HL Deb 22 February 1811 vol 19 cc1-18
The Marquis of Lansdowne

rose for the purpose of calling their lordships' attention to the documents, which lay upon the table, and had been produced in consequence of a motion made on a former day by his noble friend (the earl of Moira,) whose absence he regretted upon this occasion. The documents which had been produced as a ground for issuing the Circular Letter to the sheriffs and chief magistrates of the principal towns throughout Ireland,*

* The following is a copy of the said Circular:

CIRCULAR LETTER, written by the command of his grace the Lord Lieutenant to the several Sheriffs and Chief Magistrates of the principal Towns throughout Ireland.

"Sir:—It being reported, that the Roman Catholics in the county of are to be called together, or have been called together, to nominate or appoint persons as representatives, delegates or managers, to act on their behalf as members of an unlawful Asssembly, sitting in Dublin, and calling itself "The Catholic Committee," you are required, in pursuance of the provisions of an Act of the 33rd of the king, chap. 29, to cause to be arrested, and to commit to prison (unless bail shall be given), all persons within your jurisdiction,

prohibiting the meetings of the Catholics, were now before them: but could their lordships be satisfied with the explanation of the conduct of the government of Ireland? When his noble friend had brought the subject some days since under their lordships' consideration, and had asked for information respecting the grounds and motives, upon which the government of Ireland had acted, on having recourse to so harsh, so violent, and so intemperate a measure, what was the answer which had then been returned? Why, that the order for putting in force the convention bill in Ireland, did not emanate from the Prince Regent, did not emanate from the British government, but had actually emanated

who shall be guilty of giving or having given, or of publishing or having published, or of causing or having caused to be given or published any written or other notice of the election and appointment, in any manner, of such representive, delegate, or manager, as aforesaid; or of attending, voting, or acting, or of having attended, voted, or acted, in any manner, in the choice or appointment of such representative, delegate, or manager. And you are to communicate these directions, as far as lies in your power, forthwith, to the several magistrates of the said county of

"N. B. Sheriffs are to act under the warrant of magistrates, in cases where the crime has been committed.

"By command of his grace, the Lord Lieutenant—(Signed) W. W. POLE."

from the Irish government, and that under circumstances which, in the minds of ministers, seemed to afford complete satisfaction, and fully to justify the propriety of the measure which had thus suddenly and unexpectedly been taken. It had even been acknowledged by ministers that they knew nothing of the measure nor of the necessity that led to it, until the accounts had been received from Ireland, of the measure having been actually put in force, and yet after this denial of knowing any thing of the matter, and after justifying the Irish government on the plea of the necessity of the case and the urgency of the occasion, which called for a measure of such harshness, what information had they yet laid before the House in explanation of such conduct, but a letter dated the 1st of January, purporting to be written by Mr. Edward Hay, a person who styled himself Secretary of the Catholic Committee in Dublin?* Upon the appearance

* COPY of a printed Letter from Edward Hay, styling himself "Secretary to the General Committee of the Catholics in Ireland, sitting in Dublin," to the Catholics in the different Counties throughout Ireland:—Transmitted by His Grace the Lord Lieutenant, on the 12th February, 1811, and received on the 14th instant.

"Sir;—I am directed by the General Committee of the Catholics of Ireland, to solicit your particular attention on the present occasion.

"The Committee being entrusted with the petition of the Catholic body, feel it incumbent on them to state to you, their conviction of the imperative necessity of an increase of their numbers, so that there may be managers of the petition connected with every part of Ireland. It is highly desirable, that the Committee should become the depository of the collective wisdom of the Catholic body; that it should be able to ascertain, in order to obey, the wishes, and clearly understand the wants, of all their Catholic fellow subjects.

"This is the more requisite at the present moment when there appears to be so near a prospect of complete emancipation; and the Committee are convinced, that their emancipation can now be retarded, only by criminal apathy or neglect amongst the Catholics themselves.

