Lords Sitting of 24 February 1825

SPRING GUNS.
Lord Suffieldrose, pursuant to the notice he had given, to move the first reading of a bill to declare it unlawful for persons to set Spring-guns, or any other instruments which were dangerous to life, or liable to inflict bodily harm. He understood the forms of their lordships' House did not usually permit of discussion on the first reading of a measure as it provoked objections which were generally reserved for the second reading of a bill. He hoped the same courtesy would be extended to him, and therefore he should only state the object of the bill, and his reasons shortly for offering it to their lordships. The object of the bill had been, however, stated already in its title, and he did not know that he could add any thing on that subject. The reasons which had operated with him for bringing in the measure, were principally those reports which he had lately read in the newspapers, of various accidents resulting from the use of spring-guns, to innocent persons. It
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was not poachers who suffered from these weapons, but servants, and gentlemen, and children, who happened to stray in woods where they were set. Poachers knew how to avoid them. He had heard that royal blood was very near being shed not long ago by one of these spring-guns. They were liable to inflict death on people; and he was sure no one of their lordships would sanction the principle, that individuals should take the law into their own hands, and inflict capital punishment for an offence that the law only punished with a much lighter penalty. It could not be allowed that individuals, for the protection of their property, should thus go so far beyond the law. It was in this case rendered more odious, by the sneaking and assassin-like manner in which the injury was done. He did not mean to say that any gentleman, or particularly any noble lord were assassins; and he hoped he should not be so understood, as he was quite convinced no one of their lordships ever wished to inflict death on any man for stealing a pheasant. As to the legality of the practice, he would undertake to prove it illegal; not, indeed, by reference to any particular law, for then the bill he had the honour to propose to their lordships would be unnecessary, but by arguments drawn from analogy. There were, however, doubts existing on the subject, and the bill he offered to their lordships would clear them up. He would not then trouble their lordships with any further observations, but move that the bill be read a first time.
Earl Grosvenorhoped the bill would receive the attention of their lordships; as he was satisfied that it was likely to do a great deal of good.
The bill was read a first time.

PETITION OF THE ROMAN CATHOLICS OF IRELAND.
The Earl of Donoughmorerose, pursuant to notice, to present to their lordships the petition which had been confided to him by his Catholic brethren of Ireland, and the value of whose confidence he fully appreciated. In rising to present their petition, he could not state its object better than in their own language. It was calmly and firmly to ask the restitution of their rights from the legislature. It was impossible for him then to enter into the merits of the subject of petition, or discuss the question to which it related, either directly or indirectly, as he meant to call on their

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lordships on some early day to take the petition into consideration, when he should have a fit opportunity to go at length into its merits. He would only then state, in a few words, that the petition did not relate to any ordinary or trifling subject, and that it contained the signatures of 100,000 of his majesty's most faithful subjects. They had proved themselves so in times past, and would be again ready to do so, when called on in the hour of peril. The petition expressed the sentiments not only of those who signed it, but of all the Catholic inhabitants of Ireland, amounting to seven millions. Never, perhaps, was a petition presented, more numerously signed, or more deserving their lordships' attention. Never, he believed, were the sentiments expressed by one part of the people more completely in accordance with the sentiments of the whole body of the people, than on the present occasion. From the peer to the peasant, all descriptions of persons, all sects of religion, were unanimously in favour of the petitioners. Not only were the people unanimous, but they brought it forward with all the energy of freemen demanding their rights. They had met together, and numbered amongst them some of the ablest men of the country, who advocated their cause with energy, but with calmness and discretion. The petition was signed by the whole bulk of the respectable part of the Irish population. The first person whose signature was attached to it, was lord viscount Gormanstown; who, their lordships might ask, was lord Gormanstown? He was a descendant of a lord deputy, the representative of his majesty in Ireland, in better times than the present. It was impossible for him, when speaking upon this subject, not to say, that he had the honour, on leaving Ireland, to receive the proxy of his majesty's representative in Ireland in favour of Catholic emancipation. The descendant of one lord deputy had signed the petition, and the present representative of his majesty had done him (the earl of D.) the honour to entrust him with his proxy, to represent his feelings on the subject of the Catholics in that House. He would say of the marquis of Wellesley, that he believed Ireland had never had a more able or a more honest governor. During his residence in Ireland, he had effected a great deal of good. He had carried a reform into the magistracy, and had thereby conferred a great benefit on Ireland.
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There was one act of that noble person more particularly deserving their lordships' notice. In the court of Exchequer in Ireland there was an office of great importance, that of remembrancer. Lord Wellesley had conferred it on Mr. Blake, a Catholic. This appointment was a great benefit to Ireland; for this gentleman had long been an ornament of the bar. Whatever might be the opinion of the noble marquis on the measure now in progress through the other House, he could not help saying, that his government had brought Ireland to a state of prosperity it had never known before. He said this in justice to the lord-lieutenant; but he must add, that he could not have so far succeeded, had not his efforts been ably seconded by this Catholic Association, which had done much, under the calumniated Mr. O'Connell, to calm the people. He would only move, that the petition be read, and would not now fix any day for taking it into consideration.

