Lords Sitting of 7 January 1812

THE LORDS COMMISSIONERS' SPEECH.
The Sixth Session of the Fourth Parliament of the United Kingdom was opened this day by commission; the Commissioners were, the archbishop of Canterbury, the Lord Chancellor, marquis Wellesley, earl Camden, and the earl of West moreland. At three o'clock the Lords Commissioners took their seats upon the woolsack; and the Commons, pursuant to message, having attended, with their Speaker, at the bar, the Lord Chancellor informed them, that his Royal Highness the Prince Regent had been pleased to direct his Commission to certain lords, therein named, to open the session; which Commission they should hear read. The Commission was then read by the clerk at the table; after which, the Lord Chancellor read the following Speech to both Houses:
"My Lords and Gentlemen,
"We are commanded by his royal highness the Prince Regent, to express to you the deep sorrow which he feels in announcing to you the continuance of his Majesty's lamented indisposition, and the unhappy disappointment of those hopes of his Majesty's early recovery, which had been cherished by the dutiful affection of his family, and the loyal attachment of his people.
"The Prince Regent has directed copies of the last Reports of her Majesty the Queen's Council to be laid before you, and he is satisfied that you will adopt such measures as the present melancholy exigency may appear to require.
"In securing a suitable and ample provision for the support of his Majesty's royal dignity, and for the attendance upon his Majestys sacred person during his illness, the Prince Regent rests assured, that you will also bear in mind the indispensible duty of continuing to preserve for his Majesty the facility of resuming the personal exercise of his Royal Authority, in the happy event of his recovery, so earnestly desired by the wishes and the prayers of his family and his subjects.
"The Prince Regent directs us to signify to you the satisfaction with which his Royal Highness has observed, that the measures which have been pursued for the defence and security of the kingdom of Portugal, have proved completely effectual; and that on the several occasions in which the British or Portuguese troops had been engaged with the enemy, the reputation already acquired by them has been fully maintained.
"The successful and brilliant enterprise which terminated in the surprize, in Spanish Estremadura, of a French corps by a detachment of the allied army under lieutenant general Hill, is highly creditable to that distinguished officer, and to

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the troops under his command, and has contributed materially to obstruct the designs of the enemy in that part of the peninsula.
"The Prince Regent is assured, while you reflect with pride and satisfaction on the conduct of his Majesty's troops, and of the allies, in these various and important services, you will render justice to the consummate judgment and skill displayed by general lord viscount Wellington, in the direction of the Campaign. In Spain the spirit of the People remains unsubdued; and the system of warfare so peculiarly adapted to the actual condition of the Spanish nation, has been recently extended and improved, under the advantages which result from the operations of the Allied Armies on the frontier, and from the countenance and assistance of his Majesty's navy on the coast. Although the great exertions of the enemy have in some quarters been attended with success, his Royal Highness is persuaded, that you will admire the perseverance and gallantry manifested by the Spanish armies. Even in those provinces principally occupied by the French forces, new energy has arisen among the people; and the increase of difficulty and danger has produced more connected efforts of general resistance.
"The Prince Regent, in the name and on the behalf of his Majesty, commands us to express his confident hope that you will enable him to continue to afford the most effectual aid and assistance in support of the contest, which the brave nations of the peninsula still maintain with Such zeal and resolution.
"His Royal Highness commands us to express his congratulations on the success of the British Arms in the island of Java.
"The Prince Regent trusts that you will concur with his Royal Highness in approving the wisdom and ability with which this enterprize, as well as the capture of the islands of Bourbon and Mauritius, has been conducted under the immediate direction of the governor-general of India; and that you will applaud the decision, gallantly, and spirit conspicuously displayed in the, late operations of the brave army under the command of that distinguished officer lieutenant-general Sir Samuel Achmuty, so powerfully and ably supported by his Majesty's naval forces.
"By the completion of this system of operations, great additional security will have been given to the British commerce
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and possessions in the East Indies, and the colonial power of France will have been entirely extinguished.
"His Royal Highness thinks it expedient to recommend to your attention the propriety of providing such measures for the future government of the British possessions in India, as shall appear from experience, and upon mature deliberation, to be calculated to secure their internal prosperity, and to derive from those flourishing dominions the utmost degree of advantage to the commerce and revenue of the United Kingdom.
