Lords Sitting of 14 May 1827

VOTE OF THANKS TO THE ARMY IN INDIA.
Lord Goderichin pursuance of the notice which he had given, rose for the purpose of proposing to their lordships to pass a Vote of Thanks to the Army and Navy of England, which had been recently employed in the eastern hemisphere; and if it was now some time since the period when their lordships used to be called upon, almost annually, to testify the sense which they entertained of the invaluable services which the fleets and armies of his majesty rendered to the country, it was impossible that their lordships should not recollect, that the very infrequency of these motions resulted from the peace, which was itself the result of the unparalleled successes, for which their lordships had been called upon to express their gratitude. He felt it to be impossible for him to discharge the duty which he had to-day to perform, of proposing to their lordships to thank the army in India, without recollecting, with no ordinary degree of pride and satisfaction,

767
that it fell to his lot, at the termination of that war, to be one of those individuals who were selected by the other House of Parliament to convey their thanks to a great and illustrious duke, whom they thought it an honour to themselves to thank for the services which he had rendered to his country; and he was persuaded, that there was no man in their lordships' house, or in the country, who would join with him with greater sincerity, in asking parliament to express their sense of the services of the army in India than that noble duke himself; particularly when he recollected, that the theatre where those services were performed was the theatre where the illustrious duke first unsheathed that sword which had flashed so many years in terror to the enemies, and in glory to the friends, of this country. He felt it his duty to make these preliminary observations, as an act of justice to that noble individual; and he should now proceed to submit to their lordships the grounds upon which he thought they were called upon to pass their approbation; and in doing so he should not advert to any of those political topics connected with the cause and origin of the war against the Burmese, or the attack upon the fortress of Bhurtpore. It was manifestly desirable to abstain from topics which had a tendency to disturb that unanimity which was most desirable in cases of this kind, and which certainly added no ordinary grace to the thanks of parliament. The circumstances which led to the operations conducted by sir Archibald Campbell against the Burmese, originated a considerable time before the government of India felt called upon to resort to actual hostilities; and it was impossible that they should not feel, that they were about to undertake operations of no ordinary difficulty. The country was entirely unknown, and communication was exceedingly difficult. The only mode for our troops to strike a decisive blow against the enemy, and capture the capital, was by availing themselves of the course of the great river which led from the capital to Rangoon. Although the nature of the enemy's country was unknown, this circumstance was perfectly known—that the people were warlike and resolute men, who had a very high sense of their own importance, and of their own means. It was impossible, therefore, that the operations of our troops could be attended with immediate success, in a country where great
768
difficulties were opposed to the movements of the troops. However, as soon as a hostile feeling was shown on the part of the Burmese, the most active preparations were made to take the field. And it was impossible for language to convey in sufficiently strong terms the efforts made by sir Thomas Monro, the head of the government of Madras; in which presidency the main body of the troops was collected, who were drawn from great distances with the utmost rapidity. But the merit of the praise was not due to sir Thomas Monro alone, who brought the troops together; for there were few circumstances under which the native troops had so signalized themselves, and their conduct gave a character to that portion of the forces of the East India company, which was beyond all praise, and which was, in a military point of view, of no ordinary interest; for their lordships well knew the aversion which the native troops felt to operations of such a kind; besides which, a superstitious feeling prevailed among them with respect to the fortress of Bhurtpore. Most of the native troops had been brought from distances of many hundred miles; some from a distance of a thousand miles, and yet there were no more than two individuals who had not embarked with their corps. The first operations of the army were directed against Rangoon; and, though the enemy had not the means of making a defence of that position, yet our troops found it impossible to advance a single step without opposition. The enemy knew the strength of his own country, availed himself of his own resources, and kept up that desultory warfare, which exposed our troops to every privation, and made the effects of climate still more destructive. The skill which the enemy displayed in the defence of his country manifested no ordinary degree of capacity, bearing on defensive warfare. Nothing, however, could withstand the attack of our troops. Every inch of ground was contested, step by step, in personal conflicts between man and man; and in every instance our troops were successful, and the result was the entire dispersion of the force which the enemy could collect, and his ultimately suing for peace. But he ought to advert—indeed, it would be gross injustice to another branch of the service if he did not advert—to the advantageous co-operation of the naval force, without

769
