Lords Sitting of 7 July 1823

IRISH INSURRECTION BILL.
The Earl of Liverpoolhaving moved the order of the day for the committal of this bill,
The Earl of Darnleywished to know if the noble earl meant to give no explanation of the grounds on which this measure was re-enacted.
The Earl of Liverpoolsaid, he had, on a former discussion on the state of Ire-
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land understood, that, with very few exceptions indeed, all persons were agreed as to the indispensable necessity of re-enacting the law, for the protection of the lives and properties of his majesty's peaceable subjects. He considered it impossible for any noble lord who had perused the papers on the table, to doubt that it was the first duty of the House to pass a bill on the principle of that before their lordships. That they might regret the necessity, and might differ as to the best means of preventing it in future, he could well conceive; but he could not imagine that there could be any doubt of the absolute necessity of passing some such bill as the one now under consideration.
The Earl of Limericksaid, that connected as he was with Ireland, he must say, that their lordships owed it to that country to pass the present measure; for he could state it, on his own knowledge, that it would be impossible to remain there for a single fortnight, if this or some similar measure were not passed into a law.
The Duke of Leinsterobjected strongly to the passing of this bill without previous inquiry, to ascertain the nature and extent of the disturbances in Ireland.
The Earl of Darnleyasked, whether, year after year, this sort of Irish annual mutiny bill was to be passed without any adequate information being laid before parliament? He pledged himself, early in the next session, to bring forward a proposition for a thorough investigation of the causes of the evils by which Ireland was afflicted. On the occasion of the King's visit last year, the most flattering promises of amelioration were held out: but two years of the government of lord Wellesley had elapsed, and the result was, the disappointment of every hope. Under the present system, Ireland could not be much longer governed. A change ought to be made by a redress of grievances, instead of measures of coercion. Under present circumstances, he was not prepared to oppose the further progress of the bill; but he protested against the passing of it as a mere matter of course.
Lord Calthorpedeeply deplored the necessity of again adopting a measure of this kind. He feared that it was necessary, but it ought to be limited to the necessity. What were deemed in England valuable, civil institutions and privi-

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leges—such as grand juries and the elective franchise, were in Ireland, by some fatal perversion, rendered worse than useless. Even the fertility of its soil seemed a curse: and at one time, while the people were starving, large quantities of grain were exported to this kingdom. It was in vain to hope for an increase of civilization in Ireland, while the system remained unchanged. In his opinion, political causes alone would not account for the present condition of Ireland. Her peculiar degraded state was mainly to be attributed to the gross and palpable darkness of her religious system. Catholicism had ever been prone to error, and in Ireland it existed in its most gloomy and debased shape. Any remedy would therefore be short of its object, if a civilizing and elevating religion were not in some way given to Ireland. Christianity in the most barbarous countries exalted human nature; and if it failed of this effect in Ireland, it was only because it was so strangely corrupted. He deprecated the constant agitation of the Catholic question, and expressed his confidence in the system of education which ministers had pledged themselves to establish.
The House then divided: Contents 36 —Not-contents 5. The House then went into a committee on the bill.
Lord Ellenboroughdeprecated the system of annually suspending the constitution in Ireland, instead of adopting measures calculated to conciliate the people of that country. He was satisfied that the present bill was more calculated to produce, than to allay irritation; and that until a totally different system was adopted, tranquillity would never be restored to Ireland. The present bill would be a mere nullity, for there was no adequate force to carry it into effect.
The Duke of Wellingtonwas satisfied, that there was a sufficient force in Ireland to carry the provisions of the bill into effect. The great advantage of the bill was, that it obliged persons to remain in their houses during the night, at which time the outrages in Ireland were usually committed. The military would be ready to aid the magistracy; but it was not necessary to throw upon the military the responsibility and the odium of carrying the bill into effect.
Earl Fitzwilliamsaid, he had never given a vote with greater satisfaction than that which he had just given against the commitment of this bill.
The bill went through the committee. On the report being brought up,
Lord Hollandcomplained, that a measure, which took away from Ireland all the benefit of equal laws and of the constitution, should be brought forward in a shape in which it was impossible to make a single amendment.
The Earl of Liverpoolsaid, that the measure had unfortunately been passed in that shape for many years, and that the nature and construction of the bill were well known both to those whose duty it was to carry it into effect, and to those who were subject to its provisions.
The report was agreed to.