"They beg leave to suggest to you, the propriety of appointing tea managers

of that Letter, which they now conceived to contain cause of such alarm, and matter of such peril, did they immediately adopt any measure to allay that alarm, or prevent that danger? No such thing. It was only on the 12th of February, 43 days subsequent to the writing of that Letter, that any notice seems to have been taken of it. Yet that Letter of Mr. Hay, the secretary of the Irish Catholic Committee, was the only document yet before the House, and the only ground adduced to justify the issuing of the letter addressed by Mr. Pole, Secretary to the Irish government, to the magistrates and sheriffs of the different counties in Ireland. What must their lordships think of such a justification of such a measure, and of the period of time allowed to elapse between the publication of Mr. Hay's Letter and the issuing of Mr. Pole's Circular to which it was said to have given rise? Were, then, the noble lords opposite, in possession of

of the petition in your county. There are now survivors of the persons who were delegates in the year 1793: these persons are already constituent members of the Committee; and as such, managers of the petition; so that you have to appoint only additional managers.

"The Committee desire to add, that by the law, as it now stands, no species of delegation or representation can be suffered to take place; nor can any person, without a gross violation of the law, be a representative or delegate, or act under any name as a representative or delegate. Engaged, as we are, in a struggle for legal and constitutional rights, it is our duty, as well as our inclination and decided determination, not to violate the spirit, nor even the letter of the law. It is, at the same time, to be observed, that the law to which we allude, does not interfere with the subject's undoubted right to petition parliament; nor of course with the only method by which so large a body as the Catholics of Ireland could concur in forwarding a petition; namely, by leaving the management of it in the hands of a few persons, who deserve and possess their confidence.

"And the Committee cannot refrain, on this occasion, from calling to your recollection the words of that celebrated champion of loyalty and religion, Edmund Burke, relative to the Irish Catholics: 'Your enemies are embodied, what becomes of you if you are only individuals?'

no better justification of the conduct of the Irish government for putting in force an act of which, whatever might be supposed to be its necessity, when it was first deemed proper and expedient to adopt it, had been allowed to lie dormant for at least 13 years? During that interval, that law appeared to have been violated in many instances, particularly by the meeting of what was called the Orange Lodge, but no alarm seemed to be felt at these instances of its violation, till 43 days after the publication of Mr. Hay's letter, when it was judged expedient to revise and put that odious law in force against the Catholics. The great and leading objection to this act of the Irish government, and which was so ably stated by his noble friend (the earl of Moira) on a former day, was that which applied to the mode and the time in which it was put in execution. The statute had, as he before stated, laid dormant for more than 13 years; meetings of the Roman Catholics had regularly been held; the government had on every occasion been privy to those meetings so held, and inasmuch as they permitted them, the Catholics were naturally led to believe and expect they they received their sanction and acquiescence. Far should it be from him to countenance and support what would be dangerous to the constitution: if any set of men should form themselves into a convention, which had for its object the violation of the law, by giving to themselves a permanent existence, he would be one of the first to set his face against the existence of any such assembly, because their existence would be incompatible with that of the constitution. But where was this spirit to be discovered in the Catholics of Ireland; where was such an intention made manifest? The noble secretary indeed, had said on a former occasion, when he wished the Letter

"The Committee does not presume to interfere with the mode in which you shall think fit to nominate those managers of the petition; save that it must not be by any election or appointment to represent any person or persons, or any district or place whatsoever. They moreover beg leave to suggest the propriety of expedition; and request that you will have the goodness to reply to this letter, and to state your sentiments on this subject, adding, if it shall so please you, the names of persons, whom you conceive most fit to manage the petition in your county.

of the Secretary of the Catholics to be annexed to that of the Secretary of State for Ireland, that it would be found that the Catholics meditated an intentional and systematic violation of the laws of their country. He now called upon that noble secretary to furnish any document which could give them that information. The Letter on the table did not contain one paragraph which could lead to such a conclusion; but breathed throughout a spirit of respect and submission to the laws of their country; the observance of which it strongly inculcated in those, to whom it was addressed. No ground, then, was shewn for this severe measure to a whole body of subjects respectable on every account; a measure, which their loyalty and general conduct rendered wholly unnecessary, and which could not be in Unison with the known sentiments and feelings of the illustrious person who had taken upon him the arduous task of exercising the royal authority. The calling this dormant statute, therefore, into force after so many meetings of a similar description had been permitted, was peculiarly unbecoming, not only from the time and the manner in which it was done, but from the inconsiderate haste and rashness with which it was attended. Though 43 days had been suffered to elapse without any notice being taken of Mr. Hay's letter, yet the urgency of the occasion and the necessity of the measure became suddenly so great that time was not given to consult with the government of England on its propriety, or even to take the pleasure of the Prince Regent respecting it, who was just then taking upon himself the reins of government. What were the feelings and opinions of his Royal Highness, on this question, there could not be much doubt; nor could his disposition in favour of the Catholics of Ireland be well called in

