Lords Sitting of 22 March 1827

CORN AND WOOL TRADE.
The Earl of Malmesburyrose to move for some returns with respect to the Importation of
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Wool. Two of the returns were similar to what had before been moved for by a noble lord; but the other was not comprehended among those that had been laid upon their lordships' table. In making this motion he wished to say a few words. Their lordships were aware, that a great deal of distress existed at present among the wool-growers, the accumulation of whose stock, for the last three years, remained on their hands, the value of which had sunk from 16 d. to 8d. per pound. Perhaps their lordships might not be equally aware of the cause of this distress. One cause, he thought, was the reduction of the duty on the importation of foreign wool. At the time that reduction took place, it was generally considered to be a financial duty, and not a protecting one. But, if their lordships looked to the quantity of wool introduced into this country during the five years, from April, 1819, to September, 1824, they would find, that the quantity of foreign wool imported amounted, on the average, to twenty-one millions, at a duty of 6d. Since the year 1824, at which period the duty was reduced from 6d. to a half-penny—a reduction at once of 11–12ths—the increase in. the importation of wool amounted to seven or eight million pounds. Such being the case, it was impossible not to see the cause which produced the distress among the wool-growers. But the interest of the wool-growers was not a particular one; or one which was confined to themselves. Wool and corn were connected together; one depended upon the other. Large and fertile districts depended entirely upon the subsistence of the farmers flocks. He hoped that when their lordships took into consideration the measure which had been proposed upon the Corn-laws, they would also take into consideration the distressed state of the agriculturists, with respect to the wool-trade. Their lordships might form a just opinion, from seeing what had been the result of a foreign competition in the article of wool what was likely to be the result of the same competition in the corn trade. So long as the duty on wool continued to be 6d. the growers found a market for their wool; but as soon as that duty was reduced, the greatest distress followed. The glut produced by the importation of foreign wool had been so great, as to produce an accumulation of two or three years' growth of wool in the

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hands of individuals. With this before their eyes, he trusted their lordships would hesitate before they adopted the resolutions on the Corn-laws, and allowed the foreigner to come into competition with the British fanner in the corn-trade, as had been done in the wool-trade. He considered the wool-grower as much a manufacturer as the clothier. He must find capital, and the means of subsistence. On looking at the Consolidated Customs act, he found that as long as wool should be at the price of 1s., the duty on the importation of foreign wool should not exceed a half-penny, which gave a protection to the British grower of about four per cent. Wool in a manufactured state, however, he found to be protected by a duty of fifteen per cent. It certainly did seem, from that difference, that the clothier must have some stronger claims to protection than the wool-grower; but upon looking to the returns on the subject of the poor-rates for the years 1825 and 1826, he found that the poor-rates levied upon landlords amounted to 4,892,000 l. while the amount of poor-rates levied on manufacturers was only 259,000 l. So that it was clear that 24 l. out of 25 l. was paid by the landed interest. Looking at those returns, he could not find in them a reason for the disproportion of the duties upon wool in its simple state, and wool when manufactured. It appeared to him, that the disproportion ought to be in the inverse ratio to what it was; and that the man who bore the greatest burthens ought not to be the worst, protected. It was a most unjust principle, as it operated on the one and the other. Perhaps their lordships were not aware of the extraordinary rate of the increase of the importation of wool, since the red notion of the duty. The importation of wool amounted, in the year 1824, to 19,378,000 pounds; in 1825 to 22,558,000 pounds; and in the year 1826 to 43,795,000. From that period he might say the wool-trade had been completely ruined; and if such had been the case with respect to wool, which formed only a portion of the farmer's profit, any similar measure, with respect to the Corn-laws must necessarily cause universal ruin. In Mr. Jacob's Report it was stated, that great exertions were making in Germany, with a view of raising wool; and that prodigious increase in the quantity of wool had taken place in that country. If that was the case, it
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could only end, in his opinion, in putting a termination to the cultivation of short wool in this country. At the time the duty on wool was lowered from 6d. to one halfpenny, it was stated that, in consideration of the reduction, a bounty should be given to the landlords. And, what was this great bounty, did their lordships suppose? It was, that the farmers should be allowed to export long wool, the amount of which did not exceed 90 tods. That was the only bounty which had been given, in return for the reduction of the duty on the importation of wool. He had no wish to injure the manufacturer. He was aware that the manufacturer could not continue to work wool without a mixture of foreign wool. He was ready to give a full proportion of foreign wool to the manufacturer for that purpose; and even to give him protection against the introduction of worked wool; but he wished the protection to be equal, and perhaps the noble lord opposite (Bexley) would tell him the reason why the protection was not better proportioned. It was a singular fact, that with this great increase in the importation of wool, there had not been an accompanying increase in the exportation of manufactured wool. So that, instead of the foreigner taking manufactures from this country in exchange for this produce he took nothing but money. So great had been the increase of the quantity of wool in the home market, that the landlords had got as much as three years produce on their hands; and it was a great hardship on the farmer, having so much wool of his own, to look at his coat, and think that it was made of foreign wool. He apologized to their lordships for having taken up so much of their time, and he now begged leave to move for the returns he wished to be laid upon the table. Two of these returns had been moved for before in point of fact, but not in point of time; those on the table only going back to 1814, while those which he wished to move for went back to 1800. The noble lord then moved for a "Return of the quantity of sheep and lamb's wool imported into this country since the year 1800 to 1824 inclusive; distinguishing the quantities of each year, and the countries from which wool was imported." That motion came up to the time when the duty was lowered. The next return be should move for was, to show their

