§ The Order of the day being read for the further consideration and second reading of the Bill, intituled "An Act to de- "prive Her Majesty, &c.," and for hearing Counsel for and against the same; the Counsel were accordingly called in.
§ Then Lieutenant Joseph Robert Hownam was again called in, and further examined by Mr. Tindal, as follows:
§ You were asked yesterday about the communication between the tent and the part of the vessel below the deck, was that communication open by night as well as by day? The ladder stood constantly there.
§ Have you had any opportunity of knowing, by going there by night, whether it was open or not? I have.
§ State upon what occasions that happened? I have in an evening, not knowing that her royal highness had retired, run up that ladder to go on deck, and did not find the tent was closed till I got up.
§ Was the light out upon that occasion? I imagine it was, I do not recollect to a certainty.
503§ Was the tent of which we are speaking a single tent or a double tent? It was the awning of the ship.
§ Does that imply that it was single? It was single with the exception of another piece, put round it to make it compleat probably, but the pieces having been put I do not recollect.
§ The question is, whether there was one tent or whether there were two, one exterior of the other? One only.
§ Have you any means of knowing whether the opening by which the tent was accessible on the outside was closed or not, so that it could be opened or not by a person on the outside? On board the vessel, I imagine that it could be opened from the outside certainly.
§ What was the nature of the opening, describe it if you please? As all tents are closed, the two parts of the canvas brought together, not sewed or any thing of that sort.
§ Then is the mode by which a person on the outside who wanted to go in, would do so, simply that of drawing back a part of the tent? I should think so.
§ How near was that tent placed to the steersman? It came close aft to the mizenmast.
§ Can you state, not precisely, but within about what distance that would come of the steersman? I suppose four, or five, or six feet.
§ Were there any part of the crew who were up during the night? The watch, one half the vessel's crew kept watch by night.
§ Was there a passage by the slide of this tent from the after part of the ship to the forepart of the ship? The tent occupied the whole of one side of the vessel, the other side there was a clear passage.
§ Did the duty of the crew, in the ordinary management of the vessel, carry them at any times from one end of the ship to the other? Constantly.
§ You have stated that beneath this tent there was a sofa and a travelling bed? Yes.
§ Do you know upon which of them her royal highness reposed during the night? On the sofa, I think.
§ Do you know who reposed during the night in the travelling bed? I do not know, for I never was in the lent after night.
§ Do you know whether her royal highness reposed under that tent alone during the night? I do not know, because I have not seen it.
§ Do you recollect, during the journey by land from St. Jean D'Acre to Jerusalem, whether her royal highness, during the time she reposed, was dressed or undressed? I never saw her undressed.
§ Have you any reason to know whether she was one or the other? I have never seen her during the day whilst she was reposing, consequently I have not seen her undressed.
§ Have you ever happened to go in immediately previous to your resuming your jour- 504 ney? We always dined under her royal high-ness's tent previously to our departure.
§ Are you to be understood to say, you do not know whether her royal highness was dressed or undressed during the times of lying by? I do not believe she ever was undressed during that journey.
§ State the grounds of the belief you have framed? I never saw any bed-clothes on the sofa that was placed in the tent.
§ This was with respect to the journey by land; as to the tent on board the ship, do you know whether her royal highness was dressed or undressed whilst under the tent? I never saw any bed-clothes on the sofa.
§ Do you recollect, upon any occasion, an accident happening one night, by a sea breaking into the tent? I do.
§ Be so good as to describe the nature of that accident, and what you observed? It was on the coast of Caramania, in a squall the sea broke over the quarter of the vessel, and her royal highness came down below to sleep.
§ Was the accident of that nature to call you up immediately? It was.
§ Did you see her royal highness at the moment of her coming down? I did.
§ Upon that occasion was her royal highness dressed or not? She was dressed.
§ Did you at that moment observe any body with her? The persons handing her down.
§ Who were the persons or the person handing her down? I think it was Pergami, and Mr. Flinn I think.
§ Was Pergami at that time dressed or undressed? He was dressed.
§ Do you recollect during the voyage a bath at any time being taken by her royal highness? I recollect that her royal highness did take baths on the passage home.
§ When the bath was taken, what was the description of the tub, or the implement used for a bath? It was a common bathing tub, made at Augusta by my directions.
§ Without asking you as to the precise size of it, was it of such a size that it could or could not be put into her royal highness's cabin when her bed was there? I do not think it possible.
§ During the time you were on board this vessel, did you ever see her royal highness sitting upon a gun with Pergami? I never saw that.
§ Did you ever see her sitting on a bench, either with her arms round him, or his round her? Never.
§ Did you ever see the one kissing the other? Never.
§ Did you ever perceive any impropriety or indecency of behaviour of the one towards the other, while you were on board the vessel? Never.
§ Did your duty carry you frequently upon the deck? It did; the management of the ship was chiefly in the hands of Mr. Flinn.
§ In point of fact, were you generally on deck or not, during the day? I was.
505§ Do you recollect, at any time, Pergami I dressing himself up in any particular way on board with pillows? I do.
§ Be so good as to state the occasion of that circumstance? It was in derision of the English consul at Jaffa, who came on board in long Greek robes, with a gold-laced cocked hat and a gold-headed cane.
§ Was he a pompous figure, this consul? He was.
§ Do you remember a person of the name of Mahomet, who was on board on your return voyage? I do.
§ Do you remember a dance performed by Mahomet? I do.
§ Can you remember the occasion upon which that dance was first called for? It originated in a sort of quarrel that this Arab had with the doctor; he being sick on board, the doctor wanted to give him some physic; he would not take it, and afterwards he used to laugh at the doctor, and ridicule him by this dance.
§ Was the doctor angry with him for not taking his physic? The doctor abusing him for not taking the physic was the cause of the quarrel or difference.
§ When the doctor appeared on deck was Mahomet sometimes called for? By one or the other of the suite pointing to the doctor, and saying "Mahomet, dema, dema," upon which he performed this dance.
Mr. Brougham.—I beg your pardon. This is a fact; and all that accompanies a fact is evidence.
Have you any notion of any thing indecent or improper in this dance? Not the least, more than the Spanish bolero, or the negro dance.
Have you ever seen Mahomet performing the same dance on shore? I have, frequently.
Was the dance which you saw him perform on shore the same which you have described that he performed on ship-board? Precisely.
You landed at Terracina after the long voyage? No, at Capo d'Anza.
Before you arrived at Capo d'Anza, did any one land at Terracina? There did.
Who was the person, or who were the persons, that landed at Terracina? Pergami, Camera, and, I think, Teodoro Majoochi.
Was the vessel bound to perform quarantine? We were not in port; we were then at sea.
Would the vessel, at the time of your landing, have been bound to perform quarantine? We had already performed quarantine at Syracuse and Messina, and in all probability, we should have had to finish a long quarantine at any port we should have gone to, our quarantine not being out from Messina.
What was the reason of the persons whom you have mentioned being landed at Terracina? To obtain pratique, in consequence 506 of her royal highness being so excessively fatigued, and being on board so long.
In point of fact, was her royal highness in a state of fatigue and exhaustion at the time? Very much so indeed.
Do you recollect, at the time those persons put off in the boat, who were on the deck of the vessel? Her royal highness and every body.
In what manner did those persons take leave of her royal highness? By kissing her royal highness's hand in a respectful manner.
Did each of the three persons you have mentioned kiss the hand of her royal highness? I think they did.
Did Pergami, or did he or did he not kiss her royal highness upon that occasion? Kiss her face? No, certainly not.
After the long voyage, as it is called, her royal highness went back to the Villa d'Este? She did.
Did she, during her stay at the Villa d'Este, go to the Barona? After staying some time at the Villa d'Este she went to the Barona.
What is the size of this house that is called the Barona, is it a large house, or a moderately sized house? No, it was a small country house fitted up for the purpose.
Was it a house in which any large fete could be given? Oh no.
What was the nature of the entertainments given by her royal highness at the Barona? There were no entertainments, except to the farmers' daughters, to amuse, in fact, the household.
Was the time of which you are speaking, Carnival lime? It was.
Did you ever see at those entertainments, the wives of persons, as well as their daughters? The eldest of the daughters was married; I do not recollect if any more were married, but I recollect one was married.
The question does not refer to any particular family; but did the persons who attended at those entertainments bring their wives as well as their daughters? I have seen the wife of the chevalier Tamasia and his daughters, the wife of professor Mocatti, and the wife of baron Cavalletti.
Who was the chevalier Tamasia? He had been prefect of Como for some years.
Were the other persons whom you have named, persons who resided in the neighbourhood? Yes, they were, with the exception of the professor Mocatti, who was of Como.
Do you recollect whether the clergyman of the place was there, or not? I have seen him frequently; at the dance I cannot say.
Do you mean that you have seen him frequently visiting her royal highness? Frequently.
Could you mention whether, at the dance described, her royal highness was constantly in the dancing-room, or in what manner she was situated? She was not constantly in the dancing-room, she chiefly remained in an adjoining room; she came in occasionally.
507 Did you yourself partake at those dances? Always.
Did her royal highness retire for the evening, or not, before the dances were finished? Chiefly.
Whilst you have been at those dances, have you perceived any thing either indecent or indecorous in the parties there? I have not.
Do you recollect a river that is called the Brescia, near the Villa d'Este? Yes, I do.
Of what nature is that river; describe it if you please? It is a sort of torrent, rather than a river.
Is it ever dry, or with little water in it? Certainly, with little water in it. I do not recollect ever to have seen it quite dry; when it rains, it runs with amazing rapidity.
Is it a place that people would choose to bathe in? I should think not.
Do you recollect accompanying her royal highness upon the tour into Germany? I do.
