§ The order of the day being read for the farther consideration and second reading of the Bill, intituled "An Act "to deprive Her Majesty Caroline Amelia Elizabeth of the Title, Prerogatives, Rights, Privileges, and Exemptions of Queen Consort of this Realm, and to dissolve the Marriage between His "Majesty and the said Caroline Amelia Elizabeth;" and for hearing counsel for and against the same; Counsel were accordingly called in.
Then Lieutenant Hownamwas called, in order that he might produce his diploma of the order of Saint Caroline; but not being in attendance, the attorney-general of the Queen tendered the same to the House, stating that it came out of the custody of Mr. Vizard the Queen's solicitor. The Counsel were informed, that it must be delivered in by lieutenant Hownam himself.
§ Then John Allen Powell, esq. was again called in, and farther examined by the Lords as follows:
Lord Chancellor.—You have been directed to attend, to deliver in certain papers sealed, are you prepared to deliver in those papers? In obedience to the orders of the House, I hold in my hands the papers which are required of me, and I beg it may be considered by the House, that my objection to the production of them did not arise from any thing personal to myself, but from a sense of the character in which I stood.
The Marquis of Lansdownsuggested, that Mr. Powell should be desired to state what the papers were which he had brought.
The Earl of Lauderdalecould not concur in this suggestion. Mr. Powell had received an order of the House to present certain sealed extracts: he had now presented those extracts in the manner ordered by the House. Surely, therefore, it was for the secret committee to which the papers were ordered to be referred, to see if Mr. Powell had complied with their lordships' order. He could not see why the House should at first proceed to put any questions whatever to Mr. Powell.
The Earl of Carnarvonsaid, that in his opinion the suggestion was a proper one for examining Mr. Powell now as to these papers. He certainly ought to be asked whether the extracts he had brought were the whole of the extracts in colonel Browne's correspondence which related to Restelli's mission, and whether the original letters were also in the House for the verification of the extracts by comparison.
The Earl of Lauderdalesaid, his objection was not that proper inquiries should not be made from Mr. Powell for any purpose of verification that might be thought necessary; but that inquiry, he thought, should be left to the secret committee.
The Earl of Liverpoolsaid, he could not see upon what grounds the House could now put questions to Mr. Powell. They had ordered that gentleman to produce certain papers, which they had also ordered should be referred to a secret committee. The papers being now in the House, the first step to be taken was to send them to the committee.
The Earl of Darnleywas of opinion that Mr. Powell should be asked to describe the papers, and to say whether the whole of the extracts were in the sealed parcel.
§ Earl Greythought, that at present the plain course for their lordships was to send the papers to the secret committee. It would be quite time enough for the House to take the matter up when the committee had made their report.
§ The sealed packet was delivered in; and the witness was directed to attend the secret committee at the adjournment of the House.
§ The Witness was directed to withdraw.
Then Tomaso Lago Maggiorewas called in, and having been sworn, was examined as 928 follows, by Mr. Wilde, through the interpretation of the Marchese di Spineto.
Where do you live? Near the town of Como.
What occupation do you follow? A fisherman.
Were you at any time employed as a boatman to her royal highness the princess of Wales? Yes.
Do you know Giuseppe Guggiari? I do.
What is he? Another fisherman, as I am, my companion.
Were you ever in a boat with her royal highness the princess of Wales, when Pergami was there? I have been.
Did you ever see either of those persons kiss the other in the boat? No.
In what part of the boat did her royal highness sit? On the left.
Did you sit in such a situation as to see her royal highness? I did.
Had the boat lights in it? She had.
Did you sit in such a situation that, if they had kissed, you must have seen it? I did.
Are you quite sure that you never saw any kissing take place?
Mr. Solicitor General objected to the form of the question.
Mr. Wildesaid, he put the question in order to ascertain whether the witness was quite certain on this point, and, with this view, he conceived that he had a right to put as leading a question as if he were engaged in a cross examination.
Mr. Solicitor Generalmaintained, that his objection had not been at all answered by what had just been stated. In examining his own witness, if that witness had stated any thing in contradiction to what had been stated by another witness on the same side, such a question might be; but in the present case he maintained the learned counsel had no right to put a leading question.
The Counsel were informed, that if a witness gives an answer, showing that he has no doubt, he must be taken to swear positively.
Cross-examined by Mr. Solicitor General.
How many times have you conducted her royal highness from the theatre at Como to her Villa? Precisely, I cannot tell how many times, but I can positively say ten or twelve times, and even more.
Will you swear, that you have not conducted her as many as twenty times? It might be still more, but I cannot positively state how many times it might have been.
Upon those occasions, when you conducted her royal highness from Como to her Villa, how many boatmen in general were in the boat? Generally ten.
Was it after the theatre at Como was over that you were in the habit of doing this? Yes, I brought her back to the Villa.
Was it then at night? In the night.
929 Was the part of the boat in which her royal highness sat, separate from that in which the boatmen worked? The boat was all joined, but only it was divided in the middle, as it would be a carriage.
Did her royal highness and Pergami sit on one side of that division, and the boatmen on the other? Six of the boatmen were in the forepart, before the carriage, and four of them were behind.
So that her royal highness and Pergami had some of the boatmen at one end, and some of the boatmen at the other? Yes.
Was there any covering over that part of the boat in which her royal highness and Pergami sat? It was covered at the top, and had glasses in front and behind.
Were there any curtains? There was one curtain in the front, but none behind, because there were the glasses.
Were there any glasses in front? Yes, as well as behind.
Who sat in the carriage besides Pergami and her royal highness? For the most part there was the prefect; there was also a magistrate called Podestâ Parri, and a musician, Arnaboldi, a gentleman.
In going from the theatre back to the Villa, did her royal highness and Pergami sometimes go alone? Never; the boat was always full of gentlemen.
Will you swear that the boat was always full of gentlemen in going home from the theatre to the Villa d'Este? Yes.
Where did the prefect live? He sat on one side or the other of the carriage.
Where did the prefect live? He dwelt at Como.
Where did the Podestâ live? At Como.
Do you mean to say, then, that they accompanied her royal highness from the theatre of Como to the Villa d'Este every night? I cannot say that they always accompanied her royal highness from the theatre to the Villa, for sometimes they stopped at their own House; but for the most part in the boat there were many gentlemen.
Whom did you come over to this country with? We are twelve or thirteen or fourteen; I do not know how many we are.
Did you see count Vassali before you came here? I saw him at Milan.
Did he examine you as to the evidence you were to give at Milan? No.
Who was it that examined you at Milan, if you were examined there? Advocate Podazzi.
Do yon mean Codazzi or Podazzi? They told me Podazzi.
Did he write down what you said? He did.
Did you swear to the truth of it? I did.
Did Codazzi make you swear to the truth of it? He did.
How many times did you swear to the truth of it? I believe twice.
Then did you tell a different story at those two different times? No.
930 You having told one story, and had it taken down in writing, and sworn to the truth of it, what was the reason that Codazzi made you swear to the truth of it again? I have said about twice, but precisely I cannot tell.
Will you swear, that you were not sworn three times by Codazzi? I cannot say that.
When you say you cannot say that, do you mean that you will not swear that Codazzi made you take an oath three times? I cannot say it; I cannot precisely stale the times.
Though you cannot precisely state the times, will you undertake to swear that it was not more than twice? I cannot swear it, because I am in doubt.
Who was there at the time you were sworn in this way? An English gentleman.
What was his name? I do not know.
Was the name Henry? I do not know what name he had.
Was that English gentleman there each time that you were sworn? He was.
How much were you paid the first time that you swore?
Mr. Denman objected to the question, as it assumed that the witness was paid something.
Were you paid any thing, and if so, how much the first time you swore? No.
Do you mean to swear that you were paid nothing? I have received twenty Italian livres.
Do you mean to swear you received twenty Italian livres the first time you were sworn? It was on my setting out on my departure.
Do you mean to say, it was on your departure to come to this country, or on your departure from Como to Milan? From Milan to come here.
Will you swear you never received any money before you set out from Milan to come here? Nothing.
What have you received since? Nothing.
Will you swear, that the only sum of money you have ever received for coming here was the twenty livres? They have been three half francs.
The Interpreter stated, that he had put the question what he meant by three half francs? and that the witness stated, that he meant twenty Italian livres; that he received three half francs, each franc consisting of six and twenty Italian livres.
Will you swear you have not received any thing more, or been promised any thing more? If they will give it to me, I will take it; if they do not give it to me, I came voluntarily.
Do you expect that they will give it to you? My own will has brought me here, and if they give it to me I accept it; if they do not give it to me, I have no claim.
Do you expect that they will give it to you? I cannot say any thing about hope, because I cannot tell the idea of those people who have 931 told me to come here; if they give it to me, I will take it.
Are you a married man, and have you children? I have a wife and children.
Has any thing been paid to them? There has.
How much? One livre, and my children half a livre.
Do you mean a livre a day? Yes, a livre a day.
How many children have you? Four.
Half a livre for each child? Yes.
Do you pay your own expenses here, or are they paid for you? That I do not know, they have fixed upon two Napoleons a day for the expenses.
Do you mean to say, that those two Napoleons a day are paid for your expenses? I do not know, because we have received no other money than those francs that I have mentioned.
Has any promise been made to allow you two Napoleons a day for your expenses? It has not been fixed upon.
What did you mean then, just now, by saying that the expenses were to be paid, and that they were two Napoleons a day? They have fixed upon two Napoleons, but we till now have received nothing, and we do not know how it shall turn out, how it will be.
What do you mean by saying, that they fixed on two Napoleons, who are they? Podazzi.
