Lords Sitting of 19 December 1806

THE LORDS COMMISSIONERS' SPEECH.
This day at 4 o'clock, his grace the archbishop of Canterbury, the lord chancellor, the earl of Winchelsea, and earl Spencer, being robed, took their seats on the bench in front of the throne, and Mr. Quarme, deputy usher of the black rod, was then dispatched to order the attendance of the commons, who forthwith, with the speaker at their head, appeared at the bar. The royal commission, authorising certain peers therein named, or any three or more of them, to open the parliament, was then read. After which, the Lord Chancellor delivered the following speech to both houses.
"My Lords and Gentlemen;
"His majesty has commanded us to assure you, that in the difficult and arduous circumstances under which you are now assembled, it is a great satisfaction to him to recur to the firmness and wisdom of his parliament, after so recent an opportunity of collecting the sense of his people. His majesty has ordered the papers which have been exchanged in the course of the late negociation with France, to be laid before you. His majesty has employed every effort for the restoration of general tranquillity, on terms consistent with the interest and honour of his people, and with that inviolable good faith towards his allies, by which the conduct of this country has always been distinguished.— The ambition and injustice of the enemy disappointed these endeavours, and in the same moment kindled a fresh war in Europe, the progress of which has been attended with the most calamitous events.—After witnessing the subversion of the .ancient constitution of Germany, and the subjugation of a large proportion of its most considerable states; Prussia found herself still more nearly threatened by that danger, which she had vainly hoped to avert by so many sacrifices. She was therefore
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at length compelled to adopt the resolution of openly resisting this unremitted system of aggrandisement and conquest. But neither this determination, nor the succeeding measures, were previously concerted with his majesty; nor had any disposition been shewn to offer any adequate satisfaction for those aggressions which had placed the two countries in a state of mutual hostility.—Yet, in this situation, his majesty did not hesitate to adopt, without delay, such measures as were best calculated to unite their councils and interests, against the common enemy. The rapid course of the calamities which ensued, opposed insurmountable difficulties to the execution of this purpose.—In the midst of these disastrous events, and under the most trying circumstances, the good faith of his majesty's allies has remained unshaken. The conduct of the king of Sweden has been distinguished by the most honourable firmness. Between his majesty and the emperor of Russia, the happiest union subsists; it has been cemented by; reciprocal proofs of good faith and confidence; and his majesty doubts not that you will participate in his anxiety to cultivate and confirm an alliance which affords the only remaining hope of safety for the continent of Europe.
"Gentlemen of the House of Commons;
" His majesty looks with confidence to your assistance in those exertions which the honour and independence of your country demand. The necessity of adding to the public burthens will be painful to your feelings, and is deeply distressing to his majesty. In considering the estimates for the various branches of the public service, you will best consult his majesty's wishes, by combining all practicable economy with those efforts which it is necessary to make against the formidable and increasing power of the enemy.
"My Lords and Gentlemen;
"The long series of misfortune which has afflicted the continent of Europe, could not fail to affect, in some degree, many important interests of this country. But, under every successive difficulty, his majesty has had the satisfaction of witnessing an increasing energy and firmness on the part of his people, whose uniform and determined resistance has been no less advantageous than honourable to themselves, and has exhibited the most striking example to the surrounding nations. The unconquerable valour and discipline of his

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majesty's fleets and armies, continue to be displayed with undiminished lustre. The great sources of our prosperity and strength are unimpaired; nor has the British nation been, at .any time, more united in sentiment and action, or more determined to maintain inviolate the independence of the empire, and the dignity of the national character.—With these advantages, and with an humble reliance on the protection of the Divine Providence, his majesty is prepared to meet the exigencies of this great crisis; assured of receiving the fullest support from the wisdom of your deliberations, and from the tried affection, loyalty, and public spirit of his brave people."
The commons then withdrew, and the house adjourned for a short time to unrobe Having again assembled, his majesty's speech was read by the lord chancellor, and afterwards by the clerk at the table.