the assistance of which it would have been totally impossible for the land operations to have succeeded. The supplies could never have been carried up, but for the facilities the river afforded; which were not, however, without countervailing difficulties. The river was navigated by vessels of the enemy, denominated war-boats; and, if there had not been a competent naval force, directed by that energy which had always characterized the British navy, that naval force of the Burmese would have rendered unsuccessful the operations of the troops. However great might be his opinion of the services of the army, he was hound to manifest the same feeling with respect to the co-operations of the navy. He did not think it necessary for him to trouble their lordships by going into details, or by mentioning, in particular, the names of individuals. Those names were contained in the motions; and would find, in the records of their lordships' House, a testimony which was far beyond the transitory eulogium which so humble an individual as himself might presume to pass. With respect to the fortress of Bhurtpore, those persons who had not applied their minds to subjects of this kind, might, at first view, think it not deserving the attention of their lordships, that a small and isolated fortress should have been captured after a regular siege and assault: but there were some circumstances connected with that fortress, which gave it no ordinary importance in the eyes of the government of India, and the successful assault of that position fully deserved their lordships' thanks. That fortress had always been considered in India as a very strong place, and had, twenty years ago, successfully resisted a vigorous attack made upon it; and the failure of that, attempt had inspired the natives with such a conviction of its strength, or rather such a superstitious belief that it was invulnerable, as made it acquire in their eyes the greatest importance, and rendered it the rallying point of every person hostile to the Indian government. It was impossible to say what the consequences would have been, of either leaving that fortress in the possession of the rajah, or of failing in the attempt which had been made. He could say, with perfect truth and justice, that the preparations made to ensure the certainty of success were only equalled by the attack. An attack was made upon
770
the fortress by sir Edward Paget, and afterwards by lord Combermere, when the accumulated number of troops and artillery made success infallible. It was of no inconsiderable importance, and the circumstance was a strong proof of the judgment with which the attack was planned, that, when every thing was prepared, and the batteries erected, not a moment was lost in giving them their full effect; and, in the course of a few weeks, this mighty, and hitherto considered impregnable, fortress was taken by assault, though defended by the greatest vigour and bravery. After the loss of four thousand men, the enemy was under the necessity of surrendering this key-stone of their strength, and of yielding up a fortress of the greatest importance to the security of our empire in the east. He was afraid he had detained their lordships too long; but he hoped they were too ready to do justice to the efforts of their countrymen, not to pardon the weakness of his eulogium. He now begged leave to move, "That the thanks of the House should be given to lord Combermere, Commander-in-chief of the forces in India, for the zeal and meritorious conduct he displayed in commanding the troops employed in the attack upon Bhurtpore, and particularly for the judgment with which he planned the assault upon that fortress, the success of which has been highly valuable to the reputation of the British arms." He likewise moved votes of thanks, similar to those passed in the House of Commons on Tuesday last, to the different officers and men, and to the army and navy.
The Duke of Wellingtonsaid, he did not mean to enter into the details which his noble friend had gone into, but he hoped it would noble deemed presumptuous in him to offer a few words on the occasion, particularly when their lordships considered the relation in which he stood to the officers and troops employed in India. If he had had no other motive for addressing their lordships, he should have been induced to do so by the kind remarks of his noble friend, who had attached more merit to him than his services deserved. With respect to Bhurtpore, his noble friend had acquainted their lordships with that superstitious notion which invested the fortress with impregnability; and he had also informed their lordships of the attack which had been made on it twenty years ago. It was only justice to the

771
governor of India to observe, that he had prepared the way for the success of lord Combermere, and had displayed the greatest anxiety, that means sufficient for the purpose should be placed under his command. This justice was due to the governor-general; but he must also say, that no time was lost in beginning operations. His noble friend, lord Combermere, had lost no time in joining the army on his arrival in India, and had travelled upwards of a thousand miles in ten days, in order that he might begin the operations at a proper season. He had commenced those operations, and carried them on, with that vigour and activity which ensured their success; and had closed them by a military feat which had never been surpassed by any army upon any occasion. With respect to the operations in Ava, he must say, that little more was known of that country than its name. The Indian government knew nothing of the climate, nor of the nature of the government or the people. They knew nothing respecting its military force, or of any of those circumstances which would enable a man to form a plan of military operations, or found any notion in what way to proceed to carry on a war. The government knew nothing of the topography or geography of the country. Under these circumstances, sir A. Campbell went to Rangoon with his army, at the commencement of the rainy season; and it was not, therefore, to be wondered at, that the operations should have excited so much anxiety and doubts as to their termination. The army found that every animal had been driven out of the country; and every man suffered under great privations, in consequence of the want of provisions. It was not possible to describe the nature of those privations which the troops had suffered; and which were aggravated by the climate of the country. The officers and troops had, however, borne all these privations, and encountered every difficulty, with the greatest cheerfulness; and, after vanquishing a numerous enemy, brought the contest to an end honourable to this country, by that which he hoped would be a lasting peace. Under these circumstances, he conceived there never had been an occasion upon which their lordships had been called upon to express their approbation, where it was better deserved.