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lordships whether the British consumer was benefitted by the new principles of free trade, as applicable to the woollen-trade. He should therefore move, for "An account of the official and declared value of woollen manufactures from 1810 to 1826." The next return he should move for was, "an account of the quantity of foreign wool exported since the year 1821 to 1826, distinguishing each year."
Lord Bexleysaid, that the noble lord appeared to him to be greatly deceived in one respect. The noble lord seemed to argue upon this question as if it was one which was founded on a new principle, and as if the encouragement of the importation of foreign wool was a novel system in this country. In the time of our ancestors that encouragement had been curried to a much greater extent than it was at present; we were only returning, therefore, to the system that formerly prevailed. The present system he believed would be found much more advantageous to the growers of wool, than that which existed immediately previous to it; and he must bring to the recollection of the noble lord, that the change took place in consequence of applications and petitions on the subject from the wool-growers themselves, who were allowed by it to export their long wool. The manufacturers, he believed, had nothing to fear from the exportation of wool. England was still by far the best market for wool, and not only kept at home its own produce, but attracted to its market a large proportion of the produce of other countries.
The Duke of Richmondfelt himself bound to say a few words on this subject, upon which he had presented a number of petitions from the county of Sussex. As to the observation that had been made, that wool had been left on the hands of the grower, from the permission to import for the good of the manufacturers, he could only say, that that was one of the experiments of the free-trade gentlemen. It had, however, failed; and now they attempted to put a gloss over it. He hoped and trusted that the noble earl who had moved for these returns, would call the attention of the House to this important subject. He could not believe that it was beneficial to this country to allow a foreign grower to send us his produce. He thought it would be best for this country to go back to its former system.
Lord Kingstated, that the noble mover had made out what he thought a very strong case against free trade. He had expected to have heard the noble lord (Bexley)—if he was a friend to the general interests of the country, and a real friend to free trade—observe, that though there might have been some distress among the agriculturists, there had been great distress among the manufacturers; and that a higher duty, preventing the importation of wool, would not have diminished the distress of the agriculturists, but would have added greatly to the distress of the manufacturers. It had been stated, that some of the wool remained on the hands of the growers. Perhaps that might be the case; but then the noble lord on the ministerial bench might have asked, whether the importation of wool continued? seeing that, if it did, it was because the wool was worked up. He had expected the noble lord, if he was a friend to the general interests of the country, to have made use of those arguments. If ministers did not defend the manufacturers, their interest would assuredly be neglected.
The Earl of Darnleywas for giving protection both to the growers of corn and wool. The growers of wool laboured under grievous hardships. They had two years of their stock on hand. Now, such a state of things ought not to exist. It was a gross injustice to that class of the community, and no adequate advantage to the manufacturers.
The Marquis of Salisburysaid, he had not intended to trouble their lordships with any observations on the subject, if a noble baron had not attempted to set in opposition the agricultural and manufacturing interests, by stating, that the one was sacrificed for the sake of the other. ["No," from lord King.] If the noble lord thought that the two interests were connected, he was sorry he had mistaken him. With respect to the question before their lordships, he must say, that when the farmers had two years produce in hand, and were unable to sell, except at a ruinous price, and when the foreigner was pouring his produce into this country, and taking nothing in return but money—he must say, that if such a state of things was prosperous to the country, then was the present period most prosperous.
The Duke of Buckinghamsaid, he should go to a different part of the question; namely, the proposed alteration in