The Earl of Jerseyrose to move an address to his majesty. In thus rising to address their lordships for the first time, he felt himself in a situation of considerable difficulty, and hoped for their lordships' indulgence. In adverting to the topics contained in his majesty's speech, the first to be noticed was, the negociation between this country and France. As the papers respecting this subject would shortly he laid on their lordships' table, it would not now be regular to enter into any detailed discussion respecting the progress and result of that negociation; it must, however, be evident to the it lordships, from what had already transpired, that the negociation had broken off in consequence of the imperious conduct and exorbitant demands of France. His majesty, anxious that peace should be restored, if that could be attained consistently, with the honour and interests of the country, had ordered the commencement of a negociation, the main business of which was transacted by a man (Mr. Fox) than whom no one was more fit, whose great and comprehensive mind was admirably calculated to embrace all the interests of the country, whose candour and manliness of character were exhibited in the most striking manner, in the frankness, the clearness, and precision, with which he communicated with the French government, whilst, at the same time, he did not give up one jot of the interests or the honour of his country, but asserted them with all the firmness and energy which so important an occasion required. The
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negociation then commenced under the most favourable auspices, and, notwithstanding the lamented death of the great man to whom he had alluded, was carried on in the same spirit. That it had failed in producing peace, was to be attributed to the enemy. We certainly had no right to expect, that the French government, under all the circumstances in which it was placed, would consent to any degrading concession; but we were in too proud a situation, and had too much reliance on our own energies, to consent to any humiliation: if the French government would not consent to treat upon equal terms, the fault was theirs. We had deeply to lament the heavy calamities which had fallen upon Prussia, but, at the same time, it was no small satisfaction to us, that the councils of Prussia had not been precipitated into rash measures by the advice or instigation of this country. It was scarcely possible for their lordships to find in all history an instance of a great power so totally overthrown, he might almost say annihilated, in the course of a few days. Prussia, who had made sacrifice after sacrifice to France, apparently with the view of averting war, at length rushed precipitately into hostilities, and met with an unexampled fate. Her example would afford an awful lesson to other states, and would convince them that security was not to be attained by making humiliating sacrifices. It was, however, a source of great satisfaction that this country, when Prussia actually made an effort against the common enemy, did not hesitate immediately to step forward to afford her every assistance which circumstances would permit. In the midst of the calamities which had occurred on the continent, it was highly gratifying to witness the conduct of the king of Sweden, who, whilst he had opposed the enemy by every means in his power, had displayed a firmness and an energy which conferred the highest honour on the character of :that monarch. The contemplation of the conduct of our faithful ally, Russia, also afforded the utmost satisfaction; nothing could be more gratifying than the close alliance which subsisted between this country and Russia, an alliance, of her fidelity to which Russia had given repeated proofs, and particularly in her recent refusal to ratify the rash and inconsiderate act of her minister at Paris. These instances of good faith on the part of Russia, were the more gratifying, that power being now almost the

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only ally of this country left, and therefore the cultivation of our alliance with her, became so much the more desirable. That in our present situation great sacrifices must be made, was evident, but when the great object we had in view was contemplated, these sacrifices must sink in the comparison. He was convinced that there was not a man who bore the envied name of a Briton, with all the blessings and privileges attached to that title, who would not cheerfully come forward to make those sacrifices which: were required to maintain the honour and the dignity of the country, our laws, our constitution, and all that was dear to us Let us, said the noble earl, rely upon ourselves, and put forth all our energies. I was true we had, in the course of a twelve. month, lost two men of pre-eminent talent but there was still ability amply enough left, to direct the energies of the country with the best hopes of ultimate success He had no doubt that the parliament and the people would be unanimous in supporting his majesty's government by every exertion in the prosecution of a war, until peace could be obtained, consistent with the honour of the country, but which we could never consent to obtain by making humiliating sacrifices. The valour which had continued to be displayed by his majesty's fleets and armies, was an amply sufficient pledge of our superiority; our little army, if he might call it so, in Calabria had bravely and victoriously sustained the British character, whilst our fleets had every where maintained their accustomed, superiority. With all these advantage and with the great sources of our prosperity and strength unimpaired, we might look forward with confidence to the, result. Relying upon ourselves, and united in sentiment and in action, we might set our economy at defiance, and finally, he trustee bring this great contest to a successful and glorious issue. The noble earl conclude with moving, " That an humble address be presented to his majesty;" which address was, as usual, an echo of his majesty's speech, and nearly the same as that which we insert in this day's proceedings of the house of commons; see page 39. After the address had been read by the lord chancellor, and again by clerk at the table,
Lord Somerspresented himself to the lordships. He rose, he said, to second the address which had been proposed by the noble earl. Concurring as he did
