HL Deb 03 December 1819 vol 41 cc697-8

Their lordships went into a committee on this bill.

Lord Holland

objected both to the permanency and generality of the; measure; at least, he said it would be fit to exempt from its operation school-masters who might employ Serjeants to drill boys under their tuition.

The Earl of Liverpool

replied, that he could not see how it was possible to frame the bill otherwise than as it now stood, if it was to be made effectual for its purposes. The bill prohibited all drilling, but it authorized lords-lieutenant to grant licences for drilling. This power he had no objection to have extended to other magistrates. It was not, therefore, to be apprehended that any of the inconveniences alluded to by the noble lord could arise from the bill as now constructed.

The bill was then read, clause by clause, in the committee, and the report was ordered to be received on Monday next. Their lordships were about to retire, when

The Earl of Strathmore

requested the attention of their lordships for a few moments. He was anxious that the bills which were now passing should be carried into execution with all possible speed, and with the desired effect. He understood that the statement he had last night made of the numbers who associated in a part of the country with which he was connected, had just been called in question, and denied in another place. He could assure their lordships that that part of the country was much disturbed. What he had said last night of the numbers of the disaffected was rather below than above the mark. In confirmation of this statement he would refer to a noble duke, the lord-lieutenant of the neighbouring county to that in which he lived, whom he saw in the House. The laws which their lordships were enacting were not, in his apprehension, stronger than the necessity of the case required: he even doubted whether they would be sufficient for meeting the evils which they were intended to repress. Not a moment should be lost in putting them into execution, and most happy should he be to find that they affected their purpose1 without having recourse to more vigorous measures. There was not a man in the House more unwilling than he was to restrict or to suspend the constitutional rights of the people without the necessity.

The Duke of Northumberland

said, he had had no intention of obtruding himself upon the attention of their lordships; but having been so pointedly called upon, he could assure their lordships' that the statement of the noble earl was not only strictly correct, but rather short of the real fact. By a return which had been made to him, upon the accuracy of which he could rely, the number associated in the several collieries amounted to 16,600 persons. He understood that all these had arms. He had since understood, and they had themselves said, that in the district between the Tyne and the Weir, and extending to Carlisle, there were 100,000 men with arms, ready to rise and unite together.

Lord Redesdale

said, he had that morning received a letter from Newcastle, which enabled him most fully to corroborate, as from the latest accounts, the statements which had been made by both the noble duke and earl.

The Earl of Strathmore

said, he had just received intelligence that two of the most worthy magistrates in the county had been compelled to abandon their homes, through apprehension of the danger which threatened them. They were now actually residing with their families in the town of Newcastle. For his own part, he felt what was due to himself and the repose of that part of the country, and the moment he had heard of this transaction he had given orders to have his dedimus made out; and he could assure the House he would be found on his post in the hour of danger.

Their lordships then adjourned.