hope of deriving benefit from his weakness, have been making a daily progress in those arts which at first render a country independent of, and afterwards superior to, her less civilized neighbours. This has been strongly exemplified with respect to Turkey. There has not been a single war in which the Turk has engaged within the last hundred and thirty years without coming out of it somewhat shorn of his previous strength. I was, from the first, perfectly convinced that nothing could save him from the consequences of his conduct in the approaching war but a combination of the other powers—a coalition that he should never have counselled. I know that my opinion was one which was by no means general. Great pains were taken to propagate others; a directly contrary opinion was indeed ardently diffused by some persons—we were told that orders had been given to the Pacha to collect troops. God knows how many troops were to be brought together from one quarter or another; and it was said that the defeat of the invader was certain. I believe that that opinion was generally entertained in this country. The Pacha received orders to collect troops no doubt, but there were no troops to collect, and he was engaged in an unsuccessful attempt to obtain the means of resisting a most formidable aggression—a fact which was not noticed in this country, but which was one of a most important nature. And then, as to the Sultan, we were told indeed a great deal as to his energy and vigour, but I confess I never could discover any signs of energy or vigour, even in that act of his life which has been the subject of so much admiration. I saw nothing in it, on the one hand, but a cold and reckless indifference to human life when a favourite object was in view — the destruction of eight or ten or twelve thousand men being considered as nothing; and on the other, a hasty determination to do a certain act without at all providing for its consequences. For when he had succeeded in

21
destroying the praetorian bands which menaced his security, and held the despot in their hands, he took no measures to secure another military body for the guard of his empire in their place. I therefore say, that I considered that act as anything but one of vigour, courage, or wisdom; and I felt sure, that in consequence of it, he must, when he was attacked, consent to an unconditional submission. I believe the Sultan was misled—I believe that great pains were taken by a certain individual to induce him to act as he did both towards Russia and Greece. Such individual, it is true, has been since disowned by his government, but I believe that his representations were to this effect: "Don't listen to France, to Russia, or to England; do what you please, they will quarrel among themselves; stand firm, and you will be sure of a successful issue of the struggle." But quarrel amongst themselves they did not; and the Sultan, deceived by false hopes, was unfortunately urged on to his own destruction. I say unfortunately, because, though I am not a lover of the Turk, and do not hold in respect the principles of his government, and set no great value on his political attachment to this country—I yet do not wish to see him crushed; and by no means do I wish to see him, by this, or any other country, driven from the position he occupies, and left to his fate. I do not wish to see him driven precipitately to his fate, and thereby leave open territories so valuable, and that would excite the cupidity of any power who might wish to possess them: that is a result which no one can contemplate with unmixed satisfaction. That part of the Speech on this subject, which gave me the most satisfaction, was the announcement that the terms of the pacification and settlement of Greece were likely soon to be adjusted; and adjusted, I should hope, on the basis of the Treaty of the 6th of July. I am not prepared to say that such treaty has not been honourably executed, and I will not say what might be thought of the first steps of the French government; but I do think, that the body of French troops sent into that country were not sent without the bona fide intention of carrying the stipulations of that treaty for the liberation of Greece into effect. If I am asked whether I anticipate anything unsatisfactory in the details of the pacification, I can only answer, that so far as we are yet
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informed, there has been a reasonable extension of territory conceded to the Greeks, and that I am not disposed to quarrel with the doctrines of a monarchy as the first principle of their future government. I will not enter into the question how far that principle may be consistent with the future form of that government, or how far the interference of others should extend in its first settlement; but I will say, that a government of that kind appears to me to be more likely to lead to something stable, definite, and intelligible for Greece, than if it were left to chance or to a diversity of interests, which, unguided by any principle, might but excite fears, jealousies, and other unpleasant sensations among the various governments of Europe, and render it doubtful how long the present peaceful relations of its different countries might continue. I will now say one word with respect to Portugal: I felt a strong degree of interest respecting that country, and I was not without doubts as to the course his majesty's government might pursue. That this matter has not been conducted to a satisfactory issue (and to do that the government has no easy task to perform) we learn from the Speech itself, which informs us that no specific settlement can yet be anticipated. If I were to venture to predict anything, it would be that Don Miguel will be recognised by this country. I am not prepared to say that I object to the fact of his being recognised. Circumstances may render it impossible for this country not to take that course; but if so, I hope it will be the recognition of him by England, and by England alone, without relation to any other power on earth. I hope it will be such a recognition as to call on Portutugal for a return of friendship and good offices for so disinterested an act; and lastly, I hope, that if Don Miguel be recognised, we shall not leave unfortunate men, who had been persecuted on account of their patriotic attachment, still to suffer as the victims of tyranny, [hear] but that their hard fate may be mitigated by the influence of British councils. From what I have both heard and seen, I fear it will not be mitigated without such interference. I say I do hope that the unhappy victims of oppression and illegal outrage will not be left to suffer perpetual exile, and cruel poverty, not for their crimes, but for their virtues, [cheers] I will take the liberty now, if I have not

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already intruded a little too far, of turning from this part of the subject to the topics more specifically alluded to by the noble earl. As far as I can judge from the general tenor of his observations, the two great objects he has in view are to take measures to get rid of the "pestilent heresy," as it had been called, of free trade, and to diminish the amount of the taxes by paying them in a different currency, or to retrace our steps on the subject of the currency. As to the first of these matters I will just observe one thing. Whenever I have met these violent opponents of free trade, and have questioned them' on their opinions, I have never been able to find one who could tell me what his notion of free trade was, still less what laws of trade had been altered—in what degree the alteration had taken place, and what was the effect of the alteration on the object which it affected; and I firmly believe that whenever we shall come to the discussion of this question, we shall be left by these persons as much in the dark as we hitherto have been. What says the noble earl, and what have a thousand others said, on the subject of wool? There have been violent declamations respecting the introduction of foreign wool at a low duty; and those who have thus admitted it have been stigmatized as heartless theorists, and indeed as little better than demons,—But those who advise us, in this respect, to follow what they call the "wisdom of our ancestors" seem to forget that it was those very ancestors who let freely, and without restraint, foreign wool come into this kingdom, [hear] If the wisdom of our ancestors is worth a straw, it is good against the duty, not in favour of it; for it was not until 1819 that a high duty was levied on it. They encouraged the importation of foreign wool. They may have been wrong; but whether they were or not, do let us call things by their right names, and not thus mistake facts, and then raise false inferences upon them. There is nothing more important in discussing a question of this kind, than that we should be quite certain of the premises on which we start; and we shall only get into difficulties, if we ascribe to certain causes things which do not arise out of them. I shall say nothing further on this subject now, but shall reserve myself for any general discussion on it. I will now say one word on the question of the currency. There
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is no idea more prevalent on this subject than that which was dwelt on by the noble earl; namely, a notion that the currency having changed has produced an increase of taxation, [hear, hear] That 'hear, hear' is just what I wanted; it she we the truth of what I have stated. Now the notion to which I have alluded would be quite correct if the amount of money paid in taxes were the same now as in the time of the depreciated currency. But what is the fact? In 1815, in the hey-day of our glory, the amount of taxes levied was somewhat more than the enormous amount of eighty millions. If the depreciation had been charged, as it may fairly be calculated, at 30 per cent, the amount would have been fifty-six millions. So that fifty six millions now are equivalent to eighty millions of that time. The same taxes, therefore, as were levied (including the property-tax) in 1815, and which then produced eighty millions, would, if levied now, produce fifty-six millions. It is a curious fact that the amount levied last year did produce just that sum. But we know that considerable reductions have taken place—I do not say that every thing has been reduced to its full extent; that the government has done all that they could, and the noble earl asks how they can expect to raise the same amount as in a depreciated currency? But what followed the bill on the subject of the currency? Did it follow that because the currency had been rectified there was a diminished production of manufactures and other produce, or of consumption? The truth was, a reduction of taxation had taken place to a very great extent antecedently to 1823. From that period, and previously to 1826, a reduction to the extent of nine millions had taken place; so that if the consumption were the same in 1827 as in 1823, there would be a diminished receipt of nine millions. But what was the fact? The diminution in the revenue did not exceed three millions; and if it were calculated in 1828, it would be found not to have gone beyond one million. This is only to be accounted for by an increased consumption of the necessary articles of life. The cause of this must have been, either that the population has increased, or that the people are able to consume more than they did. I care not one straw, so far as the argument goes, which of the two is taken to be the fact; for the result of either must