In about what part of the year did that take place? The early part of the year; I should think about March.
That was March 1817? Yes, March 1817. Do you recollect being at Carlsruhe? I do. Who received her royal highness at Carlsruhe? There was a grand chamberlain received her royal highness on getting out of her carriage, and a chamberlain appointed to attend her always after.
Do you remember the name of that gentleman? The baron d"Endé.
Did her royal highness pass the greater part of her time at court, or in retirement, whilst she was there? Almost always at court, or in the family of the grand duke.
Where did her royal highness usually dine, during her stay at Carlsruhe? At the court, or else at the Margravine's the grand duke's mother.
Did her royal highness usually sup out? Mostly.
Where was the supper given? At the grand duke's; and I think once at the Margravine's.
Were there any parties assembled on those occasions to meet her royal highness? Always, except the first day's dinner at the Margravine's.
Was it on your way back from Carlsruhe that you were stopped at Scharnitz? If that is the name of the barrier town between the Austrian Tyrol and the kingdom of Bavaria, we were stopped once there.
Do you remember the time of day when you got into this place? I think it was about the middle of the day.
What occasioned your being stopped there? We were travelling in sledges, in consequence of the depth of the snow, and the carriages were behind; the man at the barrier not having a passport, would not take the word of the courier, or ourselves in fact, that it was the princess of Wales, and he stopped us from passing.
Did that make it necessary for any person 508 to go back to Inspruck? Mr. Pergami went back immediately to Inspruck with captain Vassali, I think, to procure passports.
Do you recollect at what time Pergami and captain Vassali returned back to Scharnitz? I should think it was about one or two o'clock in the morning, it was very late.
Was that on your road to Vienna? It was in the road to Munich going to Vienna.
Did you afterwards, on your return from Vienna, pass through Trieste and Venice? We did.
Do you remember her royal highness arriving at Trieste? I do.
About what part of the day was it? The middle of the day, about noon I should think.
Did any one receive her royal highness upon her arrival at Trieste? The governor was sick in bed, and I think it was the vice-governor who received the princess, at least that came to the inn after she arrived.
Do you remember the name of that nobleman or gentleman? I do not.
In what manner did her royal highness pass that evening? We went to the Opera.
When did you leave Trieste? The following day, about five or six o'clock in the evening.
Do you recollect that distinctly? I positively recollect it.
Have you any particular reason for your distinct recollection of this fact? I have.
What is that reason? I have a letter that I wrote at the time from Venice on our arrival at that place; it is dated on the 18th of April, in the morning.
Have you got the letter in your pocket? I have.
The Witness produced a letter.
Is it a letter written to the lady whom you have since married? It is.
Was that letter sent from Venice? It was not only sent from Venice, but it was charged at the post-office.
Has it the Venice post-mark upon it? It has.
Is there any passage in that letter by looking at which you are certain you arrived at Venice on the 17th? Certainly, it is dated the 18th from Venice.
Can you by looking at that letter state the day on which you arrived at Trieste? We arrived at Trieste on the 15th.
Is it a journey of one day or more days between Trieste and Venice? It was a good journey of twenty-four hours post.
Did it occupy you about that time to perform the journey? On the night of leaving Trieste, we stopped some time at a small village in consequence of something happening to one of the carriages, and the sea breaking over the road; in fact it was bad weather.
Do you happen to remember the name of that village? I do not recollect the name of it.
Was it called Monte Falconi? I cannot 509 say; it was after descending the high hills about Trieste.
Do you remember a gentleman of the name of the baron Ompteda? I do.
Was he in the habit of visiting at her royal highness's house? Constantly.
Do you; recollect his visiting at Genoa? I do.
Did he dine there, or only call there? He dined there.
At that time was Teodoro Majoochi in the Service of her royal highness? He was.
Was h his duty to wait at dinner at that time? It was; he was a footman.
Did you see the baron Ompteda again at Milan, or where? At Milan, and at Como also.
On those occasions was he visiting at her royal highness's? Yes.
Did he dine at either of the times you have last mentioned? Yes.
Do you remember his coming to the Villa Villani? I do.
How long did he stay there? Sometimes he stopped over night; I am not quite sure whether one or two days; but I am certain that he stopped over night.
Do you know whether there was a room in the house that was called, in the family, baron Ompteda's room? Yes, he always occupied the room appointed for him.
At the times last examined to, was Teodoro Majoochi still a servant? Still a servant in the house.
Have you ever yourself conversed with Majoochi upon the subject of baron Ompteda? I have never spoken to Teodoro Majoochi except upon our arrival at Rome, some time after baron Ompteda had been at Como.
In the course of that conversation did you mention the name of baron Ompteda? I did.
In the course of the different journies you have made with her royal highness, was it customary or not, to be shown into rooms of entertainment where beds were standing? Very frequently.
Was it a thing at all uncommon to be shown into a room of that description? Not at all.
Do you recollect her royal highness giving you any directions as to Ompteda? I do.
Or making any representation to you on the subject of Ompteda? Yes.
What were the directions her royal highness gave to you?
The Witness was directed to withdraw.
The Attorney Generalobjected to the question. He apprehended that the declarations of her royal highness to the witness respecting Ompteda was not at all the matter in question, and could not be received in evidence. If all the directions which her royal highness gave to the witness were to be admitted in evidence, they would not know where to stop; because in that case, every thing that she had from time to time said to Mr. 510 Hownam might be given in evidence before their lordships. The conduct of her royal highness certainly was evidence; the fact of any representation of her's might also be given in evidence; but the nature of those representations could not be received in evidence.
Mr. Tindalsaid, he apprehended that any directions given to the witness by her royal highness, and which were afterwards communicated to Ompteda, might be given in evidence. Suppose, said he, that we shall be able to prove, that Ompteda was requested never again to enter the house of her royal highness, we cannot prove that simple fact without first calling the attention of the witness to the directions to that effect which he received from her royal highness. I apprehend that these directions or commands may be legally given in evidence.
The Lord Chancellorsuggested, that the regular course would be, first, to ask the witness whether he did such and such a tiling, and then whether he did it by her royal highness's directions.
The Witness was again called in.
In consequence of any directions from her royal highness, did you do any thing, or take any step with respect to baron Ompteda? I did; it was not a direction, it was a representation.
What did you do? I called him out.
Did you at any other time, do any thing at Rome with respect to baron Ompteda? I did.
The Lord Chancellordirected the counsel, first to ask what he did, and then to ask the directions under which he did it.
What was it you did? I told the servants of the house they were not to molest or to take any notice of the baron Ompteda, should they meet him.
Was Majoochi one of the servants? I am most positive he was one.
Do you recollect upon any occasion her royal highness visiting any of her servants when ill and in bed? Frequently.
Do you recollect in particular her visiting a servant of the name of Camera? I do, at Jerusalem.
What was the nature of his complaint, or supposed complaint? We imagined it even to be the plague; it was very severe.
Was that stated to her royal highness before she visited him? That I cannot say; but he was excessively ill.
Did she in point of fact visit him? I was not present in his room, to my recollection.
Do you recollect her visiting any other persons of her suite? I do.
Upon the various occasions you have seen her royal highness, was she received at the different courts where you visited by persons of the first distinction or not? All, except Vienna.
511 Who was the ambassador at Vienna? Lord Stewart.
Upon those occasions, when she was so received, what was the conduct and demeanor and appearance of her royal highness? Every thing that was majesty and grace.
How was she treated at those courts? With the greatest respect and attentions.
Do you remember her royal highness travelling from Ancona towards Rome? Yes, I do.
Do you happen to know who was the courier employed upon that occasion? I cannot say positively, I think it was Carlo.
Do you remember the subsequent journey from Rome to Sinigaglia. I do.
Do you recollect in what carriage her royal highness travelled upon that occasion? She travelled in an English landaulet, I am most positive as to this fact.
In what carriage did you travel yourself? I was in an English landau, I think, it is a long time ago.
Do you remember who accompanied you in that landau? I think the count Schiavini, mademoiselle Demont and her sister.
Do you remember any thing happening to the countess Oldi in the course of that journey? No.
The question refers to the journey from Rome to Sinigaglia? She was ill in the journey from Ancona to Rome.
When she was taken ill on the journey from Ancona to Rome did that occasion any alteration? She changed carriages; she went into the landau, and mademoiselle Demont went with the princess in the landaulet.
Did you go back from Rome to Sinigaglia? We did.
Was that the only journey you took from Rome to Sinigaglia, until after the late king's death? That was the only journey I ever performed from Rome to Sinigaglia.
Have you any recollection yourself, who did perform the office of courier upon that journey? I do not recollect; there were two couriers, Carlo Forti and Sacchini.
Do you mean two couriers in her royal highness's service? I do.
Can you, by adverting to any thing, recollect which of the two rode as courier upon that journey? I do not recollect positively which of the two it was.
Do you remember at all, whether Sacchi was taken ill upon any occasion? I do, it is very imperfectly in my recollection, I remember he was not well.
When the name of her royal highness is mentioned to you, does that bring to your recollection any thing about his being ill? No.
Do you remember, in the journey to Rome, any accident happening, as to the horses of any of the carriages? I do.
What was that accident? It was an accident from the horses of the princess's carriage taking fright on leaving the post.
How long upon the whole have you been 512 in the society of her royal highness, as part of her suite? Only since the month of April 1815.
Down to what time? Down, I believe, to the present time.
How long have you been actually living with her royal highness? To April 1818.
From April 1815 to April 1818, have you been constantly living with her royal highness? I have.
During the whole of that time have you ever seen any thing in the conduct of her royal highness towards Pergami, or of Pergami towards her royal highness, that was improper, indecent, or degrading to the station of her royal highness? I have not.
