The Earl of Liverpoolpresented to the House a Message from the Prince Regent. The Message [for which see the proceedings of the Commons] was read by lord Ellenborough, who sat on the woolsack, and for the time acted for the Lord Chancellor, who was indisposed. The earl of Liverpool moved 286 that the Message be taken into consideration tomorrow, and that the Lords be summoned.
§ Earl Greydid not rise to state objections at any length to the proposition which the noble earl had just made to their lordships. He still, however, notwithstanding all he had heard or seen on the subject, remained of opinion that before they were called upon to concur in an Address, founded on a treaty purporting to be made in support of certain stipulations and arrangements, they ought to know what those stipulations and arrangements were. This at present they did not know; and they were placed in this awkward predicament, that they must thus incidentally pledge the faith of the House to the approval and support of arrangements and stipulations of which they could know nothing. That, however, was not the point to which he now wished to call their lordships attention. He rose for the purpose of requesting the noble earl opposite to state precisely in what situation the country stood. Were we actually at war, or were we not? and in what light, with reference to the subject of war or peace, was the Message and the Address about to be moved in consequence to be regarded? He trusted the noble earl would not feel it inconsistent with his duty to give the desired explanation upon that head.
The Earl of Liverpoolsaid, that he was just on the point of presenting the treaties and other papers connected with this subject, when the noble earl spoke [his lordship then handed them in], and from these, he trusted, would be derived all the requisite information as to those points which they would be called upon to consider tomorrow: with respect to the matters touched upon by the noble earl who had just spoken, he did not conceive that the House, by the Address which he should, propose, would be at all pledged to the approval or support of the stipulations and arrangements to which the noble earl referred; for the question, whether their lordships would concur in such measures as it might be necessary to adopt against the common enemy, and a system proved by experience to be incompatible with the peace and independence of nations, was entirely distinct from the question, whether their lordships should approve or not of these arrangements and stipulations. He did not conceive, therefore, that the House would be at all pre-judged 287 in that respect by agreeing to the Address which he proposed tomorrow to submit for their consideration. With regard to the question, in what situation was the country placed, were we at peace, or were we actually at war? he was perfectly ready to give the noble earl and their lordships such an explanation on that head as, he trusted, would be found satisfactory. If the noble earl wished to know whether hostilities had really commenced, that is, whether letters of marque had been issued and ships captured, or any blow had been actually struck, he had to answer, that in that sense hostilities had not yet actually commenced: but he should deceive the noble earl, and deceive the House, if he were not distinctly to avow, that this Message was brought down with a view to the commencement of hostilities against the system mentioned in the Message, as soon as it should be found expedient to do so. He was aware that the expediency of beginning the war at an earlier or later period might depend upon various circumstances; but as to the nature and object of the Message, it was certainly to be regarded as a war message; and in concurring in the Address which he should have the honour to propose tomorrow, their lordships would be understood to concur in the propriety of commencing hostilities in concert with our Allies against the system to which he had adverted, as soon as, in point of expediency, it might be judged proper to begin the war. This was undoubtedly the nature and purport of the Message, and he wished it to be so understood.
The Earl of Liverpoolreplied, that it was not as yet ratified by that power; that the ratification had not yet arrived, but was every day expected. The noble earl would find, however, in one of the papers now laid on the table enough to show, that there could be no doubt as to the intention of Austria to ratify the Treaty.
§ The motion was then agreed to.