Lords Sitting of 2 February 1818

CLERK OF THE PARLIAMENT—OFFICES IN REVERSION.
Earl Grosvenorrose to inquire, whether any thing had been done in consequence of what passed on the first day of the session, on the subject of the appointment, by reversion, to the office of clerk of the parliament. It was his intention to move for an account of all offices held by grants in reversion.
The Earl of Liverpoolsaid, that the committee to which the patent granting the reversion was to be referred, would have several objects submitted to its consideration, the investigation of which might occupy some time. It was, however, his intention, in the course of the session, to propose, relative to the office of clerk of the parliament, some legislative measure which would operate prospectively. To fulfil this intention, a bill would be necessary, which he should introduce.
The Earl of Lauderdalesaid, that as the object his noble friend had in view was to render the office of clerk of the parliament, an efficient office, the motion had his approbation.
Earl Grosvenorwished an inquiry to be instituted into the nature of all offices granted in reversion, and would be glad to obtain an official account of their salaries and duties. He did not know how far the noble lord meant his measure should extend, but he apprehended he did not intend to go the length of abolishing the office of clerk of parliament. Nothing more strikingly showed the impropriety of granting offices in reversion than what had occurred with respect to the one at present under consideration. He was persuaded that the gentleman who lately held the office of clerk of parliament would never have asked the reversion for his son, could he have foreseen
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that that son would have filled the situation of ambassador to a foreign court at the time that the duties of his office as clerk of parliament required his presence in that House. It was his intention to propose the abolition of the practice of granting places in reversion, and that the abolition should be extended not only to grants from the crown, but to those made by the judges, and indeed to grants in reversion of every description connected with the public service or the institutions of the country. In the mean time, he moved an address to the Prince Regent, praying that he would order an account to be laid before the House of all grants in reversion of offices held immediately from the crown, and also all grants in reversion of other public offices.
The Earl of Liverpoolobjected to the general nature of the motion. If the noble earl confined it to those offices held under the Crown, he should be ready to agree to it.
The Lord Chancellorthought the noble earl might divide his motion, if he continued of opinion that he ought to call for information as to both species of offices. For his own part, he had on a former occasion stated his sentiments to the House on this question, and he still continued of the same opinion as to the utility of the offices referred to in the latter part of the motion.
The Earl of Lauderdalecould not see any necessity for his noble friend pressing his motion in its present shape, nor could he understand the motive of the noble earl opposite in rejecting it, as the information asked for was in fact already before the House. At all events, he thought it would not be necessary for his noble friend to adhere to his large motion, and therefore he recommended him to divide it.
The Lord Chancellorsaid, he should be very well pleased to sec a statement of all grants in reversion laid before their lordships, and probably should himself shape a motion calculated to attain that object. His opinion with regard to offices granted by the judges, as he had already intimated remained, unaltered. Many offices formerly bestowed by the chancellor were now in the gift of the Crown; but with regard to the judges in the other courts, the power of giving those offices was necessary, as a part of their emoluments arose from those gifts. Were it not for

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this, the incomes of the judges would be totally inadequate to the laborious and important duties they had to perform.
Earl Grosvenorsaid, that all that had occurred since the subject was last discussed had only tended to fortify him in his opinion, that nothing could be more injurious to the interests of the public than granting offices in reversion. In saying this, he by no means meant to suggest, that he thought the learned lord, or any of the judges, were overpaid for their services. What he objected to wag not the amount of their emoluments, but the mode in winch they were obtained. With regard to the motion, he was willing to divide it, and to press, for the present, only the first part relative to grants from the Crown.
The motion thus altered was agreed to.

PAPERS ON THE STATE OF THE COUNTRY.
Lord Sidmouthsaid, he had now, in compliance with the commands of the Prince Regent, to lay before their lordships, certain papers relative to the state of the country. It was his intention to have moved that those papers should be referred to a secret committee; but he was induced to postpone the execution of that intention, as two noble lords (the marquis of Lansdowne and lord Holland) who wished to be present, were prevented from attending by a melancholy occurrence (the death of the earl of Upper Ossory.) He understood, however, that one of those noble lords might be expected to attend to-morrow. He would, therefore, on that day move for the appointment of a committee.