What salary had you during the time you were attached to her royal highness's suite? Two hundred pounds a year.
Does her royal highness continue that salary up to the present time? She does.
Cross-examined by Mr. Attorney General.
You are a lieutenant in the navy? I am.
How long have you been a lieutenant in the navy? Since May 1809.
How long had you been in the navy before you were made a lieutenant? Six years.
Your father had been in the service of her royal highness? He was.
He was a page, was not he? He was.
Do you know how long he was in that service with her royal highness? In the service of her royal highness, I do not know; but all his life in the service either of his present majesty or of the princess Charlotte.
Her royal highness interested herself about your promotion? Very much.
And through her good offices you were promoted to the rank of lieutenant? I was.
When was it you joined her royal highness's suite? In the month of April 1815.
At Genoa? Yes.
In what capacity? I cannot positively say in what capacity, but I was given the salary of an equerry, as I was told.
You do not know in what capacity you were in her royal highness's suite? I did not at that time, except the conviction that it was as equerry.
What situation did you subsequently fill in her royal highness's suite? None.
How long were you at Genoa before her royal highness quitted it for Milan? I should think about six weeks.
Pergami was a courier at that time? He was.
He wore the dress of a courier? He wore the dress of a courier.
How long after your arrival at Milan was her royal highness left without an English lady of honour? Her royal highness was left without any English lady of honour about ten or twelve days, I think, after her arrival at Milan.
How soon after she was left by her Eng- 513 lish ladies of honour did the countess Oldi come? A very short time, one or two days probably.
Before the countess Oldi came, had Faustina and the little Victorine come into her royal highness's family? They came to Genoa with the child, but I never understood they were in the family.
Did not they live in the family? I never saw them at Genoa, but by hazard in the garden.
How often did you see them by hazard in the garden? I might have seen them once or twice, sufficient to know that they were there.
That is in the garden? In the house, they were in the house.
Do not you know they lived in the house at Genoa? I know they lived in the house at Genoa.
In the princess's house? In the princess's house.
When did the mother of Pergami come to the princess's? At that time, I think, she came with the child.
Was she also in the house of the princess at Genoa? Yes, I speak to the best of my recollection-Did not Louis Pergami also come into the family at Genoa? He was there when I arrived.
What situation did he fill in the family at that time? Page.
Do you mean that he was an upper servant or a footman only? An upper servant.
At that time? Yes.
Did he wear the livery? Yes, a sort of uniform rather than a livery.
You have stated, that you accompanied her royal highness in a tour she took to Mount St. Gothard? I did.
Did not Pergami accompany her royal highness on that occasion as a courier? He was dressed in a courier's dress, but he then road in a carriage.
In what carriage did he ride, and with whom? He rode if an open calash, but with whom I cannot say.
Was it not with Hieronimus? I think it was.
Was not Hieronimus the other courier at that time? Hieronimus did travel occasionally as a courier, but he was maitre d'hotel, as I always imagined.
Had not Hieronimus a courier's dress on? He had.
Hieronimus and Pergami, both having courier's dresses on, travelled together in the same calash? Both.
In what month was that tour taken? I think in the month of August 1815.
In the course of that tour did not Pergami dine with her royal highness at Bellinzona? He dined with her royal highness, I think it was at Bellinzona.
Who dined with her royal highness besides? There was the professor Confieliac, who ac- 514 companied her royal highness, and a man who was living in the mountains, I do not know what he was.
Was not Pergami at the time dressed as a courier? He was.
Did you dine with her royal highness upon that occasion? I did.
And remained at the table during the whole of dinner? I did.
You have said, that he did not dine regularly at that time with her royal highness, did he after that time occasionally dine with her in his courier's dress? Never afterwards in his courier's dress.
When did he begin regularly to dine with her royal highness? At the Villa d'Este.
In what month? I think it was about the month of September that we got to the Villa d'Este; but I cannot speak to a few days at this period.
Did not Pergami dine with her royal high-ness at Lugano? That was on the return from the journey to Mount St. Gothard.
He did dine with her royal highness at Lugano? I think he did.
Was he not then courier, as he was upon former occasions, when he dined with her royal highness? It was upon the same journey.
Do you remember any other place, in the course of that journey, in which they dined together? No, I do not.
At the Devil's Bridge did they dine together? That was on the same journey; I rather think they did.
On those occasions, on that same journey on which Pergami dined with her royal highness, was he not in the dress of a courier? He was.
When you were at the Villa d'Este Mr. Burrell left her royal highness? He left at the Villa Villani.
That was just before you got to the Villa d'Este? It was.
Mr. Burrell was not on that journey to Mount St. Gothard? He was not.
Nor doctor Holland? Doctor Holland had left at Venice.
Then was there any other English gentleman with her royal highness, except yourself, on that tour to Mount St. Gothard? None.
When you were at the Villa d'Este, have you not frequently seen her royal highness and Pergami walking together? I have.
Before you set out on the voyage? On the long voyage, yes.
Have you seen them together in a canoe on the lake? I have seen them together in a small boat.
With no other person with them? The boat was not big enough to hold a third, I should imagine, that is to say conveniently; it was a canoe.
When you have seen them walking together, have you not seen them walking together arm in arm? I have seen them walking together arm in arm.
515 At the Villa d'Este? Yes, as I have seen her walk with other gentlemen.
You have stated, that during the whole course of the time you were with her royal highness, you saw nothing improper, indecent, or degrading to her station, in her conduct towards Pergami? I have.
You have stated, that you saw her dining with him, when he was a courier in his courier's dress, that he afterwards walked with her at the Villa d'Este arm in arm; they went out together in a canoe alone, and that he then began regularly to dine with her royal highness; do you think that conduct degrading or not? I never saw her royal highness walk arm in arm with, him, until he began to dine regularly with her royal highness.
You must perceive that is no answer to the question, do you consider that which you have stated as degrading to her royal highness, or not? I do not.
You have stated, that you do not remember seeing her walking arm and arm with him till he dined regularly at the table; did you not see them walking arm in arm in the course of this journey to Mount St. Gothard? I do not recollect it; I swear I do not recollect it.
Will you swear they did not? I will swear, to the best of my recollection, that I did not see them.
You say you did not consider this at all degrading to her royal highness; have you never represented it to her as degrading to her that Pergami should dine with her? I never did.
Did you never desire her royal highness not to admit Pergami to her table? Not to my recollection I did not.
Nor any thing to that effect? Nor any thing to that effect.
Have you never entreated her royal highness not to admit Pergami to her table? I never did.
Then if you never did entreat her royal highness not to admit Pergami to her table, you never did represent that to any person? I do not think I ever did; I could not.
You are not asked whether you could or not, but whether you have ever represented to any person that you had entreated her royal highness not to admit Pergami to her table? I am confident I did not.
You are positive you never did? I am positive I never did; I feel convinced I never did.
Have you never stated that you entreated her royal highness on your knees, and with tears in your eyes, to dissuade her from admitting Pergami to a seat at her table, but without effect? Never; I never did such a thing.
You are not asked whether you ever did such a thing, but whether you ever stated to any person that you had so done? I do not think I ever did; I have no recollection of the fact; I could not have done so.
If the fact never happened, you can have 516 no doubt you never did? I have no doubt within myself.
Is it to be understood, that you now swear you never made such a representation to any one that you had so done. I will read the words again, "that you have never stated that you had entreated her royal highness on your knees, and with tears in your eyes, to dissuade her from admitting Pergami to a seat at her table, but without effect?" I swear not to have the smallest recollection, and I do not think I have done it; I have not done the thing.
You are not asked whether you did actually entreat her royal highness on your knees, but whether you have ever stated that you did, or to that effect? I have not the smallest recollection of ever having stated such a thing.
Will you swear you have not? I swear, to the best of my recollection, that I have not.
Yon say you swear to the best of your recollection; will you undertake to swear positively one way or the other? I swear as positively as I can; I have no recollection of the fact; I have no recollection of ever having said so to any person.
Will you swear you have not so said? I will swear, as I said before, I have no recollection of the fact. I cannot swear to a thing I do not recollect.
You have already sworn that the fact was not so; that you did not entreat her royal highness not to admit Pergami to her table; can you have any doubt that you have not said so? I have no doubt that I never said so; at least, I have not the smallest recollection of the fact.
Were you on board the Leviathan? I was.
Do you know captain Briggs? I do.
Upon your oath, did you never state that to captain Briggs? Upon my oath, I do not recollect the circumstance.
Will you swear you did not state that to captain Briggs, "that you had entreated her royal highness, and with tears in your eyes, to dissuade her from admitting Pergami to a seat at her table, but without effect?" I have not the smallest recollection of ever having said the like to captain Briggs.
And that that happened the day that the princess changed the condition of Pergami from being a servant to being a companion? I do not recollect having said any thing of the sort to captain Briggs.
Will you swear that you did not? I will swear that I have no recollection of it.
Is that such a circumstance as that you can have forgotten it if it took place? It is such a circumstance as that I should have recollected it, I think.
If the fact be true, can you have any doubt you would recollect it; and if it be not true, have you a difficulty in swearing it did not take place? It is some years ago; it is a long time ago; I cannot recollect the fact.
You have sworn that the fact did not take place; would you, as a gentleman, have re- 517 presented that that fact had taken place if it had not? The fact is true, I did not do the thing.
If the fact is not true, could you have represented the fact to have taken place to any other gentleman? I should imagine not.
Have you any doubt upon that? No, I do not think I did.
Although you do not think you did, is it to be understood that you will not 6wear you did not state so to captain Briggs? I cannot swear to a thing I have no recollection of; that is impossible.
What do you believe; do you believe you stated it or not? I do not believe I did.