When you saw Codazzi, at any of the times when you met Codazzi, did you see, in the presence of Codazzi, at the time the business was going on, a young man with one eye? I have not.
Who was it that took down in writing your deposition, was it Codazzi's secretary? Podazzi.
Codazzi himself or his secretary? Podazzi.
There was no clerk there attending at that time? None.
Where do you live now? We are out of the town.
How many are there of you together? About twenty or twenty-one; I do not know precisely.
How far is it from London where you live? Five or six miles; I do not know precisely.
How far is it from the house where the Queen lives? I have not been to see the house of her majesty, and I cannot tell.
Do you all live together in the same house, the twenty-one? Yes, all.
Do you all dine at the same table? We do.
And breakfast together? Together.
And talk together? All together.
How often have you seen count Vassali or Schiavini there since you arrived? Once.
Have you seen Guggiari there? Who is Guggiari, do you mean Santino Guggiari.
The question refers to Santino Guggiari? I have.
Does he live in the same house? He lives together with us.
932 How long have you all been there? It is about a fortnight.
Was not it at the request of Santino Guggiari that you came over here? No.
Re-examined by Mr. Wilde.
Are you locked in and guarded where you live? No sentinel; there is a key in every door.
Is the door locked in the day time; can you get out when you like? In the house there is a key that locks the door, but we go to bed at night.
For whose expenses is it, that the two Napoleons a day were lo be allowed? For the witness.
For how many? For each person they have fixed two Napoleons.
How many francs does each Napoleon contain? We reckon thirteen livres, thirteen livres.
Do you know the difference between a franc and a Napoleon? I cannot make precisely the account, four silver Napoleons make a golden Napoleon.
How much is a silver Napoleon? Six livres and a half of Milan.
When you say two Napoleons for the expenses, what sort of Napoleons? Silver.
Do you know that the government of your country required an allowance to be made to your family, before they would grant passports?
Mr. Solicitor General objected to the form of the Question.
The Counsel were informed, that the more regular way would be, to ask, what was the reason for an allowance being made to his family.
Mr. Wilde.—Do you know how the allowance came to be made to your family, for what reason? The government has ordered so.
Did Guggiari stand at the same end of the boat that you did? Who is Guggiari.
Giuseppe Guggiari? Yes, he was in the same part, but behind me.
On which side of the boat did Pergami usually sit? For the most part on the right hand.
On which side did the princess sit? On the left hand for the most.
You have been asked how often you have been sworn, explain how you were sworn, what you mean by being sworn?
The Interpreter stated, that, being interrupted, he had not collected what the witness had said.
Mr. Cohen.—He said, when they took down my examination.
What do you mean by saying when you were sworn? Upon the conduct of the princess.
933 What do you mean by giuramento? Upon the depositions which I gave to Podazzi, there the oath took place, or there was the oath.
Describe all that you did? I have deposed upon all those things that they have asked me, and I have said all those things which I have seen, and upon this the oath was (Su di questo é slato il giuramento.).
Describe all that you did the first time you saw Codazzi? The deposition.
How was it taken? The deposition was this, that I have said that I had been in the service.
Did you do any thing? How, I do not understand.
What did you do when you took the oath? The deposition of those services which I had done to the princess.
Was there any book there? There was no book.
Was there any cross there? No, I believe not.
Did you kiss any book or any cross? Nothing.
Mr. Solicitor General.—When you took the oath, which you say you have taken, did you hold up your three fingers in this way.
Mr. Wilde objected to the question.
The Counsel were informed, that the Witness having said, that he took an oath, he should be required to explain what he meant by that; and that he might, therefore, be asked when he said he took an oath, what did he mean by that?
Mr. Solicitor General—The witness, on cross-examination, had said, that he took an oath, and his learned friends on the other side, in order to do away the effect of that answer on their lordships' minds, had asked him questions as to the forms of oaths in this country.
The Lord Chancellorthought, the best way would be, to ask the witness what he did when he took the oath.
Mr. Broughamsaid, that he and his learned friends had put that very question some five or six times; but the witness, whose intellect was not very acute, always went into an account of what he said, about what the princess of Wales said; and thus they did sot seem to make any progress at all.
Mr. Solicitor Generalcomplained that his learned friends were by no means fair: first, they put their questions to this witness generally, and then, not being answered to their satisfaction, they put particular ones—such as "Was there a book there?" "Did you kiss the cross?" and so on. Surely, then, he was entitled to ask the witness, whether or no he held up his fingers when he swore, which he understood to be the form of the country.
The Lord Chancellorthought there was no occasion for any difficulty on this point. He 934 understood that Mr. Brougham did not hold up his hand against this witness's having held up his three fingers.
Mr. Solicitor General.—At the time when you say you took the oath, did you hold up your three fingers in this form? No, I did not.
There being a doubt whether the Witness had finished his answer, the question was directed to be again proposed.
He told me, swear to tell the truth, but he caused me to make no sign.
When he told you to swear to tell the truth, what did you say?
Mr. Brougham objected to Mr. Solicitor General proceeding in a new cross-examination.
Mr. Solicitor General was informed, that he might request one of their lordships to put the question.
Mr. Brougham stated, that he had no objection to its being now put.
The Question was proposed to the Witness.
What did I say, what did I do, to say the whole truth, to state as I have said.
Examined by the Lords.
§ Earl Grey.—Did you ever take an oath before any tribunal at any time? No.
Lord Ellenborough.—Did the rowers in this boat sit or stand? They stood.
Were not their faces towards the head of the boat? Towards the head.
How many rowers were there on that side of the carriage which you have described, which was towards the head of the boat? Six.
How many on the other side? Four.
What oar did you pull, counting from the head of the boat? The nearest to the carriage.
Which oar did you pull in the boat, counting from the head? That nearest to the carriage, behind the carriage, the nearest to the princess; there were two others behind me.
Did Guggiari pull the second oar from the stern? Yes.
Did you pull the fourth? The fourth oar, close to the carriage.
Earl of Laderdale.—Have you of late years found any defect in your eyes? About two years since they began to fail; I had been ill.
Did Guggiari, on all occasions, sit in the same position in the boat in relation to you when you and he rowed in the boat? In the same place.
Can you swear that Guggiari never was in the boat rowing the princess from the theatre, when you yourself were not there; I cannot say that I was there every time.
Earl of Cathcart.—You have stated, you rowed the oar nearest to her royal high- 935 ness, in that situation could you see over the awning, what you call the carozza? I could not.
How high did it come? As much as that [About two feet.]
Marquis of Buckingham.—Are the silver Napoleons, which you have mentioned having been allowed for the daily subsistence, what are commonly called five-franc pieces? No, they are called Napoleons.
How many livres do you conceive they consist of? You may make the account yourselves, I say that those Napoleons are six livres and a half of our money.
The Witness was directed to withdraw.
Then Chevalier Carlo Vassaliwas called in, and having been sworn, was examined as follows, by Mr. Denman, through the Interpretation of the Marchese di Spineto.
Of what place are you a native? Of Milan.
Do you understand English at all? A little.
What is your profession? I have the honour of being an equerry to the Queen of England.
Are you in any profession? None.
Have you been in any? I have been a military man.
What rank did you hold in the army? My last rank was captain in the dragoons, commanding a squadron in the late disbanded royal Italian army.
When did you first become acquainted with her royal highness? At Turano, at the Villa of general Pino.
Had you afterwards the honour of seeing her royal highness at general Pino's at Milan? Yes.
Did you dine with her at general Pino's? Yes.
In what year was that? If I remember well, about 1816 or 1317.
Do you know Pergami? I do.
Was he there at the same time? He was.
Did he dine at general Pino's? He did.
Did her royal highness invite you to accompany her on any journey at that time? Yes.
What journey? From Milan to Turin.
Did you accompany her royal highness at that time? From Milan to Turin.
Did you afterwards accompany her royal highness in her tour to Germany? Yes.
Before you set out on that journey, did her royal highness employ you in any situation in her household? I set out from Milan performing the office of vice-equerry or sub-equerry.
How long did you continue in her royal highness's service? Till the time her royal highness went to Caprili.
Do you remember what time of what year that was? I believe in the year 1818.
936 Endeavour to recollect yourself, whether that date is right? I have said I believe it was at such a time; the exact time I do not remember.
Did you enter into her royal highness's service at any subsequent time? Yes.
In what capacity? As equerry.
Have you continued in that service from that time to the present, as far as St. Omer's? Yes.
Was Pergami in her service at all the times when you were? He was.
In what employment? As a chamberlain.
Had he any thing to do with the management of the household, and the hiring of the servants? He had the direction of the house.
Was it his duly to hire the servants and dismiss them? I believe it was his duty.
Have you seen the princess and Pergami walking together at different times? I have.
Did you ever see them walking alone? Sometimes; going out from the garden under the portico.
Have you seen them riding out together on horseback or in carriages? In a carriage with others.
Did you ever see them riding or walking without attendants, except in the garden and immediately round the house? I have said, that in walking I have seen them coming out of the garden and walk under the portico solely; but by saying solely, they were not alone, for when I saw them I was myself at a little distance.
Do you know whether Pergami was received at the tables of the neighbouring families of distinction? Of what neighbourhood.
Of the neighbourhood of Pesaro? Yes.
Were you with her royal highness at Munich? Yes.
Do you remember whether her royal highness dined with her suite, with the king of Bavaria? Yes.
Do you know whether Pergami dined at the table with the king? I do.
Did he dine with the king? He dined at the table of the king.
Do you know of any civility passing between the king of Bavaria and Pergami? I have seen the king treat Pergami with the greatest affability.
Do you know whether there was any present given? Yes.