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with the noble earl in the sentiments which he had advanced, he felt considerable difficulty in following him upon the same grounds after the ability which the noble earl had displayed. It was his wish to support the present administration, conceiving, that though it combined different parties, those parties were united upon public and patriotic principles, and that it also combined so large a portion of the talent and ability of the country, that every reliance might be placed upon their exertions. In noticing the topics adverted to in his majesty's speech, he should scarcely be able, after what had been said by the noble earl, to avoid repetition: he thought it, however, necessary in seconding the address, to comment briefly upon some of them. With respect to the negotiation, he would abstain from entering into any discussion, as that subject would come regularly before the house, when the papers respecting it were laid upon their lordships' table. The calamities which had befallen Prussia were deeply to be lamented, although it was a consolation to us that this country had no share in producing them. It appeared to him, however, that it was highly laudable in his majesty's ministers, the moment they found a disposition in Prussia to make an effort against France, to seize the opportunity of offering such support and such assistance to Prussia as circumstances might require. It afforded the greatest satisfaction to witness the conduct of Sweden, and of our faithful ally Russia, of whose good faith we had received the most gratifying proofs. The valour of our fleets and armies was a theme for the highest praise, and bade us despise the threats of the enemy, although no means ought to be omitted in order to guard against a possible attack. In this point of view he highly approved of the measures which his majesty's ministers had brought forward for increasing the military force of the country, and although it had been said, that they had damped the spirit of the volunteers, he believed that very few of that highly meritorious body of men had quitted their standards. At a crisis like the present, he trusted, that the house would set an example of unanimity, in pledging themselves to a firm and vigorous prosecution of the war. Our present situation called for the exertion of all the energies of the county, with spirit and unanimity, and, he had no doubt, that I that spirit and unanimity would be dis-

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played both by the parliament and the people.
Lord Hawkesburysaid, he should not think he had discharged his duty, if he allowed the address to pass without offering some observations on the speech which occasioned it. He would first embrace the opportunity of expressing his satisfaction at the able manner in which the address was moved by the noble earl, of whose friendship he was happy to boast He agreed with his noble friend in ever general sentiment which fell from him. They, as well as the manner in which they were delivered, called for the approbation of both sides of the house. No party-spirit should ever induce him to withhold his concurrence and applause from sentiments befitting the great crisis in which we were placed, and particularly when they were expressed by a nobleman for whom he had the greatest persona regard. There were, however, circumstances connected with the speech from the throne, to which he could not avoid calling the attention of their lordships. The first point upon which he should observe was one not openly mentioned in the speech, but indirectly alluded to; he meant the dissolution of parliament. It was not his intention to question the king's power to dissolve parliament; that part of the prerogative he allowed in its fullest extent and plenitude. He admitted that it was a prerogative which was inherent in him, in its strongest sense. If it were possible that parliament could acquire legal permanence, for ever so short a time, independent of the crown, there would be no security for the monarchy. But this, like every part of the prerogative, should be exercised with a wholesome and sound discretion. If it should be found to have been exercised with levity, or without a due necessity, it was a measure for which ministers would incur a very weighty responsibility. What was there in the state of the country to have justified the late unexpected and premature dissolution of parliament—of a parliament which had only sat 4 sessions, and which had nearly three years to run? From the passing of the septennial act in the year 1715, almost 90 years ago, except in the precedent of 1784, upon which he should say a few words before he sat down, there was no instance of a parliament being dissolved under six sessions. There was no instance, he would repeat his assertion, except a demise of the crown, and the one
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he had mentioned. The dissolution of 1784 was one to which there could be no objection; it was unavoidable. At that time a misunderstanding subsisted between the crown and the house of commons with respect to the government. Whenever such an unhappy difference did arise, there was but one way of composing it; either the crown must yield, or dissolve the parliament. But had any circumstance recurred to justify the late dissolution? Far from it; and yet ministers, without a cause assigned, or indeed assignable, took upon them to advise a dissolution, for no other object that he could discover, than that, to them, no doubt, a most urgent one, of a little convenience. He could find no cause, except that which he had just stated, to warrant such a measure. The most probable was, that of the rupture of the negociation with France; but let their lordships see how that question stood. Whatever difference of opinion might have existed with respect to many of the measures pursued by ministers, on no subject which ever engaged the attention of the country had there been such complete unanimity as in regard to supporting his majesty in the prosecution of the war. Upon other questions there might have been a difference of opinion, but upon this vital subject there was none. Whatever shade of difference there was, was on the part of those who disapproved of the other measures of ministers. Their opponents were supposed to be more earnest for the prosecution of the war, than his majesty's government was. There was also another measure of ministers, of which he could not approve; he meant the Declaration which had been issued pending the suspension of parliament. The country was not in a condition to judge of that declaration, except it were accompanied by the documents upon which it was founded. If the rupture of the negociation overwhelmed ministers with any apprehension or difficulty, the fair mode would have been, not to have dissolved parliament, but to have called the existing parliament together, and submitted the whole grounds of the negociation to it. He would not accuse ministers of any intention to deceive the country, but the dissolution certainly had the effect of surprising it. In corroboration of what he had advanced, he would only call to their lordships' recollection, an address which had been published in the county of Norfolk. In that address a right hon. gent. (Mr.