Then you will swear you do not believe you stated that to captain Briggs, but you will not swear positively you did not; is that to be understood to be your answer? Yes.
How long were you on board the Leviathan? About three weeks.
Where did you leave Pergami's mother and his sister, before you went upon the long voyage? I think at the Villa d'Este.
How was the mother addressed by the persons in her royal highness's family; what was the name given to her? Madame Livia Nonna, the name given her in the family.
Do you mean to state, that she was called madame Livia in the family before the long voyage? I cannot positively say that, for I do not think I ever spoke to her more than once or twice; if I did speak to her I did not call her Nonna; I do not know what she was called.
Did you ever hear her royal highness call her Nonna? Frequently.
After Mr. William Burrell left, and when you were at the Villa d'Este, was her royal highness in the habit of amusing herself at games with the servants? Very frequently; it was more to amuse William than any thing else, I believe.
Did her royal highness join in those games? Yes.
Was the game Colin Maillard one of them? There were several games, what they call the Pelits Jeux.
Were those games played before Mr. Burrell left her royal highness's service? I do not recollect.
Have you any doubt that they were not? I rather think they were played even while he was there; I am not certain, but I have no perfect recollection of it.
You know he left at the Villa Villani? Yes.
The question refers to the Villa d'Este? Then he was not there, but the same games were played at the Villa Villani.
Before he left? Yes, and every where else.
Do you mean to state that Mr. Burrell joined in those games; that they were played when he was present? I do not recollect the fact of his being there.
Had Pergami ever dined with the princess before Mr. Burrell left? No.
518 Was there any other English gentleman in her suite, except yourself, at the time Pergami began to dine with her royal highness? I was the only English person in the suite.
Were Pergami and his brother Louis present at those games you have been talking of? Yes.
Faustina the sister? No, I do not think she was.
Was not she living in the family at that time? I do not think she was; I do not re collect seeing her there.
Did you ever see her royal highness perform on the theatre at the Villa d'Este? Yes. Have you not seen her perform the part of Columbine when Louis Pergami was the Harlequin? I do not recollect that, but it was before more than two hundred persons that she performed; I do not recollect what parts she performed.
Do you recollect Louis Pergami performing with her royal highness? Every body performed on the stage together, at least all the household; the piece, whatever it was, was composed of the persons of the house.
Was Louis Pergami one of them? He was. Will you swear that you do not recollect her royal highness performing the part of Columbine? Upon my word it is not marked on my memory that she performed the part of Columbine.
Do you mean that the general conduct of her royal highness was such, that yon have no recollection of her performing the part of the Columbine with Louis Pergami? I do not recollect whether she performed the part of Columbine; there were two or three pieces that evening; she may or she may not; I do not positively remember that evening.
Or on any other evening? No, that was the only time that was performed; there were rehearsals to that little piece that was performed.
I thought you said there were two or three pieces? Yes, on the same evening; I do not recollect perfectly what they were; amongst the rest there was a dance, I believe. Did her royal highness dance? Yes. With whom did she dance? With all indiscriminately, I do not know with whom; the chevalier Tamasia performed, and Doctor Mocatti, I think, performed also.
Do you mean to say you do not remember whether her royal highness danced with Louis Pergami on the stage that evening? I do mean positively to say, that I do not recollect having seen her royal highness dance with Louis Pergami; she may, or she may not.
Was not one of the pieces a Harlequinade? Yes, I think it was.
Who performed the part of Harlequin? I have seen Louis Pergami dressed as Harlequin; he had the dress.
Having recollected who was the Harlequin, do you not remember that her royal highness was the Columbine? No, I do not recollect 519 the fact; if I was to say it, it would be only because you say it; I do not recollect that her royal highness performed the part of Columbine, the thing is not sufficiently impressed upon my memory to declare that it was so.
You will not say that she did not perform the part of Columbine? I will say as much one way as the other; I do not recollect.
Do you remember any part that the princess performed that evening upon the stage? Yes, I think she performed the part of an Automaton.
What do you mean by an Automaton; in what way did she perform? The history was—it is so long ago that I do not recollect, but it was a man that wanted to sell an Automaton, a woman in fact that you could wind up to any thing; I forget the history of the thing; it was a farce upon the person who bought it, to find his mistake; it is a long time ago, I do not recollect the whole of the story; it was a little story composed by the princess herself, I believe.
Then her royal highness was the Automaton? Yes, I think she was; she was in fact.
Did Pergami perform the part of the person who wanted to sell the Automaton? No, I think it was the chevalier Tamasia.
Who was the person that was to purchase the Automaton? who performed that part? I think it was professor Mocatti.
Did Pergami perform in that piece? I do not think he did.
Did her royal highness play any other part that evening in any other piece? I cannot remember, it is so long ago.
Cannot you recollect her performing some part with Pergami? No, I cannot recollect what part she performed.
Do not you remember Pergami performing the part of a sick person? No; I recollect Pergami performing the part of a fiddler, a sort of a fiddler.
That is another time? Then I have confounded the two, I only remember one.
He performed the part of a fiddler; did not her royal highness on that occasion perform the part of a milkmaid, or a person in low life? I do not recollect what part her royal highness performed, but there were more than two hundred people there; there were plenty to sec.
Do not you remember that on that evening she did perform the part of a milkmaid? No, I do not remember the fact.
Or on any other evening? No, I have only a recollection of that one evening.
Did not Pergami perform another part that evening, besides this dance? It is very probable, but I do not recollect.
Did not he perform the part of a physician, and her royal highness the part of a sick person? I do not recollect the fact; I have a slight vague remembrance of something, but I cannot charge my recollection with it.
520 Do you remember, before your setting out on the long voyage, Saint Bartholomew's day being kept at the Villa d'Estc? I believe it was on that very day that this piece was performed at the theatre.
Was that day kept in honour of Pergami? I do not recollect whether it was St. Bartholomew's day, or what day; I recollect some great fete at which this piece was performed, but to say it was St. Bartholomew's day I cannot.
Do not you know that this fete was given in honour of St. Bartholomew? No, I do not; I think it was given on christening the Villa d'Este, on taking possession of the place, which was formerly called II Garo, and it was christened by the name of Villa d'Este.
What month was it in? It was before our departure; we left on the 14th of November; I cannot say whether it was a week, or a month, or six weeks before our departure.
Whether it was the day on which this theatrical representation took place or not, was there not a fete at the Villa d'Este on the 24th of August, St. Bartholomew's day? I cannot recollect whether there was a fete on that day or not, there might have been.
Is there nothing to bring to your recollection whether that fete was on the 24th of August, St. Bartholomew's day, or not? I think it was about that time, the 24th of August we were performing the journey to St. Gothard; it was in the early part of August; we had not got possession of the Villa d'Este then.
Was there no fete given at the Villa d'Este before you actually took possession of the Villa d'Este? No, I do not remember that there was.
Did you accompany her royal highness to Venice? I did.
With Dr. Holland? With Dr. Holland.
You remained at Venice during the time her royal highness was there? I did.
You have stated, that you accompanied her royal highness on the long voyage; before that voyage had Pergami been raised to the rank of a baron? No.
Before your leaving Sicily? Before our leaving-Sicily he was.
And a knight of Malta? And a knight of Malta.
When you first went on board the polacre, where did Pergami sleep, where was his sleeping-room? I think he had the after of the small cabins on the starboard side.
What sized vessel was the polacre? I should suppose about 260 tons English.
About what width was she at the stern? Probably about eighteen feet, or not so much, but I may be out, I never measured it.
She was a vessel of about 260 tons? Yes, the Italian vessels, the foreign vessels fall in very much; they are not built so wall-sided as ours are.
You have said that Pergami at first slept in a small cabin? The after cabin on the star- 521 board side of the vessel, one of the small cabins.
Was that next the dining-room? It was.
Who slept in the cabin next to him on the starboard side? I think it was the count Schiavini.
Who next to him? William Austin.
Who next to William Austin, do you recollect? I think Camera.
Who on the other side, the larboard side? The two maids, the after cabin next the dining-room.
Who next to them? Myself.
Who next to you? Mr. Flinn.
Who next to him? Hieronimus.
After you left Tunis, did Pergami sleep in the dining-room? Yes, he did.
You have stated, that whilst you were at Tunis you visited Utica? I did.
Where was it you slept on the night of the day you visited Utica? We slept at the palace of the younger prince Sidi Mustapha. called Sabella.
Utica itself is in ruins? In perfect ruins.
How far from Utica is the palace of that younger prince? I should think eight or nine miles.
How far is Utica from Tunis? About two and twenty miles.
After having visited the ruins of Utica from Tunis, you went to sleep at the palace of this younger prince? We returned to Sabella.
You have stated, that on board this polacre, there was a tent on the deck? I have.
And that on your return from Jaffa, the princess slept under that tent? Constantly.
Was that tent always of the same size, for had it been more contracted at first and afterwards enlarged? From Jaffa, I imagine, it was always of the same size; I do not know of any particular difference.
When you say you imagine, do you recollect one way or the other, whether the tent, when first it was put up, covered the passage which you state there was from the deck to the dining-room? I think it always covered the passage.
Are you quite sure of that? I am quite sure with myself, I have no recollection of it any other way.
What was the size of the tent? It might have been ten feet in the length, and the sofa was about six feet; I suppose it was about four feet more, about ten feet.
How wide? It included one side of the ship, and the hatchway of the ship perfect.
How wide do you think it was? I suppose it might have been sixteen feet altogether.
You say there was a sofa and a bedstead under that tent? I do.
Where about was the bed-stead, with reference to the sofa, under that tent? The bedstead was at right angles with the sofa.
How near? Three or four feet apart.
How near was the nearest part of the sofa? I mean the adjoining angle of the sofa and 522 the bed I should imagine to be about three feet or four feet apart.