"We are commanded by the Prince Regent to acquaint you, that while his Royal Highness regrets that various important subjects of difference with the government of the United States of America still remain unadjusted, the difficulties which the affair of the Chesapeake frigate had occasioned have been finally removed, and we are directed to assure you, that in the further progress of the discussions with the United States, the Prince Regent will continue to employ such means of conciliation as may be consistent with the honour and dignity of his Majesty's crown, and with the due maintenance of the maritime and commercial rights and interests of the British empire.
"Gentlemen of the House of Commons,
"His Royal Highness has directed the estimates for the service of the current year to be laid before you. He trusts that you will furnish him with such supplies as may be necessary to enable him to continue the contest in which his Majesty is engaged with that spirit and exertion which will afford the best prospect of its successful termination.
"His Royal Highness commands us to recommend that you should resume the consideration of the state of the finances of Ireland, which you had commenced in the last session of Parliament. He has the satisfaction to inform you, that the improved receipt of the revenue of Ireland in the last, as compared with the preceding year, confirms the belief that the depression which that revenue had experienced is to be attributed to accidental and temporary causes.
"My Lords, and Gentlemen,
"The Prince Regent is satisfied that you entertain a just sense of the arduous duties which his Royal Highness has been called upon to fulfil, in consequence of his Majesty's continued indisposition.
"Under this severe calamity, his Royal

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Highness derives the greatest consolation from his reliance on your experienced wisdom, loyalty, and public spirit, to which in every difficulty he will resort, with a firm confidence, that, through your assistance and support, he shall be enabled, under the blessings of Divine Providence, successfully to discharge the important functions of the high trust reposed in him, and in the name and on the behalf of his beloved father and revered sovereign, to maintain unimpaired the prosperity and honour of the nation."
The Commons having withdrawn, the Lords Commissioners retired to unrobe. The duke of Devonshire, lord Calthorpe, and the bishop of Derry took the oaths and their seats. Their lordships then adjourned during pleasure. At five o'clock the House resumed. The Speech of the Lords Commissioners, in the name of the Prince Regent, was then read by the Lord Chancellor from the woolsack, and afterwards by the clerk at the table. Upon which,
The Earl of Shaftesburyrose to move an Address of Thanks. All their lordships, he observed, must participate in the feelings expressed in the Speech, relative to the continuance of the unfortunate indisposition of his Majesty, and in the desire intimated by his Royal Highness, that in the provision to be made for the support of his Majesty, every facility should be given to his Majesty for resuming the personal exercise of the royal authority, if it should please Providence to restore him. After the number of years which his Majesty had reigned over the country, and when it was considered that, during his long reign, numerous Blessings had been conferred upon the people, that when every other state had been involved in misery and calamity, this country had alone escaped; and that our thus remaining uninjured amidst the desolation that surrounded us, was chiefly to be attributed to the numerous virtues of his Majesty, he was convinced there could be but one feeling amongst their lordships upon the topics to which their attention was thus called by his royal highness the Prince Regent.—Upon the subject of Spain, there was much to congratulate the country in the unbroken spirit still displayed by the inhabitants of that kingdom, and in the various successes obtained against the enemy. If the House turned to Portugal, they would find ample sources of congratulation. In the course of last session,
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Massena, with the French army, had been driven out of the country. Portugal had been since completely defended from the enemy; and the campaign there had proved to the world and to the enemy, that it was not alone upon the sea, but on that element which he almost considered as his own, that British valour, led on by British generals, was equal to defeat him It was impossible to look on the gallant defence which the peninsula was making without admiration. Wherever the eye turned, that resistance appeared to be equally gallant, unwearied, and enterprising.—Looking to a more distant quarter, our conquests in the Indian Seas were highly satisfactory, and in the system to be adopted for the future regulation of our Indian Empire, he trusted that the two objects of promoting its internal prosperity and drawing from it the means of benefiting the commerce and resources of the mother country would be satisfactorily attained. Our late successes in the East, the result of so much valour in the armies, and so much wisdom in those who planned the enterprize, reflected praise on the government abroad, and also on his Majesty's ministers at home.—Respecting America, although there still unfortunately existed subjects of difference between this country and the United States, still it was highly satisfactory to be informed, that the affair of the Chesapeake had been happily terminated, and having the assurance of the Prince Regent that every measure of conciliation towards that country would be adopted that was consistent with the honour and the interests of this kingdom, there was every reason to hope that the whole of our differences would at length be amicably adjusted.—The concluding paragraph of the Speech brought him to the subject with which he began, and he trusted there would be no difference of opinion in adopting those measures which were necessary to the support of the Prince Regent in the exercise of the functions of the government; a trust which he had shewn himself so eminently qualified to fulfil.—The noble earl concluded with moving an Address to his royal highness the Prince Regent, which was, as usual, an echo of the Speech.