The Earl of Carlislethought, after the satisfactory testimony which had just been
772
borne to the services of those troops whom it was proposed to thank, it might be deemed presumptuous in him to attempt to follow up that testimony by any expression of his sentiments; but, having formerly held a situation, however subordinate, connected with the affairs of India, he felt anxious to offer his humble tribute of applause to those important services rendered by the capture of Bhurtpore; the conquest of which would, he trusted, secure permanent peace to that part of the British empire. But if their lordships admired the gallantry which led to that conquest, they ought, in a still greater degree, to admire the cool and collected courage, the patient and enduring spirit, which animated the army, and preserved its energy, until the time for action arrived, when they pursued a new enemy in a new country, hunted him from his recesses, and finally dictated the terms of peace at a short distance from his capital. He thought that praise was due, not only to the military, but to the naval force. He had no wish to create any difference of opinion; but he could have wished, that the name of the governor-general, who had so ably made every preparation for the war, might have been inserted in the thanks of the House. He perfectly understood the distinction drawn by his noble friend; but he regretted that the noble lord who presided over the government in India had been subject to unfounded misrepresentations, though he trusted that his noble friend would answer those misrepresentations satisfactorily to his country, by two expressive words—Ava and Bhurtpore.
The Earl of Morleythought that, considering the patient and enduring spirit of the army, it would be difficult to select an occasion upon which the tribute of national gratitude was more deserved. Though he felt, with his noble friend, that it would not be strictly within the usage of parliament to express, in a separate motion, the sense they entertained of the civil government of India, still he thought it would be an act of gross injustice, if he did not advert to the firmness and wisdom of those councils which gave energy to our armies. The votes of thanks were restricted to the operations in Ava and against Bhurtpore; but it did not appear by any thing in those motions, that the one operation was not subsequent to the other, and that the resources of the one were not transferred to the other. Such, however,

773
was not the case. It was during the most trying period of the operations in Ava, that the enterprise against Bhurtpore became urgent; and government so admirably managed their resources, that they were enabled to equip and send into the field an army, fully adequate to the purposes for which it was formed. He thought great praise was due to the governor-general for his firmness and wisdom, without which the capture of Bhurtpore would never have taken place. Great as had been the success against Bhurtpore, and the advantages derived from it, that noble lord was as slow to claim merit for those advantages, as he was before ready to repel those charges brought against him, during the continuance of the military operations. Grievous were the forebodings, and grievous the complaints, against that noble lord during the prosecution of the war. It was now, indeed, generally acknowledged, that at the time that noble lord arrived in India, the question of going to war with Ava was no longer an open question; and such was the determination of the government of Ava to measure their forces with us in the field, that a few months of feverish repose were the most that could be expected.
The Earl of Harrowbysaid, that after the observations that had been made, he considered it necessary for some member of government to declare, that the glorious results of the war were not only attributable to the valour of our troops, but to the judgment and discretion of the governor-general. The only reason why the noble lord had not been included in the vote of thanks was, that it was not usual that thanks should be voted to the civil officers of the state. The only occasion in which that usage had been departed from, was in the instance of a noble relative of the noble duke, who had, to a certain extent, adopted the military character, by placing himself at the head of the expedition. He begged to declare, in the most unqualified manner, that great merit was due to the noble lord at the head of the government: for it was not only the valour of our troops, but the firmness and judgment of the noble lord, which had secured to the country such brilliant success. The noble lord had already received from the hand of his sovereign a splendid mark of his approbation; and if any thing could add to the gratification, it would be the sentiments expressed by their lordships on the present occasion, especially by the noble duke.