"In appointing those managers, the committee respectfully solicit your particular attention to the many advantages to be derived from naming managers, whose avocations require, or leisure permits their permanent or occasional residence in Dublin, where the ultimate arrangements, as to the petition, can best be made. I have further to observe to you, that all the noble lords who constitute the Catholic peerage, are already managers of the petition. I have the honour to be, your, &c. (Signed)—EDWARD HAY, Sec."

Dublin, No. 4, Capel Street, Jan. 1, 1811.

question. He should ground nothing, however, on what were the well known or supposed opinions of his Royal Highness. Sure he was that, on ail occasions his Royal Highness would feel that the hand of government should be firm and energetic, particularly under all the circumstances of the present moment; but his Royal Highness would also never forget, that firmness did not consist in rashness, intemperance, and violence; and under what other colour could the measure which had been so unadvisedly taken in Ireland be fairly considered? The noble Secretary of State had indeed affirmed, that there was discovered among the Catholics of Ireland a deliberate, systematic intention of violating the law. Had the noble earl adduced any information upon which to ground such a charge, he would be among the first to acknowledge the propriety of the steps that had been taken. But the only information yet before their lordships to warrant the assertions of the noble earl, and justify the conduct of the Irish Government, consisted in the single letter then on their lordships' table. Could such information justify such a measure, especially under all the circumstances of the moment, when it was put in force? He was convinced it could not. He should therefore move for the production of other papers, by which further and more satisfactory light might be thrown upon the business. If the noble earl should rest his objection to his motion, on the impropriety of giving publicity to such information, he would be satisfied with having it referred to a secret committee; but if that proposal did not meet the noble earl's approbation, he should move, "That an humble Address be presented to his royal highness the Prince Regent, praying that he would be graciously pleased to give directions that there be laid before the House copies or extracts of all dispatches addressed to, or received from his excellency the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, respecting the Circular Letter addressed by Mr. Secretary Pole to the Sheriffs and Magistrates of Ireland."

The Earl of Liverpool

felt it to be his duty to oppose the present motion, because no sufficient grounds bad been laid for agreeing to it; and because the information already on the table was sufficient to answer the object of the motion made by a noble lord the oilier night. That noble lord's motion was confined to the production of a single document, and the letter of Mr. Hay was produced in consequence of a motion of his own. He felt much difficulty at the present moment in giving farther information: but he had given their lord" ships a positive record, which proved the deliberate attempt at the violation of law, and was inconsistent with a due regard to the public tranquillity. He had been mistaken when it was supposed to have been, said by him, that the body of the Catholics meditated a systematic violation. He meant no such thing against that numerous and respectable body; and he was sure that the measures intended to be prevented, were as much against the sense of the most respectable part of the body of the Catholics, as they were against that of the Protestants, and that they deprecated the adoption of them equally. He believed, in his conscience, that the majority of the Catholic body were loyal and well affected to the connection with England; and that they did not desire to be represented in the way proposed by a few of their number. As to the case of the present committee sitting in Dublin, being also a violation of the law, he would not enter into the question, whether it had been wise or not, to allow that body to continue their sitting as they had hitherto done; but whether this were wise or unwise, he could not be persuaded, that it would have been wise to overlook the attempt to carry such a meeting to the great and undefined extent proposed, and to suffer it to assume, as it necessarily would, an intirely new character. Were his opinions decidedly favourable to the total removal of the remaining disabilities to which the Catholics were subject, he should still entertain his present sentiments on this particular subject. Indeed, there was no greater grievance for the Catholics, than the existence of such a body professing to be the representatives of all the Catholics. There had been no attempt whatever intended or made to prevent the right of petitioning, according to the forms of the constitution: but the very usage of their lordships' House forbad the receiving of petitions except from individuals subscribing for themselves, or from bodies, which had a legal, corporate existence. An instance of this sort had even recently, occurred in the case of a petition professing to come from the Lord Mayor and the Livery of the city of London. The petitions intended to be presented by the Catholics had been already prepared and agreed to, and therefore There was no ground for meeting on that subject. Considerable inconveniencies might accrue from the production of farther papers. He was not aware that any farther information was at all necessary. The letter on the table shewed clearly the intention to violate the laws, and expose to danger the public tranquillity.

