Lords Sitting of 28 February 1826

CORN LAWS.
Lord Kingsaid, he had a petition, against the job of jobs, the Corn-laws, to present, from the city of Rochester. He thought the people in a Kentish town might justly complain of the tax; because, in the next county to Kent, the county of Calais, corn might be got for little more than half the price that it could be bought for in Kent. It was quite natural for them to wish to abolish the Corn-laws, which made this great difference. The Kentish landlords might say, that if the price were reduced one-half, the whole agricultural interest would be ruined. But if, by repealing the Corn-laws, the price would be reduced one-half, which he did not believe would be the case, that only, more fully exposed the folly of that act, by which the power of 8 great confederacy was enabled to enforce so enormous a tax on the community at large for the benefit of the landlords and parsons.
The Earl of Darnleyput it to the good sense and the good nature of his noble, friend whether he thought the agitation of this delicate question, night after, night, could be of spy service; or whether, indeed, it could be productive of any thing but evil. If his noble friend was resolved not to follow the wise course marked out by ministers, not to agitate this topic in the
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present session, he might bring in a measure, and then he would have an opportunity of debating the question. But he put it to his noble friend, whether, in the present state of the country, when numbers were hardly able to get bread at any price, it was consistent with good sense to instil into the minds of the people, that it was the landed interest in that and the other House of parliament, which kept up a law that tended to starve them. He hoped, whenever the question were brought before their lordships, that it would be discussed with no view to their own narrow and paltry interests, but, as indeed he was confident it would, with a view to the protection of all the interests of the country.
Lord Kingsaid, that knowing from what quarter this good advice came, he could not think of following it. His noble friend might pursue one course; but he was determined to persevere in another. His noble friend joined in the sentiments of a noble earl, who on a former night had expressed a hope that "little harangues" would not be made on this subject. Now, that might be a very good course for those who were supporters of the Corn-laws, but it was one which he could never adopt, decidedly opposed as he was to those laws. The reasons urged to induce him to abstain from those "little harangues" were precisely those which must induce him to persevere. The opponents of the Corn-laws had no chance of success, but by the subject being debated day after day. They had already been jilted on one, or two occasions, when it was expected the question would be brought under consideration.
The Earl of Lauderdalesaid, the noble lord must have a very different idea of debating a question, from what he entertained, if he thought such a perpetual recurrence to it, a debate. Last session he had constantly made attacks on the bench of bishops, and seemed to suppose that was debating the Catholic question. In the same manner he had attacked the learned lord on the woolsack, as if he supposed that he was debating the Chancery question, while he was uttering witticisms on the lord chancellor. The noble lord must have a very strange idea of debating, if he supposed that sarcasms, or downright abuse, of the landed interest, was the best method of discussing the Corn question. The noble lord had said they wished to starve the poor; but when there was

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that difference between the value of paper and gold, who was the first man to insist on his rents being paid in gold? Why, the very noble lord who now talked of the landed interest starving the people. The noble lord sometimes talked of the restriction of the Bank, but who was the principal author of that restriction?
The Duke of Atholsaid, that the noble lord had lately presented a similar petition from the weavers of Perth, who, a few years ago, in a time of general distress, were principally supported by the landed interest. Not less than 1,500 of them were maintained entirely at the expense of the landed proprietors, and he had in his possession a letter expressing their grateful thanks for the succour afforded to them. The petition which they had intrusted to the noble lord was a poor return for so much kindness on the part of the landed interest. The noble lord endeavoured to irritate the poor against the landed interest, and in doing this, he seemed to be guided neither by wisdom nor good sense, nor gentlemanly conduct. Such attacks were derogatory to the dignity of their lordships. He pledged himself, whenever the question was brought forward, to examine it without any regard to individual interest, but solely with a view to its effects on the interests of the whole kingdom.
Lord Kingsaid, that he should always tell the truth, whether it were agreeable to the noble duke or not. As to the petition from Perth, he knew nothing more of it than that it was put into his hands to present to their lordships; but if the noble duke had formerly 1,500 weavers to subsist, he was likely, under the present system, to have 3000 next year. A noble earl had implied, that he had been the cause of the Bank Restriction act; but, in this the noble earl had made a strange mistake, for the Bank Restriction act was passed in 1797, and the transaction to which he alluded did not take place till 1811. The noble earl might have learned the reason for his conduct, if he had turned to a noble lord (Bexley) a few paces on his left hand. On a certain day in June, in that year, the then chancellor of the Exchequer had placed a resolution on the Journals of the House of Commons, declaring that the paper circulation of the country and gold were equivalent in value. He was astonished how so absurd, so contemptible a statement, could have been made by any man, and still more astonished that it should have been gravely re-
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ceived in a popular assembly. On account of its absurdity, he had resolved to put it to the test, and he gave notice to his tenants, within one month after that declaration appeared, that he would receive nothing but gold in payment of his rent. The government was then forced to adopt a measure introduced into that House, and as they could not convince the country that paper was equivalent to gold, they made a law to prevent all payments in gold. He had neither hurt, nor wished to hurt, any person by that measure, which he had only adopted as a test of the accuracy of the chancellor of the Exchequer's resolution. He had at the time explained his conduct in that House, and made as good a defence as he could. He thought the noble earl had a little overcharged what he had said about debating, as he did not suppose that his "little harangues," as the noble earl called them, were debates. He must also deny, that he had ever stated that the landed interest starved the poor. He never had stated any such thing. ["You called it the job of jobs," from the earl of Limerick]. He had no doubt done so, and he believed it the greatest job that ever was.
The Earl of Limerick, recommended the noble lord, for his own sake, not to repeat the same story every day, or, like the parrots, it might happen not to attract attention.
Ordered to lie on the table.