774
The resolutions were agreed to, nem. dis.

NEW ADMINISTRATION—Foreign Missions.
The Marquis of Londonderrysaid, that, after the debate on Thursday last—after the extraordinary eulogium that they had heard on a right hon. gentleman, —after the unanswerable speech they had heard from a noble earl who sat behind him, detailing the proceedings by which that gentleman had succeeded, and which seemed to amount to a kind of conspiracy, —after all the display of that person's consistency—he felt that he must again claim their lordships' indulgence, while he stated the reasons which induced him to bring forward the motion which he was induced to press; not imputing to the noble lords opposite any improper distribution of the funds intrusted to their charge, not with any view of finding fault with the expenditure, or the persons who had received it, or with any expectation of displacing them, but merely to show the different state of the Foreign Office in the year 1822 and at the present period. If his noble friend opposite would declare, that the present government was to be the permanent government, he would at once cease to press this or any other motion on the subject; but, unless he received some assurance on the point, he felt it his duty to call on noble lords to declare whether they meant to carry on the business of the country to the conclusion of the session, under all its present disadvantages—to call on his noble friend to answer how long that disgusting—for that was the phrase now—that disgusting concubinage was to last. He would ask the reverend bench if they were a party to the settlement of the affairs?—if they were the advisers of the noble marquis, as one of the high contracting parties? He would ask the reverend bench this, as they were the guardians of our morals and our virtues. The noble marquis was an old stager; he was no green-horn in politics; but he would tell him, that before he had brought the victim of his seduction to his embrace, he might be thrown aside, after defaming the character of his victim. He should like to know from the learned lord on the woolsack, if, after such a breach of promise in another place, an action would lie. In point of conscience he would say, the conduct was such as to put it out of the power of the individual to get compensation. He would again appeal to the right

775
reverend bench, whether what was stated in the Treasury journals respecting a further accession of recruits was correct; or whether the present noble lords were only holding their offices as trustees who were to be brought in alliance to bear on the important question of Catholic emancipation? He would tell his noble friend opposite, as well as the noble marquis, with regard to that great and important question, that he had always been its most zealous supporter; but he would not suffer that measure to be carried by any sinister means; knowing, as he did, the sentiments of the highest person [order, order] on that subject. With respect to the present provisional government, it was notorious, that several of the offices were not filled up. We had no Judge Advocate; no Commissioners of Woods and Forests; no Master of the Mint—that very important office, without which the Treasury could not be as well filled as it should be. He should like to know from those gentlemen, the editors of the daily press, what was intended by the remarks that had been made on the subject in a paper which he had seen—
"My speech on Canning's master mind Involves a great mistake you'll find. Please to correct this gross misprint, For master mind, read Master Mint."
The noble marquis proceeded to refer to the resignations of six of his majesty's ministers. He pronounced a warm eulogium on the duke of Wellington, dwelling on the fact of his grace having been selected for various foreign missions of importance; and contended, that the God of War and not the God of Chicane, ought to be the director of his majesty's councils. The circumstances of the late changes were, he said, before their lordships and the country. On them he should rest the question, leaving it to the sense of the country to decide whether this juggle, as he would call it, was not a disgrace to the House and the country. The noble marquis concluded by moving, "That a return be laid on the table of the House, of all appointments at home or abroad connected with the Foreign-office, from the 5th Jan. 1817, to the 5th Jan. 1827; specifying the name, situation, salaries, and allowances, including his majesty's ambassadors, ministers, and consuls; specifying all such appointments as are held by one and the same person; with the total expense of the whole department: distinguishing each
776
year, and the number of regular and special missions."