Be so good as to mention what it was? A golden snuff-box, surrounded with brilliants, and adorned with the name of the king.
Have you seen that snuff-box in the possession of Pergami? I have.
What was the name that was upon the box? An M. and an I., which signifies Maximilian Joseph.
Was there any crown upon it? No.
Do you remember being at any time at the Barona with her royal highness? Yes.
How long were you there, when her royal 937 highness was residing there? You must mention the time, for I was there many times.
Were you there at a time when certain balls were given? I believe about six weeks.
Was that the time of the carnival? Yes.
Do you know for whose amusement those balls were given? For the amusement of the suite of the family of her royal highness, now her majesty.
What number of persons might attend ordinarily at those balls or dances? It would be difficult for me to state the precise number, but about fifty people.
Does that include the whole company, her royal highness's suite as well as the visitors, who came? All.
Do you remember whether any of the neighbouring gentry attended those balls occasionally? From the neighbourhood came the family of the tenant.
The tenant of the Barona farm? Yes.
When you say the family came, did their father and their mother come with the children? They were there constantly.
Did you ever see the prefect Tamasia there? I saw him.
The baron Cavaletti? Yes.
Did you see any clerical gentleman there? The curate of the Barona.
Did her royal highness entertain company to dinner upon those occasions? Frequently.
Were the families of the prefect Tamasia and the baron Cavaletti there upon those occasions? Many times.
Were their wives there? Yes.
Their daughters? I do not think the daughters.
After dinner, did her royal highness and her company go into the room where the dancing was going forward? In the evening.
Did her royal highness and her visitors remain there any length of time? They came into the ball-room, and then her royal highness withdrew into the adjoining room to play.
Do you mean to play at cards? To play at cards or chess, and sometimes to play on the piano.
After her royal highness and her visitors left the room where the dancing was, did the servants and the visitors continue to amuse themselves? The servants did not come in at first, therefore they could not continue; they came in after her royal highness had withdrawn.
Did her royal highness occasionally join in the dance? She came into the ball-room, and sometimes she danced, but seldom.
Be so good as to describe the conduct of the persons who were collected upon those occasions? Most regular.
Did you ever see any thing indecent or improper in the conduct of those persons upon those occasions? Never.
You say you went upon the German tour with her royal highness, were you at Carlsruhe with her royal highness? I was.
938 Do you remember on what day you arrived at t oat place? Yes.
Mention the day? The 25th of March.
In what year? I believe 1818.
At what time of the day did you arrive? About noon.
Do you remember where you dined on the day of your arrival? I recollect that perfectly.
Where was it? At the margravine's.
Was the princess there? Yes.
And Pergami? Yes.
Madame Oldi? Yes.
Where did you sup on the first day? At the grand duke's.
Do you remember whether the baron D'Ende was the chamberlain of the grand duke? I remember it perfectly.
Do you remember where you dined the second day? At the grand duke's.
Did her royal highness dine there? Yes.
Did Pergami dine there? Yes.
And the countess Oldi? Yes.
Did Pergami and the countess Oldi remain there the whole afternoon? No.
What did they do? Pergami complained of the head-ache, and caused his sister to accompany him to the inn.
About what time in the evening was it? About five o'clock.
Did her royal highness leave the grand duke's at that time? She remained with the grand duchess.
Did you remain? I did.
Did you come away with the princess? Yes.
At what hour? Late in the evening.
What was done at the grand duke's after Pergami and the countess Oldi went home? Amongst other things, they sang.
Did you sing yourself? With the grand duchess.
On the third day where did her royal highness dine? At the margravine's.
Were you present at that dinner? Yes.
How was that evening employed? We went to the theatre, and then to sup with the grand duke.
Were her royal highness and her suite at the dinner and at the play? Yes.
On the fourth day did you remain at Carlsruhe, or go any where else? We went to Baden.
Where did you dine? At the inn.
At Baden? At Baden.
How far is Baden from Carlsruhe? I should believe about an hour's riding in the carriage.
On the day you went to Baden, where did you and the suite of her royal highness and her royal highness dine? At the margravine's.
Did her royal highness and her suite sleep at Baden on the night of which we have been speaking? On the day we set out, we reached Baden; we slept at Baden.
The following day, when you dined with the margravine, in what manner did you pass the afternoon? In amusement, in society.
939 Where was that? At the margravine's.
At what time did you return to the inn that night? About ten o'clock.
Have the goodness to mention what you did on the following day? On the following day, I believe, we dined at the grand duke's; on the evening we set out, after having taken some refreshment at home.
In the course of that journey, do you remember having gene with Pergami from Scharnitz to Inspruck about some passports? Yes.
At what time did you set off? We set out after dinner, after twelve o'clock.
About what time did you return to Scharnitz? Between two and three in the morning.
Where did you go on your return to Scharnitz, to what room? Into the room of her royal highness.
Where was her royal highness at that time? She was sitting on the bed—leaning, half-lying.
Was she dressed or undressed? She was covered with shawls, or something like it.
Was any body with her? Yes.
Who was that? There was Pergami, then came Schiavini, and then afterwards the countess Oldi came out of her own room.
What room was that? The room of countess Oldi was the adjoining room to that of her royal highness.
Did you see the little Victorine that morning? Yes.
Where did you see her? I saw her sitting on the bed.
On what bed? Of her royal highness.
Did you see the little Victorine with her royal highness on the bed when first you returned from Inspruck? Yes.
Did you see Mademoiselle Demont? I saw her in the room.
Was she dressed or undressed? Dressed.
Did any officer arrive from the police in the course of that morning after you returned from Inspruck? Not in the morning, but a few moments after our return.
Did you speak to that officer? Yes.
After speaking to him, did you return to the room of her royal highness? Often.
In what manner did you return often, how came you to return often? First, to give her an account we had arrived; afterwards to see whether she wanted any thing; and lastly, to give to her an account of the weather, and that they were clearing the road from the snow.
Did her royal highness's suite make any preparation for setting out from Scharnitz? Yes, we remained up the whole of the night.
You have said that you yourself were often in the room of her royal highness, did you see others of her suite there also in the course of those preparations? Yes, the same that I saw before, from time to time.
Were there beds for the whole of the suite at that inn? Straw.
Where? Below, and in the corridor near to the room of her royal highness.
940 Do you mean the corridor where the room of her royal highness opened? Yes.
Were the suite lying on straw in that corridor? I saw nobody lie, because every body had got up; because they expected us.
Do you recollect at what time you set out on your journey? At day dreak.
Had the preparations for sitting out lasted till that time? There were not many preparations to make, because we had engaged the horses the day before.
While those preparations were going forward did you see Pergami? Many times.
Did you see him at any time undressed at all? Never.
Where did you see Pergami? I saw him in the kitchen, on the stairs, at the door, and in the room of her royal highness.
Do you remember, in the course of that tour, being at Trieste? Yes.
How long did her royal highness remain there? A day and a half.
To what place did you go from Trieste? To Venice.
Were you ever at Rome with her royal highness? Yes, many times.
Do you remember one time when her royal highness went from Rome to Sinigaglia? I remember it very well.
How long did the journey last from Rome to Sinigaglia? I cannot say precisely; about three days.
Do you remember in what carriage her royal highness then travelled? Very well.
What was it? An English landaulet.
Do you remember who travelled with her royal highness, and, if you do, mention? Countess Oldi, Pergami, and little Victorine.
Who travelled as courier to her royal highness from Rome to Sinigaglia? I saw Carlo Forti on horseback.
Did you see Sacchi on horseback as courier during that journey? No.
How long had Carlo Forli been in the service? He began the service at Rome definitively, but provisionally he began from Loretto.
Can you state the occasion on which Carlo was provisionally hired at Loretto? As Forti was acquainted with the city of Rome, being a Roman, he was sent with a dispatch for this object.
Was Sacchi a courier in her royal highness's service at Loretto? Yes.
Was he sent to Rome with any dispatches? Not that I know.
Do you remember any circumstance that prevented his being sent? I believe they spared him because he was tired; I do not know it, but I believe so.
Do you remember whether the princess or Pergami had any padovanello? No.
Do you know whether any of the suite had any padovanello? I think that Louis Pergami had one.
Will you describe what sort of a carriage that was as to the springs and so on? A pa- 941 dovanello is a carriage which can contain but one person, without springs, and with two shafts and two wheels.
Did you ever see her royal highness ride in such a carriage as that? Never.
Have you ever seen any dance performed by a person of the name of Mahomet? Very frequently.
Was that ever in the presence of her royal highness? Sometimes, I believe, she saw it from the window.
Upon those occasions did Mahomet do any thing indecent with his dress? It was a most simple dance; by no means indecent.
Be so good as to mention whether, when her royal highness was residing at Pesaro, persons of rank were in the habit of visiting and receiving visits from her? She received all the persons of condition of Pesaro.
Do you remember the legate? Very much.
Was he frequently at her royal highness's villa? At one time he was very frequently.
Do you mean that he paid visits of some days occasionally? Those visits lasted some time.
What is the name of that legate? Monseigneur Gandolfi.
Do you remember the marquis Antaldi? I remember three brothers of the name of Antaldi.
Did any of them hold any office? Two had no employ, one was an architect; he was an architect for amusement, not by profession.
Was either of them a prefect? No.
Were those persons in the habit of visiting her royal highness? Very frequently; almost every day.
Did any of them hold any office under government? Yes, the marquis Antaldo Antaldi.
What office was it? He was at the head of the commune of the district of Pesaro.
Did Pergami visit in their houses? In all houses.
Do you know whether he was received by persons of distinction when he was not in attendance upon her royal highness? Yes.
Was he so received? I have said he was received.