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show that the pressure has been lightened, or that the people have increased means of consumption. I will go into these matters more in detail at a future time, but I felt so strongly on the subject, that I was obliged to say thus much now in answer to the objections urged against the "pestilent heresy" of free trade, and the pernicious tendency of the currency-bill. I know that all feel the pressure of the times. I feel them deeply myself, but still more do I feel for those I who are less able to bear them; but I do; not think the things I have referred to are the causes of that pressure. I am not prepared to give my unqualified confidence to his majesty's government; but I do not come here to embarrass them. I hope others do not; and I will do my best to support them in the course they have adopted on these subjects, for I conceive it to be of infinitely more importance to continue in this course than to suffer oneself to be led away by errors on these great subjects, in order to make them the means of attacking, I had almost said assaulting, an administration, in order to triumph in their discomfiture; a measure, the consequences of which, if thus occasioned, few can truly foresee. If ever I had any political hostility to the present administration, I have buried it in the grave of the Catholic question. My sole object is to do the best I can to aid them or others in that course of government which I conceive to be beneficial; and if the ministry, instead of turning round are prepared to maintain the conduct they have hitherto adopted, I for one, shall not grudge them the possession of their office.
The Duke of Richmondsaid: but for the line of argument pursued by the noble viscount, especially on the subject of the wool-trade and duty, he should not on the present occasion have trespassed on their lordships' attention. The noble duke declared that he had only named the wool question because he thought that the wool-trade had been unfairly excepted from the general rule, and was not protected in the same ratio as others. He could refer to papers to show that it was not equally protected with others, he guarded against going into the subject of free trade, and had expressed no opinion on it, and therefore he ought not to have been charged with improperly referring to our ancestors' conduct on that subject. There was now
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three years' growth of wool on hand; the farmer could not get rid of his produce, and the manufacturer felt at second hand the distress inflicted on the farmer. The land-owners and occupiers were on the verge of ruin; and the labourers were existing, if existence it could be called, on the miserable pittance which the parish officers with difficulty collected for their support. Many of their lordships knew, if they attended to their magisterial duties, that many of the labourers were without the means of existence. He was not sanguine enough to suppose that his arguments would have any great weight there, but out of doors they would have their effect. The noble viscount said it would be a delusion to hold out a hope that parliament could provide a remedy for this evil. Were their lordships then to tell the labourer and manufacturer that they must starve? Were they to tell the yeomanry that there was no remedy for them but patience? That was not the language to hold to them in their distresses. He should not however shrink from the performance of his duty, although he might be exposed to the serious charge, by so doing, of "assaulting" he believed was the word—the administration. Not that he had any wish to assault the government, but he hoped that the expression of opinion in the House would be strong enough to show the noble duke that their lordships intended to do their duty to their country, and to act with justice to all. There were some points of the Address which he was happy to hear, even at this late period; he meant the allusion to the courts of law. He hoped that amendments would be adopted with respect to the court of Chancery and that the plans of the intended reforms would not be suffered to lie idly on that table.[hear]
The Earl of Caernarvonconsidered the language used in the Speech to be quite unworthy of our most gracious sovereign, and were only the expressions of those who now formed his councils. They alone must be answerable for them. On the whole, he must say that they were a most insulting, unfeeling, and cold-blooded allusion to the distresses of the country. He had felt a painful sensation in reading them; especially the confusion and incapacity manifested in the words which were put into the mouth of the sovereign, as to the impossibility of relieving the distresses.

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Yet the House were recommended to adhere to that course which, year after year, had been attended with increasing distress, and when the only cases in the wilderness of distress were those exhibited by the country when that course was departed; from. He admitted that there might be minor concurrent causes of distress; but the great and overwhelming cause which had brought down this country from the pinnacle of prosperity to its present depression, was, the line of conduct which the ministers, within the last few years, had thought fit to adopt. He could conceive nothing like the scattered allusions of the most extraordinary Speech. He, for his part, believed that it would be difficult to persuade the country that the state of the seasons, that a wet summer or a cold winter, had occasioned the general distress. He would call to the recollection of the House one circumstance of recent occurrence, which would at once put an end to all arguments upon the distress arising from the present season. Noble lords must recollect that the years 1816 and 1817 presented the worst seasons almost within memory. Now the country was placed, at the present moment, precisely in the situation in which it stood at the commencement of 1818; but was the distress to be compared? So far from it, 1818 was like an "oasis rising in the desert"; it was an era of bright, though, as it turned out, of illusory prosperity. Had the country, at the present moment, any such prospects of prosperity either in the agricultural, manufacturing, or commercial interests? No man would contend that prosperity was brightening. But the government had felt the distresses of 1816 and 1817, and they became alarmed at their own operations. They deferred their resumption of cash payments for two years: the dreary scene never had brightened, except on the occasion of temporary relaxation of those ill-fated measures taking place; and in those intervals a gleam of prosperity had returned on our affairs. Not only did the ministers do this, but if his recollection did not fail him, there was then an issue of seven million of Exchequer-bills, the Bank of England made an issue of three million of small notes, and there was a proportionate issue made by the private bankers. All this countervailed the inclemency of the season; and was not this plain fact better than speculative calculations, and
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the best of all arguments, in reply to all that was ever said about the wet summer? The distresses of the country were treated, however, as if they were of a trivial nature. He much lamented that so important a subject, one on which the happiness, prosperity, health, and lives of millions were dependent, should have been treated so lightly by those whose duty demanded a very different course of conduct. The noble viscount (Goderich) who had just spoken, expressed his determination to vote for no inquiry, as it would only prove illusory; and illusory he admitted it certainly would be, if the House of Lords should confess the same incapacity of which his Majesty's ministers already stood self-convicted. If the noble lords in office could propose no measure of assistance at such a juncture, when the cries of a suffering nation assailed their ears, they were not the ministers who could save the country. At the same time he did not mean to insinuate that this was to be referred to a want of capacity, whatever other deficiencies the present government might be charged with. On the subject of the currency laws, he would speak his sentiments freely, notwithstanding the reluctance which was so visible on the part of others, both within doors and abroad. Many entertained opinions similar to his own, although deference to one leader or another prevented them from speaking out. Some also hoped that the powerful hand of government would be extended to relieve the public from the intolerable evils so improperly termed 'temporary' in the official document then under their consideration. It would be easy to prove that every measure in other times, and other countries, which had for its object the contraction of the circulation, produced uniformly public distress. Formerly, distress which so originated passed away in a few years; now, however, the kingdom was placed under different circumstances, as the production of the precious metals had diminished while agricultural and commercial resources had multiplied. Many of the noble lords whom he addressed had been already obliged to abate their incomes by 20 or 30 per cent; but, according to the system pursued by government, they might make a still further reduction of 20 or 30 per cent more, without producing any permanently beneficial effect, so long as the principal source of