You have stated, when you were off Cara-mania an accident happened, and that her royal highness came below to sleep; where did she sleep? At first she laid down upon the deck; afterwards she went into the cabin of William, where the water came in; and lastly, she came and lay upon my bed; and I cut out the whole of the front of my cabin to admit the air.
When you say she first lay upon the deck, whereabouts did she lie? I think she lay aft, on the starboard side, in a small space between the cabin and the hatchway.
You stated, that you saw Pergami handing her royal highness down, did you see afterwards where he slept, where he was tying down? I do not think that he laid down at all; I do not recollect where he was afterwards; I only saw him handing down her royal highness, with, I think, Flinn and others assisting: Flinn was assisting her royal highness down, but where he went afterwards I have no recollection, I took no notice.
You have no recollection then of seeing Pergami after that any where? I have not.
Did you not see him lying down upon the deck after that? No, I do not recollect that I did.
Where did Pergami sleep on the return from Jaffa? I do not know where he slept.
Have you never seen him under the tent upon the bed? In the night-time?
By day or by night? I have seen him under the tent in the day, as every body else was there.
Have you seen him upon the bed? I have seen him sitting cither upon a chair or upon that travelling bed.
You have stated that Pergami at first slept in the cabin which you have mentioned—that he afterwards slept in the dining-room; do you know where he slept on his way home from Jaffa? I never saw him sleeping any where after that, therefore I cannot declare where he slept.
You have stated that upon one occasion, not knowing that the tent was closed, you ascended the ladder to the tent? More than once.
Did not that ladder communicate to the dining-room? It did.
At what hour was it, or about what hour was it, upon any of those occasions, that you went into the dining-room and up the ladder? It might have been ten o'clock, or half past ten, before I went to bed.
Do you know who was under the tent at that time? Her royal highness the princess.
Any other person? I do not know, for I did not see any body.
Was it dark? It was dark.
Did you see the princess? I did not.
Did you see Pergami any where? I did not.
523 Did you not upon that occasion pass through the dining-room, in which Pergami had slept on the outward voyage? I passed through the dining-room.
In which Pergami had slept on the outward voyage? Yes.
Was there any light in the dining-room at that time? I do not recollect, I do not think there was.
Where did Demont and her sister sleep at that time? I do not know, I have not seen them in bed, but I imagine in their cabins.
After the princess slept on the deck, did not one or other of them occasionally sleep in the princess's room with the little Victorine? I believe they did by turns.
You have said, that you do not know where Pergami slept; upon your oath, do not you believe he slept under the tent? I have heard he did sleep under the tent.
I do not wish to know what you have heard? And I believe he did sleep under the tent.
Whilst you were on board the polacre, as you have no recollection of St. Bartholomew's day in the year 1815, was not St. Bartholomew's day celebrated on your arrival off Syracuse? We were at Syracuse.
Do you not believe that on the return from Jaffa, Pergami slept constantly under the tent? I have heard that he did sleep under the tent, and I believe he did sleep under the tent.
Without referring to what you have heard, do you not believe that he slept under the tent? I have already said so.
Believing that, do you think that degrading or not to her royal highness? No, I think it was necessary that somebody should sleep near her royal highness on deck on that occasion; I have heard that other people have slept there too.
You are not asked as to hearing what other people have done, but whether your belief that Pergami slept under the tent with her royal highness, was or was not a matter degrading to her royal highness's station? No, do not think it was.
You were asked, whether on your arrival at Syracuse, St. Bartholomew's day was not celebrated on board the polacre? I recollect that the sailors had a fete on board, and drank, and sung, and danced.
Upon St. Bartholomew's day? I believe it was on St. Bartholomew's day.
Have you any doubt about it? No, I have none.
Then why do you say you believe? Because I believe it was so.
You say the sailors were regaled on that day? I do not know who paid or who regaled them; I know they were rejoicing in fact.
Do you mean to say you do not know who regaled them on that day? I do not know who regaled them on that day.
Who do you believe regaled them on that day? I suppose Pergami did.
524 Why do you believe that Pergami did? Because in those countries they always keep the day of their name instead of their birthday.
Was this day kept in honour of Pergami? They were rejoicing, and it was his saint's day; in fact, every body keeps that day in Italy.
Was there any other saint's day kept on board the polacre in the same manner? I do not remember that there was.
Was not the ship illuminated on this night at Syracuse? I do not recollect that.
Did not the sailors cry, "Viva St. Bartolomeo! Viva la Principessa! Viva il Cavaliere? They may have cried so, but I did not hear them; at least, it is not marked upon my memory that they did.
Do you mean to say, that you heard none of the exclamations of the crew, who were very gay upon the deck? I must have heard all their exclamations, but none of them have been marked upon my memory sufficiently to enable me; to say what they were; it is very possible they may have said "Viva il Cavaliere."
Did you see Pergami and the princess on that day on board the polacre? We were in quarantine, and every body was on board; I must have seen them.
Where did you see them, on the deck? As usual.
Did you see them walking on the deck as usual? As usual.
In what manner were they walking when you say as usual, the princess and Pergami? I do not recollect to have seen them precisely that day walking more than another; but if they were walking, they were walking as they always did.
Arm in arm? They might have been walking arm in arm.
was that their usual way of walking on the deck? Her royal highness could not walk on the deck without the arm of somebody.
They were in port on this occasion, were they not, in Syracuse? They were.
Could she not have walked therefore on the deck without the assistance of any other person? I do not say she was walking with the assistance of any other person; she may have walked alone, and she may have walked with his arm; I cannot-recollect, the thing was not so remarkable as to make a note in my memory how she walked.
Was it so usual for her to walk arm in arm with Pergami, that it made no impression on your mind when you saw it?
Mr. Broughamobjected to this question, as it assumed that to walk arm in arm was the usual practice of the princess and Pergami, and that this was admitted by the witness, which was not the fact. He should have no objection to the question, if put in a general way, without any assumption as to what was their usual way of walking.
525 The Witnes was directed to withdraw.
The Attorney Generalsaid, that he was not aware of any assumption. He meant merely to ask, if the witness saw the princess and Pergami walking arm in arm; whether, from the usual way of walking so, that would make any impression upon him?
§ Earl Greysaid, the objection urged by the learned counsel, on the other side, would still apply to the form in which the attorney-general purposed to put the question; for this question assumed, that it was the usual practice of the princess and Pergami to walk arm in arm.
The Lord Chancellorsaid, there could be no objection to the question, if put in another shape, and free from the words assumed to be in evidence. The question might be so varied in terms as to obviate any objection, and to convey the same meaning. Counsel might ask, whether it was so usual, that it would have made no impression upon the mind of the witness if he had seen it.
The Witness was again called in.
Was it so usual a thing for the princess to walk arm in arm with Pergami, that if she had done it in Syracuse, it would have made no impression upon your mind? It would not.
During this voyage and your journey to the East, were any additional orders conferred upon Pergami? I do not know whether you can call it an order, it was a thing her royal highness had spoken of for many months before she undertook the journey, saying she would make a little recompence to those who should accompany her on that pilgrimage, as a mark of distinction, as a memento rather.
The question was, whether any orders were conferred upon Pergami, in the course of that journey to the East? If that is an order, there was.
What was it? It was called the order of St. Caroline.
Was Pergami one of the knights of this order? Yes, he was.
The grand master? I believe he was, so it says in the diploma.
Was any other order conferred upon Pergami in the course of that journey, at Jerusalem? The order of St. Sepulchre, of the Holy Sepulchre.
Do you know whether that order was purchased for Pergami? I have not the slightest idea of the thing; I do not believe it was.
Were there any other persons on whom that order was conferred? There were count Schiavini and William Austin.
Is that a Catholic order? I believe it is.
Were you present when that order was conferred upon Pergami? I was.
And the princess? And the princess 526 Where was it? It was in that called the Temple of Resurrection; the Cathedral, in fact, at Jerusalem.
In going to Jerusalem, did you repose under tents? We did.
By day? Yes, by day.
Yon travelled by night, and reposed by day? Yes.
How many tents were there, do you recollect? There might have been six or seven, more or less; I cannot say, but certainly more than four or five.
Who reposed in the tent with yourself? Mr. Flinn, in general, and the doctor I believe, and Schiavini.
Did you see the princess, when she alighted from her ass, retire to her tent? I have seen her throw herself on the sofa of her tent, on getting down from her mule or ass.
Do you know where Pergami reposed during the day? I do not.
Do not you believe that he reposed under the same tent with her royal highness? I do not know, I never saw him there.
Do not you believe that he did?
Mr. Broughamsaid, he did not interpose here for the purpose of objecting to the question, but merely that their lordships might make a note in their own minds, that he did not object to it, although he certainly had a right. He had not, however, the slightest objection to this question, and a thousand others to the same purpose; he was, on the contrary, only sorry that he had not put them himself.
The question was proposed.
He may or may not; I do not know.
What is your belief? I dare say he did; I do not know.
Do not you believe that he slept under the same tent with her royal highness? I can only say, as I have said, I do not know.
What do you believe? He may or may not, I cannot say, because I have no ground's for believing it.
Did you see him under any other tent reposing? No, I did not; I retired to my own tent directly I got off my horse, and there I slept, of course, till dinner-time; till it was time to go, when every body was in movement.
Do you know where Schiavini slept? I think he slept under the same tent as I did myself, as I have stated; but I will not be positive even as to that fact.
Do you know where Hieronimus and Camera slept? I do not; I have never seen them sleeping.
You have stated, that in the course of your journey in the east, you were at Ephesus? I did.
You remember the coffee-house, the Caffé Turque, at Ephesus? I do.