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Windham), who was the last person in the world he should suppose capable of deceit, had told the county, that, as far as he knew, there was no intention to dissolve the parliament. The consequence was, that the whole kingdom was led to believe that all reports to that effect were unfounded and premature. Subsequent to this a proclamation appeared, in which a day was fixed for calling parliament together for dispatch of business; and yet, notwithstanding these repeated assurances, a dissolution was announced, to the surprise and astonishment of the whole kingdom. The persons who advised this measure had much to answer for.—Notwithstanding the silence of the speech, he could not avoid saying a few words upon the military measures to which the noble baron who preceded him alluded with so much satisfaction. When the persons composing the present administration, lamented the inadequacy of the measures of their predecessors, it was naturally to be expected that they had system of more energy and efficiency to propose. But what did they do? They, began with overturning the whole of the ancient system for keeping up the army; they proposed measures, the instantaneous effect of which was to damp the spirit of the volunteers; they proposed measures which; were productive of an enormous expence and which, he would venture to assert, had, entirely disappointed even the expectation of those from whom they were supposed to originate. One of their measures, the Training act, was never carried into execution; nor an attempt was made to put in force. He was glad there had not; for of that measure, which had been brought forward with so much parade, and upon which such reliance appeared to be placed, he had but one opinion; namely, that was either impracticable, or that it would only be carried into effect with a degree of vexation and inconvenience totally repugnant to the natural feelings of the people —With respect to the regular recruiting he wished to know how far the new system had been more productive than that which was so improvidently superseded by it What, then, he would ask, had those new military measures produced? it was notorious that the military defence of the country was not now near so considerable as it was 12 months ago. But all these notwithstanding the silence of the speech, must be the subject of future discussion parliament.—There were also some other
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topics not alluded to in the speech, to which should call the attention of their lordships. He would say nothing at present of the expeditions which sailed from the enemy's ports, two of which had committed such devastation in the West Indies; but he could not be silent on the subject of the expeditions which had been fitted out from this country. One of these remained three months in the Downs—a delay perfectly inexplicable to him, but for which however it was possible ministers, when the subject came to be discussed, might be able to adduce sufficient reasons. Causes had been assigned for this delay by rumour which could scarcely become the subject of debate in that house, but to which he could not avoid alluding. It had been said that difficulties had arisen in consequence of the appointment of an officer to the chief command of a rank inferior to that from which officers for commands in chief were usually taken. This was a point which he could not argue in that house, but when such men as general Spencer, and sir Arthur Wellesley, officers who had been engaged in service in almost every part of the world, were passed over in order to give a command to an officer of inferior rank, it naturally excited some surprise, and might not exactly accord with the feelings of officers of superior rank, who had been engaged in a variety of service; not that he meant to insinuate that the officer appointed to the command to which he had alluded was not perfectly fitted for that situation by talents and military. skill.—He would next come to the most material point alluded to in the speech from the throne. With respect to the disasters winch had fallen upon Prussia, he agreed with his noble friend, that there could be but one feeling in the house. With respect to the cause of those disasters, it was impossible that any two men could differ. It arose from the narrow policy in which Prussia had. Encircled herself. Had his Prussian majesty, or those who advised him, consulted history, they would have discovered that they who lent their aid to have others devoured, would be at last devoured themselves. He approved as much as any of his majesty's ministers, of the proceedings which had been adopted towards Prussia on account of her unjust aggression upon Hanover, and the measures which she submitted to against the commerce of this country. He approved also of the manner in which we suspended our particular quarrel, when she

