HL Deb 03 March 1806 vol 6 cc250-3
The Marquis of Abercorn

moved the order of the day for resuming the. adjourned debate on his motion of this day se'[...]ight, for the attendance of several witnesses on the 28th of April, relative to the pending case of Mr. justice Fox. He adverted to what had taken place on a former evening; and when a noble lord (Grenville) then in his place, high in his majesty's councils, had suggested the expediency of a short delay, to give noble lords time and leisure to consider of the proposition, he expected, that he would come forward, and assign his reasons for wishing such a proceeding to take place. From the respect which he entertained for that noble lord, joined to the consideration of the delay proposed being merely nominal, with reference to the effect of a proposed order, which was to take place two months hence, he was induced to comply freely with that suggestion. He now deprecated any farther postponement of the consideration of that propositions. Their lordships would consider, that repeated and solemn discussions of the house had taken place upon the subject; that they not only heard and examined a great deal of evidence, but that the house was pledged, by its legislative act, to continue the proceeding. He was at a loss to conceive what reasons could be assigned for any further delay, or why the proceedings should not go forward with expedition and effect, as far as was consistent with the bare convenience of individuals, and the solemnity due to the nature and magnitude of the case. It was important they should, as far as in them lay, proceed to bring a case of such peculiar importance to a farther hearing, and a final decision. When he considered the high situation, not only of dignity, but of responsibility, in which the noble lord stood, and the parliamentary and constitutional character with which he was invested, he was unwilling to suppose that his first parliamentary measure and trial of strength, would be an attempt to interfere with the course of an important judicial process before that house, which had been solemnly instituted, commenced, and some progress, though with no great degree of expedition, made in it. These were not the only reasons which should determine their lordships upon the present occasion. Not only the eyes of this country, but especially those of the people of Ireland, were turned to that house, with respect to the proceeding; it was regarded by them as a progressive endeavour to redress important grievances, and to enhance the security of the rights and privileges of his majesty's subjects in that country; the first attempt which had been made for their effectual protection, since the incorporation of their parliament with that of this country. This was but one side of the case under consideration. On the other hand it was to be recollected, what was due on the score of impartial justice to the learned gent. whose conduct was the object of the investigation; they were aware of the evidence which had been adduced against him, and of course he should, in justice, be afforded an opportunity of controverting, of rebutting, and refusing it, if it were in his power. He wished that every opportunity should be afforded him for these purposes, as certainly his character was deeply implicated in the matters of charge. He should, therefore, without troubling their lordships with any further observations upon the case, move to have the question put. He had, however, to apprise the house, he should have to move for the attendance of a few more witnesses, when he could ascertain the number which may be spared.

Lord Grenville

said, he could assure the house, that he had nothing more in view in the course he had adopted, with respect to the affair in question, than the interests of the country, and the ends of substantial justice with respect to all parties, which he wished to be attained, in the mode that was most consistent with the laws of the land, and the practice of the constitution. It was in reference to these great objects, that he wished for some interval of delay in deciding upon what the noble marquis had proposed; it also arose from a difficulty which he then felt, and continued to feel, as to the course, circumstanced as the case then was, most proper to be pursued. Were he called upon to give a decided opinion, it would be that which he had more than once expressed last year; namely, that every step which had been taken in the business, had been in a wrong, and, as he thought, an unconstitutional course; in this opinion, he was confirmed by every research he had made, and every degree of study he had given to the subject. He was by no means ignorant or unmindful of those difficulties, and embarrassments, which the case, as it now stood, involved. He was also fully aware of its magnitude and importance. He felt all the difficulty of the consideration of breaking it off, or discontinuing the proceeding, after having entertained it so far. The question was therefore a great and important one, in a variety of views, not only as it respected individuals in Ireland, and the character of the personage accused; but as it involved considerations connected with the honour and character of the house. Upon the whole, he was not ashamed to say, the difficulties still continued to operate upon his mind, which was not yet prepared or satisfied as to what was proper, or ought to be done, or what course ought to be adopted. He felt it incumbent on him to put in this protest in behalf of the opinions he had formerly avowed; with regard to the express motion, it being to operate upon such a distant day as the 28th of April, which would afford their lordships ample time for intermediate consideration, he should not then resist it.

Lord Auckland

observed, that with respect to the motion, were he to decide upon it, it should be in the negative. He was by no means satisfied with the course that had been adopted, and every thing he had since been able to learn, or collect, tended to confirm him in such an opinion: that house, he thought, was not competent to entertain a proceeding of the kind, and therefore he should be induced to resist it in every stage. So strong was the impression upon his mind, that he had recorded his sentiments upon the journals last year. He not only regretted it had ever gone so far, but he was sorry it was ever entered upon in that house; and he believed that few who heard him, would not wish it well out of that house. In concluding, his lordship adverted to the immense expence which had been already, and in all probability would still be incurred in the prosecution of the affair, a great part of which, he thought, would be ultimately paid by the public.

Lord Hawkesbury

did not wish then to enter into a retrospective view of the affairs in question; they had been principally to consider the situation in which it now stood; in this view of it he seemed to deprecate all idea of stopping short. It was impossible for any person to read the case in evidence, which lay upon the table, and not see the absolute necessity of proceeding in the investigation of it. Not only with a view to the rights and interests, but the character of all parties concerned; even the credit and character of the house were involved; it was, therefore, in all these points of view, proper to proceed, thoroughly to investigate the case, and come to a decision upon it. He had given the best attention in his power to the business, and was ready to say, that even a respect for the character of the learned judge in question should be an additional inducement to their lordships to continue the investigation.

The Earl of Bucking hamshire,

after shortly adverting to the sentiments he had formerly declared upon the subject, observed, he could consistenly, in the present state of the case, vote for a suspension of the proceedings. He alluded to what had been adduced in evidence, and upon record against the learned judge in question, and the degree of publicity it had obtained, which should be a consideration to determine their lordships not to leave the case in such an unfinished state.

The Marquis of Buckingham

appeared father to view the case as it stood at present before the house, and adverted to the ill consequence of stopping short. In this consideration, he seemed to think the character and estimation of the house were also involved. The proceeding in these different points of view, was, he agreed, of great importance. The opinions he had avowed as to the origin of the business, and the question of its being properly entertained in the first instance, by their lordships, he still retained. But the case, after what had been done, now stood in a different situation; this he threw out for the consideration of the house: under the impression, however, which, upon the whole, he felt, respecting the affair, he could not consistently assent to the motion.—The question was then put, and the witnesses originally named in the motion, were ordered to attend on the 28th of April, accordingly.