Lord Dudley and Wardsaid, that one thing only he could gather from the speeches of the noble lord, and others who had addressed the House in the same strain, on former occasions; namely, that he and they entertained a strong feeling of dislike towards the right hon. gentleman whom the king had been pleased to place at the head of his government. No other fact but that, was he able to make out from the speech of the noble lord. He had sat a good many years in parliament, and had seen many Oppositions—right or wrong, he had taken part in some of them. Those Oppositions were formed on various grounds; but some public principle was always involved in their construction. The present period, however, presented the only example to be found in the history of this country, of an Opposition founded on no one public principle, but merely on personal antipathy to the prime minister. The noble lord had alluded to the peculiar situation in which he supposed that he (lord Dudley and Ward), and some other individuals in the Administration, stood. Upon that point he certainly had no personal desire for concealment. He would willingly—as far as he himself was concerned—tell the noble lord all he knew on the subject; but when he was publicly interrogated, he must, on public grounds, refuse to answer. It was frequently the custom of parliament to address the king to dismiss his ministers on specific grounds, such as their incapacity, or the dangerous nature of their policy; but this was the first time in the history of the country, that any minister had been called upon to declare how long the king, his master, would choose to employ him, and how long he intended to serve his Sovereign. No such question, he believed, had ever been asked before; and most certainly he would not be the first minister to answer it [hear]. With respect to the papers moved for, he had formerly told the noble lord, when he gave notice of his intention to move for them, that there was no disposition on the part of government to withhold any information on the subject. The only doubt which had been entertained was, as to whether the information could conveniently be produced in the shape in which it was called for; and also whether it could be produced consistently with the just prerogatives of the Crown. Having

777
made inquiries upon those two points, and having found that no objection existed on either ground, he had no hesitation in acceding to the motion.
Lord Kingsaid, he agreed perfectly with the noble marquis in the present motion. It happened to be just such a one as he had himself formerly submitted to the House, with a view to obtain information. He had then shown, from the parliamentary returns, that the whole expense of ambassadors formerly amounted to 75,000 l.; but on the new scale in 1816, it had increased to 133,000 l.: the whole expense of secretaries of legation in 1815 amounted to 5,000 l, which was subsequently increased to 33,000 l. The charge for consuls amounted to 9,000 l. which in one year was advanced to 30,000 l. Disbursements to foreign ministers and extraordinaries, 50,000 l which in 1815 increased to 145,000 l. and presents to foreign ministers, 36,000 l., making in all a total of 424,000 l. expense in one year; while, in a former period, the whole expense did not exceed 120,000 l. On looking at the different items, he found lord Castlereagh's expenses amounted to 21,106 l. In addition to lord Stewart's salary of 7,000 l., his lordship charged 5,134 l. for contingent expenses, besides 6,538 l. for losses by exchange, and 4,790 l. for the journey to Mantua. The sum paid to lord Cathcart was 4,100 l. besides 6,900, for extraordinary expenses. Then the various sums paid to the several Russian ministers amounted to 12,195 l; which, he supposed, were the fees of admission to the Holy Alliance. With respect to the salaries of the consuls, he could not help thinking, that the increase was injurious to the country. Before the arrangement for paying them out of the consolidated fund was formed, the pay of foreign ministers was not deemed worthy of the attention of parliament; but that was not the case subsequently. He thought that arrangement extremely prejudicial to the public service, because it held forth a bounty to extravagance. Neither was it for the advantage of the regular professional men in the diplomatic department, that this increase of expense had taken place; for, since then, the men were not so much made for the offices as the offices for the men. His lordship, after referring to the appointment of Mr. Eden, Mr. Harris, Mr. Fitzherbert, and others, to situations of this description,
778
observed, that if the House looked to the results of this increase, they would find that England possessed more influence in Europe while she pursued a system of moderate expense, than since she had adopted one of greater extravagance. In illustration of this, he referred their lordships to the state of British influence in Holland in 1808; and, subsequently, in Italy and the north of Germany. We had thought proper to sacrifice all the lesser states to two or three larger ones. We had sacrificed Geneva, the whole of Italy, Norway.—In short, the entire influence of this country in Europe we had sacrificed to three or four great powers. The consequences of this expenditure were more deplorable than any result which had ever flowed from the application of any sums of money within his knowledge. The noble marquis did not go back far enough; he should have gone as far back as 1815 and 1816, and not confined himself to 1817. The noble marquis had alluded to what he was pleased to designate "a disgusting concubinage"—the construction of the present ministry, which he seemed to regard as a kind of political minotaur —"monstrum horrendum informe"—an unformed monster—an abortion of a monster. But the noble marquis was too meek and gentle with these monsters. He should have taken a lesson from a rev. gentleman who, at a late meeting, expressed a wish that he had a hundred hands, like Briareus of old, and a sledgehammer in every hand, that he might beat down that monster the Roman Catholic religion. He would recommend the noble lords opposite, many of whom were young men, to attack the present cabinet with a hundred sledge hammers, and thus knock the monster to pieces. He did not know whether any of the other noble lords would bring forward the motions which they had threatened, but he rather thought they would not. However, he hoped his majesty's ministers would not be frightened by a few trifling words. They had nothing to fear from the noble lords; who would find that they had overloaded their pieces, and if they attempted to fire them, they would recoil upon themselves.
