HL Deb 29 July 1807 vol 9 cc987-9
Lord Hawkesbury

moved the order of the day, for taking into consideration the gracious communications which he had yesterday the honour of delivering to the house. In moving an address of thanks to his majesty for these communications, he only followed in form the usual proceeding of the house; and as to the object and matter of the first of them, he did not anticipate any material objection. It simply announced, that a treaty had been entered into with his Swedish majesty to subsidize a certain number of Swedish troops to be employed on a particular service, and which treaty rested on the basis of the former one: the only difference being, that instead of 14,000. men for which the former treaty stipulated, the present treaty made an addition of 4000 men to the former, making in the whole 18,000 men; the addition to be on the same terms as the number of troops originally stipulated. With respect to what regarded Prussia, there could scarcely be any difference of opinion; as the urgency of his Prussian majesty's affairs appeared to require it. Some advances of money had been made to relieve him. In addition to the 80,000l. advanced by the late administration, his majesty's present government had made a further addition of 100,000l.; the other assistance in arms, ammunition, &c. amounted to 200,000l. These were the sums to be made good; and the object of the address he was about to move was, that their lordships do concur in making good the sums. His lordship concluded with moving and reading an address to that effect.

Lord Holland

would not object to the address; but, at the same time, he could not help observing, that he was at a loss to conceive the grounds upon which ministers proceeded in making this second treaty, if they saw that his Swedish majesty was unable to carry the first into execution. No doubt his Swedish majesty would have done every thing in his power to fulfil his engagement.

The Earl of Lauderdale

felt very anxious to be informed, if the papers upon the table contained every thing which his majesty's ministers had done towards procuring continental co-operation, and more intimately cementing our continental connections and alliances. If they had done no more, how could they justify the language which they put into his majesty's speech, at the close of the last session? A pompous paragraph was there introduced, which held forth to the country the assurance, that ministers had been employed in drawing closer the ties that connected us with our allies, and in preparing the means of co-operation and concert, by which alone a rational hope could be entertained of resisting the ambition of the enemy, and of finally procuring a solid and safe peace. Surely, what appeared from the papers now upon the table, could contribute little or nothing towards the accomplishment of that object. With what views then could ministers have introduced into the king's speech, this big promise of doing a great deal, while in effect they had done nothing, except with the invidious one of endeavouring insidiously to contrast their own conduct with that of their predecessors in office?

Lord Hawkesbury

thanked the noble lord for having afforded him this opportunity of explanation. The passage in the speech to which the noble lord had alluded promised no more than his majesty's ministers had been prepared to perform. Their propositions to the continental powers were not confined to what appeared in the papers now before their lordships, but embraced offers of much greater magnitude in case of further and more extensive co-operation. But they still kept pace with the efforts, which those powers were likely to make, and with the degree of effect with which it was probable they might be attended. Unfortunately, however, the hopes of this more effectual and successful co-operation were now at an end; and no more pecuniary advances had been made to our allies than those referred to in his majesty's message.

Lord Holland

here took occasion to inveigh against the principle of holding out to foreign powers the temptation of subsidies, in order to excite them to take a part in the war. He himself had witnessed the mischievous effects of that principle, and it was one which he should ever reprobate and resist, as influencing the conduct of this country, with respect to its continental connections. The attempt prematurely to plunge other powers into hostilities had made the most unfavourable impression abroad, Such allurements on our part seemed to make the subjects of the sovereigns in alliance with us imagine that their governments bartered their blood for British gold, and so far that idea went to destroy the moral energy by which they might wield the physical strength which we were so ready to purchase from them. He should ever set his face therefore against the throwing out of such enticements, and he had seriously to regret that we had too long and too often acted upon that principle.

Lord Mulgrave

was astonished to hear the noble lord indulge in such observations, and impute to his majesty's government motives and views which had never guided their conduct. Where was the proof that his majesty's present ministers ever held out subsidies as allurements and enticements to draw other powers into the war; and what opinion must the noble lord entertain of those powers of the continent, who, while their crowns, their dominions, their honour, their independence, every thing dear and sacred to such personages, were threatened with utter ruin, could still remain unalarmed and inert, and be prompted into action only by the influence of British subsidies? Such a supposition was too absurd to be seriously attended to; and as to the system of the late administration, to which the noble lord so fondly referred, and seemed so anxious to bring under discussion, he could fairly say, that the inertness and folly of that administration, had formed the heaviest obstacle with which the present government had to struggle. They had never prepared any one practical means by which our allies could be assisted, or that could inspire them with the hopes of contending successfully with the common enemy. Their measures were adopted without foresight conducted without energy, and, consequently, had producer no effect. The question was then put on the address, and agreed to nem. diss.