Lord Brownlowrose to second the Address. After the able manner in which it had been moved, it could scarcely be expected that he could add much to the remarks already made. He would, however, trouble the House with a few obser-

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vations. He fully coincided with the expressions of sorrow for the King's illness which the Address contained. It became us to bow to the visitations of Providence; but when we considered the long period and the happiness of his Majesty's reign over us, it could not be unsuitable to hope for his speedy restoration to the prayers of his people. Yet the House had a right, in this calamity, to feel great consolation from the tried virtues of the Prince Regent; who, when summoned to take the reins of government under such peculiarly afflicting circumstances, had proved himself so worthy of the reliance placed on him. The affairs of the peninsula were cheering, in spite of some successes which had been obtained by the enemy; the ardour of the people was more vigorous and apparent, their spirit burned more bright, and their resistance was stronger than ever. The consummate ability displayed by lord Wellington in the conduct of the campaign in Portugal could not be too highly praised; and the affairs of the peninsula gave good hope that Spain would yet shake off her invaders, and become a firm and powerful ally. By the same judicious system Portugal had been saved, and her armies had now risen into a formidable barrier against the enemy. It might not be too much to hope, that the example set by the brave people of the peninsula would produce its effect oil more distant nations. Our conquests in the Indian seas formed another subject of just congratulation, in which an army of the enemy had been destroyed or captured in the most gallant style. Respecting America, the adjustment of the affair of the Chesapeake was highly satisfactory, and after the assurance of the Prince Regent, he was convinced there would not be wanting on our part any means of conciliation consistent with the honour and the interests of the country. He hoped at the same time that we should firmly oppose any French views that might be entertained in the United States, and which could only lead, if not firmly opposed, to ruin and to misery. He trusted that, in the support of the Prince Regent, alluded to at the conclusion of the Speech, there would be an unanimous concurrence in those measures which were necessary for that purpose.
Lord Grenville, considering the critical circumstances of the times, and the present alarming state of the country, would have been happy if the Address proposed to the House had been so worded as to
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procure unanimity, on the present day, at least; yet, he did not feel surprised that such had not been the case, when he reflected, that the framers of the Speech were the very men who, by their obstinate blindness, had brought the country to the brink of ruin, and who, in the midst of the distresses they themselves had occasioned, still held the same flattering and fallacious language. On some points of the Address, indeed, there could be no difference of opinion. Every heart, for instance, must sympathise in the feelings expressed by his Royal Highness, at the awful visitation which still pressed on our beloved sovereign; and the disappointment of those hopes of recovery which had been held out, was equally felt by every one of his Majesty's subjects. The noble lord was sure also that every member of the House would concur in that part of the Address, which assured his Royal Highness of the most cordial support of the House in the discharge of the arduous duties he had taken upon himself. To the praises bestowed on our brave army and able commanders, no one could have any objection; and in that case, he himself was willing to contribute his weak tribute of thanks. But the question were a different aspect, when noble lords were to consider the advantages the country had received, or was likely to receive, from those meritorious exertions. In doing this, they would have many political and financial considerations to attend to. But the subject not being under discussion, he would not dwell longer upon it, but proceed to make a few observations on the other parts of the Address. It had been customary to consider the opening of the session as a day, on which a general outline of the state of the nation was submitted to the House, together with a concise view of those points which were likely to engage most of their attention during the session. This custom the noble lord considered as being perfectly parliamentary; for such outline, when confined within due bounds, gave their lordships a clear and distinct view of the grounds on which they were to act, of the necessities they bad to provide for, and of the pledge which was required from them. But were the noble lord, in the present instance, to undertake pointing to the House the various branches of arduous duty which were likely to fall to their lot, he was sure he should sink under the task. The House was no longer called

