Lords Sitting of 4 July 1815

Preamble
Earl Greypresented a Petition from Mr. Mallison, complaining that he had not been duly compensated for his intention for saving the lives of shipwrecked seamen, and that he had applied in vain to the Admiralty. The noble lord said that he could not speak to the merits of this invention, but that he felt it his duty to present the Petition; which was ordered to lie on the table.
The Marquis of Lansdownestated, that he had two Petitions; one from the Surgeons and Medical Practitioners of Waterford, praying to be put upon the same footing as gentlemen of the Same profession in this country; and the other from the practising Solicitors of the county of Ross, against the additional Stamp-duties. To the admission of the latter he was aware that a certain objection was urged, to the principle of which he could not by any means subscribe: but the former was of course unexceptionable, and he should consider it his duty to call the attention of the House to it on some future occasion. The noble lord added, that he should also feel it right to bring the principle which applied to the admissibility of the other petition distinctly under the consideration of the House.
The Petition from the Medical Practitioners was, after a few observations from the Lord Chancellor, and lords Limerick
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and Liverpool, ordered to lie on the table.
Earl Stanhopeadverted to a Petition which he presented some time ago from a person who had been confined above three years on the ground of bankruptcy This person had applied in vain to the Lord Chancellor to be heard personally, but the learned lord expressed doubts of his authority to have the petition brought up, in consequence of which be (lord Stanhope) had it in contemplation to bring in a Bill to have those doubts removed, with a view to have justice done to the petitioner, who denied the validity of the bankruptcy; but he was now glad to learn that the doubts alluded to were found to be unwarrantable, and therefore he did not feel it necessary to press the Bill.—The noble lord then gave notice of his intention to move tomorrow the second reading of the Vaccination Bill, with a view to have it rejected. This measure proposed to have half-a-crown given to every pauper who had a child vaccinated, while the matter used in vaccination was, according to the statement of its own advocates, of three different descriptions—the first good, the second indifferent, and the third good for nothing. Such a measure, he had no hesitation in pronouncing the most ridiculous ever introduced into that House.

IRISH SPIRITS DUTY BILL.
On the committal of the Irish Spirits Additional Duty Bill,
The Earl of Donoughmoreanimadverted upon this measure, which he conceived peculiarly grievous to those upon whom it was intended to operate. This Bill, which, from some omission or misunderstanding of its character, passed sub silentio in the Commons, proposed not only 6d. upon every gallon of spirits distilled, after the passing of the Act, but to impose that addition upon all the stock on hand, with such an addition also upon malt as would serve to produce an additional tax of 1½d. per gallon on spirits. But to subject the stock of spirits and, malt on hand to the additional duty he thought extremely unjust, and the more so, as it was inconsistent with the English principle of taxation upon spirits, which in no instance, when any advance of duty took place, extended to the stock on hand. Such a measure, then, as the present obviously required further consideration; and when the consolidation of the two Treasuries should take place, which mea-

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sure was expected, he hoped the result would be the extension of the English principle of taxation to Ireland, at least upon this subject.
The Earl of Liverpoolobserved, that it was a principle uniformly recognized in taxation, when the duty upon any article was advanced, to extend that advance to the stock on hand, because upon such advance the holder of such stock had the power (which he never failed to exercise) of charging that advance upon the consumer; and it was the obvious duty of the Legislature to provide that what the Consumer paid in consequence of the increased tax should come into the pocket of the public. Such, for instance, was the case with regard to every augmentation of the tax upon wine. This principle was no doubt never acted upon with respect to spirits in England, because here the tax was not imposed as in Ireland upon the spirit itself, but upon the wash. As to the noble lord's concluding observation, he trusted that when the consolidation of the two Treasuries should take place, such a measure arranged with due caution would be found exceedingly advantageous to all parties, and that the Irish public would be peculiarly benefited by its operation. Care would, no doubt, be taken, in regulating the taxation, to pay due regard to local circumstances, and that the principle of the measure in contemplation should be equally fair towards England and Ireland.
The Earl of Donoughmoresaid, that the quantity of wash to make a certain quantity of spirits being duly ascertained, he could see no reason to justify the distinction maintained by the noble Secretary, between the taxation of English and Irish spirits. When, however, the great measure alluded to by the noble Secretary should be adopted, he trusted that this distinction would be done away, and the present would be the last deviation from the English principle of taxation which Ireland would be condemned to experience. The noble lord concluded with stating, that he would not divide the Committee upon the subject; but he hoped that his suggestions would be considered.
The Report was ordered to be received tomorrow.