Lords Sitting of 22 May 1811

MR. PALMER'S CLAIMS.
The Earl of Radnorcalled the attention of the House to the votes of the House of Commons of last night, by which it appeared, that an Address had been voted to the Prince Regent, praying his Royal Highness to order the sum of 54,000 l. to be paid to Mr. Palmer. He wished particularly to call the attention of their lordships to this circumstance, they having, on a former occasion, decided against the claim of Mr. Palmer.
The Earl of Lauderdaleobserved, that the proceeding alluded to by the noble earl, was inconsistent with the dignity and independence of that House as a separate branch of the legislature, namely, the voting, by address, of a considerable sum of money to an individual in a way in which their lordships could not regularly exercise their controuling or separate power as an independent branch-There were not many instances of proceedings of this kind. The last within his recollection was when the House of Com-

269
mons, in a fit of enthusiasm towards a great and illustrious character in this country, voted the payment of his debts. That was a case of a very different nature. There, the House had not given any previous opinions. In the present instance, the Commons knew the decision of the House upon the subject, and that decision was, in the greater part, upon evidence communicated to their lordships by the Commons. It was a question of right upon which the House (the supreme court of Judicature) had decided. Let their lordships consider in what a situation they were placed. He could not devise a more flagrant case. The claims of Mr. Palmer had no just foundation; and the bringing forward again the subject so many years after the death of Mr. Pitt, who treated with that gentleman on the part of the public, was at least suspicious. It Was what he could net have expected, and be regarded the proceeding as most unjust.
The Earl of Moiraentertained a very different sentiment from his noble friend, as to the case of Mr. Palmer. The contemplation of no case whatever, gave him so much pain as that, as he thought the principles of justice were far departed from. The procedure in that House upon that occasion was what he highly disapproved. Ought that House to have proceeded upon evidence stated before the Commons? He retained his former sentiments as to the justice of Mr. Palmer's Claims, and never could he hear the subject mentioned without expressing those sentiments. This however, was a point distinct from that first touched upon by his noble friend, a point upon which he would, at present, offer no opinion.
The Earl of Harrowbyexpressed his satisfaction that the late proceeding of the Commons had been so properly noticed in that House, and on the earliest possible opportunity. With reference, however, to his own convictions upon the subject, and the deliberate decision of the House upon it, he could not possibly hear what fell from the noble earl who spoke last, without entering his protest against it. Their lordships had decided, after the most full and deliberate consideration of the subject, not only upon evidence transmitted by the House of Commons, but on further and original evidence laid before their lordships. After what had taken place, he, for one, thought the subject would never be brought forward again.
270
He could not avoid expressing his surprise at hearing from the noble earl, the comparison he had made between the vote of compensation to Mr. Palmer, and the vote for the payment of the debts of Mr. Pitt. In the last case it was not what had been termed fancy or generosity; it was a testimony due to the great public services rendered. It was the tribute of a grateful country to the greatest man that country had ever produced, from that country which he had saved. The vote for Mr. Palmer went to give a recompence, where punishment was deserved.
The Earl of Lauderdalerose to explain. He had not used words bearing the construction the noble earl had put upon them. Whatever difference of opinion he entertained from the noble earl respecting the public character and merits of the noble earl's illustrious and great friend, he never brought that grant into comparison, far less into a precedent, with respect to the case of Mr. Palmer; and that must be the more evident to the noble earl, who was entirely in possession of his sentiments on the latter ease.
The Lord Chancellorobserved, that he was one of the majority who had voted against Mr. Palmer's claims; and, in giving that vote, he considered the case, both as it purported to be a claim in justice and a claim in equity.—In both views of it, to him it appeared unfounded; and that opinion he delivered, after giving it as much attention and consideration as if he had pronounced that opinion in a court of justice.
The Duke of Norfolkasked if any notice had been given by the noble earl of his intention to bring Mr. Palmer's case before their lordships that evening? If not, he did not think it fair to enter upon the discussion in so thin a House. Besides, their lordships would do well to consider in what difficulties they might involve themselves by objecting to the vote.
The Earl of Radnorconfessed he had given no notice of his intention to mention the circumstance to the House, but had brought it under their consideration merely from what he conceived to be his duty. Neither had he any intention of renewing the question, but should leave it to any noble lord whom it might please to take it up.
After a few words in explanation from the Lord Chancellor and the earl of Lauderdale, the subject was cropped without further notice.