§ On the motion for the third reading of this bill,
The Earl of Suffolkrose to express his disapprobation of the principle of the bill, and of the hardships to which it would expose persons already labouring under a multiplicity of distresses. The noble earl instanced the case of some tenants of his own, upon whom he knew it would press with peculiar severity.
The Earl of Lauderdalewould not detain their lordships with a repetition of the objections to the principle of the bill, which he continued to consider as most iniquitous. He should then, however, in the most regular and public manner, enter his protest against it.
The Duke of Norfolkdid not rise to oppose the bill. Burdened as the country already was with a load of taxes, its situation was perhaps such as, under the present circumstances, to call for and justify some addition to that burden. His object in rising now was to avail himself of the privilege of a peer of parliament, and offer some advice to his majesty's ministers which the present posture of affairs suggested to his mind. He hoped it might not be deemed irregular or unparliamentary to offer that advice, and put a few questions to his majesty's government, at a moment when parliament was voting supplies for the current services of the year. In stating, however, his opinion to the house, it was by no means his wish to draw any answers from the ministers which they should not deem it perfectly proper and safe to make; 1107 indeed, he looked for no answers or observations at all respecting the subjects he should touch upon, unless his majesty's ministers thought it consistent with their duty and the present critical state of affairs, to enter into some explanation of them. The points to which he obviously alluded, and on which the public attention most anxiously hung, were the present situation of Spain and Sweden. The most wanton ambition, the foulest perfidy, the most cruel oppression, had lately displayed themselves in Spain, to a degree unparalleled, he believed, in any age or country. These excesses had fired the Spaniards with becoming indignation and resentment, and they were now endeavouring to resist the power which was preparing to overwhelm them. Such a spectacle must at all times be interesting to Englishmen; but it must be peculiarly so at the present moment. There was no man but must wish success to a generous people thus struggling in the glorious cause of the maintenance of their independence; no man, he was sure, could more cordially wish them success than he did, or would more willingly concur in the proper means of promoting and ensuring that success. But what were the best mode and the proper conditions by which Spain could be assisted? He did not pretend to know the particular circumstances in which Spain was placed, or the degree of hope that might be entertained of the success of these who were endeavouring to resist the sternest tyranny, instigated by the most desperate ambition, that ever was attempted to be exercised by any potentate over the independence of nations. Louis XIV. it was true, aspired to universal monarchy, but in a milder way, and with means less terrible. More formidable abilities, and more accumulated forces, were now to be contended against, and the issue was of the highest moment, not only to Spain, but to this country, to Europe, and the world. What part his majesty's ministers were prepared to act at so critical a juncture, he could not conjecture. They had at present in this country delegates from the brave people in Spain, who seemed determined to stem the torrent by which they were to be swept into servitude. From these, and of her sources, he hoped they might be enabled to collect the best information of the real state of that country, and of the probability of success with which so bold and hazardous a struggle might be attended. With such information before them, what would be their con- 1108 duct? This was the point which excited his anxiety. Would they hold out encouragement and assistance to the Spaniards who were now in arms against the invaders, before they saw any form of government established in the country with which they could communicate? Would they make common cause with the patriots of Spain, before they ascertained the principles upon which they were acting, and the ends which they were endeavouring to accomplish? He could not think it politic to embark in such a cause, without some previous knowledge of the designs of the Spanish patriots, without some more definite determination of the grounds upon which they were proceeding to act. He hoped ministers would, in the present case, take a lesson from past experience, and recollect the result of the interference of this country in La Vendee. He felt it his duty to throw out these hints, without expecting any detailed explanation of what might be the views and intentions of his majesty's government.—He now begged leave to trouble their lordships with a word or two about Sweden. The situation of that kingdom and of its sovereign was also highly interesting; respecting the issue of the struggle which that gallant prince was making against the common oppressor, he confessed he had his fears. Still, he should have our best assistance, as if our hopes of final success were most sanguine. Such an example was to be supported and upheld. But should that spirited sovereign be also doomed to yield, we should not be inattentive to the fate that was to befal his kingdom. If it was to be portioned out, should not this country look to the interests of Denmark, to the future views of the great northern power, and to the attempts that might still be made to assert the independance of the north of Europe? Our hostility to Denmark could not be very keen: we should even be disposed to make the amende honorable to her for what had past, and rather contemplate what reconciliation and future friendship might effect, than what might gratify present hostility. He should trouble their lordships no further, but only hope, that in expressing these his sentiments on the present occasion, he had not been guilty of any irregularity.
