Lords Sitting of 1 June 1809

KING'S MESSAGE RESPECTING THE CLERGY.
Upon the order of the day, for taking into consideration the Message from his majesty, relative to the Clergy.
The Earl of Liverpool,before moving an Address, in answer to his majesty's most gracious Message, observed, that it was intended to extend the bounty of parliament to small livings, under 150 l. per annum.

831
From the returns made of all the livings in the several dioceses of the kingdom, excepting four, of which the return was not yet made, there were in all about 11,700; out of these, 3,291 were livings under 150 l. per annum; upwards of 800 did not exceed 50 l. a year; and of those which were above 50 l. and not exceeding 100 l. per annum, there were upwards of 2,000; but it was not altogether unsatisfactory, there was so large a proportion of greater livings, and that the proportion of those under 150 l. was no greater than about a third. It was highly incumbent on the legislature to do all in their power to better the situation of a class of men, who, of all others, were most serviceable to their country. For this purpose, it had been thought proper by his majesty's government, that, agreeably to the system of an act of parliament, which created what was called Queen Ann's Bounty, application should be made this year to the other house of parliament, for a grant of 100,000 l. which might in the same manner be appropriated to the increase of these small livings. In the mean time, he wished it to be understood that this was only a temporary measure for their relief; it preceded a system which, he trusted, in the next session of parliament, would be provided, for a more speedy and effectual increase of all these small livings. He thought, at present, there was not much necessity for saying more on the subject, and concluded by moving an humble Address, in answer to his majesty's Message, assuring his majesty of their readiness to concur in every measure which could promote so desirable an object as that recommended in the Message.
Viscount Sidmouthsaid, he could assure the house it was not with any wish to throw any objection in the way of extending the bounty of parliament to a class of individuals so deserving, that he rose to express his sentiments on the motion proposed for their lordships consideration. No man was more anxious than himself that the liberality of parliament should be extended to those small livings under 150 l. per annum; but he was apprehensive they were now called upon to agree to a measure without sufficient explanation, and which was to be left to the other house of parliament; from those votes, he was led to conclude, the grant would come before their lordships at the end of the session, in the Appropriation Act.
The Earl of Liverpoolshortly explain-
832
ed: the purport of this measure was only for the present year, and the grant would be disposed of on the principle of Queen Ann's Bounty.
Viscount Sidmouthcontinued to be of opinion, that the manner adopted would leave their lordships an opportunity of only an imperfect discussion, as in the present instance on the message itself. He compared it to Mr. Palmer's Claim; and their lordships should now, as they did then, entertain a jealous sense of any infringement upon their privileges.
Lord Harrowbyentered into the merits of the measure under discussion. He conceived the privileges of the house would not, in the smallest degree, be affected by the present proceeding; he shewed that the grant on Mr. Palmer's Claim would not resemble the present; the former was unprecedented, whereas the latter had been recognised by the legislature in a former act of parliament. He compared the difficulty of increasing small livings, in the reign of Queen Ann, with that of the present times; there was on this account much room to be gratified. At that time, it was calculated it would take 203 years to increase small livings to fifty pounds a year, and 510 more to increase them to one hundred. This consideration probably led to the tardiness which ensued, and started difficulties in the way of their increase, accounted insurmountable. But, in the present times, on a moderate calculation, thirty-nine or forty years would produce what it was before calculated would require 203 years, and the other period of 510 years would be equally reduced in proportion. His lordship contended strenuously for the importance and the policy of attending to the interest and comfort of those clergymen who possessed small incomes.
The Duke of Norfolkcoincided with the sentiments of the noble viscount. He was sorry the session of parliament did not commence in November, and thereby afford more time for the discussion of important business, and prevent their attendance during the hot months, and during that season of the year when many of their lordships were called upon to attend their respective duties in the country. The contrary practice, in his opinion, prevented, on the present occasion, that necessary discussion which ought to precede such an important measure as that under consideration.
The Address was unanimously agreed to.