Lords Sitting of 7 February 1825

STATE OF IRELAND.
The Marquis of Lansdownwished to ask the noble earl opposite two questions. The noble earl had given notice of a motion for a committee to inquire into the State of Ireland. Last year, when a similar committee was appointed, he (lord Lansdown) had proposed, that the inquiry should be extended to the whole of Ireland, and not be confined to the disturbed districts. The powers of the committee of last year were, however, limited, and he was afraid that that example might be followed on the present occasion. He therefore wished to know, whether it was the intention of the noble earl to limit the committee he was about to move for in the same way as that of last year.
The Earl of Liverpoolsaid, that the motion he intended to make would not be the same as that of last year. He would propose that the inquiry should extend to the whole of Ireland, or, in other words, that no part of Ireland should be exempt from the investigation of the committee.
The Marquis of Lansdownsaid, he apprehended, from what had passed on Thursday, that it was not the noble earl's intention to lay on the table any papers connected with that part of his majesty's Speech which related to Ireland.
The Earl of Liverpoolobserved, that he did not intend to lay on the table any papers relating to the state of Ireland.
The Marquis of Lansdownbeing so informed, gave notice that he would tomorrow move for copies of all despatches received from the lord-lieutenant of Ireland relating to the origin, progress, and consequences, of the political and religious societies in that country.

CLERK OF PARLIAMENT.
Lord Colchester laid on the table the report from the committee appointed to inquire into the duties of the Clerk of Parliament.
Earl Grosvenorcongratulated the House on the result of the labours of the committee. By it, there had been a considerable saving made, and the service would henceforth be more efficiently performed. It was not his object in abolishing sinecures, merely to save expense, but to have the service better performed; but, when the two objects were both attained by the same measure, he thought it a proper subject of congratulation.

SCOTCH JUDICATURE.
The Lord Chancellorcalled to their lordships' recollection a bill for regulating the Judicature of Scotland, which had passed that House in the course of the last session. Before that bill was brought in, a commission of inquiry had been appointed. The commissioners were selected from among the persons best qualified and able to give information on the subject. A report was made by the commission to the House, and a bill conformable to the recommendations of the report was introduced and passed, and sent down to the Commons, where it received considerable amendments in consequence of some Scotch publications on the subject. It was not thought fit by their lordships to adopt the amendments thus made, and the bill was lost. He intended, therefore, to bring in a new bill in precisely the same form as that of last session, and if any further light could be thrown on the subject, that bill might undergo alterations when before their lordships' committee.

JOINT STOCK COMPANIES.
The Lord Chancellorsaid, that as he was now on his legs, he would address to their lordships a few words relative to Joint Stock Companies, on the subject of which he had, on Thursday last, given notice that it was his intention to bring in a bill. He did not mean to go further than he had then stated: but he thought it right to observe, that in point of fact he was not aware, that a suit which related to the subject to which he proposed to call their lordships' attention was actually pending before the court of King's bench, and that the lord chief justice gave judgment on that on the very day on which he had addressed their lordships. He did not mean to say what the law was; but, whatever it might be—and he did not wish it to be understood that he had not made up his mind upon that point—the public ought not to be left in the present state of uncertainty on the subject. His lordship then proceeded to state, that his bill would not apply to companies already constituted, or which might be constituted by charter or act of parliament. But, whatever might be the existing law, it could never be intended, that the public should stand in this situation—that before the authority of the Crown or of parliament shall be given to constitute a Joint Stock Company, persons should be permitted to sell at
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an enormous profit the shares of that company; which was nothing more nor less then laying a bait for their own benefit, by which innocent individuals were great sufferers. The object of his measure Would therefore be, to prevent the transferring of shares of any Joint Stock Company, until such Company shall have received the sanction of a charter or an act of parliament.
The Earl of Lauderdalewished the learned lord to consider what the House ought first to do, in order to ascertain the law. The regular mode of proceeding in such a case would be, to ask the judges what was the law, and upon their answer, a declaratory bill might be introduced.
The Lord Chancellordid not think that declaring the law would answer the purpose he had in view, as the penalties inflicted by the 6th Geo. 1st. were so severe. The transgression of the statute might be allowed to go on; because, the effects of premunire, or loss of goods and chattels, were so enormous, that it was probable nobody would be disposed to enforce them. His object was, to prevent persons out of doors from transgressing the law with impunity; which would not be accomplished by a declaratory law.