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mischief remained untouched. It was a foolish and a mad project to go on speculating how much contraction the currency would bear. Wiser and happier statesmen had supported successfully the principle that the currency could not be too extensive, provided it represented something substantial; or, in other words, that it represented property, whether agricultural, commercial, or manufacturing. Another great error had been committed in the settlement of the currency question —namely, that the standard should have been fixed to be a gold one. This was the only country which had a gold standard alone. A small expenditure required one standard; a larger another; but he considered the metallic currency in no other light than as the small change of a great commercial and manufacturing state. He would ask any one in that House whether, when rents were sent up to their bankers here, were they sent up, forsooth, in rouleaus of gold?—Never. They were sent up almost always in a paper currency, or by the bankers, for their own convenience—namely, bills of exchange. In cases of doubt only was there a demand or run on any one for gold or precious metals. When a panic occurred, it was always greater and more general in a larger country than in a smaller; the wealth of the former ought therefore to be represented by that metal, as a standard which was easier procurable than gold, and was also to be had in larger quantities. In no other country was gold exclusively a standard, nor did he believe that it could at this moment be obtained in any quarter of the world to meet an immediate and general demand. Besides, gold was more open to combinations than any other metal, which would be sufficiently demonstrated in a sudden exigence by the great dealers in money on the Stock Exchange. He would propose a silver standard, and have gold for circulation with a view only to convenience. The resources of the country would then be emancipated from the artificial fetters in which they were bound, and it would be shown, to the confusion of political economists, that they could be made the means of feeding as well as starving the population of the country. What was the condition of the English people just now? Why, 30,000,000 l. of taxes had been apparently taken off, an ostensible abatement from 84,000,000.
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to 56,000,000 l. had been made, and yet the pressure was found to be about the same as before. Were they in the present times, after fifteen years of peace, to be told that they must pay a property-tax, pay all the war taxes—in short, all that had been levied at the heaviest period of national expenditure;—now, too, while economy and retrenchment were adopted in every department of the public service? The noble duke at the head of the government had made promises of still greater reductions. In this respect, he was free to acknowledge that no minister had greater power or more honest intentions. He was quite willing to give that illustrious individual abundant credit for his ability and integrity, but he might retrench and economise until he should even put in peril the existence of our institutions, and yet the distress of the manufacturing and agricultural population, he could assure him, would not be the more ameliorated by exertions of such a nature. One of the evils attendant upon the working of the present system was the course of conduct which it imposed upon bankers. They could not, consistently with their interest, afford the slightest accommodation to farmers, who might suffer by a wet and backward season. The crop, although abundant, would necessarily require a longer period before it could be brought to market. The farmer, on presenting himself to the banker, demands a check for 100 l., and promises to pay the amount with interest, offering his corn, haystacks, cattle, &c. for security. This proposal, however, is invariably refused, as the nature of the circulation prevents the banker from profiting by acceding to it. His issues are in five-pound notes, and, on an average, from seven to eight days after their issue, those five-pound notes are returned on him for small change, which he is obliged to pay in gold. The only argument advanced in favour of this circulation appeared to be their supposed effect in preventing traders to any great amount on fictitious capital from going to market, and consequently so far it protected fair dealing, and encouraged the interests of trade. This assertion, nevertheless, was not true, in his opinion, to the extent alleged. He had seen returns made in the year 1825, which justified the inference, and led him to believe that its operation in this respect was very much over-rated. He recommended a silver

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standard, disavowed having attended any county meeting where the subject had been discussed, and stated his conviction that the distresses complained of were not of a temporary character, nor arising from accidental causes. There was, however, another point of the King's Speech which he could not forbear adverting to in terms of approbation and satisfaction. He meant the assurance of a reform in the courts of law. [hear, hear] This was a matter worthy of being undertaken by his majesty's government, and he had no doubt the announcement would be hailed with one common feeling of gratified expectation by every member of the community. With respect to a remedy for the distresses under which the country was suffering, he believed the noble duke opposite would be most glad to apply one, if he knew it; but though the noble duke might not be able to devise one, still it was necessary that a remedy should be applied, and that speedily. It was impossible that the poorer classes could continue in the state in which they were now suffering. If that class had no confidence in the ministry, they had confidence in parliament; but even in that their confidence would not long continue, unless they found that serious attempts were made to relieve the distress under which they laboured. Another topic to which he was anxious to call the attention of their lordships was one in which he considered that the honour of this country had been compromised, and its glory tarnished. He alluded to the conduct we had adopted towards those brave and loyal men who had endeavoured to land at Terceira, to add their force to that which was already there, acting in the name of their lawful sovereign, the young queen of Portugal. He contended that ministers, while professing a strict neutrality, as between the party of Don Miguel and the constitutionalists, or rather that of the lawful queen of Portugal, had shown a decided partiality to the usurper, and had materially assisted him in his outrageous violation of the rights of the young queen. If they had acted on the principles of strict neutrality, it might have been fair; but they had departed from it, and in every way showed a decided partiality for Don Miguel. They had, in fact, acted as constables for his protection. The noble lord observed that he had been prevented from bringing this subject forward in the latter part of last session; but he should
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at no distant day have the opportunity of directing special attention to it. In the meantime, he must maintain that the conduct of government, in preventing the landing of the Portuguese who went out unarmed to join the force of their lawful queen at Terceira, was a decided violation of that neutrality on which ministers professed to act, and was an interposition unwarranted by the law of nations. We certainly were not bound to assist in conveying them there; but he defied any man to prove that we were justified in preventing an unarmed force from landing on that island. Even if government knew that these men were afterwards to be all armed and sent to attack Portugal, still he would contend that, acting strictly as neutrals, we were bound not to interpose. He would ask the noble viscount (Melville) at the head of the Admiralty, if he had ever heard of such a naval or military armament as an unarmed vessel containing six hundred unarmed men? He hoped their lordships would receive some satisfactory explanation on this subject—if it could be given. He had seen the curious dispatch of the noble duke to the noble earl (Aberdeen) at the head of the Foreign Department on this subject. He could account for a communication of this kind between the noble duke and the earl, by a wish on the part of the former to let his noble friend, whom he had kindly relieved for a short time from the business of his department, see what he had been doing for him in his absence. The noble duke seemed also to take upon himself the responsibility of another noble friend, who was at the head of the Admiralty. He avowed the whole act as his own, and as if he alone were responsible. "The whole act," said he, "is mine"—
"Me me adsum qui feci: in me convertite ferrum."
The whole proceeding reminded him of some humorous designs in which he had seen a noble lord represented as an actor of all work. But when the government put forth such statements to justify their conduct as their belief that the Portuguese were about to attack Terceira, the government professed to believe what no person in the country could believe but themselves. There was one circumstance, however, which took off a little of the regret he felt at the conduct of the British government. He rejoiced that those men had not arrived, at Terceira, because their