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upon to provide for the prosperity, but for the very safety, nay, existence of the country. The various subjects which called urgently for their most serious attention, were so numerous, so important, and so weighty, that the labour would prove Herculean, and not to be disposed of in a single night's debate. The measures absolutely necessary in such a state of things, had been frequently alluded to in that House, and were familiar to most of the noble lords. His lordship would not then advert to them, but repeat his observation, that no outline of intended measures, no view of future proceedings, had been submitted to their lordships, and yet they were called upon to pledge themselves for the continuance of a system which had brought the country to the present alarming situation. He would give no such a pledge. He would not indeed move an amendment to the Address; but be would protest most solemnly against giving such a pledge. He would protest against a continuance of those measures which had brought such calamities on the country; calamities so real and so momentous, that they must soon press themselves with irresistible force on their lordships' attention, whether or not they were willing to give them the consideration they deserved. People might chuse to close their eyes, but the force of truth must dispel the wilful blindness; they might chuse to shut their ears, but the voice of a suffering nation must sooner or later be heard. The noble lord said he still retained his objections to every part of the system he had so often condemned; he still deprecated that wanton waste of money, and of all the public resources, when it was more necessary than ever to husband them with the most provident care. He still objected to those commercial measures, which were pompously announced as the roost formidable weapon against the enemy, and which had recoiled on our commerce-and manufactures. He still retained his objections to a system of finance, which had forced a debased coin on the people, and had spread bankruptcy and rain throughout the land. But, above all, he protested tenfold against the system obstinately pursued in Ireland, where the strong arm of power had attempted to stifle the dutiful complaints of the people. And here the noble lord begged of their lordships to consider the portentous way in which the state of Ireland had been alluded to in the Speech. Their lord-
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ships' attention was not directed to the oppressions under which the Irish laboured, nor to the grievances from which they sought relief: no, they were solely to look to the revenue drawn from a people so situated. His lordship could not help admiring the statesman, who bad penned that part of the Speech, and who, while he was holding up that paltry consideration to the attention of the House, seemed to have forgotten, that the only way to make revenue permanently productive, was to make the people happy, and to lend a willing ear to their just complaints. Things had, however, come to such a crisis in Ireland, that their lordships must have to decide on the grand question, during the present session. They could no longer hear of procrastination, of irresolution, or of further considerations. They must inevitably decide, during the present session, whether Ireland was to be treated as a sister kingdom; whether the Irish were to be considered as British subjects; and whether such a large proportion of the population of these realms were to be admitted within the pale of the constitution. The consequence of a refusal, his lordship would not anticipate, nor should he, perhaps, have dwelt on that topic, in the present instance, were it not, that, in a very few days, and, probably, in the course of the week, the subject would be brought distinctly and separately before their lordships. He was glad of the opportunity of giving that notice to noble lords, and hoped it would prove a sufficient apology for having introduced the subject that day.
The Earl of Liverpoolwished as much for unanimity on the present occasion, as the noble baron who had just sat down; but to that wish he could not sacrifice a public principle. The noble baron had justly said, that on the day of the opening of the session, a general outline of the state of the nation was usually laid before the House, but it had never been deemed necessary to introduce into that outline, all the topics which might afterwards demand their lordships' attention. The details, for instance, on foreign connections, were invariably reserved for future opportunities; and he could not think of altering that established and approved line of conduct for the sake of unanimity. The present, his lordship was convinced, was not a fit day to dwell on such or any other details; but the noble baron had entered a general protest against the whole of the

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system pursued by the present ministers, and on that ground, he was ready to meet him the more willingly, as that system and those measures so condemned, bad stood the test of experience. Many opportunities would undoubtedly occur of canvassing the merits of their different opinions; but, as the noble baron had been heard in support of his, it would not be, perhaps, too much to presume, that the same indulgence might be allowed to him. He was firmly convinced that the system the noble baron had so much condemned, was the only one that had saved, or could have saved this country: to the continuance of that system only, Europe could look for deliverance, and England for permanent safety; in short, by the merits of that system his lordship and his colleagues were determined to stand or fall. As to the affairs of Ireland, the noble lord said he had given to that subject all the attention it deserved, with due consideration, as to the justice and expediency of the case, and he still persisted in his former opinion. The noble baron had, however, given notice that the matter would shortly be brought before the House, a notice rather unusual, when the Speech contained no allusion to the subject. He could not, however, let the noble baron's remarks pass without saying, that he was fully prepared, whenever the day should come, to defend his conduct, and that of his colleagues, as well as the conduct of a noble duke in Ireland, and that of his colleagues also. But he would repeat, that he should reserve his arguments for a day, when the subject should come before the House, unmixed with any other extraneous matter. As to the Address itself, his lordship conceived, that it contained nothing which could prevent any member of the House to concur in assuring his royal highness the Prince Regent, that they were ready to lend him all the assistance in their power, in the discharge of the arduous duties which had devolved upon him.