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the Corn-laws. The House was in a very particular situation with respect to the discussion of that subject. After several sessions, during which the subject had been put off year after year, it at last seemed that no time was to be lost in putting the question at rest, and enabling the country to know at what price corn was to be grown. Resolutions had been moved elsewhere, which were to be followed by resolutions being moved in that House by a noble lord, who, by a catastrophe which no man lamented more than he did, had been prevented from so doing; but by that misfortune that House had been deprived of the only means it possessed of discussing this question, in the manner in which it could only be discussed with advantage. Because, if any bill were brought into this House, though their lordships might agree to the principle of it, but differ with respect to the duty, yet they dared not make any alteration in that particular. The noble duke (on being reminded by lord Holland, that the House did not admit that principle) stated, that if any alteration were made in the duties, probably the whole of the measure would be lost. He hoped, therefore, that some resolutions would be laid upon the table, in order that the House might be enabled to discuss the subject, and give their opinion upon it. With respect to the subject of wool, he thought it a most extraordinary consolation to state, that when two years' stock of wool was on the hands of the growers, the importation was going on. This consolation was a most extraordinary one; and went in the teeth of the very mover of the measure—who had stated at a public meeting, that taking off the duty on foreign wool would not hurt the home-grower, but that he would find a better market for his produce. What, however, had been the result? Two years' produce remained on the hands of the growers!
The Earl of Westmorlandsaid, he did not intend to trouble their lordships with arguments on the question before the House, but simply to reply to the noble duke as to the intention of his noble friend, whose absence he deeply regretted. His noble friend certainly had intended to submit resolutions to their lordships on the subject of the Corn-laws; but he had not, he believed, made up his mind in what way he could do it, so as to conform to the practice of the House. Their lord-
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ships were aware that any measure on the subject must be brought forward in another place; and in the irregularity of bringing the subject immediately under their lordships' consideration, there seemed to be a general acquiescence. It was, however, in the power of any noble lord who might wish to discuss the question, to move resolutions upon the subject.
Lord Ellenboroughsaid, that such a course would be equally irregular on the part of any other noble lord, as on the part of the noble earl who was absent. The noble lord had stated, that the House acquiesced in the suggestion not to discuss this question. The House, however, were obliged to acquiesce; seeing that no other noble lord opposite could have made an explanation on the subject.
Lord Redesdaleobserved, that when their lordships came to the consideration of the Corn-laws, they must view the subject as connected with a great many circumstances. The profits of the farmer had been lowered by the importation of wool, and by the depressed price of tallow, on account of importation. Importation had had the same effect on hides and skins, and cheese; and it was hardly worth the farmer's while to continue their dairies. He agreed with the noble duke, that the House ought to have an opportunity afforded it, of declaring its opinion on the com question; and if no other noble lord would undertake the task, he should himself submit a motion on the subject to their lordships. The resolutions printed in the votes of the House of Commons appeared to be of this description—that they fixed a maximum on the price of corn. Did any writer on political economy, or any person who had thought upon the subject, dream of such a plan? The experience of past ages in this country proved, that to fix a maximum on any commodity was injurious to the production of that commodity. In the reign of Edward 2nd, a maximum was imposed on every thing; which law lasted about a year, when the cry of the country became so strong as to cause its repeal. If the effect of a maximum on other things was mischievous, it was still more impolitic when applied to corn; the maximum of which was now fixed at 60 s. The decrease which had taken place in tallow, hides, skins, horns, and hoofs, had an effect to raise the price of meat; for the butcher could no longer consider his fifth quarter as a just remuneration.

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Their lordships, perhaps, might not know that the butcher derived his profit from the fifth quarter. He sold his meat at the same rate per pound at which he bought the cattle from the agriculturist, and the fifth quarter was his profit. But the butcher now, in order to get a profit, must place an additional price on his meat. Supposing, as some political economists had coolly contemplated, that one-third of the land now in cultivation were to be thrown out, what would be the consequence? Some people imagined that it would make meat cheaper; but if they examined the subject practically, they would find it would make meat dearer. In the act of Charles 2nd, he believed they would find the true system of political economy. If they did not make the trade of the farmer profitable, the country would not be cultivated; and, under these circumstances, he thought the subject required more consideration than his majesty's ministers had given it. The noble lord, after contrasting the present system of cultivation with that formerly adopted, said it was only wonderful, that corn should be sold at its present reduced price in this country, which was only because the farmer was satisfied with a less profit than the manufacturer. The noble lord, after adverting to the duties on wool, observed, that the whole system of commerce was now changed. Unlike the merchants of former days, who, habited in their velvet caps and square-toed shoes, dwelt with their clerks at the counting-house in the city, our modern merchants resided in Portland-place, or Portman-square, or in the Regent's park; and such were the multiplicity of their other engagements, that it was with difficulty they could got to their counting-house in time to sign the letters, of which they could know nothing, as they were prepared by their confidential clerk, to whom the management of the business was consigned. It was this extreme way of carrying on business that required an extreme profit beyond that which in former times sufficed.
The Earl of Malmesburysaid, he was happy to hear that the learned lord intended to submit some resolutions to that House on the subject. He was perfectly ready to meet his majesty's government in any modification of the Corn-laws; but he thought it would be a great advantage that the sentiments of their lordships should be well known, previous to the
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introduction of any measure on the subject.
Lord Ellenboroughwas also glad to hear that the noble and learned lord proposed to submit some resolutions on the subject to the House.
Lord Bexleysaid, that if the noble and learned lord's propositions were carried into effect, they would exclude all foreign commerce entirely.
The motion for the returns was then agreed to.