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absence contributed to enhance the glory of one of the most brilliant achievements in modern times. [hear] The commander of that little island, placed at the head of a few, opposed by a greater force, threatened by the whole kingdom of Portugal, and pressed by an enemy who could choose his own time for attack, and proportion his means to the occasion which required them—the commander of that island, with every thing to discourage him, with the example of the feeling entertained by this government towards his countrymen, proved in the proceeding of the British ship of war—that commander had attempted, and succeeded in the attempt, to defend the island, which he accomplished by an action that must for ever control the name of Count de Villa Flor amongst the first officers of his day. The glorious result at Terceira afforded a proof of the injustice with which the Portuguese character was treated. Our ministers had not done them justice, nor had they done justice to Don Miguel. They were engaged in a war against the resources of their own country, and were incapable of acting a bold and manly part even against such a monster. He could not conclude without calling on the country to come forward and show that the distresses were not partial but general. If ministers could not propose a remedy for the distress, others should be found who could. [hear, hear] To persevere in the present course was impossible. They must attempt something to improve the state of the country. It was not permitted to a great people to act a little and obscure part, if the ministers did not find a remedy, the country would have a ministry by whom some remedy could be devised. If this were not provided, and speedily, he could see nothing await us but a rapid diminution of power and influence. In urging these opinions he felt that he was acting with perfect consistency. It would not be easy to convince him that the relation of cause and effect could not be traced between what had happened and what had been often foretold. If they had taken a wide step in error, it was only by taking as wide a step in retreat that they could hope to recover their lost advantages. He did not think that a parliamentary inquiry would answer any good purpose. The people of this country would not be Englishmen if they were satisfied with any thing short of the prompt
34
exertion of the government to dissipate the present distress. The government had confessed themselves not only not able to remedy the distress, on the contrary they now declared, they could not even distinguish it. [hear] As for the Speech, it meant nothing—it was nonsense. He spoke without intending disrespect to the noble lords opposite; but such was the light in which it struck him; considered as the Speech, not of the king, but of the minister, whose policy it was intended to lay open. He was not one of those who would object to an ordinary compliment upon such an occasion; but he felt that, by voting for this Address, he should pledge himself to a blind reliance upon ministers—a course which, under all the circumstances, he did not consider it his duty to adopt. He considered that it would pledge him to an opinion as to the state of the country which he believed to be inconsistent with truth; and he was astonished how the opinion could have found its way into the Speech.
The Duke of Wellington.— If, my lords, I could entertain any doubt as to the propriety of the determination which I had formed not to refer to those points of the motion of my noble friend near me, relative to foreign affairs, in answer to noble lords opposite—1 say, my lords, if I had ever harboured any such doubts, they would be entirely removed by the latter parts of the speech of the noble earl (Carnarvon) who has just sat down. The noble earl, instead of referring to those parts in his Majesty's Speech, and in the Address of my noble friend, which have relation to the transactions of the present year, has found it necessary to refer to the history of the last two years, in order to find ground of blame against his Majesty's government. In the very last session of parliament I declared my earnest anxiety that your lordships would be pleased to discuss the very question which the noble earl has taken advantage of this night's discussion to introduce to your consideration—taken advantage of to introduce, without notice to any one concerned, or opportunity given them to consult the documents, that we might see whether the noble earl quoted them correctly, or whether any others were necessary to the elucidation of those transactions to which he referred. It was not to those transactions that the noble earl addressed himself, but to certain papers for which he had

35
upon some former occasion moved; and tonight, upon the occasion of considering an Address in answer to the Speech from the Throne, he loses sight of all the topics of that Speech and Address, and refers to other transactions, upon which no information has yet been given to the House, or, at least, but very partial information, and charges government with certain things— where he found them God only knows— most certainly not in the despatches which have been laid before this House, or which have reached the public offices. I say, my lords, that there was no such communication as that the noble earl refers to. It, was desired by Don Miguel that the British troops should continue in Portugal, but the proposal was negatived by the British government; and it is not true that any such proposition was made by any individual, or set of individuals, on the part of this government, that I ever heard of. But the noble earl considers that to us is attributable the failure of the insurrection of Oporto. Surely not, my lords; we had nothing to do with it. The truth is, that the insurrectionists of Oporto had all the strength of troops, abundance of ammunition, and all the muniments of war necessary to carry their points, and they were joined by the very officers who (the noble earl says) were absent, and who, if present, would have obtained all the ends of the expedition; but they withdrew from Portugal, they quitted the ship which carried them, they left the country, because they saw the whole country was against them. That was the fact, and it appeared upon the face of the correspondence. But, not only has the noble earl referred to transactions for which there are no documents, but also to others, of which the documents are before your lordships, and to which he might as well have given notice of his intention of referring to-night. I say, my lords, that we were neutral in the contest between Don Miguel and his niece or brother; that we were neutral in the civil war of Portugal. The neutrality was never violated by us. We were bound in commercial relations with Portugal, bound by a commercial treaty before the time that he usurped the government of Portugal; and under that we had rights to maintain. Being so situated, could we suffer an army to be organised at Plymouth for the purpose of invading Portugal, the Azores, Terceira, or any other place within his dominions? Don Miguel
36
might be an usurper, or he might not; that was not a question which we had a right to settle by appeal to such arguments as would show a disposition to violate the strict neutrality which it was our duty to observe in the contest. The noble earl talks of the cruelty of that transaction at Terceira, and regrets that blood has been spilled. I regret it too. I believe that one man was killed, though the evidence on that point is not so clear as the noble earl would make it appear. The fact has not been proved. But this was not our affair; we did no more than was required to keep his Majesty's neutrality, [hear] and we were fully justified by the laws of nations, and by that treaty, in taking those measures, [hear, hear, from Lord Holland] The noble earl has also adverted to the correspondence having been carried on through the person who fills the situation which I have the honour to hold, upon that occasion, as if I had taken upon myself the duties of my noble friend (Lord Aberdeen;. But, if the noble earl would quote accurately that correspondence, he would see the reason why it devolved upon me, why my noble friend did not undertake it, and why it was afterwards transferred to my noble friend. It remained in my hands so long as the person acting here for Portugal did not assume an official character, which it was our object to prolong, but as soon as an official person did appear, the business was then transferred to my noble friend, and from that time he took upon himself the negotiation. Such was the history of that transaction as far as I recollect; for, not thinking that an affair which happened so long before last session would be made the subject of discussion to-night, I do not pretend to speak with any accuracy upon it, and, in fact, trust myself entirely to my recollection of its circumstances. I had intended, my lords, to confine myself in what I had to say to the latter part of the Speech from the Throne, and the latter part of the Address, which was particularly alluded to by the noble earl at the table, and which, notwithstanding the great pains that have been taken with other topics, I consider the most important part of the Speech. His Majesty has thought proper to recommend to this House that it would proceed with great caution in the consideration of the subjects which are to be submitted to it. But what does the noble earl opposite do? He

37
not only does not attend to the recommendation of his Majesty—a recommendation to proceed with prudence and discretion— but he calls upon your lordships to pledge yourselves, not only to inquire into those transactions for the good of the country, but he points out the very measures which ought to be adopted; namely, an alteration of the currency, [hear. No, from the Opposition] This, I say, my lords, is the measure pointed out by the noble earl. Me has thought proper to make some observations upon the Speech, as if his majesty's government had neglected to ascertain the true state of the country—as if they were ignorant of its distress, and as if I, in particular, was negligent of my duty in this instance. I can assure him that no one is more sensible than I am of the state of things, and that no one laments it more sincerely than I do: and I am certain that independently of motive or interest in this subject arising from my official situation, there is no person in the country who feels for its distress more acutely than the person who fills the situation which I have the honour to hold. The noble earl has said that, in the Speech, the whole of the distress is attributed to the state of the seasons; but what is the statement of the Speech upon that subject? Without affecting to quote it literally, is it not, in substance, this—" that, in considering the remedies to be applied to this state of things, you are to give due weight to the unfavourable nature of the seasons, which occasioned enormous expenses in collecting the harvest, and which has, in fact, occasioned one bad harvest, if not another; so that the collection of it was excessively expensive." Surely these circumstances must not be overlooked in taking the subject of distress into consideration. But, besides the agriculturists, there is another class labouring under great distress—the manufacturers. I want to know whether the competition of machinery with labour in all departments of mechanics—the general application of steam—the competition abroad with our manufacturers—and the general imitation of our fabrics—have not produced very great distress amongst the manufacturers at home? These are the circumstances to which his Majesty refers as important to be considered in connection with the subject of distress, and they are those over which parliament has no control. Can this House prevent competition by foreign markets with our own?
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Can we prevent improvements in machinery? Can we prevent steam from being applied, to foreign manufacture? And yet we all know that this injurious competition is ruinous to the manufacturer, by lowering his wages, or throwing the labourers out of employ. But then, the noble earl says the distress is general—universal. My lords, I am afraid the distress is very general; but I must say, notwithstanding the distress which prevails, that there are symptoms to show that the country is advancing. I say, and it may be proved by the documents, that the exports of British manufacture have increased, have been increasing for the last few years, and that in the last year they were larger than they ever were before. I say, my lords, that the amount of exports of produce of British manufacture is greater than it ever was before. [hear] I say that there are, upon all sides, shown the strongest symptoms of improvement in the condition of the country—that there is not a rail-road, or canal, upon which the traffic has not increased of late years, including last year. True it is, my lords, that the profits of trade are now smaller than they were formerly; but if profit, however small, is being derived from the labour of men and animals, surely it is impossible but that some advantage must accrue to some one. It is true that these advantages are not so great as they were ten or fifteen years ago [hear] but there is some advantage, or would the increase of traffic exist? And where that is the case the distress cannot be said to be universal. There is another circumstance which I would call to your lordships attention. There is in this country a very large class of persons who are retail dealers; I ask if they are distressed? [Hear, and Yes, from the Opposition.] This class is very numerous in every town and village in England; I want to know if they are distressed? Are they able to pay their rents? Who build and rent all the new houses that one sees in all directions? These, my lords, are circumstances, say what you please, which every man must feel and acknowledge as indications that the country, notwithstanding the pressure upon it, is still rising, and in some points must continue to rise. I will now say one word, my lords, upon the remedies proposed by the noble earl. That noble lord has entirely misunderstood the argument of the noble viscount (Goderich). The noble viscount had said that the reve-