Have you been at the houses of such persons with Pergami? Many times.
At Rome was her royal highness in the habit of frequenting intercourse with persons of rank and distinction? With the first nobility of Rome.
In all the times when you have seen her royal highness and Pergami together, have you ever witnessed the smallest impropriety of conduct on the part of either towards the other? Never.
How long have you served in the army? From the year 1805 till the year 1815.
Have you the honour to bear any orders? I was honoured with the order of the iron crown at my return from the Russian campaign.
942 Cross-examined by Mr. Attorney General.
You say you were in the army from 1805 to 1815, what was your rank in the army when you first entered it? A guard in the guard of honour, in the first company of the viceroy of Italy.
Do you mean one of the common soldiers, or had you any other rank in the army at that time? When I say guard, I mean a simple soldier in the guard of honour.
What guard of honour? The guard of honour of the king of Italy.
When was the first time that you were in company with her royal highness? At Turano, a country house of general Pino.
About what time was it, that you were first in the company of her royal highness? After she had returned from the long voyage.
In what year? I believe it was in 1817.
How often had you seen her royal highness before you were invited to go with her to Turin? I saw her at Turano; I saw her at the house of general Pino, and I saw her at the Villa d'Este.
Had you seen her only three times before you were invited to accompany her to Turin? I have not said that I saw her three times; I only said, that I saw her in three places; I saw her several times.
Who was it that applied to you to accompany her royal highness to Turin? Her royal highness herself.
Where? At the Barona.
You have said, that when first you entered her royal highness's service your office was that of sub-equerry, what salary had you attached to that office? Nothing.
What salary had you as equerry? Two hundred Louis a year.
How long did you continue sub-equerry? Till we arrived at Caprili.
When was that? I believe it was about the year 1818.
When was it you first quitted her royal highness's service? I did not leave the service of her royal highness; I received a letter of dismissal at St. Omer's to retire.
Do you mean to say, that from the first time, you entered her royal highness's service, to accompany her to Turin, you remained with her till you came to St. Omer's? I set out from Caprili to Milan with dispatches; and I was absent from the family a whole year, for affairs of my own family.
When was it you set out from Caprili to Milan with those dispatches? On the day after we reached Caprili.
Did you rejoin her at Caprili, or where was it you rejoined the princess after you had been that year at Milan? I did not leave the service; I went to Milan with dispatches; I remained there for affairs of my family, and I was recalled back to the Villa Vittoria by a letter.
The Villa Vittoria is at Pesaro, is it not? A mile distant from Pesaro.
943 In what year was it you joined her royal highness at the Villa Vittoria? 1819.
Are you to be understood that you continued with her royal highness from that time till you left her at St. Omer's? Yes.
You have said, that you accompanied her royal highness to Munich, and that Pergami dined there at the king's table, did he dine there more than once? Yes.
How often? I cannot precisely say.
How long was her royal highness at Munich? I believe between ten and fifteen days; I do not know precisely.
Where did she dine the first day when she arrived at Munich? I believe at the inn.
Where did she dine the second day? I think with the king.
Where was she in the evening of the second day? I do not know.
Where did she dine the third day at Munich? I cannot mention precisely where we dined every day.
Where did she spend the third evening at Munich? The third day I do not know.
Where did she dine on the fourth day at Munich? I have said that I cannot fix where she dined precisely every day.
Where did she pass the evening of the fourth day at Munich? Some evenings we spent at the king's, some evenings at the prince Beauharnois; but I do not know which each evening. I do not know how to fix how we passed each evening precisely.
Do you remember how many times you dined with the king at Munich? With the king, I believe twice; and at the state table of the king, I believe two or three times, or thereabouts.
Where did you go from Munich? I believe, but I cannot precisely say, to Nuremberg.
How long did you stay at Nuremberg? I believe two days.
Where did you go from Nuremberg? I do not remember.
You do not remember to what place you went from Nuremberg? Precisely—no, I cannot tell.
How long were you upon that tour? I should suppose three months, thereabouts.
How many days were you at Carlsruhe? From the 25th to the 30th of March.
How many days? Six days, including the days of arrival and of setting out.
What time of the day did you set out from Carlsruhe? In the evening.
Before or after dinner? After dinner.
How far is the inn at Carlsruhe from the grand duke's palace? I cannot precisely state, it is little; about three minutes riding in a carriage.
How far is the margravine's palace from the inn? Nearer than that of the grand duke.
At what hour did you dine at Carlsruhe, when you dined with the grand duke? About three o'clock.
944 How long did you sit at table, during and after dinner? About an hour and a half.
What time did the evening parties or the theatre begin? The theatre began at one hour, and the Conversazione at another.
At what hour did the theatre commence? I believe between half past five and six.
At what time did the evening parties—the Conversazione commence? There was no fixed hour.
About what hour? About half past seven or eight.
Where was it you dined at Carlsruhe the first day? At the margravine's.
Was Pergami there? Yes.
Are you quite sure that he dined there the first day? Yes.
Where did you dine the second day? At the grand duke's.
Did Pergami dine there? Yes.
Will you swear that he dined there that day? Yes.
Did he dine in company with her royal highness every day you were at Carlsruhe? Yes.
What day was it after your arrival at Carlsruhe, that Pergami you say was taken ill? On the second day.
About what time was he taken ill? After dinner.
Soon after dinner? From half past four to five o'clock.
You say that he returned to the inn, did he rejoin your party that evening? When we went home.
About what time did you return home? I believe between half past seven and eight.
What makes you remember so precisely where you dined every day when you were at Carlsruhe, and you cannot recollect where you dined when you were at Munich? A man may remember one thing, and may not remember another, without being able to assign any cause.
You have said, that when you returned with Pergami to Scharnitz, you returned between two and three o'clock in the morning; is that so? Yes.
What time that morning did you set out from Scharnitz? At day-break.
About what hour? I should think between six and seven; towards seven o'clock.
What month was it? I know it was very cold, it was during the winter; but I cannot remember the precise month.
Was it broad day-light when you set out? Neither light nor dark, it was about daybreak.
Then it was not broad day-light? About day-break, we might see very well.
What preparations were you making for the journey you have been talking about, after your return? For the country people to go and clear away the snow, for we could not travel without taking away the snow.
What preparations were you making at the inn? I have not said that they were making 945 preparations; I have said that preparations were made, and I meant, that is to order the country people to clear away the snow.
Did not you go to rest after your return from Inspruck? No.
You sat up the whole night or morning? Yes.
What were you about during the whole of that time? I have said, that I went often backwards and forwards into the room of her royal highness; we went and prepared something to eat for ourselves, for there was nobody that could do it for us.
How many times did you go into her royal highness's room? Many times, without being able to mention the precise number.
For what purpose did you go so frequently into her royal highness's room? Sometimes to give her something to eat, sometimes to mention about the weather, sometimes to tranquillize her mind about clearing away the snow, because she wanted to set out immediately; and sometimes to ask her what she wanted.
Did you carry her something to eat? No; but I entered her room when they carried it.
What time was that? It was about five or six.
Was that shortly before you set out? Naturally, we set out about seven.
Where did you see Pergami during the course of that morning? In many places.
What was he doing? The same that we were doing.
You were understood to say, you were doing nothing, you were not making any preparations? A person is not easy, he is always in movement when he is obliged to wait upon a personage of that quality; a peris in eternal movement.
How far is Scharnitz from Inspruck? Do you wish to know the distance in miles, or in regard to the time that a person is requisite to employ?
In miles, if you know? In miles, I do not know precisely.
How long were you in going from Scharnitz to Inspruck? About four or five hours, thereabouts.
You went back from Scharnitz to Inspruck? Yes.
With Pergami? Yes.
On horseback? No, in a sledge as far as a certain place, and then we went in a carriage by post.
At what time did you set out from Scharnitz to go to Inspruck? I believe about noon.
Where did you come from when you first arrived at Scharnitz? We came from Inspruck; we passed through Inspruck.
Had you travelled from Inspruck to Scharnitz on the same day that you returned from Scharnitz to Inspruck? I believe we stopped in a bad inn, but about the time I cannot precisely state.
How long had you been travelling on that 946 day when you arrived at Scharnitz? I cannot precisely state.
About how long? Do you wish to know when I went there with her royal highness, or when I went there alone?
You accompanied her royal highness to Scharnitz? Yes.
How long had you travelled on that day when you arrived at Scharnitz? I do not remember.
Do you remember at what time in the morning you had set out on your journey on that day? From where.
From the place that you came from to Scharnitz? I do not.
Had you been travelling many hours on that day when you arrived at Scharnitz? Some hours, but I do not know the time precisely.
Did you stay at Scharnitz, or did you immediately return to Inspruck, in consequence of the mistake about the passports? I remained a very little time, about an hour.
Then you returned about two or three o'clock in the morning; were you not very much fatigued with your journey? For a man who has performed campaigns, it is not possible to be tired so.
Will you swear that after your return from Inspruck, you never, lay down to sleep till you set out again? I swear it.
Were you never lying down upon the straw, for the purpose of resting yourself? Never for a moment.
Did Pergami repose himself at all after his return from Inspruck? I did not sec him rest.
Were the carriages unloaded at Scharnitz? No.
How many carriages accompanied her royal highness, when she went from Rome to Sinigaglia? Four.
At what time did you set out from Rome? About ten in the evening.
It was very hot weather, was it not? Not during the night.
In the day? During the day, very much.
Who travelled in the first carriage? Her royal highness, countess Oldi, Mr. Pergami, and the little Victorine.
Who in the second? I believe Mr. Hownam, mademoiselle Demont and mademoiselle Brunette.
