Lords Sitting of 14 June 1825

COLONIAL INTERCOURSE BILL.
Earl Bathurstin moving the second reading of this bill, entered into a history of the law respecting Colonial Intercourse, and stated the object of the present measure. After describing the dispute which had arisen with the United States on the subject of trade with the British colonies, he observed, that in all former measures for regulating the colonial trade, prohibition was the rule, and admission the exception; whereas, in the present bill admission formed the rule, and prohibition the exception. Besides the regulation of the colonial trade, the extension of the warehousing system was another object of this bill. The part which related to that object allowed all goods to be warehoused either for importation or exportation, and authorized re-exportation, without subjecting the merchandise to any additional duty. There were certain articles which after importation could not be exported without paying a duty imposed for the protection of British trade; but it was not thought necessary that this protection should any longer exist. Warehouses might therefore be established on a more extensive system than the former state of the law authorised. Their lordships would observe that this was a complete abandonment of what had hitherto been regarded as the English colonial system; but it was an alteration which the changes in the political and commercial relations of other nations with respect to this country required. The trade of the colonies would, by this bill, be identified with the trade of the mother country. Formerly, no trade was allowed between the colonies and this country, except in British ships; no trade was allowed between one colony and another, except in British ships; and, in the same manner, no trade was allowed between one port of this country and another, except in British ships. It could no longer be said that we placed our colonies in a worse situation with respect to trade than the United States. The colonies would now not only enjoy the same advantages as the United States, but colonial vessels would be entitled to all the advantages of British ships. In short, the colonies were now placed in the same situation, with respect to trade, as if they formed parts of the mother country. The changes which Europe and the new

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world had undergone had naturally produced this change in our colonial system. Whether the states of America which had recently separated from their European connexion would make the same stupendous progress with those which had set them the example remained to be seen. They were still exposed to warfare, and the contest in which they were engaged might be continued; but, in the midst of that warfare they presented to other countries the advantages which were to be derived from neutral trade.
The Marquis of Lansdownsaid, that the present bill, which proposed to make a most important revolution in the navigation-law of this country, had his cordial assent. He owned he felt great satisfaction at seeing this measure brought forward; not merely because he had long entertained the opinions which it was at last proposed to sanction, but because he himself had endeavoured to carry the same principle into practice. He had, in the other House of parliament, recommended a more liberal intercourse between our colonies and America; and now, after the lapse of nineteen years, that course was about to be adopted. The measure which he recommended was, indeed, compared with the present, weak and partial; but, feeble and inefficient as it was, it was the subject of repeated divisions in parliament, and out of doors; it was denounced, solely on the ground that it had a tendency to do what this bill proposed to do. The friends and present supporters of the noble earl opposite cried it. down, because it led to that freedom of intercourse which ministers now took credit to themselves for establishing. Their lordships must now perceive that if they wished to retain the colonies, the best way would be to render them, as far as possible, capable of engaging in every kind of trade, and susceptible of every advantage which would be open to this country. He was aware, that, upon whatever principle they proceeded with respect to the colonies, it was still possible that a crisis would arrive that a separation must take place; but it was their duty to try to endeavour to retard it to a distant period. At the same time, while they were sensible that it could not be prevented, they ought to make provision that when it did occur, it should take place with circumstances as little injurious as possible. Of the good effects of what had already been done they had an example in the increase of trade—
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not merely of trade by foreign shipping but by an increase of British navigation. He had understood that other measures in connexion with the present were to have been brought forward. One of them, he understood, was a regulation which would have the effect of removing duties on certain articles of West-India produce, which could not enter into competition with British produce or manufactures. Nothing could be more desirable than the adoption of a system which would tend to the establishment of a system of free labour. All their lordships, he was sure, were earnestly desirous to see free labour substituted for the system which at present prevailed in the sugar colonies.
The Earl of Liverpoolthought that the bill had been wisely introduced. A measure had been brought forward on this subject when the noble marquis was chancellor of the Exchequer; and he had felt it his duty to oppose it, thinking that the time and circumstances, in which it was brought forward were unfavourable to its adoption. Now, however, circumstances were much changed. South America had nearly effected its independence; and when that was once established our colonies would cease to exist as such, and must be considered as integral parts of Great Britain, as much as London, or Liverpool. By placing them on that footing, we secured their attachment; and, if at any future time they should be separated from us, that separation would thereby be rendered much less dangerous. The bill before their lordships could not be looked upon as an infringement of the navigation-laws. It allowed foreign ships to bring to the colonies only the produce of their respective countries, and take back to their own countries the commodities of the colonies; but it did not admit such ships to any part of the carrying trade, so as to take the produce of the colonies between nations to which such ships did not belong.

EQUITABLE LOAN BILL.
Lord Dacremoved the second reading of this bill.
The Earl of Lauderdaleexpressed his surprise, that after all that had fallen from counsel on the subject of the illegality of this bill, his noble friend should have moved the second reading, without stating any one ground why it should be so read. However, he would consent to the bill being sent to a committee, in order to have the deed made a part of it; and, on

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the third reading it would be for their lordships to consider how far it ought to receive their sanction. His objection to this bill did not arise from wanton prejudice, but from a strong feeling he had of the injurious tendency of joint-stock companies. He could not concur in the assertion, that joint stock-companies encouraged competition. So far from it that he thought the direct effect of them was to destroy all competition, and to bring the most ruinous consequences upon trade. From t he nature of such companies, they could not carry on trade so beneficially to the country as private individuals.
The Lord Chancellorobserved, that if this company were not illegal, it might be for their lordships to consider whether it would be useful to the community to grant them the privileges for which they sought; but, if they were illegal, it might be asked on what ground did they claim any privileges at all? It was admitted, that until the signing of the trust-deed, the company was unquestionably illegal. He had no objection to allow the trust-deed to form a part of the bill. After it had passed the committee, it would be competent for their lordships to discuss whether the bill, as it would then stand, was or was not a fit measure for legislative sanction; and he would take care that the twelve judges should be summoned to give their opinion as to its legality. He begged to be understood distinctly as neither admitting or denying the legality of the company, until the deed formed a part of the bill.
Lord Dacreexpressed a hope, that when the deed was embodied in the bill, their lordships would give the measure all that consideration to which it was so well entitled.
The bill was read a second time.