§ The Duke of Devonshirepresented a Petition from the Roman Catholics of Dungarvon, praying for the removal of the disabilities under which they laboured. He was desirous of shortly expressing to their lordships the deep regret he felt, that the consideration of the Catholic claims had been rejected, by a decision come to in another place. From principle, and from justice, he had invariably felt a strong conviction of the expediency of complying with the prayer of the Roman Catholics; and, if any thing could have added to the weight of that conviction, it would have been the events of the past year, which had established beyond all doubt, that the Catholics feel as one man on this great question. Instances of intemperance, and even of violence, produced by the determination not to consider the claims of the Catholics, showed the propriety and necessity of looking to the cause which produced them. That cause was Catholic exclusion, or a denial of those constitutional rights, of which, in his opinion, no man ought to be deprived, unless for reasons far more strong than those which had ever been urged in support of the exclusion of the Catholics. The restriction which existed opposed itself not only to the improvement of Ireland, but kept up a feverish excitement which produced animosity and destroyed all the charities of social life; and there was no alternative but for the Catholics to obtain their just rights, the granting which he urged, not for the sake of the Catholics, only but also of the Protestants of the South and the West. He addressed their lordships as one who had been exposed to the sneers of those to whose cause he had been attached; but, conscious of the sincerity of his own views, he had disregarded their attacks. He had not, however, abandoned their cause; on the contrary, he desired more than ever to see justice done to them, and whatever means he had in his power should always be exerted for that object. While he made that declaration, he also wished to express the regret he felt at the determination which had been shown, not even to consider the claims of the Catholics; which determination was likely to weaken the efforts of those who might have been disposed to follow an even and temperate course; who might have been powerful in conciliating the respective parties that were in collision. It had pleased those who had power elsewhere, to 1282 take a course which was much to be regretted, and all who were connected with Ireland must now act as to them seemed best. Rejected by the parliament, the condition of the Roman Catholics was not the less strong, though it was that of a defeated multitude.
The Lord Chancellorsaid, he could not permit the observation, that the disinclination of the legislature to take into consideration the claims of the Roman Catholics was a thing to be lamented, to pass unnoticed; and he would call to their lordships' recollection the history of a few past years. The first motion which was proposed by the friends to Roman Catholic emancipation, was a motion to take the petitions of the Roman Catholics into consideration. The objection made to that proposition was by persons, who, he would venture to say, were as much attached to the constitution, and as favourable to civil and religious liberty, as any who had ever entered that House. The objection turned upon this point—that a motion of so general a nature had no other tendency but to raise, in the minds of the Protestant subjects of his majesty, apprehensions with respect to their safe enjoyment of civil and religious liberty, and which might therefore create great uneasiness, when perhaps there was no occasion, and on the other hand give hopes to the Roman Catholics, which no Protestant legislature, and no Protestant king at the head of it, ought to encourage. Such motions had been made year after year, and repeatedly rejected; and at last a motion was brought forward for the purpose of carrying- into execution, not the general consideration of the subject, but of some specific measure. This bill had also been rejected repeatedly; and the motion made this session, to take into consideration the state of the Catholics, was a motion which came to the same proposition which had been often before parliament, when, after all the attention given to the subject, it had been considered to be a measure which parliament ought not to adopt. He had taken the liberty to state these circumstances, because he thought it necessary, when a motion had been made, to take into consideration the state of the Catholics, to refer back to the frequent attempts which had been made for effecting that purpose. With respect to what ought to be the particular measure brought forward, he could only say on that subject, that whenever 1283 the noble duke or any other noble lord who entertained the same opinions with him—and no man living could entertain for him more sincere regard than he did—called upon him, and other noble lords who were of the same opinion as he was, to state what measure they would propose which was likely to produce conciliation, he must be allowed to say, on the other hand, that there were men who thought that they would be sacrificing civil and religious liberty, if they passed any motion that had been proposed to them on the subject of the Catholic claims. For his own part, he must be allowed to say, and he most solemnly declared it, that after what had passed, it was infinitely more difficult that these measures should be considered now than it was three years ago.