39
nue in the year 1815 produced eighty millions sterling, and that, though taxes had been reduced, first to the amount of eighteen millions, and afterwards to the amount of nine millions, making altogether twenty-seven millions, the revenue produced in sound currency now the same amount as it did in a depreciated currency before. Does not, then, this fact of the revenue keeping up, though the taxes were taken off, prove that the consumption of articles had increased one-third since the period when the taxes were taken off—a proof, also, of the better state of the country. It would be impossible for the country to increase in its consumption one-third in fifteen years if it was suffering under the universal distress which the noble Lord talks of. The noble Lord opposite and the noble Lord who spoke last (Carnarvon) have thought proper to refer the distress to a deficient circulation. Now, my Lords, I hold in my hand a paper which gives the relative amounts of the circulation at different periods. By this it appears that the largest sum ever known to be in circulation during the Bank Restriction was 64,000,000 l. sterling. The sum was made up of—

Bank of England notes

£30,000,0000

Country-bank notes

23,000,000

Gold

4,000,000

Silver

7,000,000

Total

£64,000,000

But in the last year the circulation consisted of—

Bank of England notes

£19,900,000

Country-bank notes

9,200,000

Gold

28,000 000

Silver

8,000,000

Total

£65,100,000

Being an excess over the largest circulation ever known, [hear] If the question be about the actual amount of money in circulation, I beg to observe that there is more money in circulation now than there ever was at any period of the Bank restriction, and that whoever considers that there is abroad sixty-five millions, cannot say that money is scarce. Why, the truth of the matter is, that noble lords want not extended circulation, but unlimited circulation—that is—to give an unlimited power to some individuals—not the Crown, any one but the Crown—to coin as much money, in the shape of paper, as they please, that they may be enabled to lend
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a fictitious capital to all sorts of speculators, [hear] This is what the noble earl opposite wants, but what the country cannot have without exposing it to a degree of ruin from which it has so narrowly escaped in 1825 and 1826. [hear] If your lordships will attend to the arguments of the noble lord, you will see that this is what he wants. For what is the language now held? "In the west of England," one says, "I inquired, and found that the fanner could not borrow any money: his corn-yards and hayricks were full, but he was not able to raise money upon them; and why? Because the country banker cannot coin 1l. notes." [hear] — If these bankers, says the noble earl, cannot lend their money, they cannot get any interest upon their capital. I beg his pardon. The banker may have discount upon cashing the farmer's bill; but he is not content with that profit, he wants to be coining 1l. notes, and to have profit upon those insecure notes, in addition to the discount, [hear] And what is it the noble earl wants now, and will, perhaps, move for in a few days? Not to increase the circulation, for there is as much now as at any former period, but to give certain persons power to lend as much money as they please upon land or no land, upon security or no security. I submit to your lordships that the noble earl has not proved the want of money— there never was a period when money was less wanted. Is there any man, however speculative — any scheme, however visionary, provided only it is a little plausible, which now-a-days lacks support? Is there any power, however bankrupt, even Portugal and Brazil, though the creditors of these countries have been so ill-treated, but can borrow money in this city upon any security or no security? In fact, capital is more abundant now than it was ever known to be, and the evil is certainly not too limited a circulation. I am sorry to trouble your lordships with these observations, which are rather replies to what has been said by the noble earl, and I will now pass to more important topics in his Majesty's Speech—namely, the measures which affect the permanent welfare of the country. In answer to all the declamation that we have heard to night, as to the evils resulting from free trade, and this system of currency, I beg to state to your lordships only one fact. Since the year 1815, but

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principally since the bank restriction was taken off, measures have been adopted by which this country has been relieved from twenty-seven millions a year taxes, besides three millions or four millions interest of the debt, representing a capital of hundred millions of debt. I beg you to bear this in mind when you are discussing this question; and I would tell the advocates of what is called an "equitable adjustment," that, with all their measures, they could not have accomplished so much. I repeat, that since the bank restriction has been taken off, the country has been relieved to the amount of nine millions and eighteen millions besides. I wish to take no credit to myself for this; I give it to those to whom it is properly due—to my noble friend upon the cross-bench (Lord Bexley) and to the noble viscount (Goderich) opposite. Your lordships, then, perceive what may be done by economy; we give our pledge to strive to attain similar ends by the like means, and we call upon you, and count upon your giving us your aid, in putting that economy into practice which will enable us to imitate and rival our predecessors. I trust that your lordships will believe that his Majesty's ministers will do all in their power to relieve the distresses of the country.
The Marquis of Clanricardesaid, notwithstanding the tone in which the noble duke had thought proper to comment upon the observations of the noble earl (Carnarvon), he contended that there never was a session in which parliament waited with so much patience and composure for information respecting our foreign relations as the last session. Some of the most important papers, relating to the Portugal affair, were not laid before this House till the close of the last session. The noble earl, in his opinion, had taken a proper opportunity to canvass these papers to-night, for this was in fact the first opportunity which had offered for such an inquiry. Could it be said that the notice of them was unseasonable now, when government were about, by their own confession, to recognise Don Miguel? [hear]—He hoped that some information would be given to the House respecting the mission of a noble friend of his to the Brazils, for without such information it would not be dealing fairly with the House to call upon it to pledge itself to any course of policy with respect to Don Miguel, which by agreeing
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in this Address, they might be supposed to be. He hoped some noble lord would make a motion on the subject, but it would, be more satisfactory and becoming if it came from ministers themselves, [hear] He was not disposed to canvass the whole Speech in detail, but he could not help congratulating ministers upon their great versatility, in being able to extract pleasure from Turkey, which they had hitherto regarded as a source of pain. [hear] He hoped the explanation would fee given relative to the mission to the Brazils.
The Earl of Aberdeenexplained. No advantage was intended to be taken of the House with respect to the negotiation with Don Miguel because their lordships might concur in this Address. Their lordships might rest assured that all due information would be laid before them before any steps were taken in that recognition—
Lord Holland.—Steps?—[hear]
The Earl of Aberdeen.—What I mean to say is, that before any thing is done, parliament will be furnished with information tending to explain and justify the advice which we may give, [hear, hear, from the Opposition] That any intention exists at this moment of taking such a step as that of recognising Don Miguel I will not now say; but thus far I will be explicit, that I myself have long considered the recognition as a question of time only, for take place it must at one time or other, though perhaps the period may be precipitated or retarded by different considerations. Happen, however, when it may, I have only to repeat, that all the information which will be calculated to explain and justify our measures shall be laid before you.
Lord Holland.—I do not rise to prolong this discussion, but to have, if I can, a clear understanding of the meaning of the noble lord's expression. If I understand him rightly, he says that, when the happy period arrives when we are to acknowledge as king of Portugal that usurper whose whole course has been marked by the greatest hostility and perfidy to this country, parliament is to be made acquainted with all about it; but is it to be before or after, for there lies all the difference? In the early part of his short address, the noble lord used the expression "steps taken," which he afterwards qualified, by saying that the information