Who in the third? Mr. William Austin, myself, and a servant on the box.
Who in the fourth? I believe they were servants.
Was Louis Pergami upon that journey? No.
Camera? I believe not.
What servants were there in the fourth carriage? If I do not deceive myself, there were Soliman, and a Greek servant, whose name I do not remember.
Where did you stop the first morning after you set out from Rome? At Otricola.
Where the second? I believe at Nocera.
947 Do you remember whether it was the intention of her royal highness on the second morning to have stopped at a place called Foligno? I did not know the intention of her royal highness.
Do you remember any person being sent on from Foligno to order horses for the purpose of continuing the journey to Nocera? I do not.
Where did you arrive on the third morning? I do not know precisely whether we arrived at Sinigaglia, or whether it was the fourth day.
Do you remember stopping at Fano? Yes.
How long did you stop at Fano? I think a little time; an hour, or two hours; I cannot precisely state the time.
At what time did you arrive at Fano? It was during the day, but I cannot precisely state the hour; it appears to me it was day light.
Do you remember seeing the theatre at Fano? I saw it, but not with her royal highness.
Do not you remember visiting some friend of yours at Fano while you were there? I do.
Did riot you desire Forti to apprize your friend at Fano that you should be there, and see him? Yes.
Did not Forti set out before you to Fano, and did you not desire Forti, on his arrival at Fano, to apprize your friend that you were, coming? I believe he arrived a few moments before.
Did you not desire Forti, when he set out from the stage preceding, to apprize your friend at Fano that you were coming there? I did not order Forti to go before, to tell to my friends; but I told him, if he should arrive at Fano before us, to tell my friend that I was coming.
Do you remember seeing Sacchi at Fano? No.
Will you swear you did not see him at Fano? I swear it.
Do you know a place called Terni? I do.
Do you remember stopping there in your way to Sinigaglia? Yes, I think we stopped at the Piazza.
Do you remember taking any refreshment there? Something; but I do not know what thing.
Do you remember taking some ices there? Not I.
Did any body else? I have said I do not know what they did take.
Did they take any refreshment? Some thing; but I do not know whether it was hot or cold.
Where did you take it? I think in the carriage.
Who brought you the refreshment to the carriages? The servants.
What servants? I do not know.
Will you swear that Sacchi did not bring you some refreshment upon that occasion?
948 I swear that I do not remember to have seen Sacchi.
Will you swear that he was not there? I repeat again that I cannot swear that he was not there.
Do not you remember Sacchi's coming to William Austin upon that occasion, and speaking to him about the refreshment? No.
Will you swear that in the course of that journey you did not see Sacchi? I swear that I do not remember to have seen him.
Will you venture to swear, that he was not upon that journey as a courier? I cannot swear; I cannot say whether he was or was not, for I do not remember to have seen him.
Did the countess Oldi, during the whole of that journey, travel with her royal highness, or did she not occasionally change carriages? Always.
What time did you arrive at Sinigaglia? I think by day.
At what time of the day? If I am not mistaken, before dinner.
Will you swear, that it was not in the afternoon, about four or five o'clock? When I do not know a thing precisely, I do not swear.
Then you do not remember the precise time that you arrived at Sinigaglia? No.
How many, days was it after you set out from Rome, that you arrived at Sinigaglia? Three or four days.
Do you know a person of the name of, Racchi? I do.
Was he on that journey? He was.
Where did he travel, in what carriage? On the box of the carriage.
Which carriage do you mean? Of the carriage in which the femmes de chambres and Mr. Hownam travelled.
You have spoken of the balls at the Barona, and you have said that a person of the name of Cavaletti used to be at those balls; was Cavaletti in her royal highness's service at that time? No.
Where did he live? At Milan.
Do you know a person of the name of Antongina? I do.
Were his daughters at the ball? They were.
What is Antongina? A tenant of the Barona.
Besides Tamasia and Cavaletti, can you remember the names of any other persons of rank, who were ever at those balls? Yes.
Who were they? Doctor Mocattr, and the clergyman of the barona.
Any body else? I do not remember precisely.
You say there was dancing there, did you dance with the rest there? I did.
You say you know the daughters of Antongina, did you ever see any of them in any other room of the house besides the dancing room? Never.
Or any other of the females who were at that dance? Never.
949 Did her royal highness use to dance with those persons? Sometimes, generally.
Where was your family living, at the time you were at the Barona? At Milan.
Were they at those balls? None of them had been presented to her royal highness before that time.
Do you know the wife of Pergami? I do.
Was she ever at any of those balls? Never.
When was it you last saw Pergami? Last month in coming from Rome.
Where did you see him? At the Villa Vittoria.
Any where else? You asked me to the last time, and I have answered to the last time; I saw him there; I saw him also at Milan.
Did you see him at the Villa d'Este? No, not now.
At the Barona? Yes.
And at Milan? The last time at Milan.
Were you frequently with him? Yes.
And with general Pino? With general Pino I was alone.
Did you not apply to many persons to come over as witnesses upon this occasion? They offered themselves.
Have you not engaged to indemnify several of them for coming over? It is not my character to recruit.
That is not an answer to the question; have you undertaken to indemnify any persons who have come over here? Not I; the whole thing was done by the advocate Henry; I have done nothing.
Have you made no agreement with any of the persons who have come here, to pay them, or indemnify them for coming here? I have not made any agreement; I have executed the agreement which has been made by the advocate Henry.
What agreement have you made at the request of Mr. Henry, and with whom?
Mr. Brougham objected to the Question.
How many agreements have you executed at the request of Mr. Henry? To the poor people, the agreement is ten livres per day for their support, during their absence a franc a day to each of their wives, and half a franc a day to each of their children; this agreement has been made, because the passports would not he granted without, securing something for the support of the family.
Have you made no agreement to pay any witness who has come over here, any money, for coming over here? I have made no agreement to pay; Mr. Giarolini, the head master, before I set out, said, that he suffered damage, then the advocate Henry stated, that the English laws granted an indemnification for what they might lose during their absence; consequently it has been ordered, or rather requested, of architect Ratti, that he should make an account of what his loss might be; this was done on a stamped paper, and it has been fixed to be 3,000 livres of Milan; this 950 sum, according to this account made by the advocate Henry, I have paid to the son of the head master Giarolini.
Have you not given money for any person's to give evidence upon this occasion? Not to be a witness, never; I have given, at the departure of eighteen or twenty witnesses, by the order of advocate Henry, a small sum of two or three Napoleons, on account of the ten francs per day, which thing I have explained to all the witnesses.
By whom were you employed to give this money to the witnesses? Advocate Henry has requested me.
How long have you been in England? I have been three times.
When was the first time you came? When her majesty was at Geneva.
When the next time? The second time, when she came from Paris.
You were understood to say, you left her royal highness at Saint Omer's? It is true.
How long after that was it that you came to England? Six or seven weeks.
What was the occasion of your coming to England then? I was sent for.
By whom? By her majesty the Queen.
How long were you in England upon your coming upon that occasion? The second time I was here eight or nine days.
Did you not go out on the part of her majesty to collect witnesses, at Milan, and elsewhere, for her? I was sent to Milan to render it easy for those who wished to come for her majesty to come.
How many persons had you communication with there as witnesses? Forty or fifty.
How many persons came over with you the last time? Two witnesses.
Who were they? One was Bonfiglio Omati, the other was Pasquelle Lago Maggiore.
Did Omati come as your servant? I did not want him, because I had a servant.
That is no answer; did he hot come in the character of your servant, and was he not represented to be so? He came as a witness for her majesty the Queen.
Did not you represent him to be your servant when you quitted the Austrian states? Never.
Did you frequently see Pergami when you were at Milan? Sometimes.
Frequently? Frequently.
Every day? No.
Did you not see him every day you were there, either at Milan or at the Barona? No.
Or at general Pino's? At general Pino's, never.
How long were you at Milan? At intervals, two months at a time.
Did you go to Pesaro the last time you were abroad? Yes.
Did you see Pergami at Pesaro? Yes.
Did you travel with him from Pesaro to Milan? No.
Did be go before or did he follow you?
951 He did not follow me; he came a few days after.
How long were you at Pesaro? Haifa day.
What was the occasion of your leaving her majesty at St. Omer's? I had not left her majesty at St. Omer's by my own will, I should have followed her willingly even into England; she thought proper to give me my dismissal.
How many of her majesty's suite left her at St. Omer's? Mr. Pergami, the little Victorine, two maids, and three or four servants.
Did you go with Pergami from St. Omer's? Yes.
Where did you go to with him? To Paris.
Did you take the little Victorine to Paris? Yes.
Did you live with Pergami at Paris? Yes.
Where? At the hotel of Frescati, Rue Richelieu.
Was he there the whole of the time you were at Paris? All the time I was at Paris I was with Pergami.
The whole time at the hotel of Frescati, or in any other place? No, we dismounted at a little inn, where we remained two days, and then we went to the hotel Frescati.
Who paid the expenses of that journey, when you accompanied Pergami? I did.
Did you pay for Pergami as well as for yourself? I paid for the expenses of the journey, and I was reimbursed.
Reimbursed by whom? By Pergami.
In what carriage did you travel from St. Omer's? A carriage for three people.
Was that one of her majesty's carriages in which you travelled up to St. Omer's? I believe it was one of the carriages.
Had Pergami and yourself any more, than one carriage? Two carriages.
Were they both carriages that had belonged to her majesty? No.
What was the other carriage then? A German carriage; I do not know to whom it belonged.
Was not that one of the carriages which had accompanied her royal highness up to St. Omer's? It was.