The Earl of Malmesburysaid, that in the times to which the noble lord referred, the salaries of diplomatic situations were unequal to the expenses of the office, and those who filled them were obliged to draw upon their private fortunes to meet

779
them. It had, therefore, become absosolutely necessary that an increase should take place. With respect to the change in the mode of paying consuls, he did not think it an advisable one. He should have preferred their drawing their remuneration from the mercantile world; but even then they required, that that remuneration should be increased.
The Earl of Darnleywas sorry to see the noble marquis continuing that species of attack on the ministry, of which he had intimated his intention on a former night. He was quite sure that the motives which actuated the noble marquis were perfectly pure; but, at the same time, he would recommend to him to wait until the government was guilty of something which should call for parliamentary animadversion. He could not but lament, that another noble friend of his, who ended the discussion on a former night, was not present; because he wished to take that opportunity of making a few remarks, which he could not have attempted after such a speech as that which their lordships had heard from his noble friend, to command their lordships' attention. So long as the opposition to ministers was confined to the bitterness of disappointment, or personal animosity, he thought it ought to have no weight; and, in some cases, it only proved the truth of the assertion, that dulness was the natural enemy of genius. If he had any personal feelings of hostility towards the head of his majesty's government, he would not suffer them to interfere with his duty to his country: but he had known that right hon. gentleman ever since they had been at school together, and had always felt a just pride in his brilliant career. However, he did not stand there to vindicate every passage in his right hon. friend's political life; on the contrary, there were some in it, of which he could not approve. But, feeling the situation into which his sovereign was forced by those who had lately enjoyed his confidence—knowing that his right hon. friend had been called on to form a cabinet—and approving, in common with his noble friends, of those liberal sentiments which that right hon. individual entertained, he had no hesitation in declaring, that he would give him all the support in his power. But there was a wide difference between supporting a minister, and taking office under him; to do the former he had no hesitation;
780
but, as to the latter, he confessed there were great difficulties. The circumstances were certainly somewhat untoward, and rendered the acceptance of office very different from giving support to government; but, he must add, that circumstances had occurred, since parliament had last met, which very much removed his scruples on that point. The moderation of the Roman Catholics, and their confidence in their friends on the one hand, and the factious violence (so he must call it) of the present Opposition on the other, had reconciled him to the acceptance of office by his noble friends. He thought the noble marquis (Lansdown) the fittest person to lead the councils of this country, if any change took place. He was quite sure that his noble friend never could do any thing which had not for its object the promotion of the best interests of the country. He had heard something of a vulgar desire of office: he was perfectly satisfied of the utter impossibility of his noble friend being actuated by any such desire. The only motive that governed his mind was derived from the conviction that, by accepting office, his services might be useful to his country. He must apply the word "factious" to the Opposition of the noble lords. Now, a noble earl had given notice of a motion, which was certainly done with a view to embarrass the government. That noble earl was a decided enemy to Catholic emancipation, and, as he must know, from the results of the repeated discussions of that question, that such a motion would only end in rejection, his object in bringing it forward at this moment could only be to embarrass the government; and, therefore, it justified the application of the term factious. Not that he believed the noble earl to be of a factious disposition; but this showed how much the judgment of a man the least likely to indulge in such feelings, might sometimes be warped by particular circumstances.—It was not his business, if his majesty had placed confidence in the present ministry, to inquire how long it would continue; and, although he had heard the term "rubbish" applied to those of whom it was composed, he saw no reason why they should not carry on the government of the country with advantage to the nation. He rejoiced, that there was at length a prospect of those principles, under the operation of which the country had suffered so much,

781
being removed—principles which had been adverse to every species of amelioration, with the exception, indeed, of those professed by the right hon. gentleman why had filled the office of Secretary of State for the Home Department. But, since he had heard from report, of the eagerness of that right hon. gentleman to join in what he could not help again designating as a faction, he considered him as having degraded himself by such a junction. It was the duty of every friend to those liberal principles which his majesty's government professed, to give them all the support in his power.
