Lords Sitting of 10 March 1815

PETITIONS RESPECTING THE CORN LAWS.
Earl Stanhopepresented a petition against any alteration in the Corn Laws from the parish of St. Ann's, Limehouse, and also petitions from several other quarters, having the same object, all of which were laid on the table. His lordship adverted to the fact of his having proposed a resolution last year, which had for its object to relieve the pressure on the agricultural interest, without raising the price of corn. He now gave notice, that on Thursday he

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would submit to their lordships consideration, the same resolution, with a small alteration, in order to prevent the possibility of being misunderstood. He therefore moved that the Lords be summoned for Thursday next. Ordered.
Lord Grenvillepresented a petition to the same effect, from the parish of St. John, Clerkenwell, signed by 9,448 persons. His lordship also presented a petition to the same effect from the incorporation of Weavers in Glasgow. His lordship then presented a petition to the same effect from Greenwich, in Kent. This petition was read, and stated in strong and pointed terms the inability of the petitioners to conceive how the imposing a high duty on importation should not have the effect of raising the price of corn. His lordship said it was a very able paper both in its statement of facts and arguments. The petitioners noticed the regulations now in progress in the House of Commons and prayed that they might not be adopted.
The Earl of Lauderdaleobserved, that it was contrary to the rules of the House to receive petitions against bills that were in progress in the other House. They could know nothing about such bills till they came before them, and therefore they could admit of no petitions against them. His noble friend had said, that this was the ablest paper he had ever read; but at the proper period he should be ready to show that the arguments were altogether unfounded; and he was only sorry that his noble friend, by the approbation which he expressed, had rendered them his own.
Lord Grenvillesaid, that his noble friend had somewhat misapprehended the terms in which he had expressed his approbation. To say that this was the ablest paper that he had ever read, would certainly be saying a great deal; but he had said, and repeated it, that the paper was very ably written. With respect to the receiving of the petition, it had been decided by their lordships that they ought to receive petitions against any measure which was reported to be in contemplation. Upon this principle, it appeared to him, that the present petition might be received.
The Lord Chancellorsaid, that it certainly was against the rules of the House to receive petitions against specific measures stated to be in progress in the other House; though petitions against any regulations generally, such as petitions
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praying generally that there might be no alteration in the corn laws, might and had been received.
The Earl of Liverpoolstated, that the rule of the House was as the learned lord had stated it. This petition was partly against any regulations, and partly against a specific measure depending in the other House. There could exist in no quarter any desire to refuse the petition; and he recommended to the noble lord, not to persist in presenting it for the present, as he would soon probably have an opportunity of presenting it without any doubt as to its regularity.
The Earl of Lauderdalesaid, he had no desire to prevent the petition being received; and, indeed, he would hardly have urged the objection now, if he believed it could have the effect of preventing its being received; but it ought to be withdrawn till the proper time.
Lord Grenvilleobserved, that the principle was to throw the doors wide open to petitioners, and their lordships would therefore be willing perhaps to relax a little on a question of this nature. However, as he should soon have an opportunity of presenting it without any doubt as to its regularity, he would withdraw it for the present.
Earl Greysaid, that whatever difference of opinion might prevail on this subject, all must agree that it was a question of great delicacy, and of vast importance. It was manifest, therefore, that every thing ought to be avoided which had the least appearance of hurry and precipitation. There were, besides, some points connected with the question on which their lordships had not as yet obtained all the information which they ought to have, before they were called upon to decide on a measure of this importance. It appeared to him that a committee ought therefore to be appointed to procure further information, and lay the result before the House. When this was done, their lordships would come better prepared to the discussion of the measure now about to be brought before them. Having it in view to propose to their lordships the appointment of such a committee, he gave notice of a motion to that effect for Monday, and moved that their lordships be summoned for that day.
The Earl of Carlislewished the noble earl opposite to state exactly to what extent it was proposed to raise the price of grain, or the reasons which induced

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him to believe that the measure in contemplation would not raise the price of corn. His lordship deprecated precipitation in a matter of this importance, and observed, that it was particularly unadvisable to hurry it forward, while they had such riots in the streets, and a military force at the door. He himself was adverse to the measure in its present shape, but was open to conviction.
The Earl of Liverpoolsaid, that this was not the time for entering into the merits of the question, but begged leave to say, that he did not conceive the effect of the measure to be proposed to the House, would be to raise the price of corn at all. This he should be prepared to show at the proper time. His opinion was, that some regulation was necessary; but as to the sacrifice of one species of interest in order to promote another, he utterly disclaimed any such idea, and no measure that he conceived to have that tendency could ever have his countenance or support. Such a proceeding was to be avoided in legislation generally, but more particularly in legislating on a subject of this nature. The measure which he should have the honour to propose to their lordships would have for its object the advantage of the whole community, and not that of any particular class at the expense of the rest. As to their having a military force at their doors, care had been taken never to call upon the military to act till it became absolutely necessary; and as to the clamour in the streets, he had no desire to proceed with greater precipitation merely on that account. He only wished their lordships to proceed as if there had been no such clamour. The existence of Parliament depended on their deliberations being free.
The Earl of Carlisledid not mean to impute any blame to ministers for the employment of the military force, which certainly appeared to be necessary; but his objection was to the proceeding with precipitation while those riots were going on. He was hardly a free agent while considering the question under such circumstances, for rather than yield any thing to the clamour in the streets, he should be willing to vote for the Bill with all its imperfections on its head.
The Earl of Lauderdaleinsisted, that the effect of the measure would be to render corn cheap, and to promote the interests of the whole community. His reasons for that opinion he should be prepared to state fully at the proper season.