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was on the point of being involved with France, though he could not account for the delay which took place in communicating with her. No direct communication with. Prussia appeared to have taken place until hostilities were on the eve of commencing. This was to him a subject of great regret. He lamented that a communication with her had not been opened sooner; that no disposition had been manifested to assist or encourage her, when it was evident that a war between her and France was not to be avoided. It was not until October that ministers had though proper to endeavour to open a communication with Prussia, and the noble lord (Morpeth), to whom they confided this important mission, than whom they could not have selected one more proper, was, from the unhappy events which occurred, unable to fulfil it. They afterwards thought proper to send out a military mission, at th head of which was a noble lord(Hutchinson), a member of that house. This, however was not until 3 weeks after the return of the noble person who had preceded him at a time when it was uncertain whether this expensive military mission would be able to discover the Prussian head-quarters or even find out; a port to land in. As to the negociation, he should say nothing upon it, until the papers were laid before parliament. Whatever difference of opinion might exist as to particular parts of it, with respect to the main question there could be but one general and unanimous sentiment, and that was to concur in giving h majesty every support, that should enable him to prosecute the war with vigour and effect. As to the address proposed by his noble friend, it; was not his intention to give it any opposition. He assented to it, because it did not pledge their lordships to any of those points, which might possibly become the subject of future enquiry.
Lord Grenville rose,and spoke to t following effect:—In asking your lordship to support the address which has just been moved, I must begin by assuring your lordships, that if I claim for it that general approbation which I am confident it will obtain in this house, and throughout the whole country, it is precisely because it is free from that sort of ambiguity which the noble lord who just sat down has more than insinuated it possesses. The address has been conceived in terms which must appear to every one unobjectionable, and no conduct would, in my opinion, be more unworthy
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than attempt to entrap this house, if such an attempt could ever be successful, into a general approbation of the past conduct of government, or a promise to support future measures without due deliberation. But in fact this address pledges your lordships to nothing but what appears plainly on the face of it, and contains nothing which can preclude that free, fair, and impartial discussion, which ought to. take place on every great public question. when. I have said this much, I think I have answered every word the noble lord has uttered in relation to the subject of the address. With respect to the other topics to which the noble lord has alluded, if I can feel any difficulty in answering them, it is not on account of any argument which has been founded upon them, but from the impossibility of comprehending how they can be brought to bear on the present question. However,.laying that consideration aside, since the noble baron has thought it to introduce these subjects, and has pressed them so strongly on your lordships' attention, I shall take the liberty of just briefly noticing them. The first point, in the order of the noble baron's speech, was a proposition which I was surprised to hear come from the mouth of any noble lord in this house, namely, that you should discuss whether his majesty had been well or ill advised in dissolving the last parliament? I do not, my lords, mean to say that the advisers of the crown are not responsible for the advice they give, and that their conduct is not. at all times liable to be questioned by parliament ; but this I do say, that if there be any one branch of the royal prerogative on which your lordships ought to exercise a peculiar reserve, it is that which relates to the dissolution of parliament. When, however, the noble lord objected to that measure, I did expect that he would have stated some reasons to prove that it was improper, before he thought of putting it on his majesty's ministers, to vindicate it. I shall not dispute the noble lord's chronology, the accuracy of which I am, however, not altogether disposed to admit. The noble baron, after a very solemn declaration of the inestimable value to the constitution of the prerogative vested in his majesty of dissolving parliament, and of the free indisputable right which his majesty has to exercise that right at all times, has not scrupled to enter into a long detail of reasons why the prerogative ought not to have been exercised, as it has recently

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been exercised by his majesty. I should have been surprised at any noble lord in the house standing up in his place to question the exercise of a prerogative so clearly inherent in his majesty, and so indubitably useful; but that a noble baron should after a preface so magnificent as to the value of this prerogative, of its sacred quality, of its being above all question—make a direct charge against his majesty's ministers for having advised the exercise of it, is really what I cannot reconcile with any rules of rational conduct. For myself, sacred as I hold every prerogative of the crown, I feel that his majesty's servants are answerable for the advice which they give his majesty for the exercise, or for abstaining from the exercise of every one of them. In no case do I conceive the exercise of this undoubted prerogative to have been more wise, more salutary, or more attentive, on the part of his majesty, to the feelings of his people, than the dissolution which lately took place. When a negociation, by which his majesty's endeavour to restore the blessings of peace, not merely to the people of Great Britain, but to the