What servants accompanied you and Pergami to Paris? Francesco Serra, Amelio, Carnaghi, Agustino, Govin, and Marsigliani; I believe there was another, whose name I do not remember precisely.
Did you accompany Pergami to Italy from Paris? No, because I was here.
You came from Paris here? Yes.
Did you leave Pergami at Paris, or did he set out? I left him at Paris.
Did you afterwards see him at Paris? Not afterwards.
Where did you next see him after you went abroad again? The first time I saw him at the Villa Vittoria, at Pesaro.
Where did you last see the countess Oldi? At her own house.
W here was that? At Crema.
Had her majesty any lady of honour with her after countess Oldi left her? No.
952 Did the countess Oldi travel from Pesaro to Crema with her royal highness? I do not think she did; I am sure almost; no.
You were upon that journey, were you not, when her royal highness came to England from Pesaro? Yes.
Did the countess Oldi travel with her any part of that journey or not? No.
Where did you leave Louis Pergami? We left him at Pesaro, I believe, or at Milan.
When did you last see the mother of Pergami? At Milan.
When? Every lime I was at Milan.
Have you ever seen Pergami's wife? I have.
Have you ever seen her at the Barona? I believe I saw her one day.
When? When I was the last time at Milan.
Was Pergami there then? He was.
He was at the Barona? Yes.
Where was the little Victorine, do you know? At Paris.
With whom? With two young ladies.
What young ladies? The same that set out from St. Omer's.
The last time that you saw Victorine was at Paris, with two of the servants of her majesty, who had left her at St. Omer's? We travelled together.
You travelled together to Paris? Yes.
Was Victorine in the same hotel with you at Paris, or was she placed in any other house? Yes.
With those two female servants? Always.
Did those servants take care of Victorine? Yes, because they did not like to return home.
Was the little Victorine at the Barona when you were there last? No.
What salary have you now from her majesty? I have no salary; I have a pension.
What is your pension? The same I had when I was an equerry.
How much is that? About two hundred Louis.
How many francs? About 4,800 or 5,000 francs.
Where does your family live now? The family of my father in Milan; my wife in London.
Where is your wife living in London? At Sablonière's hotel.
Where are you yourself living? At the same place.
Who pays the expense of yourself and your wife being here? Till now I have not paid the account; I do not know.
Who is to pay? I believe that being here as a witness for her majesty, it is the government who is to pay it.
Have you received any money from any person since you have been in England? Never; nay, I have not been paid for the journey.
Did you take out any money with you when you went to Milan the last time? I do not travel without money.
953 Who gave you the money to go out to Milan? To go to Milan, I received 100l. from Mr. Coutts.
On whose account did you receive that? For the journey.
Who gave you the order on Coutts to receive the 100l. Her majesty the Queen.
Did you not take with you also a letter of credit when you went to Milan? No, nothing.
Did you receive any money from Marrietti while you were at Milan? I received it by the order of Mr. Henry.
How much? I think fifty-two thousand livres of Milan.
Is that all you have received? The whole.
Either there or in England? At Milan, and something whilst I was at Venice.
How much at Venice? I believe a hundred Napoleons, that was all included.
Who travelled with you to Venice? I went there with the son of Mr. Wood.
What did you go to Venice for with the son of Mr. Wood? To acquire some knowledge about a person whom it was necessary for me to know.
Did Mr. Wood travel with you any where else? We went from thence to Milan.
Who paid the expenses of your journey to Milan, when you were with Mr. Wood? I.
Did you travel with any other person besides Mr. Wood, when you were in Italy? With a courier and my servant.
With no other gentleman when you were in Italy? In going from hence to Italy with the son of Mr. Wood, a courier, and my servant.
Whilst you were abroad in Italy, did you never travel with any other persons except Mr. Wood and your servant? Yes.
Who? Mr. Mioni.
Who else, in Italy or any where else, since you have been abroad? In Italy with Mr. Mioni; I do not remember any body else in any other place.
Do not you remember to have travelled with any other persons besides Mr. Wood, while you have been abroad? No.
Are you sure you have travelled with no other person than Mr. Wood, with no other gentleman, English or foreign? I do not recollect.
Where did you travel to, besides Venice and Pesaro? Rome.
Did you go to Switzerland? Never.
From Rome, did you return to Milan? Yes.
What countryman are you? Of Milan.
Have you any other fortune besides the pension you derive from her royal highness? I have some property of my own.
Where is Francesco Serra now? At Hammersmith.
Examined by the Lords.
Earl of Liverpool.—Do you know whether any person slept in the princess's room at Scharnitz? No.
Do you mean that you do not know whe- 954 ther any person slept there, or that you know that no person slept there? As far as I know nobody slept there.
Lord Ellenborough.—Did you say that Carlo Forti was first taken into her royal highness's service at Loretto? I said that Carlo Forti entered her royal highness's service at Rome, and that previously he set out from Loretto with a dispatch.
Did you ever see Carlo Forti in her royal highness's service before you saw him in her service at Rome? From Loretto to Rome, provisionally.
Did you accompany her royal highness in her journey from Milan to Loretto? Yes.
Did you see Carlo Portion that journey? Carlo Forti set out as a private individual, but not as a courier; they did him the favour to take him, in order that he might see his brother at Rome, not as a courier.
Did Carlo Forti, in point of fact, accompany her royal highness in her journey from Milan to Loretto? No, not as a courier.
§ Earl Grey.—Did he travel in her royal highness's suite in her journey from Milan to Loretto? From Milan to Loretto, he travelled in the suite of her royal highness.
And at Loretto he entered provisionally into her royal highness's service? He did not enter provisionally into the service, but he was dispatched provisionally, just as another courier would have been.
Did Carlo Forti go from Loretto to Rome at the same time with her royal highness, or did he go before? Yes.
He went with her royal highness from Loretto to Rome? Yes.
Are you rightly understood, that on the second night of her royal highness's residence at Carlsruhe she returned from court to the inn at between seven and eight o'clock? Between seven and eight o'clock.
Lord Calthorpe.—When you returned from Inspruck to Scharnitz, did you immediately upon your arrival at Scharnitz, go into her royal highness's room? Yes.
Was Pergami with you? Yes.
Are you certain that from the moment of your arrival at Scharnitz continual preparations were going on in her royal highness's room for leaving the inn? I have never said that there were preparations in the room of her royal highness.
Are you certain, that from the moment of your arrival there, there were other persons besides Pergami and the princess continually in that room.
Mr. Brougham.—With very great submission to your lordships I must state that this question cannot be put. The question assumes the witness to have said that Pergami rested in that room, a circumstance which he never had stated.
The Question was withdrawn.
Do you know how many beds there were in her royal highness's room at Scharnitz? I saw one.
955 Do you know what the ordinary time of going from Scharnitz to Inspruck is by the post? According to the road; if there is snow it requires more time; if there is not snow, we go in less time.
About how many hours do you suppose you had been without rest upon your arrival at Scharnitz from Inspruck? In going, in stopping, and in returning, I was from noon till next morning when we set out.
Do you recollect, in her royal highness's bed room at Scharnitz, whether there was any mattress on the floor of the room? No.
Are you sure there was not one? There was not.
Do you recollect any one place where you saw Mahomet perform that dance which you have before mentioned? Yes.
Did you see him perform that dance at the Villa d'Este? Yes.
Do you recollect whether the princess was present when that dance was performed? I believe that once she was at the window.
Are you certain whether she was at the window or not? I have said that I believe she was at the window; I cannot speak with certainty.
Do you remember any lady of distinction, of respectability and character in your own country, ever having witnessed such a dance? In my presence, I do not remember that there was any other lady.
Do you know whether that dance is called by any particular name? No.
Is it very like any other dance of which you do know the name? No.
Do you ever remember any lady of distinction, or of respectability and character, in your own country, ever having witnessed precisely that dance? I have already said no.
Was Mahomet among the servants that were dismissed by her majesty on her arrival at St. Omer's? It was already three years since he had gone away.
Earl of Cathcart.—You have stated, that at Munich her royal highness dined with the king of Bavaria, and that you were also present, did her majesty the Queen of Bavaria dine at table on that occasion? She did.
Was that the only time that her royal highness dined at the king's table? Her royal highness dined there several times.
Earl of Lauderdale.—When did you last see the countess Oldi? When I went to fetch her, at Dover.
When was that? About a fortnight ago.
Is she now in England? She is.
When did you last see Faustina? I have not seen her for two or three years.
When did you last see Francesco the Raggionato? The last time I was at Milan, about six weeks ago.
When did you last see Bernardo? Also.
When did you last see Pietro? Who is Peter.
The nephew of Pergami? I have not seen him.
956 Who worked in the stables? No.
When did you last sec Carlini? I do not know who Carlini is.
The following questions were put at the request of Mr. Brougham: Did you see any thing in the dance of Mahomet, as you yourself saw it, which any lady of distinction and character might not in your opinion have witnessed? Without doubt it was a ridiculous dance, no more.
Do you mean, that there was any thing improper or indecent in it? Nothing at all.
When her royal highness returned the second night she was at Carlsruhe, from the palace to the inn, did you accompany her? I did not.
When did you go there? When she returned home, between seven and eight.
That is the time as to which you are asked, did you accompany her? Yes, between seven and eight.
Into what room of the inn did you accompany her royal highness? The saloon.
Whom did you find there? Pergami and his sister, and another person of the suite came to meet her.
Was Pergami dressed at that time? He was in a uniform.
How was her royal highness dressed at that time? I cannot remember how she was dressed.
Do you recollect whether she was in a court or state dress? In a dress of great splendour.
Did her royal highness remain for any time in that room which you call the saloon? Sometime, then we went to the margravine's.