Do you remember where the princess dined, or do you not? The following day she dined 527 in the churchyard, under the porch of the church; the porch of an old mosque.
Can you recollect where you dined upon that day yourself? I feel thoroughly convinced that I dined there with her.
Will you swear that that day you dined with her royal highness? I will swear that is the impression upon my mind, that I dined with her royal highness.
Where did 'you land on your return from the voyage? At Capo d'Anza.
You have stated, that at the Barona her royal highness gave some entertainments, some dances, and you have mentioned the daughters of some persons who were there, who were they? I think they were the daughters of the agent of the farm; the farmer's daughters.
How many of them used to come to the ball? Three, or four, or five; I do not precisely recollect the number; it was a dance, not a ball, for the amusement of the household.
Do you know a person who kept a public house at the village on the Barona? No, I do not.
The St. Christopher? I do not.
Do you know a person of the name of Johana Ange? I do not.
Were there many persons thereof low life? I do not know their situation in life; I recollect the farmer's daughters but as to other people of low life, I have no recollection of any thing of the sort.
How often were those dances given at the Barona? Some four or five times, they may have been less.
You knew those daughters of the farmer? I did not know them, except from having seen them there; that is all the knowledge I had of them.
You have stated, that upon one occasion you were at Scharnitz? The barrier town of the Bavarian states.
Mr. Broughamsubmitted, that the witness must not be taken to have stated that he had been at Scharnitz, but at the barrier town between the Austrian Tyrol and Bavaria.
The following extract was read from the former Evidence:
"Was it on your way back from Carlsruhe that you were stopped at Scharnitz? If that is the name of the barrier town between the Austrian Tyrol and the kingdom of Bavaria, we were stopped once there.
"Do you remember the time of day when you got into this place? I think it was about the middle of the day.
"What occasioned your being stopped there? We were travelling in sledges in consequence of the depth of the snow, and the carriages were behind; the man at the barrier, not having a passport, would not take the word of the courier, or ourselves in fact, that it was the princess of Wales, and he stopped us from passing.
528 "Did that make it necessary for any person to go back to Inspruck? Mr. Pergami went back immediately to Inspruck, with captain Vassali, I think, to procure passports.
"Do you recollect at what time Pergami and captain Vassali returned back to Scharnitz? I should think it was about one or two o'clock in the morning, it was very late."
Were you ever at Scharnitz? I do not know whether that is the name of the town you allude to.
You recollect the circumstance of Pergami and Vassali going back for the passport from this barrier town? Perfectly.
There was a great deal of snow on the ground at that time? A great deal.
Had you a great deal of difficulty in getting on? A great deal.
Were they not obliged, when you set out from that town, to cut a way for you through the snow? They were.
There were many persons employed for that purpose, were there not? Some twenty, thirty, or forty, at different parts of the road; I do not mean to say in a body.
What time did you set out from that place in the morning? I think as soon as it was day-light.
What time in the year was it? I think in the month of March.
Was it not nearly eight o'clock before you set out from that town? I do not recollect as to the hour, I think it was at day-light we set out.
Was it broad day-light when you set out? I should imagine it was.
Do you remember whether in consequence of this delay about the passports, your baggage was stopped at the barrier? All was stopped, every thing was stopped, our baggage was on the carriages.
Was the baggage left at the barrier, or did it go on with you to the inn? The inn is within a few hundred yards of the barrier itself.
Can you recollect whether the baggage was stopped at the barrier, or went on to the inn? The barrier was beyond the inn, we had to return to the inn.
Then you returned to the inn, and staid there in consequence of this delay about the passports? Exactly so.
Do you remember whether the carriages were unloaded on that night or not? I have not a recollection of the thing at all; I know that I had not my baggage, I do not think they were.
You have been asked respecting a journey from Milan to Rome, by way of Ancona, and afterwards from Rome to Sinigaglia; how many carriages had her royal highness? I do not remember precisely the number, but I should thing three or four.
What sort of carriages were they? There was an English landau, an English landaulet, a little German carriage belonging to William (a calash) and another Roman calash, a carriage made at Rome.
529 Where did you sleep the first day on your journey from Rome to Sinigaglia? I do not recollect the name of the town.
Did you not stop at Atricola? I think that was the second day.
How far did you go that first day; you travelled by night, it being very hot weather? We travelled by night, and stopped in the heat of the day.
Do you remember where you stopped the second morning, was it not at Nocera? I think it was, because there are some mineral springs there.
Did you not stop some time at a place called Fano, the third day? I think we breakfasted there.
How long did you stay there; do you recollect? We might have stopped there an hour or two; but I cannot say as to the time, I do not think more than that.
How far is Fano from Sinigaglia? One or two posts; about ten miles, I should think.
At what time did you get to Sinigaglia? I think it was about one or two o'clock in the day.
Was it not later than that? I do not recollect, it may have been later.
Do not you remember that it was as late as five o'clock in the afternoon when you got to Sinigaglia? No, I do not; it is not marked sufficiently upon my memory, the arrival at Sinigaglia, to say whether it was two or five o'clock.
Can you therefore undertake to say, that it was not so late as five o'clock? I will not undertake to say any thing about it; it is not marked sufficiently for me to decide.
I have called your recollection to a place ealled Fano, at which you stopped; do not you recollect seeing Sacchi there? I do not.
Do not you recollect Sacchi being ill there for a short time? No, I do not recollect it.
Do not you remember seeing him in bed there for a short time, or his going to bed, in consequence of his having taken something cold, some iced lemonade, or something of that kind, on the road? I do not; I have not the smallest recollection of it.
Do you remember in what carriage the princess travelled on that journey from Rome to Sinigaglia? I think it was the landaulet.
Are you sure it was in the landaulet? I am not certain, but I think it was. She had travelled in that to Rome; in fact, she almost always travelled in that carriage.
It was very hot weather, and you travelled by night, to avoid the heat of the day? Precisely so.
Who travelled in the carriage with her royal highness? I rather think the countess Oldi and Pergami.
Who travelled in the carriage with yourself? As far as I recollect, it was the two chambermaids and the count Schiavini. I understand the question to allude to the journey from Rome to Sinigaglia; in going to Rome, I did not travel in that carriage.
530 Where did little Victorine travel? She was always with her royal highness.
Do you mean to say, that she travelled with her royal highness the whole way from Rome to Sinigaglia? I think she did; because I recollect a circumstance that she would not come into our carriage any more, from having been upset going in the journey from Inspruck to the Tyrol, and the child happened to be in our carriage, and after that she would not come with us; that has marked it in my memory.
Notwithstanding that circumstance, can you undertake to say, that Victorine was not occasionally in the carriage in which you travelled from Rome to Sinigaglia? I do not recollect her having been in that carriage.
Can you swear that she was not? I swear from my recollection as much as lean, I cannot positively swear she was not, for she might have been, but I do not recollect it.
Who travelled in the third carriage? think it was William Austin and captain Vassali.
What sort of a carriage was that? A little German carriage belonging to William.
What carriage did you travel in? In the English landaulet, I think.
I have been speaking at present of the journey from Rome to Sinigaglia; I now wish to call your attention to the journey to Rome; do you remember, at Ancona, seeing Louis Pergami? Yes.
Did not Louis Pergami go with her royal highness and the suite from Ancona to Rome? I will not be certain as to that fact. You remember seeing him at Ancona? Yes, because he came from Rome back to Ancona.
And met you at Ancona? And met us at Ancona.
Did not he afterwards go with the princess and her suite to Rome? That I do not recollect.
You are quite sure you saw him at Ancona? I feel persuaded that I did see him at Ancona.
Was there a fourth carriage from Rome to Sinigaglia, besides the three you have mentioned? I have mentioned four.
Who travelled in the fourth? I travelled in the fourth with a Roman captain Lancy, that was to Rome.
You have mentioned the persons who travelled in three of the carriages from Rome to Sinigaglia; do you know who travelled in the fourth, from Rome to Sinigaglia, whether Camera and Louis Pergami went in that fourth carriage? I do not recollect; I cannot say.
Did not Camera and Louis Pergami go I from Rome to Sinigaglia in your company? j Positively I do not know; Louis Pergaini went, I think, during the time we were at I Rome, once or twice to Milan, but whether he returned with us to Sinigaglia, I do not: recollect.
531 Who wont as couriers from Rome to Sinigaglia? I rather think Carlo and Sacchini; I do not know whether those were the two couriers on the journey to Rome, whether they both came with us or not I do not recollect.
Can you swear that you saw Carlo Forti on the road from Rome to Sinigaglia at any one time? I cannot swear that I saw either one or the other; I do not recollect; if there was any one marked point where I might have spoken to them I might have recollected it; but I do not recollect which of the two it was.
Do you remember at Foligno having a difficulty about post-horses, or at the stage after Foligno? No, I do not remember that.
Do not you remember that you were obliged to take the same post-horses you had at Foligno on another stage, in consequence of that difficulty? That happened so often, that I do not recollect it; at that time it happened very often.
Can you point out any place on that journey from Rome to Sinigaglia where that did happen? No, I cannot; I mean to say, in travelling that often happens.
Do you remember this happening in your way to Rome? No, I do not.
You say you do not remember seeing Carlo; do not you remember seeing Sacchi on that journey from Rome to Sinigaglia? I do not recollect; my memory is not marked by either one or the other; I do not know which it was.
Will you say that Sacchi did not ride by the side of the princess's carriage during that journey? Not having seen him, I cannot say.
How far were you from the princess's carriage on the journey? More or less; sometimes close, sometimes at a distance.
Will you swear that you did not see Sacchi in the course of your journey from Rome to Sinigaglia? I cannot swear to a thing I do not recollect.
Did you ever see Pergami's wife? No.