Earl Greysaid, that he fully concurred in the propriety of avoiding any lengthened discussion upon the various important topics which were suggested by hearing the Speech which had been read from the woolsack. He entirely approved of the policy pursued by his noble friend in confining himself, on the present occasion, to the delivering of his protest against any expression of his opinions being understood upon points in which it was impos-
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sible for him to concur: thinking also, that most of the topics were of such importance, as to require a separate and particular discussion. Concurring generally in the address which was proposed, he could not refrain from joining his noble friend: he should feel unhappy if he departed from that House without declaring, that he retained all the opinions he had before held, on subjects of great magnitude; opinions confirmed by experience and the evidence of facts,—opinions which he should be ready to maintain and defend, on future opportunities of discussing them. Whether the noble secretary of state chose to allude to the state of affairs with America, on which he had shewn much caution, and even silence, and ventured to call our transactions in that quarter, a verification of the assertion that the system of the government had contributed to the security, prosperity, and honour of the country; or whether he intended to refer to the system of our measures in the peninsula, he pledged himself that he should be ready to meet him, and to contend, that whatever might be said to have been done, bad not been done to the promotion of the safety and honour of the country; and that the general system adopted had been, in fact, the source of almost all oar present and impending calamities. On the important concerns of the state of Ireland, he must deeply regret, that, from the manner of mentioning it by the noble lord, he could derive no hope that ministers had seen the impolicy of their conduct; or that they would adopt—he would not say, merely wise and liberal measures, but some measures more consistent with justice, and with the common rights of mankind. No hope could he derive of any useful measure on that subject, so essential to the safety of the country; but, on the contrary, ministers seemed determined to persevere in what they considered to be the wisdom and expediency of adhering to their system for the future. He thought the House bound immediately to take into their consideration the treatment of the people of Ireland, not only with a view to what had already passed, but with a prospective view, for the adoption of such timely and just measures as might avert the ruin of the country. Government, however, he must repeat, appeared, for any thing be had heard to the contrary, to be resolved on pursuing a system which would risk the destruction of the public safety. He

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was happy to learn that a proposition on this subject would speedily be brought before their lordships, which would bring all its important relations under review. With these observations he could be content to reserve himself for future opportunities, but for one singular assertion of the noble lord, that he trusted that the House, and the public, would concur in supporting the government of the Prince Regent, in pursuance of the sentiments contained in the address. Was it to be conceived, that in opposing measures of administration which he thought were fraught with danger and ruin, he was withholding that support which was necessary to the Prince Regent in his conduct of the government of this kingdom? No! Re the ministers whom they might, he would give them his support in what was just and necessary for the conduct of the government; but, if impolitic, unjust, and ruinous measures were proposed or acted upon, his duty to that House, to the public, and to the Prince Regent himself, would certainly induce him to raise his voice as loudly as he could against them. He said this more especially, because it was not possible for him, though he did not oppose the present address, to recede from the opinions which he had previously delivered on many subjects of the greatest and most essential interest to the nation.
The Earl of Darnleyadverted to the state of Ireland, and the question relative to the Catholics. There was now an opportunity to do what would be beneficial with a good grace. He thought that the late exemplary conduct of the Catholics of Ireland, under circumstances of great irritation, ought to make its due impression on their lordships' minds. He recommended them to beware, lest they might lose the only opportunity that might be afforded them.