Earl Grosvenor

considered it right to keep clear altogether of the merits of the question on which these proceedings had occurred, and thought the only question before them was, whether the strong steps taken by the Irish government could be justified. It was certainly possible that they might; but there was nothing on their table to prove it, and they could not come to such a conclusion without the advantage of farther and more particular information. Notwithstanding the recent assertions of the friends of ministers, and the statements so often made in some of the public prints, supposed to speak the sentiments of government, that Ireland was in a state of perfect tranquillity, the publication of this strong and irritating letter shewed that Ireland was very far from being in such a situation. After a lapse of 18 years, he should have considered the Convention Act, passed at a disturbed period, as obsolete. At that time, acts of considerable strictness were passed in this country, and which he believed were justified by circumstances: yet they were subsequently done away here, and he should think that the same step should have taken place in Ireland. It was curious to learn that ministers should have no knowledge of the subject, when they must have known that the Letter of Mr. Hay had been written for five weeks. It was curious that Mr. Pole left this country only on the 3d of February, and was not instructed in any respect on this point; but immediately on arriving in Ireland, published this letter without any communication with the government here. He might suppose they thought, that if a communication had been made here, the Prince Regent might have deemed a different course more proper to pursue. He saw no ground in the proposed meeting to excite additional alarm, except as to the addition to the numbers of the meeting. That was not great, compared with the numbers of the Catholics, and was not a sufficient ground, taken alone. It must therefore be coupled with circumstances which were not to be disclosed to them. Whether the Irish Government were right or not in such a measure, they appeared wrong in not making a communication to the government here, previously. The noble Secretary of State could not, he thought, have any objection to give information to a Secret Committee.

