Lords Sitting of 25 November 1813

LOAN INTEREST BILL.
On the motion for the second reading of this Bill.
The Duke of Norfolksaid, that he had always considered the sinking fund as the chief anchor of our credit, and the only source from which we could look to the extinction of the national debt, which had been so prodigiously accumulated (he did not say unnecessarily) within the last 20 years. Many thought that the finance plan of last year, of which this Bill formed a part, trenched on the principle of the sinking fund. The noble lord of the Treasury however, who certainly had considerable experience, had stated his belief, that it did not trench on the principle of the sinking fund. All, therefore, agreed, that the principle was rigidly to be adhered to. But it ought to be kept in view, that there were many of great knowledge and experience, who thought that the finance measure of last year did trench on the sinking fund system, and, therefore, ministers ought to be cautious; for, however severe the taxes might be for the moment, the burthen ought to be borne rather than trench on the sinking fund. In future loans, too, the minister ought, even at the expence of temporary inconvenience to borrow in the higher funds; for the obvious reason, that the debt would be more easily discharged when they came to pay at par.
Lord Liverpoolsaid, that the sinking fund system, as proposed by Mr. Pitt in 1786, was one of the wisest measures that had ever been adopted by parliament. He knew there was a difference of opinion as to the nature of the plan of last year; but he, and others who thought with him, had contended, and contended successfully, that it was no violation of the principle of the sinking fund; and the state of the money market, as well as the opinions of those most conversant with it, afforded a strong presumption that they were in the right; the loan had been procured on more favourable terms than when no such measure was in contemplation, though he acknowledged that this was not a certain criterion, since the terms of the loan might be affected by other circumstances. In the mean time, it was a great advantage, that the country had been able to make the prodigious exertions which it had lately made without any addition to the taxes.
The Bill was then read a second time.