nations of Europe, had failed, it was surely a wise measure in his majesty to appeal to the sense of his people, to refer to them the conduct of his servants, and thereby to call upon them to pronounce, in the eyes of the world, their sense as to the further prosecution of the contest. If at any moment of our history the exercise of this prerogative was wise, proper and discreet, it was upon the late occasion, and the empire has gained this great and important advantage from the measure, that the degree of unanimity which has been manifested by the people from one end of the united kingdom to the other on the subject of the war, on the determination to persevere in the struggle, on the necessity of vigorous exertions, and in the approbation of the steps which have been taken by his majesty's servants, has given strength, confidence, and spirit to the government; and has given a noble example to the world of the vigour of a people who understand the blessings of independence, and who are determined to maintain it. But the noble baron, after disclaiming all intention, of disputing the right of his majesty to exercise his prerogative at all times, without question, has not scrupled to say that, with the exception of one solitary instance, it has not been exercised since the year 1715, at shorter intervals than 6 years. I am
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inclined to doubt the accuracy of the noble baron's chronology. I think that, upon looking back, lie will find himself deceived in his calculation. But, however that may be, the fact of dissolution at periods of 6 sessions, would totally destroy the reasoning of the noble baron ; for if his majesty can thus dissolve unquestioned at the end of 6 sessions, when the legal period of the parliament is 7 years, he may as well exercise the right at the end of 4 sessions. Or, on the other hand, if his majesty, or rather his ministers, are to be questioned when this prerogative is exercised oftener than at intervals of six sessions, then the prerogative is no longer of the quality which the noble baron has extolled so highly—a prerogative to be freely used at all times when his majesty judges it necessary to the well-being, or to the safety of the constitution. The noble baron's reasoning is not at all in unison with his facts, and I think that if the noble lord will refresh his memory, he will find that his facts are not entirely in unison with history. Does not the noble lord know that there has been such a notion as triennial parliaments since the period he quoted? and does he not happen to know that last year, it was in the contemplation of a government with which he was personally connected, to dissolve the parliament at the end of three years ?—(hear ! hear !) This I have heard, and I have reason to believe that the rumour is well-founded. The noble baron next adverted to something which he wondered at not finding in the king's speech. Something, it seems, he thinks should have been said on the improvement of the military force of the country. I am at a loss to conceive what the noble baron could have expected to be stated on this subject. The wise measures which were adopted it the last session, have been followed up with success throughout the country, and nothing is now wished, but that the present parliament would permit the full and free operation of the laws which have already been made. It is this proper and necessary perseverance which the country expects from parliament. With regard to the measures which were repealed by the last parliament, it was a complaint against them, whether well or ill founded I have not now to consider, that they were in general inefficient; and it was admitted, that if they did occasionally add to our military force, it was at the expence of those principles and resources

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on which the permanent strength of the country rests. The measures, however, which were proposed as the substitutes of those which have been repealed, are not of this temporary nature, and are not to be judged by the success of the moment. With regard to the plan for limited service, it will be recollected, that when it came under the consideration of your lordships, A did not hold out any expectation of great immediate advantages being derived from it. I then said of that important measure, that it never would have its full effect until the sight of a soldier impressed upon the peasant's mind the idea of a service for 7 years, instead of a bondage for life. In this opinion I still remain, and I must now say, that whether it has yet been successful or not, he knows little of human nature, and entertains views much too narrow for a. statesman, who founds any argument on the result of the operation of this measure within the few months since it began to be carried into effect ; but the house will recollect what was the effect of the measure which was repealed, to make way for the plan of limited service When its inefficiency was objected to at the end of 9, of 12, and even of 18 months, we were still desired to wait, and assured that its operation was only commencing, and would rapidly improve, Is it not rather singular then, that we should now, at the end of a few month only, be called upon to give an account of the success of the plan for limited service? But the merit of that plan rests upon quite another ground, and it is of no importance to form an average calculation of its result or to enquire whether it has produced more men in one month than in another.— I shall proceed now to the next topic; for the noble lord has favoured us with a long table of contents, of the various chapter which are to be brought into discussion in the course of the session. It seems, we are to be asked, whether the military force for the defence of this country, is not now less than it was at some former period. I do not understand, however, how the noble lord proposes to view this question If we mean, by the force for the defence, of the country, the number of troops in this island, that number, it is obvious ought to depend not upon the amount o our disposeable force, but upon the prudent use which. may be made of it. A greater number of troops might be necessary for home defence under other circum-