43
would be afforded before any determination was come to upon the subject of Don Miguel. Now, my lords, in my opinion these expressions make all the difference, and it is of the last necessity that we understand each other clearly. This is the more necessary after the rebuke which my noble friend (Lord Carnarvon) received from the noble duke opposite, who, when, two years ago, these papers were refused, then declared that such a refusal was solely owing to negotiations then pending, and that he longed, nay, panted for a discussion upon them, and was never so anxious to go into a full explanation of the foreign relations of the country—afterwards allowed a whole session to pass without saying one word to parliament on the subject—and, at last, when the House called for information, at the end of a fortnight or three weeks, came down here in a way that nobody ever saw a Secretary of State, I am sure, before—laying a bundle of papers upon the table, without saying whether they were all the documents necessary, or saying a single word to explain them, all incomplete and garbled as they were. I say, my lords, that when my noble friend near me, with great eloquence and great perspicuity, makes some observations upon these papers, the noble duke says, "Oh, this is the old story; what do you mean now? why didn't you give notice?" [laughter]—It is the more necessary that we understand each other at once, lest he again turn round upon us hereafter. The fact is, my lords, that these papers do not contain one-half, of the thing, and the conduct of government, as appears upon the face of them, is bad and disgraceful indeed. [hear]—I hope the noble duke will give us this in-formation with a good grace. I do not want to press him now, but that, before the time arrives when we are to recognise Don Miguel as king, it will be found necessary to lay the whole case before us, and, above all, have it explained, since we were told from the Throne last session, that the head of the House of Braganza was the quarter where these differences were to be terminated, and we know that a minister had been sent out to the Brazils to suggest the grounds of a negotiation between the contending parties. "What was the termination, and why the failure, of that mission? not a word was there of it in the papers before the House, though parliament had an undoubted
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right to the most extended information upon the subject. I hope, that before they resolve upon the disgrace and ignominy of recognizing that bloody usurper and tyrant of a country which is of more importance to this nation than any other country in Europe, your lordships will be favoured with full information upon all that has been done in the matter. There is another subject, too, the affairs of the east, upon which I trust the lords will not be left without information. I would not say any thing upon that subject now, except that I thought his majesty's ministers had treated their "ancient ally," the Turk, with great disrespect. For my own part, I should not have regretted the fall of an odious and disgusting tyranny, which had done so much mischief to mankind. As a citizen of the world, I am sorry that the Russians had not taken Constantinople. People might say, "Oh, we should have sent a fleet to prevent them." But their lordships might depend upon it that if the Russians had taken Constantinople, we should have sent no fleet, whatever we might have threatened to do.
The Earl of Aberdeensaid, he could state to the noble baron, that whenever his Majesty's ministers thought proper to advise their sovereign to remove diplomatic relations with Portugal, they should not ask his advice as to the course that ought to be adopted. Their lordships might depend upon being furnished with the fullest information—with information which he trusted would fully justify the government in every step that had been taken. The noble lord, who never spoke of Don Miguel but in terms of strong vituperation and almost of horror, [hear, from Lord Holland] must be aware now how much the conduct of that individual had been exaggerated. The noble lord must know what the spirit of party and political prejudice would do against the character of princes, even when they least deserved opprobrium. That Don Miguel's character might merit all the reproaches cast upon it was possible, and he would be very far from defending or even palliating what was considered reprehensible conduct in him. But the noble lord ought to have been the last person to object to him as a usurper, because he had on I former occasions shown no disinclination to acknowledge usurpers. Don Miguel was, besides, the choice of the people. He maintained that it was the interest of

45
England to connect itself with Portugal, whether governed by one brother or the other of the House of Braganza; and the interruption which had taken place in the relations between the two countries was of longer duration than had ever occurred for two hundred years before. The interruption of those relations was calculated to injure the union which had so long subsisted between the two countries, and open a way to other powers in Europe to occupy that place which we had held in relation to Portugal. It was not therefore to be wondered at that his Majesty's government should be anxious, at the first proper moment, to go back to that state which had been the settled policy of this country for so many years. When the government should think that that moment had arrived, their lordships would be informed of it, and they then would be in a condition to judge whether his Majesty's ministers had acted properly; and he trusted that the House and the country would not think they had acted precipitately.
Lord Hollandsaid, he had never expected that the noble Earl would ask his advice upon any subject, for he appeared to take all his measures without consulting parliament or indeed any body else. In allusion to some peculiar expressions that had fallen from the noble Earl, he wished to say a few words merely in explanation. The noble Earl had said that he would not ask advice as to the time of re-opening the relations with Portugal; but he trusted parliament would not wait till the noble earl chose to give information, but would of itself call upon ministers to lay the documents connected with the subject on the table. With respect to Don Miguel, he was not merely a usurper, but he had seized the throne in spite of the promises he had made. He had directly broken faith with us; and it was not merely because he was a usurper that he (Lord Holland) was unwilling to acknowledge Don Miguel. That prince was a far different sort of a person from Napoleon, who was no usurper, but had been called to the government of France, in the same manner as the royal family of this kingdom, by the voice of parliament, and the representatives of the people; and therefore he had been disposed to acknowledge him as the king of France. The noble earl had said that it was the interest of this country to maintain a connexion with Portugal. It then
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became the duty of parliament to consider how far the conduct of his Majesty's ministers had served to separate Portugal from England. When the present ministry of this country came into office, England had military possession of Portugal, but now, in consequence of our conduct, Portugal was looking to a connexion with France. He hoped parliament would take some steps to know how far the present situation of affairs was the result of misconduct in the ministry, or of that abominable and disgusting outrage, and violation of law, perpetrated at Terceira. The insinuation which the noble earl had made that he (Lord Holland) was inclined to favour revolutionary governments, though conveyed in parliamentary language, he considered to be highly improper, especially when the situation which the noble earl held in his Majesty's government was considered.
The Earl of Winchilseasaid, he would give with heartfelt satisfaction his support to the Amendment to the Address, the character and nature of which had been much misrepresented by the noble duke opposite. The proposed Amendment called on the House to take into its serious consideration the present distressed situation of the country—distress admitted on all hands to exist, and from which all interests were suffering—and to consider what remedies ought to be applied to it: it did not allude to any specific remedy. He felt regret at the slight allusion made in his Majesty's Speech to the unparalleled distress existing in the country. The slightness of the allusion might have arisen from the advisers of the Crown, whose duty it was to inform his Majesty of the state of the country, having either withheld information or misrepresented it, or told his Majesty that it was not in the power of Parliament to afford relief; but if the House neglected to take into consideration the distressed state of the country, it would be neglecting its duty to the public. It might cause the country to think that the House was unable to legislate for the public good; he was sorry to say that he saw a spirit for forming associations springing up in different parts of the country, not for the purpose of laying the grievances of the people before the Parliament, but to propose remedies of their own, and to redress their own wrongs; and if their lordships neglected to inquire into the distress of the country, they would