Did you all go together, Pergami accompanying her royal highness, as well as yourself? Yes.
How long did you all remain at the evening party at court after that? Till about ten o'clock.
Earl Grosvenor.—Was that the evening that Pergami was indisposed? He went away during the day, being ill; but in the evening he appeared to be no more ill, for he came to accompany us.
Was that the same evening? Yes, the second day.
Earl of Rosebery.—Did the princess remain in the saloon the whole evening, from her return from dinner till she went out to the evening party? Yes.
You have said, that you returned from Inspruck to Scharnitz at two o'clock, and that about five o'clock you went into her royal highness's room, at the time she was breakfasting; between the hours of two and five did you go into the bed-room of her royal highness? I never was more than a quarter of an hour, or half an hour, without going into her room.
The Witness was directed to withdraw.
Mr. Broughambegged to state, why he was not prepared at this hour to call another witness. He then addressed the House in the following terms: "It is of great importance for me to state to your lordships the predicament in which I and the other counsel for her majesty are placed. We have proceeded thus far with the case of our illustrious client—with what success and fulness of evidence it will remain for the House hereafter to decide. But I now have to submit to your lordships, that we find ourselves reduced to the necessity of requiring the assistance of the Court before which we are acting, and to recur to the demand made upon its justice in the outset of this proceeding, or of that part of this proceeding, which consists of the defence of her majesty. Your lordships will recollect, that, in consequence of the desire expressed by the House, we began that defence by calling a witness who had been sent over to bring from Carlsruhe a person of great distinction, and as a witness not only of the highest importance, but of every importance to the Queen's case; who was to prove not only all that was deficient in our evidence, but to negative the testimony of Kress; who was to follow up all that we had urged against the principle and the particular facts of the bill, by showing, what he alone could show, that her majesty was not the person described in the preamble—that she was not given to low habits—that she did not frequent base company—that she did not skulk from the society of her equals—and, above all, that she did not screen herself from intercourse with her friends and-family relations. On the contrary, he was to prove that long after the time to which the evidence for the bill applies—long after her majesty's return from the long voyage—she came into Germany, frequented the courts of her blood-relations and allied connexions, and in their presence placed herself with her suite, whom they received; and that there, and not in Italy, she desired to fix her abode, and had adopted measures for taking a palace, where she might in future remain. She had no wish to skulk from thence, but proposed to stay there for the rest of her days, for aught I know, in the immediate neighbourhood of her serene relatives. After what I have already proved, and after the comments on the testimony on the other side, I should consider this evidence complete, decisive, plenary, and as leaving me not one 958 single stone to remove of the ruins of the structure of the case that has been brought against her majesty. I am still deprived of this material witness, and his evidence is still withheld from the defence of the Queen in the same manner that I complained it had been withheld when the subject was last before the House. I am bound, however, in justice to his majesty's government, to acknowledge, that they have done all that in them lay to remove this difficulty: against their conduct I have nothing to otter; and that we did not sooner apply for assistance to them I trust will not be imputed to us as a fault, when it is recollected that we only knew of the obstruction a few hours before we mentioned it to the House. If we had complained by anticipation, the effect would have been to furnish the other side with a list of our witnesses. But they have used their influence in vain; the baron d'Ende, the chamberlain, who was at first so willing to come until his master refused him leave, is not now to be procured. It turns out again, that when he was applied for by the King's minister at Carlsruhe, who kindly was sent to for the purpose, permission was again refused, at least as he thought, at a private and verbal conference. Afterwards the representation was made in writing, and he was then told by Mr. Berstett, the minister, that permission had not been refused to the baron, only that no steps would be taken to compel him to come. This was stated by the same Mr. Berstett, who, I am in a condition to prove, was the very man who had compelled Kress to come over to give her evidence in support of the bill. It was then communicated to the baron, that he might go to London if he thought fit; but the baron, who was an excellent man, and would have been an excellent witness, was also an excellent chamberlain; he was a chamberlain by profession, and with all the frailties of chamberlain; for no sooner was it announced, that he might come, than it was discovered that he was ill of a fever, as if Restelli's sickness had crossed the Alps to affect him. However, it was asserted to be of serious consequence, and steps were immediately taken by him for a serious cure. This, of course, was to be a long process, and the baron finally refused to come, well knowing, no doubt, what Mr. Berstett was made of, and well knowing also on which side of the question the wishes of some 959 folks must be. I say, that his majesty's ministers used their utmost endeavours: we do not charge them at all, but they have not had plain honest Englishmen to deal with, but wily, crafty, foreign courtiers, who thought every body they had to deal with as roguish as themselves. These persons paid no attention to the representations of the King's minister; Mr. Lamb used all the arguments he could employ, and he put them forcibly and ably, but all in vain; for we know very well that there is a different inclination at the bottom as to witnesses coming for the bill and against it. Abroad they understand one another a great deal better than we understood our ministers here; and Mr. Berstett having made his representation to the chamberlain, that chamberlain could take a hint; and suddenly, with the easy compliance of an amiable good creature, and of a faithful honest chamberlain, he immediately falls sick of an illness, which it is difficult to say how he acquired, unless by some communication with Restelli. When the papers are presented to your lordships, you will find something to call for comment, but nothing to censure, in the conduct of the King's government. What I have stated is a misfortune to the Queen arising from the nature of her situation. Regarding the conduct of foreign governments, I will not argue, excepting from what I know; but her majesty feels the consequence of this state of things, and is now and for ever deprived of this important, this all-important, witness. I throw myself on your lordships with entire confidence that the court will give due weight to this statement, and will not proceed upon the new and monstrous principle, that a person accused of nine or ten charges, and who has refuted seven or eight of them, though prevented by unavoidable circumstances from giving a complete answer to the rest, is still, for the first time since justice was known in our courts, to be held guilty."
§ Counsel were then ordered to withdraw.
The Earl of Liverpoolsaid, that after the long examination of the witness who had just withdrawn, it had appeared to him sufficiently late in the day not to call another. On this account he had risen to move the adjournment, and also to lay on the table, by command of his majesty, the papers to which the learned gentleman had referred. They had been re- 960 ceived yesterday, and government immediately felt it their duty to communicate copies of them to the counsel for her majesty. It was thus that the attorney-general for the Queen had become acquainted with their contents. He was perfectly satisfied, that, when the House should have read these documents, it would be convinced that every effort had been used by ministers to obtain the attendance of the individual named; and he could say most sincerely and conscientiously, that it had been not only their duty, but their wish, for the general purposes of justice, to endeavour to secure his presence for examination at the bar. The learned counsel had therefore done no more than justice to the King's government in saying, that they have left no exertion untried to obtain the attendance of the baron d'Ende. Nothing more remains for me now but to lay the papers upon the table; what operation they may have upon the whole case hereafter, it is not for me to determine.
Mr. Broughamreplied, "I thought it my duty to give the explanation I have afforded why we did not proceed with more evidence to-day. I shall take till the next meeting of the Court to consider what course the counsel for her majesty must now follow."
§ The following is a Copy of the
§ CORRESPONDENCE
§ Relative to baron d'Ende's appearance before the House of Lords as a witness on the part of her majesty the Queen, October, 1820.
§ DESPATCH from viscount Castlereagh to Mr. Lamb, dated Foreign Office, October 5, 1820.
§ Foreign Office, October 5.
§ Sir,—I am to acquaint you that the Queen's law servants have this day represented to the House of Peers, that the baron d'Ende, a chamberlain in the service of the grand duke of Baden, and who was assigned to attend upon her majesty when princess of Wales, during the period of her visit to Carlsruhe in the year 1817, is a material witness for the Queen's defence; that the baron had actually consented (subject to the permission of his royal highness the grand duke) to give his personal attendance in London for this purpose, but that, upon his royal highness the grand duke's late return to Carlsruhe, this consent (as the Queen's agent, Mr. Leman, has deposed) was, upon the part of the grand 961 duke, distinctly refused; and the baron alleged this refusal to Mr. Leman as the sole cause of his not giving his attendance in this country. Had the Queen's law-agents applied in due time to his majesty's government, it would, under the express orders which they had received at the outset of these proceedings from his majesty, and which, in every instance pointed out by the Queen's agents, I they have uniformly and faithfully endeavoured to carry into effect, have been their duty to have addressed a request on the part of the king, their master, to the grand duke, to permit the attendance of this gentleman before the House of Peers, for the furtherance of justico.
§ The legal advisers of the Queen having re-presented, that they still continue to regard the presence of this individual as of importance to her majesty's defence, and his majesty being solicitous, with the least possible delay, to give effect to their wishes, I have received the king's commands to direct you will, without loss of time, on receipt of this despatch, proceed to Carlsruhe, for the purpose of giving, by your personal representations and exertions, the utmost possible weight to the request which, in the king's 'name, you are authorized to make to the grand duke upon this matter.
§ The British government are fully sensible of I he respect due to the law and practice of independent states with regard to the means which the sovereign power may cither be enabled, or think fit, to employ, for the purposes of inducing, permitting, or compelling its subjects to appear, in order to give evidence before the tribunals of a foreign state; but they are persuaded that, whatever may be the rule which the grand duke of Baden may think fit to lay down on such matters, his royal highness's sense of justice will suffer the benefit or the inconvenience of such rule to operate equally and with perfect impartiality on the side of the defence as well as of the charge. Now, as it appears by the evidence of Barbara Kress, that she was not only permitted, but in some measure required, to give her attendance upon these proceedings in support of the bill, at the instance of the attorney-general, no doubt can be entertained that, when you shall have brought the different course which is stated to have been pursued in the case of the baron d'Ende under the grand duke's notice, his royal highness will at once, whatever may be the temporary inconvenience to his royal highness's personal service, give orders for the baron's being permitted instantly to set out for this country, and, in the present advanced stage of the proceedings, you will consider it your duty to press that this gentleman's departure and journey may be as much as possible accelerated.
