§ Lord Eldonrose and apologized for troubling their lordships; but, having been a member of the two administrations in which the bills were passed, which were now proposed to be repealed, he thought it his duty to state shortly his reasons for voting on the former night against this measure. The Additional Force bill, he observed, had been resorted to in consequence of the enormous price which at length came to be given for substitutes under the Army of Reserve act, and, compared with the latter act, with respect to penalties, it was lenity itself. He could not, however, conceive the reason why the penalties under the Additional Force act were to be given up, and the money already paid into the Exchequer to be returned, whilst, at the same time, the fines remaining under the Army of Reserve act were to be enforced; which latter act was also repealed by the present bill, though scarcely a word had been said about it. He would not advert to measures which were not before the house, or to places which had not been mentioned in that house; but if the army was to be left for its supply to ordinary recruiting, such a measure was directly in the teeth of the experience of several years past, and, he was convinced, would be insufficient for the intended purpose. He could not help also remarking, that notwithstanding the charges against the administration of which he was a member, of weakness and inefficiency, yet those who had succeeded them had proposed the repeal of a measure for recruiting the army, without being prepared to bring forward any substitute in its place.
The Earl of Roslynthought the noble and learned lord had misconceived the provision in the bill, relative to the fines under the Army of Reserve act, which, in his opinion, only applied to the fines imposed upon the parishes, for the non-appearance of men after they had been balloted, and not to any other description of penalties.
§ Lord Eldonwas still of opinion, that the 329 provision applied to penalties imposed on the parishes for not providing the men.
§ Earl Spencerexpressed his surprise, that the noble and learned lord should make an objection to a particular clause in the bill on the 3d reading, after suffering it to pass through the committee sub silentio. With respect to nothing being said about the Army of Reserve act, it was an omission of his own on the former night; but he could not conceive it possible, that any man in the kingdom, much less any noble lord in that house, could entertain an opinion, that the Army of Reserve act ought now to be enforced. When that act came up to the house, he was one of those that opposed, thinking it was pregnant with dangerous consequences. He was willing to admit, however, that it subsequently proved efficacious, although extremely oppressive. That act was, however, Completely functus officio; and it was in order to prevent its being in force after the repeal of the Additional Force act, that words were introduced to repeal it; and that it ought to be repealed, was, he thought, a point perfectly and clearly established, as to be carried into effect now, it must be nugatory and oppressive. To give up the penalties, and refund the money already received on account of them, he considered barely an act of justice, as it would be gross injustice to levy penalties for not doing that which it was impossible to do. He repeated, that the most desirable object was, to remove the impediment which the Additional Force act threw in the way of the recruiting service.
§ The Earl of Hardwickeobjected to that part of the bill which went to give up the penalties under the Additional Force act, as it might, at a future period, be deemed necessary by parliament, to enact some compulsory measure for the purpose of recruiting the army, and then this provision would operate to encourage persons in neglecting to carry such an act into execution, and to prevent any zeal or exertion from being displayed. He voted against the repeal of the Additional Force act, finding that, as a necessary consequence of it, a bill was now in the House of Commons to repeal the Additional Force act for Ireland. With respect to this latter bill, he suggested that the parishes in Ireland were not charged, as they were in England, with the maintenance of the families of militia-men whilst on service, that being done at the charge of the public revenue, 330 and therefore, that the penalties, instead of being given up, ought to be appropriated to the revenue.
Lord Hollandthought the noble earl had given a curious reason for voting against the repeal of the English Additional Force act, With respect to the penalties, he contended, that those who had contrived to raise men under the act, had done it by evading its provisions. Such conduct might be loyal, as was said on a former night; but it was contrary to the provisions of the act; and it was therefore highly unjust, that those who had endeavoured to raise men by complying with the provisions of the act, and had from necessity failed, should be on that account subjected to the penalties.
§ Earl Spencerexpressed a willingness to pay every attention to the suggestion of the noble earl (Hardwicke) when the bill, to which he had alluded, came before the house.—The bill was then read a third time and passed, and a message ordered to be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint them therewith.