Lord Grenville

could not but offer a few observations on the present occasion. The noble Secretary of State, who had risen to answer the speech of his noble friend, did any thing but answer the more prominent points of that speech; and, indeed, in avoiding to do so, he acted wisely. His noble friend pressed for an explanation of the reasons which induced the Irish government so long to have delayed the putting in force of the Convention Act, if the Letter from the secretary of the Catholic Committee was really the cause of their resorting to a measure so rash and intemperate. He, however, pressed in vain for that explanation. It was therefore natural to conclude, that some other grounds existed in justification of such a measure; and a knowledge of those grounds it was the object of his noble friend's motion to obtain. In expressing his decided disapprobation of this rash and intemperate proceeding, he desired not to be considered as prepared or disposed to vindicate the cause of any description of persons, who meant to act in an illegal manner. On the contrary, he would always do his utmost to ensure obedience to the law: and if it could be shewn that this measure was the only, or the ready and natural mode of prevention of an unlawful meeting, he should agree to it. If the Catholics had any intention of establishing a permanent convention to represent them, he should be sensible of the dangers of such an attempt, and would be the first to resist it. But of this there was no proof: as little was there any proof of any kind effort on the part of the Irish government to admonish them of the dangers of such an attempt, to make allowances for the irritation they must feel, at seeing themselves excluded from an equal participation of the privileges enjoyed by their Protestant fellow subjects; an exclusion which must naturally prove so galling to freemen. Such forbearance and such admonition, would have only been the act of a mild, beneficent, and paternal government: but such a disposition was not to be expected from the noble lords opposite; though they might well suppose it to be the disposition of the illustrious person who was at the moment preparing to assume the direction of government. Such an opportunity was not to be afforded to that illustrious person. So far as he was yet informed, he could see no ground whatever for the extraordinary conduct of the Irish government. The noble Secretary, indeed, contended, that it was to be found in the Letter upon their lordships' table from Mr. Hay, the secretary to the Catholic Committee, But it did not appear in the face of this Letter to whom it was addressed or sent. Whom did the noble earl mean to say it was sent to? To all the Catholics of Ireland? Or to what particular persons? Would he profess ignorance on that head? If ignorant, in what a light did the government stand before their lordships and the country? It was of much importance to know who they were, to whom this letter were sent; for he would admit, that if so large a meeting were assembled by delegation, contrary to law, and for undefined purposes, it would be dangerous to the public peace. There was nothing satisfactory upon this subject, in the Letter. The Catholics seemed to think that they were not violating the laws; and therefore the ministers were bound in justice to lay the grounds before parliament, and the names or descriptions of those to whom the letter was sent. There were other points of yet higher importance. They were to judge of the time, the temper, and the tone of this Letter of the Irish Secretary; and above all of the time. Their recent unfortunate debates on the Regency Question seemed to have put them out of all thoughts of such a thing as a government. Had the lord lieutenant's secretary the power to do this act without consulting the King's commands, or those of the illustrious person who exercised his authority? The Letter could not be defended in any way but on an indispensable urgency, unless the ministers were prepared to maintain that the lord lieutenant's secretary was actually the regent of Ireland. Let their lordships look at the nature of the government of Ireland. There were many of them who must know the practice of that government. There ought to be some of them then opposite to him. Would they have done this without taking the King's commands? Such was the constitution of that subordinate government, that they could do no more without consultation with the government here, than the ministers here could without the authority of the Prince Regent. Such was the ordinary mode of business, and this course was surety particularly necessary to be attended to now. What right had they to suppose that the Prince Regent would approve of the act. They had but one answer to make, and that was, that the matter pressed upon them so suddenly as to leave no time for communication. He had anticipated such an answer: but the fact turned out, that the Irish Catholics Secretary's Letter was dated January the 1st. In order to enable their lordships to judge, let them say how the interval of 43 days had been employed. He would concede much to them, if they could shew that it was employed in temperate remonstrances, such as became a mild and benignant government to the feelings of men smarting under a peculiar situation. A wise government would have used every conciliatory method; and if that had failed, though even then he should have condemned any irritating tone which might have been used by an offended government, yet necessity might have arisen for resorting to decisive steps. At present, how the time was employed, he was utterly ignorant. There was no necessity whatever for this step without the Regent's consent. The great point was, not whether the law should be enforced, but whether the mode was such as was due to the dignity of the Prince Regent, to the peace of Ireland, and the established forms of the government. There was a general idea now entertained, and it was among the worst signs of the times, that there was a disposition to neglect all forms. The constitution could not be preserved but by attention to forms. He was old-fashioned enough to admire our forms. This transaction was against all forms, as the old mode would have been by proclamation of the lord lieutenant in council. As there was yet no information before their lordships of the grounds upon which the conduct of the Irish government could be justified, he should give his most cordial support to the motion of his noble friend.

The Earl of Ross

thought it probable that the Irish government had resorted to measures of conciliation before issuing the circular Letter. The Letter of Mr. Hay, was, it was true, dated the first of January; but it did not appear that it was circulated on that day; it was probable that it was not circulated for some days afterwards, and then, perhaps, privately, so that some time would elapse before government would be apprised of it. It should also be borne in mind, that at the meeting of the Catholic Committee on the 2nd of February, a motion was made to rescind the resolution for circulating this Letter, on which, upon a division, the numbers were, for it 14, and against it 24; but the votes of those who had been delegated from the counties having been objected to, they were taken from the 24, and the numbers then were 15 to 14 against the motion, which was only lost, therefore, by a majority of one. This being the case, it might be supposed by government, that a measure carried by so small a majority, would not be persisted in, and they might thus be induced to delay till the last moment resorting to any harsh proceeding. He wished it, however, to be understood, that he did not speak upon this subject with any knowledge of the proceedings of government, but merely presuming what their conduct might have been. That the convention of delegates was to be assembled for other purposes than those of petitioning, was evident from the paragraph in Mr. Hay's letter, stating the wish that the managers from the counties might be those, whose avocations required, or whose leisure permitted their permanent, or occasional residence in Dublin. It was, besides, certain that the petition to Parliament had been finally agreed upon at the meeting of the Catholic Committee on the 2nd of February, and directed to be transmitted for the purpose of being presented. He was of opinion, that the lord lieutenant of Ireland would have deserved to be impeached if he had not used every exertion to put down a convention of delegates thus illegally attempted to be assembled, and by the assembling of which the public peace would have been seriously endangered.