§ Lord Hawkesburygave full credit to the candid and circumspect manner in which, the noble duke had delivered his opinions upon points of such delicacy. The noble duke was perfectly regular in the mode he 1109 took of delivering them, for when supplies were to be granted to his majesty, it was doubtless open to every noble lord to advise how those grants ought to be applied. In adverting to the points to which the noble duke had more particularly directed the attention of the house, their lordships must be sensible that his observations must be very general, and that owing to the very peculiar and delicate nature of the subject, he could not at present enter into any detailed explanations. With respect to Spain, the people of that country had manifested a spirit and determination to resist the attempts of their invaders, which would have done honour to the most glorious periods of their history, and which perhaps were not to be expected under the pressure of such formidable difficulties. Such a scene, every man in that house, every man in the country, must hail with the liveliest satisfaction; and what every generous heart must wish should be done in support of so glorious a cause, his majesty's ministers would feel it their duty to do. With regard to what information they had received of the designs or the hopes of those brave and resolute men, who, in defence of their country's independance, were exposing themselves to every thing which a powerful and sanguinary tyrant could devise, and indict, it could not be expected he should now unfold it. His majesty's ministers were fully sensible of the extreme importance of this event; and he trusted they would be found to have acted accordingly.—The situation of Sweden was certainly the next in interest and importance, and towards the monarch of that kingdom, whose gallant exertions so justly claimed our warmest wishes and admiration, the conduct of his majesty's ministers would also, he trusted, appear to be without reproach. When the time came freely to unfold the principles and the views which had guided that conduct, whenever that moment arrived, he should not shrink from that inquiry; but on the contrary, be most forward and eager to court it. He hoped, that under circumstances like the present, he should not be expected to enter into any details, but be allowed to expect that their lordships might be assured that his majesty's government would neglect nothing which the nature of the circumstances, both of this and of other countries, might suggest and require.
Lord Hollandstill retained his objections to the bill, on which, however, he should 1110 not now again dwell, but rather follow the example of his noble friend near him, and shortly express his opinion of the present aspect of affairs. What was the extent of the means of the Spanish patriots, or what their future views respecting a change in their government, he did not pretend to be accurately informed of. Of the spirit that actuated them he had no doubt; and from the nature of the country, and the resources which that spirit would supply, he willingly took the most auspicious omens. It held out a prospect of things which authorized the best hopes; and he anxiously expected it would be improved and taken advantage of. Much would depend upon the spirit and the views with which the government of this country would now act towards Spain. His advice was, that their spirit should be most liberal, their views most explicit, their objects most distinct, and most plainly understood. If they attempted at all to assist the efforts of Spain to resist her invaders, they should broadly explain, not only what they intended to do, but also what they did not intend to do. Above all, they should convince the Spaniards, that in assisting them we had no private interests to promote, no selfish objects to attain, no favourite forms of government to prescribe, no commercial advantage to require, no exclusive partialities to insist on; that we disinterestedly assisted Spain to achieve what the Spanish people were hazarding every thing to accomplish; that we were consequently willing to guarantee the integrity of the Spanish empire, and to negotiate with any form of government which the Spanish people were disposed to adopt, or with any family which they might choose to call to the throne, if they decided on a monarchical form, whether limited or unlimited. Not a moment should be lost in laying down agreements of that nature. The time for acting was the present moment, and his majesty's ministers would be seriously responsible, if, for any petty considerations, such as those he had alluded to, the opportunity should be lost. He should again repeat, that the ground of co-operation and assistance between the two countries, should be broad, liberal, and thoroughly understood on both sides.
The Duke of Norfolkcould by no means assent to a principle laid down by his noble friend; he meant the guaranteeing the integrity of the Spanish empire. He considered the Spanish possessions in South. 1111 America as lost from the present moment, and severed for ever from the mother country. It was, therefore, for the government of this country, a commercial and maritime nation, to watch the fall of the Spanish colonies. He could not otherwise look with security and satisfaction to the British interests in that quarter.—The bill was then read a third time.