§ I should hope, that the simple statement of this case will be sufficient to give effect to the object with which you are charged: but in 962 the event of any obstacle being interposed, you will make a written representation on the part of your court, pressing this request for the grand duke's favourable consideration, as indisputably due to public justice, under the peculiar circumstances above referred to.
§ I am, &c. Signed CASTLEREAGH. To the Hon. F. Lamb, &c.
§ DESPATCH from Mr. Lamb to Viscount Castlercagh, dated Carlsruhe, Oct. 13, 1820.
§ My lord,—On the morning of the 10th I received your lordship's letter relative to the baron d'Ende. On the 11th I reached Carlsruhe, and obtained an interview with the baron de Berslett. That minister went immediately afterwards to the grand duke, and informed me, on his return from his royal highness, that the obstacles to the departure of the baron could only be overcome by an official application. The inclosed correspondence will show what steps were taken in consequence, and their result. It may be permitted me to remark, that my application has been completely successful, and that the failure of the object of his mission to this place was to be attributed solely to the unexpected reply of the baron d'Ende himself. I have the honour to be, my lord, your lordship's most obedient servant,
§ (Signed) F. LAMB.
§ To Viscount Castlereagh, K. G. &c.
§ NOTE from Mr. Lamb to the Baron de Berstett, dated Carlsruhe, October 11, 1320.
§ The undersigned, &c. has learned with regret, that the arguments which he had the honour to allege this morning in conversation with your excellency, have been insufficient to induce the government of Baden to permit the baron d'Ende, chamberlain of his royal highness the grand duke, to proceed to London.
§ Under these circumstances, it becomes the duty of the undersigned to fulfil the further instructions of his government, by representing officially to your excellency the reasons which induce him, however reluctantly, to renew a demand which has not met with the concurrence of the court of Baden.
§ The British government is fully sensible of the respect due to the law and practice of other states; it fully appreciates the repugnance which his royal highness the grand duke has felt to the details of his court being made matter of public investigation; and in proof of this, it may be permitted to the undersigned to recall to your excellency, that, upon a previous occasion, when he had requested the attendance of a fourrier of the court as a witness against the Queen, he readily desisted from the application, as soon as he was made acquainted with the sentiments and determination of his royal highness upon this subject. If he now pursues a 963 different course, it must be attributed to the difference of the circumstances.
§ The witness in question is represented to be essential to the defence of the Queen. The rights of hospitality will not be violated by his appearance; on the contrary, these seem to require, that the grand duke should contribute to the vindication of the guest of his court.
§ The permission which is demanded is still more essential to the character of the British government.
§ With whatever good faith it may act, it will not escape the attacks of malevolence, unless its demand is granted; and your excellency will not have failed to remark, that in this affair it is not sufficient to act with the most perfect purity and good faith, it is also necessary that these should be made undeniably evident to the eyes of the whole world.
§ The undersigned trusts that these considerations may be of weight enough to induce the government of Baden to change its present determination.
§ His own character for impartiality, and that of the British government for sincerity and good faith, are equally at stake.
§ The magnitude of these interests must justify the undersigned for persisting in an application which could, under no other circumstances, have received the sanction of the British government. The undersigned has the honour, &c.
§ Carlsruhe, (Signed) F. LAMB.
§ Oct. 11th, 1820.
§ To his Excellency the Baron de Berstett, &c.
§ NOTE from Baron de Berstett to Mr. Lamb, dated Carlsruhe, Oct. 13, 1820.
§ Sir,—In reply to the note which your excellency was pleased to address to me on the 11th inst., and in reference to the conversation which I had the honour to hold with you on the same day, I find it necessary in the first place to correct a most material mistake which appears to have crept into our communications.
§ The object of the propositions made to mc verbally by your excellency appeared to me to be, that the grand duke, my august master, should give to baron d'Ende not only his permission, but his orders, to proceed to England; to which I had the honour to remark, that I knew too well the fixed determination of his royal highness, never to take part directly in any thing which might relate to the solemn proceeding at this time before the tribunal of the House of Peers in England, to dare to propose to him to give any such orders to a person belonging to his court. Your excellency will recollect, that when, some time ago, you requested me to obtain permission for one of the fourriers of the court to proceed to England as a witness against the Queen, I was under the necessity of declaring to you, that I could never obtain any such permission from his royal highness.
964§ If any agents of the British government have succeeded in inducing subjects of the grand duke to proceed of their own accord to England, I have to remark to your excellency, that this could never have occurred except in the case of private individuals, not being in the service of the court, or in any official situation, and to whom nothing but a passport from the police is requisite to enable them to proceed wherever they might wish without the government ever having to take notice of such a circumstance.
§ I hope that your excellency will find in this exposition of facts relating to this object of your mission, the most convincing proofs of the impartiality and justice which have guided, and will ever guide, the conduct of my government on this subject. But as your excellency is nevertheless pleased to persist in your demand, that baron d'Ende should at least not be prevented by a refusal of leave of absence from proceeding to England, in the event of his consenting to undertake this journey; and as your excellency assures me that this witness is deemed to be essential to the defence of her majesty the Queen, his royal highness has ordered me to address immediately to baron d'Ende the letter, a copy of which is annexed, by which that gentleman is left entirely at liberty to act according to his own wishes.
§ If baron d'Ende's reply, which I transmit in original to your excellency, does not answer your expectations, your excellency will at least see by this last step, taken by my master's orders, that his royal highness, faithful to the principles he has laid down, has had no wish to hinder monsieur d'Ende from acting on this occasion according to his own freewill.
§ I beg your excellency to accept the expressions of my high consideration.
§ (Signed) The Baron DE BERSTETT.
§ Carlsruhe, 13th Oct., 1820.
§ To his Excellency Mr. Lamb, &c.
§ NOTE from Baron de Berstett to Baron d'Ende, dated Carlsruhe Oct. 11, 1820.
§ Sir,—One of the Queen of England's counsel having asserted in the House of Peers, that after receiving two letters, written in her majesty's own hand, with the view of inducing you to repair to England to give evidence in her favour, you had, with tears in your eyes, refused to accept the invitation given to you for that purpose by one of her majesty's agents, alleging that an express prohibition from your sovereign rendered it impossible for you to undertake such a journey.
§ Mr. Lamb, his Britannic majesty's plenipotentiary to the Germanic confederation, has, in consequence, been directed by his government to proceed thither, in order to take all necessary steps for prevailing on his royal highness to remove the obstacles which, it would seem, prevent your compliance with the request of her majesty the Queen of England.
965§ This minister having acquainted me with the purport of his mission, I have laid it before the grand duke, and his royal highness has commanded me, Sir, officially to inform you, that you were perfectly at liberty to act, on the present occasion, as you should think proper, and that, although his royal highness would never, nor in any manner, interfere in whatever might relate to the proceedings against the Queen of England, he, nevertheless, was ready to give you leave, on your making such a request, to proceed either to England, or to any other country which you might wish to visit.
§ The case in question being of extreme delicacy, I am directed by the grand duke to request you will return a written answer to the communication which I have the honour of addressing to you.
§ Accept, sir, the assurance of my most distinguished consideration.
§ (Signed) The Baron DE BERSTETT, Carlsruhe, Oct. 11, 1320.
§ To Baron d'Ende, one of his royal highness the Grand Duke of Baden's chamlains, &c. and master of the ceremonies.
§ NOTE from Baron d'Ende to Baron de Berstett, dated Carlsruhe, Oct. 11th, 1820.
§ Monsieur le Baron;—I have just received the letter which your excellency has done me the honour to address to me, and by which you are so good' as to inform me, "that one of the counsel for her majesty the Queen of England, has complained in the House of Lords, that, after receiving two letters which her majesty had deigned to address to me, requesting my evidence, I had refused to proceed to London, in consequence of a prohibition on the part of my sovereign; that in consequence of this statement, Mr. Lamb, his Britannic majesty's minister plenipotentiary to the Germanic confederation, has been instructed to repair hither for the purpose of removing any obstacle which, might arise to my departure; and that his royal highness the grand duke, has instructed your excellency to declare to me, officially, that I am perfectly at liberty to follow my inclination, and that his royal highness, upon my request, will not refuse a leave of absence for proceeding to England."
§ I beg leave in the first place to be allowed to correct some mistakes which appear to have crept into the allegations of her majesty's counsel. I have only been honoured with one letter from her majesty, a letter which has been delivered to me by her agent, M. Leman, to which I have replied, that the nature of my duties rendered it impossible for me to come to England, in compliance with her majesty's wishes. With respect to the tears with which I am stated to have accompanied this refusal, I am the more astonished, as my declaration was conveyed to M. Le- 966 man through one of my friends, who undertook to communicate my determination to him upon this subject.
§ In consequence of the permission which your excellency has done mc the honour to transmit to me in the name of his royal highness the grand duke, the difficulty grounded on the nature of my duties is overcome; I am extremely grieved that it is, nevertheless, not in my power to conform to the wishes of her majesty the Queen. The slate of my health is such that I could not undertake so long a journey without the greatest danger, particularly at this moment, when about to undergo a rigid course of medical treatment. Have the goodness, Sir, to explain these circumstances to Mr. Lamb, and to convey to him my regret at not being able to proceed to England.
§ I avail myself of this occasion to offer to your excellency the assurance of my highest consideration.
§ (Signed) The Baron D'ENDE.
§ Carlsruhe, Oct. 11th, 1820.