Earl Grosvenor

admitted that the assembling of a convention of delegates would have been dangerous to the public peace; and observed, that what he meant to say was, that no danger would have arisen merely from the number of Catholics which it was proposed to assemble.

Lord Holland

observed, that the noble earl who spoke last but one, had supposed that measures of conciliation had been resorted to by the Irish government previous to issuing the circular Letter, but what they wanted was the proof of that fact upon the table.

It was impossible to take the statement of the noble earl founded upon suppositions. Let the documents be laid upon the table, to shew what the conduct of the Irish government had been. It was whimsical enough that the noble Secretary of State alleged the Catholic Committee to consist of persona who did not speak the sentiments of the Catholics of Ireland, whilst they were held out by the noble earl who spoke last but one, as the organ of the Catholics, to which government looked as regulating their movements. How were these contradictory statements to be reconciled? Like Sosia in the old play, the Catholic Committee thus buffeted about might say, "if we are not the Committee of the Catholics, be so good as to tell us what we are." It was said by an eminent man, Mr. Burke, that it was impossible to draw an indictment against a whole nation, but the Irish government seemed disposed to throw a whole, or three-fourths of a nation into gaol. A noble and learned lord on a former night had said, that, the Convention Act was merely a declaratory act. He was afraid it was so, but if it was, he wished to be informed, whether it declared, what was previously the common law of Ireland, and if so, how it happened that there was such a difference between the common law of Ireland and the common law of England, where such an enactment was no part of that law.