47
be giving encouragement to that spirit. He certainly believed that there were other causes besides the unparalleled badness of the seasons in causing the present distress. Some causes had been mentioned, in his Majesty's Speech as being beyond the control of Parliament; but as those causes were not explained, many speculative and perhaps erroneous opinions would be formed, which would not tend to the tranquillity and peace of the country. From personal experience and from information he had received from well-informed persons, he was convinced that distress was pervading every county of England at present in a most unparalleled degree, and therefore he gave his most decided support to the noble earl's Amendment.
Earl Stanhopeexplained.—If the noble duke had done him the honour to attend to his Amendment, he would have found that it did not pledge the House to the introduction of the question which the noble duke imagined. It only went to this extent, to call upon the House to inquire into the cause of the distress—the existence of which was not disputed—and to administer speedy relief. If the House neglected its duty, and failed to inquire into the distresses of the country, feelings of contempt, on the part of the people, towards their lordships, would naturally arise.
Lord Kingthen rose.—He found it to be absolutely necessary to move an amendment of his own; [a laugh]—for he could neither agree in that part of the Address which the noble duke opposite had moved (the Duke of Buccleuch,) respecting the distresses of the country; nor in the amendment of the noble earl near him (Earl Stanhope), supported as it had been by his speech. The objection he had to his Majesty's Speech was, because it conveyed no adequate idea of the distress of the country,—of the nature of the disease,—and none whatever of the proper cure. Their lordships heard from that Speech the ten-times-told tale of temporary distress; but he wanted to know the reason why, after fifteen years peace, the country experienced a constant recurrence of what was called temporary distress. When their lordships saw distress so universal as the present, no doubt they must think that there was a great pervading and adequate cause. That cause was an error of the legislature, but not of the nature the noble earl supposed. It was the fault of the government, which government could
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remedy. If their lordships looked to the speech of the noble earl, they would find that it bore with it a strong hankering after the flesh-pots of Egypt. The noble carl remarked how well things went on when paper formed the circulating medium. Then rents were high. But such things could not last long; and now those who have caused the distress do not want to feel any of it. Those who voted for the Bank Restriction-bill, found everyone very smooth while it continued; but when there came a specie circulation, they then saw themselves obliged to pay their share of the burdens with which they had before loaded others. This was retributive justice, and Bentham himself could not have invented a punishment more appropriate to the crime. They were suffering because they had encouraged by their voice, and supported by their votes, the depreciation of the currency, and the suffering was just in proportion to the degree of excess in which they indulged their wishes with respect to that currency. He remembered some lines of a poet, which he considered exceedingly applicable to the situation and expressions of those persons, and which were not more remarkable for their severity than for their truth.
"Ye ruined squires and scathed nobility;
What boots it now to raise a loud lament
Of grinding taxes and of falling rent,
And fill our Senate with your senseless cry?
Time was, the coming mischief to prevent,
But then with flinty heart and tearless eye,
You saw your peasants droop—your soldiers die;
Hind paid with rags, and troops to Walcheren sent.
A sturdy swain deprived of his meed,
Even by your war made slavish, lean, and poor;
What reck'd ye—you but gain'd an ample store.
So now shall pity leave you in your need,
Unmov'd we hear you rant, and howl, and roar;
For none who taste of woe have e'er deserv'd it more."
For the last fifteen years every thing had been getting bad, but now every thing exhibited symptoms of being worse, except perhaps the royal palaces which they saw rising around them. And what did their lordships suppose this proved? Why it proved that the progress of society' was arrested, and they had arrived at what the political economists call the stationary, which immediately precedes the declining. There have been a variety of reasons assigned at various times for the distress. At one time there was a superabundance of food; at another a superabundance of goods; at a third they were labouring under a load of paper; at a fourth under a load of money; all these foolish reasons were assigned as the cause

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of that sinking and going down which every one experienced. The true reason he apprehended was to be found in the odious monopolies which met them at every turn. The nation was, in fact, the victim of monopoly. They had a monopoly of beer—a monopoly of corn—of, sugar—of tea; and the effect of all these fell on the consumer, [hear, hear, hear] Every one who suffered from any one of these exclaimed against that monopoly, or against the other, as the monopoly happened to gall them; but no one seemed to care for the poor consumer who paid for all. He verily believed that the relief which might be afforded by the repeal of these monopolies, would amount to at least one-half the national debt, [hear] He was confident that the nation would be a gainer to that amount, and have a good bargain too, for he considered the relief would prove at least equal to fifteen millions sterling per annum. The price of raw produce had been raised most improvidently by these monopolists; and that was the cause of the distress. By raising the price of the raw produce, the manufactured article was rendered clearer; and then there was no demand. That was their situation at present. The price was raised; the demand was lessened; the profits, of course, diminished; and then, as a matter of course, capital found its way abroad, instead of being brought into activity at home. This was the effect of monopoly. The landed interest was suffering from monopoly and want of demand, because the manufacturers, who were also suffering from the same causes, could not afford to eat. There were three countries suffering at this moment from the same causes—countries which possessed a superabundance of wealth and resources beyond every other in Europe, and none of which were oppressed from the absence of a paper currency. These were America, France, and England. America, not behind this country in folly, has had the weakness to deprive herself of the advantages nature bestowed on her, and instead of labouring to increase the export of her raw produce, weakly endeavours to become a manufacturing country. In France, where the system has been somewhat analogous to that of this country, the people were suffering equal depression, because they too had their monopoly. First, there was the monopoly of iron, which rendered that material two or three times dearer than in this
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country. That monopoly, equal to a tax on labour, prevented the French from selling their wines. But then there were, no doubt, many eloquent persons in France, who would dwell with ecstacy on the merits of French iron, and exclaim, "What! are we to be dependent on England for our iron?" That, however, was not good for the owners of woods, for it raised the price, and the result was, that France was punished for her monopoly by a tax on labour, by the loss of the sale of her wines, and by a tax on fuel. By these means nations destroyed their own prosperity; and although he believed there were means of raising this country to a higher pitch of prosperity than she had ever yet possessed, if it could but be prevailed on to become a customer of those nations which were it6 rivals, yet he doubted the firmness of those whose duty it was to execute such a task. The noble lord apologized for troubling the House so much in detail, and concluded abruptly by proposing his amendment—to be inserted after "Majesty," in the 13th paragraph; which was—:
"That after fifteen years of uninterrupted peace, this House laments that the general condition of the people is not materially improved, or the prosperity of the country perceptibly increased; that, on the contrary, the landed and manufacturing interests, as well as the traders and labourers of every description, have frequently been afflicted and still continue to be weighed down by severe distress:
"That it is the duty of Parliament to examine into the causes which have produced these distresses, and to remove the impediments which retard the progress of the national prosperity:
"That the necessaries of life and the materials of manufacture are rendered dear by taxation and regulation: by these means too much is taken from the industrious classes, and, in many instances, too much is given to the privileged classes.
"That it is a grievous aggravation of the public burthens, in addition to near I fifty millions of taxes deemed necessary for the public service, still further to permit enormous sums to be extorted from the people by the intolerable monopolies of corn, beer, sugar, tea, and other articles, established for the private benefit of powerful and favoured classes, at the expense of the great body of consumers and of the public good:

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"By these monopolies, the cost of the first necessaries of life is enhanced, the rate of profit in all trades diminished, capital driven abroad to seek a more profitable employment, and the productive powers of the national industry are greatly reduced:—By restrictions imposed on the import of foreign corn, the markets of other nations are in a great degree closed against us, the demand for the produce of the national industry is limited, and the symptoms of general distress are manifested in the inadequate reward of labour, and in the increasing difficulty of finding any profitable employment for capital and industry:
"By the partial and exorbitant duties of Excise imposed upon beer and malt, combined with the double monopoly conferred both on the grower of barley and on those who are licensed to sell beer, the price of that necessary of life is so greatly enhanced, that in the course of eighty years, whilst the population has been more than doubled in number, the consumption of malt has actually decreased:
"By the monopoly conferred on the cultivators of sugar in the British West-India islands, the price of that great article of consumption is very much enhanced at the expense of the people of England, who might be better supplied if permitted to resort to other markets, and who are also, for the benefit of the monopolists of the said islands, burthened with the heavy charge of defending those unhealthy and precarious possessions:
"By the exclusive privilege of navigation and trade to China conferred on the East-India Company, the whole supply of tea consumed in the United Kingdom is placed at the discretion of a single company of traders: monopoly in this, as in every similar instance, has produced its usual consequences; the price of tea is greatly increased, as compared with the price of the same article in the free markets of Europe and America; the quantity imported is limited by the narrow views of obtaining a large profit on a small supply, entertained by the monopolist company; the British manufactures suited to the Chinese markets are consequently exported in much smaller amount; and the public thus suffers in the increased price of tea, in the diminished demand for home manufactures, and in the exclusion from all navigation and trade to one of the greatest markets of the world;
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"That it appears that these gigantic monopolies, superadded to the heavy load of taxation, have impoverished the country, and produced the public distress:
"That all prohibitions and restrictions imposed for the benefit of particular classes or companies, for the purpose of producing artificial high prices, are no less impolitic than unjust:
"That our own exclusion from the great market of the world, and the cessation of demand at home, are the necessary consequences of our own measures; because it is in the nature of things that a nation which refuses to buy the productions of other countries cannot sell its own:
"That we can only expect to derive permanent relief from our distresses, and improvement in our condition, from the strictest economy in every branch of the public expenditure, from the abolition of all exclusive privileges and monopolies, from an unrestricted supply of the first necessaries of life and of the materials of manufacture, and from a real free trade, by which the whole community, as consumers of goods, will be greatly benefited, the labouring classes enabled to procure a fair reward, the capitalist to augment those funds by which all labour is supported, and the efficiency of British industry permitted to produce its natural result in enriching the country, and thus to restore and to secure the public prosperity."
Earl Darnleysaid, he preferred the original motion of the noble Duke to the amendment of the noble Earl, or to that of his noble friend near him (Lord King). The Address did not preclude investigation; on the contrary, it invited it. It only exhorted their lordships—a recommendation in which he fully concurred—to proceed with caution and prudence; for if they held out to the people, suffering as they were, a pledge or prospect of immediate relief by any of the nostrums which were proposed, they would be doing mischief instead of good. He rose principally for the purpose of noticing an omission in the Speech of the Lords Commissioners. He observed that it contained no mention of Ireland. He admitted that much had been done for that part of the kingdom by his noble friend opposite (Wellington), but much remained still to be done. He should not, however, intrude upon their lordships with that subject at so late an hour, and the more particularly

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as it was remarkable that, from whatever cause it proceeded, scarcely a single representative peer of Ireland had been in attendance that day. He wished, however, to lay his claim to an early opportunity of bringing forward some motion on the subject of Ireland, unless his noble friend at the head of the government should originate something of the kind, who could of course do it with more effect than any other person.
The Duke of Wellingtonexplained.—He denied that allusion to Ireland was omitted on account of the absence of particular noble lords, and declared, that although the situation of that country did not require such a notice, its situation had not escaped the attention of his Majesty's government, who intended to introduce a measure connected with it in the course of the session.
Earl Stanhopesaid, he wished, in explanation, to observe previously to the conclusion of the debate, that he had meant to represent that there was but one of two alternatives open; either to extend the currency, or to return, as had been wished by a large public meeting, to the expenditure of the country previously to the French revolutionary war.
The Marquis of Lansdownewished to state shortly his reasons why he should vote against the noble earl's Amendment. It appeared from the speech with which that Amendment was introduced, that it was the object of the noble earl to induce the House to do all in its power again to plunge the country into what he could not but consider one of the greatest evils that could await any nation—certainly one of the greatest evils this country had ever endured—an unlimited issue of paper circulation. If the first step were taken, it would lead to subsequent steps, against which he felt it his duty to guard this House and the public. He knew of no extension that was not in danger of amounting to an unlimited issue. He did not know, however, if he should not have supported the Amendment, had not the Speech admitted distress, and in terms which implied a promise that inquiry should take place upon the subject, and which the country had a right to expect. It existed unquestionably to a lamentable extent; but he concurred in the recommendation that it should receive the most cautious inquiry. He thought it necessary to make these few observations in explanation of
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the vote which it was his intention to give on this occasion. He had often felt from experience the great difficulty which attended the discussion of numerous foreign and domestic interests at the same time; but if that difficulty had been felt on former occasions, how much more strongly did it attach on the present, since the interval which had elapsed since last session of parliament had produced changes and influences affecting our foreign interests of a most important character; and others more disastrous, affecting our domestic interests from one end of the country to the other. Although noble lords had a right to express their opinions on these events, it was impossible they could do so all at once with that degree of attention and caution which their importance required. He would not, therefore, take the present opportunity of entering into the discussion of those changes and circumstances, some of which most materially affected the glory and prosperity of this country. He agreed with the sentiments expressed by the noble mover of the Address on the subject of Greece; he rejoiced to hear that, out of those hostilities which had taken place in the east of Europe, there had grown up the prospect of the independence of that country; and to have heard it afterwards announced that measures had been concerted for her pacification. Whatever might be the result of those measures, he trusted it would be one calculated to make Greece happy and independent; for, if independent, she must be essentially free and strong. He hoped every effort would be made to connect her with every other power of Europe, and particularly from her maritime interests to form a permanent connexion with this country. If any efforts had been made to cramp and limit the power of Greece, he should rejoice that those efforts failed. With regard to Portugal, he could not feel so content, after what he had heard from the noble secretary opposite. More information was due to parliament and to the public, yet it was not to be granted till measures should be adopted which would render it no longer useful; that he was not quite so satisfied to learn. He was happy to hear that it was the intention of government to carry on the work, and to effect all possible reductions; he did not question that the noble duke would persevere in a course which he had already commenced, and in which he might depend upon re-

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ceiving the support of those who were not connected with the government, and in which he would be entitled to the support of every person both in and out of parliament to the last farthing which he should propose to reduce consistent with the safety of the country. This was a subject upon which men of every party and every theory were united; without waiting, therefore, for any of those other remedies which might be proposed, let him continue the reformation already begun in the public expenditure, and he would receive more credit with the country than from any, other measure whatsoever. With respect to Ireland, he wished the House had heard from high authority that the great measure, adopted in the last session of parliament, had been attended with that degree of success which, notwithstanding that distress prevailed, had still been productive of most happy consequences in that part of the United Kingdom.
On the question whether the words proposed to be left out should stand part of the original motion, the numbers were— Content 71; Not Content 9; Majority against the Amendment 62.

List of the Minority against the Address.

Dukes.

Tankerville,

Cumberland,

Winchilsea,

Richmond,

Radnor.

Newcastle.

Lords.

Earls.

Rivers,

Stanhope,

Northwich.

LORD STANHOPE'S PROTEST.
The following protest was entered in their Lordships Journal next day:
DISSENTIENT.—1. Because it is the bounden duty of parliament to examine the causes of public distress, and, as far as may be in its power, to administer speedy and effectual relief.
2. Because the grievous distress which now affects the country in many branches of productive industry, appears to be the result of legislative measures, and might, therefore, be relieved, if not altogether removed, by a different course of policy, particularly with respect to the currency, as the alteration in its value has greatly increased the weight of all the public burthens, and of all the private engagements which existed previously to that alteration.
3. Because the relief which ought to be administered cannot be delayed without injury and, injustice, and also without
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danger to the country, of which the welfare must be destroyed, and of which the tranquillity might be disturbed by a continuance of the distress which is now suffered.
STANHOPE,
RICHMOND (for the 1st and 3rd reasons.)