Do you know any other of Pergami's family besides Louis? Yes, there were more in the family.
Who were they? I do not know their names, but there was one called Raggioneto; I do not know what his name was; another was called Bernard.
Was not Bernard the Raggioneto? No.
Was it Francesco? I do not know whether his name was Francesco or not.
Do you know Faustina? Yes:
What relation is she to Pergami? His sister.
The countess Oldi you have mentioned? I have.
When did you first know that she was the sister of Pergami? I had heard of it shortly after she came to the house, but I did not know it positively for some time afterwards.
Did you hear of it or know of it at the time she came into the service of her royal highness? No, I did not.
532 Did you know Faustina's husband; have you ever seen him, Martini? Yes, I have seen him.
Where have you seen him? At the house of the princess, the Villa d'Este.
When was it that Louis Pergami began to dine at the table of her royal highness? I think it was some short time after our return from the voyage:
Did Faustina ever dine with her royal highness? I never saw her.
Were there any other of Pergami's relations in the family besides those you have mentioned; do you know Pietro his nephew? Yes.
Carlini? Yes.
Another nephew? I do not know whether he was a nephew or not.
Is he a relation of Pergami's? I have heard he is.
Do you believe he is? I believe so, from having heard so.
What situations are Pietro and Carlini in in her royal highness's service? Carlini was on the long voyage.
What situation was he in, a footman? I do not know what situation he was in; he was a servant.
In what situation was Pietro? I do not know whether I am speaking to the right person; Pietro, as I imagine, was in the stables.
After your return from the long voyage, did not the mother of Pergami begin to he called Madame Livia in the family? Not more so after than before, to my knowledge.
Had she ever dined at her royal highness's table before you set out on that voyage? I do not recollect; she may or she may not; it is not fixed upon my memory.
At Pesaro did not she regularly dine with her royal highness? She did.
And Louis? And Louis.
Did Bernardo ever dine at the table with her royal highness at the Barona? I do not recollect; I do not think he ever did.
Not at the Barona? I do not recollect having seen him.
Having seen those members of the family whom you have mentioned as dining with her royal highness at her table, did you ever sec Pergam's wife, the baroness, there? Never; I have never seen her.
Neither at the Villad'Este, at Pesaro, or the Barona? Neither the one or the other.
How far is the Barona from Milan? About two miles.
Are you to be understood to say, that although you have seen the mother and the brother of Pergami and his sister at the table, and those other members of the family in her royal highness's service, you never saw his wife at any of the places at which her royal highness resided? I have never seen his wife.
How long were you with her royal high ness? Three years.
533 During that period, did she never come to see her child at her royal highness's house? I never saw her.
When you first joined her royal highness at Genoa, did you go there accidentally, or were you sent for by her royal highness? It was by her royal highness's command. From England? From England. Where do you reside at present? At No. 5, Bury Street, St. James's.
Have you not frequently been with her majesty at Brandenburgh House? I have.
Almost every day, or every day? Not almost every day, I have not been there since Saturday.
Before that, were you not there frequently? I have been only twice since my coming to England the last time, once to make my bow on arriving, and once I think on Saturday; I think those are the only times I have been at Brandenburgh House. Did you see Schiavini there? I did. Both times? Yes, both times. How long have you been in England? I came last Friday week, I think it was Friday week.
Were you in England before? I have been twice in England.
How long before that? About a week; I was ten days at home at Rouen.
How long were you in England before you returned for those ten days? I think about five weeks.
Re-examined by Mr. Tindal.
You were asked, whether Faustina the sister of Pergami, was in the family of her royal highness, and you were afterwards asked, whether she was in the house of her royal highness at Genoa; you were understood to say, you did not know she was in the family, and afterwards that she was in the house; explain what you meant by that distinction? I meant to say, that I knew she was in the house at Genoa, but I never imagined she belonged to the household.
You stated, that her royal highness at the Villa d'Este joined in certain games you mentioned, did the whole of her household join in them, or only the upper attendants? Only the upper attendants; the footmen never attempted to join in the amusements; the pages, Hieronimus, the chamber-maids, and any friends that might have been at the house.
You stated, that certain plays were performed at the Villa d'Este? Yes.
How many years ago is it since those spectacles took place? I think it was on the return from the long voyage in the winter of 1816.
Have you any better recollection of the incidents or plot of those entertainments than that which you have staled? None in the least, but common amusement.
Do you remember, when you were at Tnuis, a doctor being taken on board? I do.
534 Was it before or after that time that Pergami's sleeping place was altered? After that time; the doctor occupied the cabin, not exactly the cabin that Pergami had occupied, but there were three persons shifted, I think the count Schiavini came further aft, William Austin came next to him, and the doctor took the cabin between.
After that alteration was made, where was Pergami's bed placed? In the dining-room, within a screen.
You stated, that on the occasion of the accident you described, when the princess came below, you did not know where Pergami went, did he or not go into the cabin which the princess went into? There could not have been room; I do not recollect that he went into the cabin, but he could not have gone into the cabin without sleeping upon the ground, besides, the whole of the front of the cabin was cut out, I cut it out myself, as low down as about three feet.
Of what was the front of the cabin composed, of what materials? Of canvas and plank.
You have stated in answer to a question, that you believed Pergami slept under the tent, what is the ground of that belief? Because in the time of the squall on the coast of Caramania, which made her royal highness come down below, Pergami told me the sea came into the tent, consequently he must have been there, or he could not have known it.
Have you a distinct recollection as to the dress of Pergami on that occasion? No, I have not.
The question is not how he was dressed, but whether he was dressed or not? Oh, he was dressed.
Do you believe he was dressed every night when he was under the tent?
The Solicitor Generalwas astonished to hear such a question from his learned friend. He was astonished to hear him say, "Do you believe he was dressed?" to his own witness; and apprehended the question could not be put.
The Lord Chancellorthought that, under the circumstances of the case, the question could nut be put.
Of what nation were the crew of the polacre composed? Of Neapolitans and Sicilians.
You have stated that half the crew were upon the deck during the night? Yes.
You stated, in an answer, that you though tit necessary that some person besides the princess should sleep under the tent, what was the ground of that necessity? It was never mentioned to me, but I have never considered it otherwise than necessary, the princess sleeping on deck by herself would not at all have been right.
Were you acquainted with the characters of 535 the different sailors who were employed on board that polacre, before you sailed? Not at all, I had never seen a single man of them before.
Do you know whether her royal highness had seen them? Certainly not; the vessel was hired at Messina, while she was at Cattania.
You have slated, that you have seen the princess walking arm in arm with Pergami, have you ever seen her walking in the same manner with others of her household? Yes, she has walked with me; I have seen her with Schævini, and other gentlemen who have come to visit her at the Villa d'Este, and so forth.
You have stated, that Pergami was made grand master of the order of St. Caroline, do you know who were appointed as the knights of that order? I was one myself; Mr. Flinn was one; and William Austin, and Hieronimus, and I think Camera, I think doctor Mocatti was one also, in consequence of his coming as far as Naples to join her royal highness for the voyage, but not being able to come then, by not getting his passport in time from the Austrian government.
Was he made an actual knight or an honorary knight of the order? I do not know; it was only in consideration of his being appointed to accompany her royal highness upon the voyage, and not being able, from an obstacle which was thrown in the way by the government under which he lived; I am not quite sure even that he is.
Were the persons whom you have mentioned, exclusive of the doctor, the whole of the persons who arrived at Syracuse with her royal highness? The knights, that is the whole; I have never heard of any body else except the doctor whom we took with us; I am not quite sure whether he was or not.
Was this order, such as it was, conferred on all the suite who arrived at Jerusalem? No, only on the persons I have mentioned.
Mr. Tindalrequested leave to put one question that he ought to have put on the examination in chief.
The Counsel was informed that he might do so, the Counsel in support of the Bill being at liberty to cross-examine upon it.
Was there any English sailor on board the polacre? There was; as, far as Athens.
What became of him? He went home from that place.
Have you ever seen him since? Never.
Have you ever been examined by any person upon the subject of your evidence?
The Attorney Generalwould be glad to learn how that question could possibly apply, in a re-examination? It did not apply.
Mr. Broughamcontended, that it did apply, and very minutely. The object of it might be to know whether the witness had ever been 536 to Brandenburgh House, for instance, or elsewhere: and what had occurred relative to this matter on that occasion; whether he had been once or twice, or how often, or not at all. The question did apply, and very minutely.
The Counsel were informed, that in the opinion of the House, the question might be asked.
Has any application been made to you for information upon this subject, on the part of his majesty's government? I was ordered to attend the Admiralty, where I was asked where I had seen James last, and if I knew where he was; except that, none that I recollect.
§ Examined by the Lords.
Earl of Rosebery.—You have stated, that you sometimes saw the princess at breakfast at Genoa, did you see her royal highness frequently at breakfast? Only once is impressed upon my memory.
You did not see Pergami at breakfast with her royal highness at that time? Pergami was in the room, but he appeared to me to be waiting.
He was not sitting down? No, certainly not.
Was there any other servant in the room with her royal highness at that time? I do not recollect that there was.
Directing your attention to the tent on the journey from St. Jean d'Acre to Jerusalem, was there an outer and an inner tent, one tent placed within another? It was a double tent, there was a gallery round the inside of it.
Do you recollect whether any body lay down within that gallery? I have never seen them lying down, I have seen in that gallery a mattress for somebody to lie upon; I have seen the servants behind there; I have seen the mattress, but I do not know that they slept there, because I was never in the tent at that time.
In point of fact, you do not know whether any body slept there or not? I do not.
Referring to the tent on board the polacre, do you know whether any person could open the tent from the deck, after it was closed at night? I should think, certainly, by pulling the two parts aside it was very easy.
