HL Deb 03 April 1821 vol 5 cc1-3

The Roman Catholic Disability Removal bill, was brought from the Commons by sir John Newport, attended by an unusually large number of members.

The Earl of Donoughmore,

in rising to move that the bill be read a first time, said, he was deeply impressed with a sense of the important situation in which he was placed, by being selected to advocate the claims of the Roman Catholics in that House. He had lately had communications with some of the first men in the kingdom on both sides of the question, the result of which induced him to believe, that in the progress of the bill through the House such amendments would be made as would remove every material objection that might be entertained on the part of the Catholics to the measure, without at the same time failing to give those securities which the Protestant establishment in church and state had a right to require.

The Earl of Liverpool

said, that the bill was itself of the greatest importance, and coming, as it did, recommended by the House of Commons, it was in every respect entitled to their most serious consideration. That consideration he was certain it would receive, and whatever their lordships' decision might be, he trusted, that the question would be discussed with all that moderation which had hitherto characterised its progress. Having him- self taken an active part in many former discussions, he felt that, he should not act candidly towards the House or the noble lord, if he did not declare, that when it came to the second reading, he should feel it his duty to object, as an individual, to the measure. The bill was divided into two parts; the first went to the removal of the political disabilities imposed on the Catholics; the second, to the regulation of their ecclesiastical establishment. To both those parts, as they now stood, he should be under the necessity of objecting. He could not agree to confer upon them privileges to the extent proposed, and even if his mind were made up to grant those privileges, he should still be obliged to object to the clauses relating to the Roman Catholic clergy. Those enactments appeared to him to take away all the grace of concession; many of them were unjust and many impolitic, and calculated to defeat the ends of those by whom the bill was proposed.

The Earl of Donoughmore

said, that with respect to one of the points alluded to by the noble earl, he felt exactly as he did; but he was sorry the noble earl did not agree with him in the general principle or the bill. If the Roman Catholics entertained sentiments opposed to the principles of the constitution, he should object to grant them the proposed relief; but he was convinced, they were as loyal as the members of any other persuasion. The noble lord alluded, in terms of praise, to the manner in which the other House had met the wishes of the friends of the Catholics, and observed, that if the Catholics were not grateful for the conduct of the Protestants, who had sacrificed many prejudices in their behalf, they did not deserve the support which they had received.

The Lord Chancellor

apologised to the House for troubling them in such a stage, even upon so interesting a subject; but, having read the bill, and looked at that part of it which referred to the office which he had the honour to fulfil, he thought it necessary to state, that he could not agree to a measure of such vast alteration. Notwithstanding his great respect for many noble lords from whom he differed, and for the recommendation of the other House, he had no difficulty in stating, that though, on retracing his former opinions, he would not hesitate to change them if he thought they were wrong, he had every reason to conclude, that it would be impossible to introduce any modifications which could induce him to consent to the bill. He would, however, bestow his best reflection oh the subject between this and the second reading.

The bill was read a first time.