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stances; but if the noble lord wishes to institute a comparison with respect to the general force of the British empire, I can assure him, that that force is at this moment larger than it ever was at any former period. With respect to the volunteers, I am far from concurring with the noble lord in the observations he has made on that description of force. The regulations which were adopted for that description of force, were calculated for its improvement, and I cannot admit, that any thing which has been done by parliament, has had a tendency to damp their spirits, or check their patriotic ardour. The noble baron has remarked, that he has not beard of the Training bill having been any where put in force, if he means by put in force, that the men are not yet trained, it certainly, according to his ideas, is not in force, for the preparatory measures must necessarily occupy a considerable time before the training can commence; and I am sure, that to any one who is acquainted with the nature of the militia laws of this country, the delay, which is unavoidable in a measure of this kind, can create no surprise. The act, however, has begun to operate; and I can assure the noble lord, that there is not a corner of the country in which it has not already been acted upon.— The next topic which the noble lord adverted to, was very remarkable. He thinks that his majesty should have been advised to tell you (an advice, by-the bye, which I think his majesty would not have been easily prevailed upon to adopt) that a French fleet had escaped from a port of France, and returned safely to that country. In point of fact, no French fleet has returned safe to port, and I am therefore at a loss to conceive why the noble lord should wish his majesty to make such a declaration. As to the escape of the French squadron, to which the noble lord alluded, from port, I shall not enter into any discussion upon that point ; but if he asks what measures were taken to intercept it, I will tell him that every exertion was made for that purpose. Can the noble lord point out any time at which a French fleet ever was so vigilantly pursued, either with respect to the total amount of the force, or to the number of detachments employed against it? If no instance of equal exertion to overtake an enemy's squadron can be found, this chapter of his enquiries will not suit the purpose of the noble lord in a future period of the-session.

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But his majesty has sent out expeditions at an improper season of the year! The noble lord, perhaps, wishes that his majesty should tell him why and where he has sent these expeditions; for until he is made acquainted with those circumstances, all his arguments respecting the period of sailing can have no weight. The noble lord has also objected to the appointment of certain commanders of these expeditions; but I must appeal to him, whether he really thinks that a subject which is fit to be discussed in this house? Would it be becoming or constitutional in your lordships to enter into an investigation of the talents of certain officers, and to enquire whether A, B, or C ought to be appointed to a particular command? If, however, the objection of the noble lord is only to the rank, not to the want of experience or talents in the person to whom he has alluded (General Craufurd), it is certainly very ill founded ; peculiar circumstances in the life of that officer have precluded him from the rank to which, by his merit and services, he was justly entitled. If the noble lord thinks that it ought to be established as a principle, that none but officers holding a certain rank ought to have the command of an expedition, I would wish him to turn to the page of Wolfe or of Nelson. Had such a principle been regarded by my lord St. Vincent, we perhaps, should not this day have had to glory in the battle of the Nile. Is there any one in this house who will say that this or that officer in lord St. Vincent's fleet, who held a superior rank to lord Nelson, ought to have been sent in pursuit of the French expedition to Egypt, or give a vote of censure for the preference which was given to the hero, by whom the great victory of the Nile was achieved ? Let it not, therefore, be said, that the officer alluded to is unfit to command on account of his rank. I can venture to pledge myself that his appointment will never disgrace those by whom he was chosen, nor prove disadvantageous to any service on which he may be employed.—I must now take notice of what has fallen from the noble lord respecting Prussia. I assure him he is very much misinformed if he supposes that, previous to the mission of lord Morpeth, there existed any means of communication between this country and Prussia. This assurance I must repeat so as not to be misunderstood : from the moment of his majesty's Declaration against Prussia, until lord Morpeth proceeded to the continent, there
