Lords Sitting of 17 May 1824

STATE OF IRELAND.
The Earl of Liverpoolrose, to move for the appointment of a committee on the State of Ireland, similar to that recently appointed by the other House. When the Insurrection act was under consideration last year, ministers had promised, in the case of its being thought necessary to renew that measure, to give every necessary information to parliament on the state of Ireland. It was with a view to the fulfilment of this promise that he now moved, "That a committee be appointed, to examine into the nature and extent of the disturbances in those counties of Ireland now subject to the operation of the Insurrection act."
The Marquis of Lansdownsaid, he experienced a melancholy satisfaction at finding that, however desirous ministers had hitherto been, to escape from all inquiry on the subject of Ireland, that now, after years of delay, an inquiry was forced upon them by what had occurred in another place. The measure, as limited by the terms of the noble earl's motion, was unfortunately of a very partial nature; still, it was gratifying to hear it proposed, even under those limitations, that something like an inquiry should at last be gone into. At the same time he must say, that, limited as the noble earl's motion was, he was afraid the inquiry would be very far from going to the root of the evil, and producing that full disclosure of its cause which could alone enable their lordships' to discover those constitutional remedies which they ought to apply instead of continuing that inefficient remedy to which they had already so often resorted. He, therefore, implored their lordships to consider, whether it was not their duty, to satisfy themselves as to the causes of the evil, and whether that satisfaction could be obtained by an inquiry into the state of only certain parts of the country. It was also his wish to enable those who might be of opinion that the inquiry
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ought to be general, to record such opinion, by moving an amendment to that effect. If it could be supposed that the districts of Ireland into which the Insurrection act extended were the only parts of the country in which the circumstances that gave birth to the disturbances existed, he should be quite as willing as the noble lord to confine the inquiry to those districts; but that this was not the case, their lordships, who were aware of the proceedings of the Irish government with respect to the application of this act, need not be told. They well knew the nicety with which it had been attempted to distinguish, by delicate shades and thin partitions, between the peaceable and disturbed districts. They knew how often it had been made a question by the magistrates and the government, whether a certain place was fit for the Insurrection act. Under these circumstances, was it possible for their lordships to take a just view of the subject submitted to their consideration, without going into the general question of the state of Ireland? Would the noble earl point out any part of Ireland, in which he could positively say, that the Insurrection act would not be enforced next year? A full and prompt investigation was due to the present peaceable part of the country, to prevent the great calamity of the extension of this act, which, wherever applied, was attended by most dreadful consequences to the population. To facilitate this object he would propose as an amendment, to insert after the words, "that a committee be appointed," the words "to inquire into the general condition of Ireland, and more particularly to examine into the extent and nature of the disturbances," &c
The Earl of Liverpooldenied that there had been manifested on the part of his majesty's government any indisposition to inquire into the state of Ireland. They had, in several instances, thought it proper that inquiry should be instituted; but they had always been of opinion, that in order to render inquiries useful, they should be definite in their nature. No advantage could be gained by adopting the noble marquis's amendment. The original motion was limited only as to locality; in every other circumstance, the inquiry was made as large as the noble marquis could desire. With respect to locality, their lordships would feel, that the inquiry, if gone into at all, could not fail to be conducted according to the terms

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of the motion; for the persons appointed to inquire would doubtless turn their attention first to those parts of the country where the evil was most crying. Had it been made general, the first object would have been, to ascertain what part of the country, and what part of the subject, should be commenced with, which would have brought those who had to inquire precisely to the point specified by the motion. For these reasons, he must oppose the amendment.
Lord Kingthought, that some good might be done by the inquiry but wished, it had been more extensive. He was aware, however, that such an inquiry could not easily be obtained. The learned lord on the woolsack would resist any interference with one party. He would say, "These are my Orangemen, the only true Protestants." It was said, that Ireland had been but half conquered; and though we had now got a Union, things were not much better for that, as it seemed to be but half united. Some fatality appeared to mix in all affairs relative to Ireland. Two parties were constantly in a state of hostility, the one claiming rights which the other denied. He therefore feared that the inquiry which the noble earl was to set a-going would not be of much use.
The House divided on the amendment: Contents 20: Not-Contents 50: The committee was then appointed.