The Duke of Norfolkadverted to what had been said respecting the avoidance of topics not mentioned in the speech. He had been in parliament thirty years, and he knew that it was a parliamentary practice to submit amendments, not merely on points of the speech, but on such as were omitted in it. It might be very proper and parliamentary to move an amendment to the Address, stating that the House would take immediately into its consideration the state of Ireland, in order to bring forward such measures as might be necessary and useful for that country, and the kingdom at large. He did not mean,
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that certain recent transactions in Ireland should be the subject of such an enquiry, considering them not as of the immediate essence of the question, but rather as measures of police and regulation, which it was not necessary for government to bring forward, nor for parliament at present to take up; particularly as such matters were in the course of coming into the courts of law, to be decided there by judges and juries. His grace did not mean to animadvert upon what was a pending question of law. But the noble secretary of state had gone a little farther. He had, if he understood him rightly, intimated, that he would raise his voice from one end of the land to the other, in support of the sentiments in the Address to the Prince Regent, pledging them to support his government. As he had defended the whole system of the ministry, his grace wished to know what this sort of call meant. Was it a call similar to that which was excited in the country some time ago, when the present ministry came into power? They might call 'vasty spirits from the deep,' but he hoped they would not come up: if they did come, the call would only end in destruction.
The Earl of Liverpoolsaid, that he had not objected to the propriety of moving an amendment on points omitted. The noble duke had misunderstood him. When he had spoken of the people throughout the country, he had reference to the general support by the people, of the government of the Prince Regent, and the safety and honour of the country.
Lord Grenvillesaid, that the explanation of the noble lord called upon him to say a few words more, and to ask whether the noble lord thought it was necessary for him to call on the people throughout the country to support the government of the Prince Regent. He would assert, that it was not. For himself, he had expressed his concurrence in the desire of parliament to support the Prince Regent in the discharge of the awful duties of the high station which had been cast upon him: but an insinuation seemed to have been conveyed, which the circumstances neither merited nor excused.
The Earl of Liverpoolintended no insinuation. Had he supposed that there were persons who were not disposed to support the government of the Prince Regent, in what he believed to be for the safety and honour of the country, he should not have spoken in the way of insinuation. In

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what he said, which was alluded to by the noble baron, he was referring to the foreign policy of this country. It was in that view of the subject he stated, that he believed ministers had the support of the great majority of the country from one end to the other.
The Address was then agreed to, nem. dis.

SPAIN AND HER COLONIES.
Lord Hollandwished to ask the noble marquis opposite, whether any progress had been made in the mediation offered between the government of Spain and her colonies in South America; and whether it was the intention of ministers to give any information on such progress? He concurred with the noble lord's views on that subject, as they appeared to him. He only wished, as an individual, to be assured that the real views were what he conceived them to be. A year and a half had elapsed since the Caraccas rose in rebellion, and three months since the mediation was agreed upon. If his view of the proffered mediation was correct, for the sake of humanity, it became necessary to enforce it directly, and yet a year and a half had elapsed without any progress being made, or the policy of ministers being known.
Marquis Wellesleysaid it was a case requiring great care, attention, and circumspection. It was necessary to avoid in-flaming animosities, fomenting jealousies, and exciting passions, that mixed in this business. The difficulties, therefore, which stood in the way, required a cautious procedure. Through the whole of the business, all the ministers were of opinion it was better to preserve the integrity of the Spanish colonies, as a support against the common enemy, than seek any temporary advantage that might be derived from their present state in relation to the mother country. He had every hope, that ultimately his wishes would be crowned with success, but whatever might be the result, he was confident that nothing would be done to excite jealousy or suspicion. At present, be hoped the noble lord would not seek further information.
Lord Hollandsaid this amounted to no information at all. Care had been taken to name a commission; but three months had elapsed, and care had been taken not to send it away. He wished to know what progress had been made in the mediation?
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It was a curious mediation to let two friends fight first, and after they had given each other black eyes and bloody noses, then to interfere.
Marquis Wellesleydid not mean to say that no steps had been taken. The truth was, there had been an early interference, but it had not led to the removal of the difficulties which prevented the mediation from being proceeded in. It was necessary to ascertain previously, that both parties would agree to the mediation, and be likely to acquiesce in what it might be in contemplation to recommend. Such progress had therefore been made, as the nature of the case would admit; and had he proceeded with more promptitude and expedition, it might have inflamed passions and raised difficulties, that might defeat the object in view.
Lord Hollandprofessed himself not satisfied with this answer, and accordingly gave notice of his intention to move for papers on the subject.