PETITION OF PROTESTANTS OF DUBLIN IN FAVOUR OF CATHOLIC EMANCIPATION.
The Marquis of Lansdownsaid, he had to submit to their lordships a petition in favour of the same object, from the Protestant land-owners, merchants, and bankers of Dublin and its neighbourhood. Though not so numerously signed as the petition which had been presented by his noble friend, it was entitled to the most serious consideration of the House. It expressed the opinion of the most respectable and wealthy portion of the Protestant inhabitants of that part of the country from which the petition came, on the claims of their Catholic fellow-subjects. The first name was that of the duke of Leinster; the next was the earl of Meath, the two greatest landed proprietors in that part of Ireland. These names were followed by the signatures of the marquisses of Downshire and Westmeath, the earls of Limerick and Charlemont, lords Glengal, Riversdale, Forbes, and many other noble names. After these came the names of wealthy capitalists and opulent merchants. There were to be seen among the bankers and merchants, the name of Latouche, and the names of the descendants of men who had fled from religious persecution in another country, and had found an asylum in this. Their ancestors, who were the victims of an act of great injustice committed by an ambitious tyrant, abandoned

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France in consequence of the revocation of the edict of Nantes. They suffered persecution as Protestants under a Catholic government; for what religion did there exist which had not, at some period or other, been degraded and polluted, by the fanatical zeal of those who thought they served it by acts of cruelty and injustice? As fanatical zeal led to the formation of erroneous principles, so the exercise of benevolent feelings, through three successive generations, had taught these descendants of persecuted Protestants to regard the Roman Catholics among whom they resided, not as enemies whom they ought to dread, but as brethren, as fellow subjects of the same sovereign, discharging the same duties, and with whom they would be proud to live under the same laws and in the enjoyment of equal rights. Their lordships could not fail to recollect, that the names of these men were names essentially connected with the Protestant religion. They would besides find attached to this petition, the names of some of the principal bankers, and of various capitalists materially connected with the great interests of Ireland, and engaged in speculations just beginning to be unfolded for the benefit of that country. Of the men thus engaged in great and useful enterprises, many had come forward to add their testimony in favour of the justice and the policy of granting the claims of their Catholic brethren. And, did their lordships believe, that they who had set their names to the present petition had subscribed it without well considering what would be the consequences of granting the prayer of the petition? For himself, he felt flattered by the confidence that had placed it in his hands. He had always felt that this great question was not a Catholic, or a Protestant, but an Irish question; that it was not a question, whether or not several millions of Catholics should be admitted to an equal share of the benefits of the constitution, but how long that practical community, in which here, as in every other country all over the globe, Catholics as well as Protestants should enjoy a participation of civil rights, was to be deferred; for he felt that this measure, to use the words of a noble friend of his, would inevitably pass. But he hoped it would pass soon, and that when it did pass, it might pass with the assent and concurrence of a large portion of the Protestants.
Ordered to lie on the table.