The Earl of Donoughmore

felt himself called on to defend the principles upon which the Catholic Committee had acted upon this occasion so frequently alluded to; and was prepared to contend, that upon any fair and candid view, as well as from what was incontrovertibly apparent on the face of the proceedings, no such conclusions as those drawn by noble lords opposite, particularly by the noble earl who spoke recently, could be deduced from them. The object of the Catholic Committee in assembling the meeting of so many of their brethren, appeared to be no other than to give greater weight and effect to the petitions, which they had to present to both Houses of Parliament. For this purpose they proposed to collect the sense of each county in Ireland upon the petitions, without which they could not be said to express the real sense of the country; and the petitions were consequently kept for the signatures of the most respectable individuals of the Catholic persuasion, if they should approve of their being presented this session. It was under this impression, and with this view, that Mr. O'Connel, who might be considered as one of the principal organs of the Catholic Committee, recommended the adoption of the measure which had excited so violent a proceeding on the part of the Irish government. It was that gentleman's wish that the petition of the Catholics of Ireland should not merely be suffered to lie on the table, like the petition of the English Catholics; and Mr. Hay addressed the circular Letter which had been so much spoken of, not with an intention the most remote of violating the Convention Act, but in order to sanction for the Petition by the authority which it would derive from the signatures of the representatives of the different counties in Ireland, and thus solemnly to authenticate it to the imperial parliament; or to ascertain, on the contrary, through the same organ, whether the petition should proceed or not. The noble secretary of state had mis-stated the general feeling of the Catholic body on the subject of the petition, and the grounds on which they proceeded. But this was no common question, and the manifesto of Mr. Secretary Pole was no common paper. He would ask their lordships what was the object of this extraordinary instrument? Was it intended to prevent the Catholic body from stating their grievances intumultuously? What were they to do? What did their lordships wish them to do? Would they prevent a temperate petition, in order to substitute an open rebellion? The Catholics of Ireland had humbly stated what it was lawful for them to state. They were debarred from any other legal mode of redress, and they resorted to that which alone was open to them. They knew that every great privilege was taken from them: they had their eyes fixed with watchful attention on the Convention Act; they had exerted the utmost precaution that their petition should be decorously and properly drawn up: it was their object not to contravene the letter or the spirit of the law. It had been said to them, in a warning voice, "Guard yourselves against the common enemies of his Majesty's Catholic subjects; we suppose that the right of petitioning is not taken from you; exercise it therefore, but exercise it with caution, for the eyes of government are upon you." Such was the spirit in which the Catholics of Ireland had acted; and he appealed to the sense of the House whether they had not acted in conformity with the letter of the law and the spirit of the constitution. If their lordships looked back to the origin of this Convention Act, they would see that it ought to be considered as inapplicable to the case in which it was now resorted to; for the Catholics of Ireland had petitioned Parliament previous to its enactment: their rights were recognized: their petition was recommended by the government of Ireland, and a remedial statute was passed in compliance with the prayer of that petition; thus sanctioning the mode of obtaining redress, against which this Convention Act was now directed. Would not the recent proceeding, then, afford the Catholics of Ireland room to say they were a marked and proscribed people? that they were the watch-word of a "No Popery" administration? This line of conduct and language with respect to them, was very different from the nature and character of the proceedings which formerly took place, even in the parliament of Ireland, in their favour, when their case was duly noticed in a speech from the throne, and high remedial statutes passed in their behalf. He deprecated, therefore, most strongly, the line of policy which his Majesty's ministers adopted, with respect to no fewer than four millions of the subjects of their common sovereign, in whose ear, he was afraid, much misrepresentation, with respect to them had been poured. The statutes of which they laboured to procure a repeal, were a disgrace to the statute book; and to prevent their endeavours to obtain this laudable end the paper in question was calculated. It was expressly intended, to prevent his Majesty's Catholic subjects of Ireland from doing that to which all the King's subjects in common had a legal and constitutional right, namely, to petition for a redress of their grievances. In whatever view he considered this act, he could only look upon it as a statute equally oppressive and disgraceful—as a sacrifice made by parliament to the inclination and the prejudices of a few private individuals—which stigmatized that assembly as an unlawful one at one period, which had obtained at another the distinct and unqualified sanction of government. It was a statute which held out to an Orange Party, set on by government, an invitation to arrest and imprison his Majesty's Catholic subjects, and converted into willing assistants one part of the people for the purpose of subjugating the other. Nothing could be more injudicious than the enforcement of this act, for the purpose of preventing any discussion on the petition, when the government knew not what the result of the discussion might be. But the strong hand of authority had been ineffectually placed upon it as an extinguisher. He observed that his Majesty's ministers were inclined to smile at his statements, and to treat them with derision and contempt; but he would tell them that he would be heard, when he pleaded in that House the cause of Ireland and of his Majesty's catholic subjects. He did not often obtrude himself on their attention; but when he did address himself to them on a subject of the most vital importance, he saw with indignation the disposition which was manifested to treat it with insulting derision or culpable indifference!—(Hear, hear.) He would again repeat his assertion, that this act (this "religious act" he might term it) was one which would call upon all the Catholics in Ireland not to do any unlawful acts, but to vindicate their characters, and to express their opinions upon the points in question. It had been stated by a noble earl opposite, that the Letter of Mr. Hay, though dated on the 1st of January, had been mysteriously circulated, and was not known to government for tome time, but was acted on as soon as known; but this was a point on which he was prepared to meet that noble earl; for he happened to have an extensive correspondence in Ireland; and he had received a letter, dated the 12th of January, which contained a paragraph, specifying the measure which had been adopted by the Catholic Committee, and inclosing printed copies of the proceedings of that Committee, together with the circular of Mr. Hay to the different counties of Ireland; and this was the secret document with which his Majesty's ministers, and the Irish government, were unacquainted until the 12th of February! He would let them still farther. into the secret, and inform them, that he had been consulted by the Catholic Committee; and that he had represented to them that they had secret enemies, and that, in short, the whole government, on both sides of the water, were adverse to their cause. He had told them not to give themselves the trouble of obtaining signatures in the different counties; for it would not alter the nature of their case, nor give additional strength to their claims, which were already known and recognized. He had told them that all the forms of justice would advocate their cause, which was acknowledged by all but those whose political tenets were to wage eternal enmity with the Catholics.—The noble lord concluded by supporting the motion.

The question was then put, and negatived without a division.