§ Earl Greysaid, that previous to the holydays, he had given notice of his intention to bring the distressed state of the country under their consideration, with the view of relieving that distress by a reduction of taxation. He had also put a question to the noble earl opposite, the object of which was, to ascertain whether any measures were to be proposed by government, in addition to those which had already been brought before parliament. The noble earl had referred him to the committee of the House of Commons which was then sitting, and which had since made its report, observing, that he did not know what might be done by the House of Commons, in consequence of that inquiry, but that government had no further measures to propose. Shortly after this, the report of the agricultural committee appeared. Of that report it would be impossible for him, consistently with the respect due to the quarter whence it came, to speak in the terms it deserved. But this he would say, that he did not think it had disappointed the expectations of the country; for he did not believe that any body had entertained the slightest hope of benefit from the labours of the committee. Few, however, could suppose that any body of men, having before them all the materials of information on a given subject, could have produced a document so utterly deficient in every character of wisdom and practical utility as that report. With regard to the measures which had been proposed as means of relief, they were all inadequate to their object, and totally inconsistent with sound and rational views of policy. The presenting of that report would not therefore, have occasioned the least possible delay in his intention of bringing 326 forward a motion on the state of the country. But other measures had since been brought forward in the other House. Those measures might come before their lordships at no very distant period, ant he therefore thought it right to wait until they were brought up from the other House. With respect to these measures, he should take that opportunity of saying a few words. There was one specific measure now in progress, which was extraordinary, as it came from persons who had asserted that the reduction of taxation could afford no possible relief. That measure had his decided disapprobation, not certainly because it tended to reduce taxation, but because it proposed to accomplish that reduction in a manner the least advantageous to the country. Neither did he disapprove of because it violated the sinking fund, the attempt to preserve which was delusive, and which in his opinion ought to be wholly suspended, to relieve the pressure on the country. What he condemned the measure for, was, its violation of just principles, the disguise it assumed, and the complexity in which it was involved. The scheme to which recourse was now to be had, was one which would ultimately be attended with great loss to the country; and its evil effects were attempted to be concealed, by the disguise of preserving the sinking fund. This proposition for the reduction of taxation, would ultimately produce a loss to the country of several millions. If the noble earl should enter into any engagement before the subject was fully considered by the House; it would be his endeavour to induce their lordships to reject such engagement, as it must inevitably be attended with great loss to the public.
The Earl of Liverpoolsaid, he had never looked to the report of the agricultural committee as likely to give origin to any measure capable of relieving the existing agricultural distress. If, how, ever, there were defects in the existing law, he was not disposed to adopt the opinion that no prospective remedy ought to be applied, because he could not expect from any measure immediate relief. But the noble earl had particularly dwelt on what he called the inconsistency of ministers, who had declared that no relief was to be obtained from the reduction of taxation, and had yet proposed a measure, the object of which was to reduce taxation in an improper manner. Now, 327 neither he nor any person connected with government had ever made any such declaration. On the contrary, they had always held that the reduction of taxation, whenever it could be accomplished consistently with public faith, was a most desirable object. But, he had always held, as he now held, that reduction of taxation, would in vain be looked to as a means of relief to agricultural distress. He did not believe that the repeal of taxes could have the least effect on agriculture, unless it were limited to those which fell exclusively on the farmer. He would admit that the repeal of such taxes would be pro tanto a relief; but general government taxes pressed more lightly on the agriculturists than on any other class; and he must therefore maintain that no essential relief could be obtained by their reduction. He had laid an emphasis on "government taxes," because there was another king of taxes, namely, the poor-rates, which had a very different operation on agriculture, and were more severely felt. He was confident it would be found, that the weight of the government taxes fell on the community at large, and not particularly on the farmer; and that, though reduction would be a relief to the country in general, it would be none to agriculture. And here he would ask what had been the object of the reduction of the five per cents? No doubt that operation bore hard upon the holder, but it was a reduction of taxation to a certain degree; and it was expressly stated that it was a preliminary step to farther measures of the same kind. With respect to the measure in progress, for the future payment of the dead charge, he was prepared to prove that it involved no breach of public faith, and that it was in effect a reducing of the national debt, but by a different operation from that of the sinking fund; inasmuch as it possessed the advantage of yielding present relief. He could very well understand the argument of noble lords on the other side, who thought that getting rid of the sinking fund would relieve the country; but he must protest against such a doctrine, because he was convinced that the relief which might thus be maintained would ultimately prove an injury to the country.