Do you know whether it was fastened inside at that part where it could be separated in that manner? No, I do not.
When you ascended the ladder to go into the tent through the dining-room, which you state you did on more than one occasion, did her royal highness speak to you? No; I merely ran up the ladder, and finding my mistake, of course I went down immedi- 537 ately; I hardly got my head up to the combings of the hatchway before I discovered that the tent was closed, and that her royal highness had retired; of course I went down directly.
You are understood to have stated, that that was after the light had been put out? Yes, the light must have been out then, it was dark.
Your only knowledge of the princess being there was from the fact of the tent being closed? Exactly.
Do you know that any other person slept under the tent besides Pergami and the princess during that voyage? I do not know but from having heard that others slept there; I do not know; I never even saw her royal highness sleep there; I never was in the tent at the time.
The following Extract was read from the former Evidence:
"Do you not believe, that on the return from Jaffa, Pergami slept constantly under the tent? I have heard that he did sleep under the tent, and I believe he did sleep under the tent.
"Without referring to what you have beard, do you not believe that he slept under the tent? I have already said so.
"Believing that, do you think that degrading or not, to her royal highness? No, I think it was necessary that somebody should sleep near her royal highness on deck on that occasion; I have heard that other people have slept there too."
Do you know that any other person besides those two ever slept there during that time? I do not know it, but by having heard it.
In the journey from Rome to Sinigaglia, you have stated you have no decisive recollection which of the couriers accompanied the princess, that you have nothing to mark it in your memory? No, I have not.
Do you remember either of those couriers going before the princess on that journey in a carriage? I have a slight recollection of it, but I do not positively recall it; I believe one of them did, but I have no positive recollection as to the fact.
The circumstance being recalled to your recollection, can you state your belief which of the two it was? I do not recollect, if I should believe either, it would be Sacchini.
But you cannot be positive? I cannot be positive.
§ Earl Grey.—When you stated that you thought it necessary some persons should sleep near her royal highness on deck, did you mean that you thought it necessary some male attendant should sleep near her royal highness? I meant that.
Under the circumstances in which you believe Pergami to have slept under the tent on deck, did it convey to your mind any suspicion of an improper connexion between him and her royal highness? No, it did not.
Earl of Liverpool.—Do you knew where captain Flinn slept, on the voyage from Jaffa to Capo d'Anza? He slept in his cabin, and I recollect some nights his having hung his cot upon deck.
Do you know, or not, that during the whole voyage, or the greater part of the voyage, from Jaffa homewards, captain Flinn hung his cot upon deck? I have frequently seen his cot there, I do not know how many nights he slept there.
Did you not act as the private secretary to her royal highness? I did.
Do you know any thing relative to the purchase of the Barona, and of its being assigned to Pergami?
Mr. Denmansubmitted, with great deference, that the question ought not to be put: He did not mean to object to the question itself, which was perfectly proper under other circumstances, but as the witness, from his situation as private secretary to her majesty might be in possession of confidential communications, and might know something respecting the written instruments between the buyer and seller which he ought not to be called upon to disclose, it would be better, as he conceived, to defer the question.
§ The Witness was directed to withdraw.
The Earl of Liverpoolsaid, that he only wanted to know the fact whether the princess had bought the estate, and given it to Pergami.
The Lord Chancellorobserved, that the witness might be asked whether an estate was purchased and conveyed, and if he staled that it was conveyed by writings, that the examination must there stop.
§ The Witness was again called in.
Earl of Liverpool.—Do you know whether Pergami is in possession of the Barona? No, I do not, at this present moment.
Do you know whether he has ever been? I believe it was his; I do not know, but I believe it was.
Was not the name changed to the Villa Pergami; was it not called the Villa Pergami? I think it was.
Marquis of Lansdown.—Do you know where the countess Oldi and Victorine slept on the journey to Jerusalem? I think the countess Oldi had a tent of her own, but I do not know whether she slept there or not; of whether she slept under one of the tents with the chambermaids who were there, I do not know.
Or Victorine? Or Victorine: I have never seen them sleeping, therefore I do not Know.
When you state, that her royal highness and Pergami may have been walking arm in arm upon the deck of the Polacre, do you mean that her royal highness may have been leaning upon the arm of Pergami? Yes.
Did her royal highness, during the time 539 that she was on board the Polacre, ever lean upon your arm in the same manner? It is very possible, I do not recollect the point marked, but her royal highness has walked arm in arm with me very often.
During the period of your residence in Italy, have you ever seen any entertainment, either at the house of her royal highness or at any other place, in which the characters of Harlequin and Columbine were sustained in the same manner that they usually are in this country, in what is called a harlequin farce? All I have seen is, I have seen Louis Pergami in a Harlequin's dress, and more than once I have seen him.
"Can you state whether you have ever seen the part of Harlequin sustained in Italy in the same manner that it is in England? I do not think I ever did.
Earl of Limerick.—Upon those occasions, when you state that you believe Pergami slept under that tent, have you any reason to think that any third person, male or female, slept under that tent? I do not know.
Will you swear you never saw Pergami kiss her royal highness? I will swear I never saw Pergami kiss her royal highness.
You are understood to say, in a late part of your examination, that you thought it necessary that a person should sleep under the tent; what did you conceive that necessity to arise from? I never represented the necessity myself; but upon the occasion of thinking of it, I must confess that I think it was necessary for some person to be near her royal highness; a woman alone upon a ship's deck at sea, I should think perfectly authorized in having some person near her.
Would not that necessity have been equally met by any of her numerous suite having either their hammocks slung upon deck, or some person mounting guard outside the tent, instead of sleeping in a covered tent, in the dark? The thing never suggested itself to me before; but the suite was not so numerous as to admit of one person being always on watch round her tent; there could have been only captain Flinn and myself, as to count Schiavini, you could not expect from him, a man who had never put his foot on a ship's deck before, to keep such a watch upon deck.
Could not a hammock have been slung equally well for any such person, as it was slung for lieutenant Flinn, who usually did sleep on the deck? A hammock might have been slung there, but the act of Flinn's bringing his cot on deck was merely to have the cool air, to be more comfortable.
Would it have been a severe hardship on that English sailor to whom you have referred? He was not on board.
Would it not have equally answered the purpose to meet that necessity you have stated, if a female had been placed in that tent instead of a male person, or besides the male person the tent being fully equal to the 540 containing three persons? I cannot say as to that, there might have been fifty other ways, as to that matter; we might have all of us slept round the tent outside as well as one.
Was there ever any order given to the officer of the watch to watch especially over the person of her royal highness? No, I do not recollect it; the officer of the watch was the mate of the vessel.
Were any suspicions entertained by you of the crew, or any part of the crew? None.
Then it was not from any apprehensions of the crew, you conceived it necessary that a man, a male, should sleep under the tent upon the deck with the princess of Wales? When I saw the thing, I looked upon it in that way.
In what way? That it was not at all improper that he should have slept there, her royal highness being on deck by herself.
Are you to be understood to say distinctly, that you do not conceive there is any impropriety in a male person sleeping in the same tent, the lights being out, with a female? From the manner that the hatchway was open, and all the doors below, there was no mystery in it whatever.
As you are a married man, would you have any objection, or conceive it improper that Mrs. Hownam should so sleep in a tent in the dark with a male person? I trust that every man looks upon his wife without making any comparison or exception; I never made the comparison.
You cannot form an opinion upon it? I cannot form an opinion.
The Earl of Limerick was about to put another question, in his preface to which he used the word comparison, when.
Mr. Broughamobjected to the use made of the word. He observed, that if it was taken down in the Minutes, it might give a meaning to the former answer of the witness, different from that which he certainly intended. The inference might be, that he wished no comparison to be made between Mrs. Hownam and the illustrious person, and such an inference would be untrue.
The Earl of Limericksaid, he had made no comparison, He did not wish either to hurt the feelings of the witness, or to have any thing put in the Minutes that ought not to appear:
Do you say that you see no impropriety, situated as the tent was, open towards the deck below, in a male and a female sleeping so placed in such a tent? I do not conceive there was any impropriety in the thing, because I must have felt it, and I did not feel it; I have seen so many situations that her royal highness has been placed in, in the course of her travels, that I do not look upon it as improper.
What do you mean by saying, you have seen so many situations, in the course of her royal highness's travels, that you do not 541 think it improper? At Ephesus the princess of Wales lay under a sorry shed, that you would hardly put a cow into in this country, in the midst of horses, mules, Jews, Turks—all I can say is, that the idea did not strike me as improper.
You recollected that Louis Pergami was dressed as a Harlequin, you do not recollect, it seems, the dress or character of the princess of Wales; did you see Louis Pergami and the princess dance, in any part of those representations, together? I have seen Louis Pergami frequently dressed as a Harlequin, and it was that which impressed upon my memory that he was dressed as a Harlequin; that evening we all danced together, and I was dressed as a Greek.
As in this piece of Harlequin and Columbine the principal part most probably was not omitted, who did play Columbine? I do not recollect; if I did recollect that the princess played Columbine, I would state it.
Your recollection served you as to another of these farces, in which you state the princess played the part of an Automaton, is that correct? Yes.
You were understood to say, that, part of the farce consisted in the representation of the selling of this Automaton, and, of course, the buying of her? It was the plot of the history that has marked it upon my memory.
What did the Automaton do; was she sitting, standing, lying, running, or what? I think in a box standing up.
Do you conceive, that these acts, so stated by you, are consonant to the high dignity of the royal personage about whom we have been speaking? I do not consider it in the least derogatory to her royal highness's rank, knowing the pleasure she takes in that sort of entertainment.
§ The Counsel were directed to withdraw, and the House adjourned.