The Marquis of Lansdownsaid, he had no intention of offering any observations on the petition which his noble friend had presented, had it not been for the unexpected remarks which had just fallen from the noble and learned lord. But after those remarks, directed as they were to the form of the motion to which he had intended to have endeavoured to induce their lordships to agree, had it not beau for circumstances over which he had no control, he felt himself bound to say a few words; without entering at that moment into the merits of that motion, and without attempting any vindication of the form which the motion had assumed in another place. He should not, therefore, now state the grounds upon which he should have called upon their lordships to consider the claims of the Roman Catholics before they adopted any specific measure on the subject; but the circumstance, that time after time, specific measures had been brought forward, which had been, under the influence of the noble and learned lord, repeatedly rejected, formed a reason for introducing a measure of a general nature. And, what more natural or more parliamentary course—what course more directly applied to the arguments used by the noble and learned lord—than when their lordships had been induced to reject, nay, to treat with contempt, every suggestion which the wisest and most able men had offered for security, after specific motions had been brought forward, which had been disapproved of by the noble and learned lord, and rejected by parliament, and after the increasing dis- 1284 satisfaction consequent upon those rejections—what more natural or proper course, he repeated, could be pursued, under these circumstances, than to ask parliament to take into consideration what was the state of the people of Ireland? That consideration had been rejected; and he now called upon those who had rejected that measure to say what measure they had to propose to parliament. But the noble and learned lord stated that, time after time, these propositions had been brought forward. Let him recollect that, time after time, those propositions had been rejected; and that, time after time, the condition of the country had become worse under that state of the government which the noble and learned lord supported, and under that state of the law, which he seemed, by his determination, to suffer no alteration in it, to think the most perfect.—He should now address himself particularly to the noble and learned lord; and if that noble and learned lord really believed that no circumstances had arisen, in the course of the last year, which gave to this question a new form, and furnished new grounds for deliberation; if he really believed that dangers to the constitution of this country—that dangers to the church, and to the future prosperity of this country—had not manifested themselves in the course even of the last Summer, in a way to impose upon every thinking man the duty of reflecting upon that which parliament had decided not even to take into consideration—if the noble and learned lord really supposed that no such circumstances had arisen, it could only proceed from his not having been acquainted with the circumstances of that country; which forced themselves upon the attention of every man connected with it, and which had displayed, in their bitterest and most mischievous form, those elements of confusion, which threaten to dissolve society in that country; but which dissolution their lordships were to await, without even considering what the elements of danger were. He thought that parliament, in not considering the state of Ireland, abandoned their duty. He was aware of the impossibility of knowing what was the opinion of the government in its present state; but, when there should be a government—when a government should exist—then it would be their lordships' duty to consider well this question; and he then intended to state those circumstances which were un- 1285 known to the noble and learned lord, but which had appalled the understandings and alarmed the apprehension of every man who looked to the future. He thought it his duty to state thus much, after what he had unexpectedly heard from the noble and learned lord; and to repeat his deep conviction of the justice of those sentiments which his noble friend had expressed, who had presented the petition.
The Lord Chancellorobserved, that if the noble marquis meant to state, that the decisions of that House were made under the influence of the person whom he called the "noble and learned lord," applying to himself, he could only say, God forbid that that should be the fact! His own confident opinion was, that their lordships' decisions were those of a Protestant House of parliament in a Protestant empire, paying only a proper attention to the honest declarations of the opinion of one of the members of that House; for he was too well acquainted with his own imperfections and defects—and he said that, as a man approaching to his grave—to suppose that their lordships had thought proper to adopt his opinion on a matter of such great importance. He only wished so to conduct himself, that the subjects of a Protestant king and a Protestant parliament might be convinced that he went to the grave without having lessened the security which the country had for the enjoyment of civil and religious liberty. He did not presume to state or to think that the sentiments of the humble individual, convinced of his imperfections, who now stood before their lordships, could have such influence as to direct their decisions; and he thought that the noble marquis, who stated that he had influence, paid no compliment to their lordships. With respect to security for a Protestant country and for a Protestant church, he had long made up his mind, that their lordships must do either of these two things—they must grant what was asked without any securities at all, or they must have much better security than those which had hitherto been offered. Such security was the most weak and ineffective that could possibly be offered to parliament. He could assure the noble marquis, that he should be ever foremost to express the respect which he felt was due to him; but he thought he had a right to expect that that noble lord would have given him credit for perfect conviction of the justice of the part he had acted, with 1286 respect to the Catholic claims. No man in the kingdom was a greater friend to toleration than he was; and it was upon that ground that he hoped and trusted—and he should say so, if these were the last words he should utter—and he was approaching quickly to the end of his days—he hoped and trusted, that their lordships, both for the sake of the Protestant subjects as well as the Catholic subjects of this empire, would preserve that constitution which had been earned by the exertions of their ancestors at the time of the Revolution; and would state to the Roman Catholics that, with his consent, they should have every thing except power in a Protestant state.