The Earl of Longfordsaid, that the noble earl had described the conduct of the Irish Roman Catholics as being extremely moderate. He should only say, that if they were moderate, they had concealed their moderation under so perfect a mask that he could not perceive it. He had witnessed many acts, on the part of the Catholics, the reverse of moderation. The noble earl had applied the term "factious" to those who opposed the present administration. Now, he could not submit to have such an epithet applied to those who conceived it to be their duty to oppose an administration so constructed. The noble lord had said, that at no time had he witnessed such an Opposition. To which he would answer, that at no time had he witnessed a government composed of such ingredients, and so utterly unworthy of confidence. If a steam-engine of a hundred horsepower were employed to force together the most dissonant particles, and unite them into an administration, it could not produce a more discordant combination of persons, diametrically opposed to each other in principle. Such were the persons by whom they were to be governed; and, because they declined to support them until they knew by which of those Opposite principles they were to be so governed, they were designated a factious opposition. A noble friend of his had dropped the word "rubbish," as applied to this administration. Now, when he repeated the term, he only meant it to describe a mass of materials, heaped together without any common foundation, and formed into a fabric which was only to be held together by the agency of Roman cement. All that could be expected from such a fabric was, that it might please the eye and suit the taste for a little time. Could
782
it be expected that they could hold together a building composed chiefly of the quicksands of political inconsistency, and of the destructive mountain torrent of revolutionary desolation? [a laugh].
Lord Melvilleobserved that, his noble friend had said, that his right hon. friend, the late Secretary for the Home Department, had embarked with his late colleagues in a factious opposition to his majesty's government. He could assure the noble earl that he was misinformed on that subject. That right hon. gentleman, if he could believe that the principles of those individuals who had seceded from the ministry were to be abandoned, would then, indeed, be found opposed to the measures of that government; but, while the government, continued to be conducted on those principles upon which it had heretofore been carried on, his right hon. friend would not be found in the ranks of Opposition.
The Earl of Darnleyin explanation, said, that the right hon. gentleman had certainly exhibited a wish to oppose the present government; but it appeared that he had since become ashamed of his associates ["No, no," from lord Melville.] He was happy to be set right; as he had no wish to misrepresent.
Lord Goderichsaid, he was prepared, so far as his own opinion and belief were concerned, to confirm all that had been stated by the noble lord, with respect to his right hon. friend. He had no reason to suppose that his right hon. friend did now contemplate, or ever had contemplated, any thing which merited the name of a factious opposition to the government. Unless he could suppose that his right hon. friend was insincere in all he said, he must believe that he entertained intirely opposite views on the subject. If, however, it should he found that he (lord Goderich), or any of those individuals who now constituted the government, and who had recently not felt themselves called upon to reject the invitation which was offered them to continue to form part of the king's council—if it should be found that they abandoned the principles on which they had hitherto acted—they would indeed abdicate their honour, and cover themselves with disgrace, and would merit not only to lose the confidence of parliament, but to be visited with its disapprobation. If certain individuals, who had watched and approved of the conduct pursued for some years past, not alone by the minis-

783
ters who remained in the government, but conjointly with others who formed part of the late administration, and with whose perfect concurrence measures had been introduced which were deemed essential to the best interests of the country—if those individuals, seeing the critical situation in which he and his colleagues were placed, and the difficulties which surrounded them, could reconcile it to their honour and character (and he had no right to suppose they could not) to give them their support, why, in God's name, was that to be made a reproach either to them or to the administration? Why should it not be supposed, that both parties acted for the honour of the king, and the good of the country, and not for any mean, miserable, and contemptible purpose?
The motion was agreed to.