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remained for his majesty's government no means of communicating or of acting in concert with Prussia. At the same time, had there been any disposition in the court of Berlin to communicate with this country, means were not wanting fur that purpose on its part. The Prussian minister was encouraged to stay until the .em I of August, when he was recalled by his court purposely that the communication through him might no longer exist. The noble lord then surely does not mean that we ought to have sent a minister to Prussia, when we knew there was no disposition in the cabinet of that country to receive him. The plain fact is,that Prussia had gone on from year to year, from month to month, and at last from week to week under the same illusion as to her safety from France, and still pursuing the same selfish policy, until she found that she was placed in a situation of the most imminent danger. Then she displayed as much precipitancy as she had before evinced of indifference to the fall of Europe, and acted with that want of caution which had brought on all her disasters. If I state this much respecting Prussia, it is not for the purpose of reproaching that power, nor for drawing a parallel between her conduct and that of other countries. But as observations on this subject have been made for the purpose of withdrawing the confidence of the people of this country from his majesty's ministers, it becomes a duty I owe to my own character, and to the character of those with whom I act, to throw off all disguise, and to avoid those imputations which concealment only could sanction. At the first moment when there appeared a serious disposition in Prussia to co-operate with Russia against the common enemy, his majesty's ministers thought it their duty to shew that this country would not be wanting in fidelity to its ally, or in any efforts which might be advantageously made for the support of the general safety of Europe. —But with this subject I have done, except as to one point, which I feel I ought to advert to in justice to the character of others. It has been asked, why lord Morpeth was not sent on his mission until October, or if it was right rot to send him until then, why did he rot remain—why did he return in November? Why he was not sent until October, I think I have already sufficiently explained; and as to the reason of his return, I must ask, why ought he to have remained? The king of Prussia did not remain, his army did not

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remain. Is it thought that lord Morpeth ought, merely for the glory of the affair, to have staid on the field of battle? The fact however, is, that not only before the battle of Jena, but even after it, lord Morpeth found it impossible to get any satisfactory answer from the king of Prussia or his ministers on the subject of his mission.—With respect to the late negotiation at Paris, the noble lord has, I think, very properly declined to enter into any discussion on it. He was right in abstaining from any observations on a subject which will soon come regularly under the consideration of parliament ; and I am perfectly disposed to follow his example. All I shall say is, that I, am fully convinced there is not one individual in or out of parliament by, whom peace is desired on any other terms but those which shall be honourable to the country itself, and strictly consistent with that fidelity. which we owe to our allies, If this proposition be true, as I conceive it is, then I rely, for the justification of his majesty's government, on the conclusion to be drawn from its application to thy papers which will soon be laid on the table. Whatever inclination some persons may evince; whatever efforts may be made to place his majesty's servants in an unfavourable light, and to produce false impressions respecting their conduct, I am sure there now prevails throughout the country a union of sentiment and feeling hitherto unexampled in any nation. The people are convinced that the times art critical, and that the dangers they have to encounter are great; but they are also convinced that it is only by their own valour and resolution that these dangers can be averted. They are convinced, by, contemplating the rain of that great fabric whose demolished fragments are now employed to injure us, that it is only by energy and firmness that this country can be saved from a similar ruin; they are convinced, that it is not by yielding to their enemy, but by resistance, that they can have any chance of salvation; they are convinced, that if, after all their efforts, they should at last sink under the contest, the would, even then, have the satisfaction of avoiding the self reproaches which those must feel, who, while they were degrading, and humbling themselves before their enemy, returned nothing but insults an, aggressions where conciliation and gratitude was due, and yet, notwithstanding all their shameful submissions and humiliations,
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have not the less been overwhelmed and trampled on by the common foe of Europe. To have fallen after a manful and honourable struggle, would have been glorious to Prussia, but her conduct will never be imitated by this country, which, in spirit as well as resources, is fully competent to the contest in which she is engaged.
Lord Hawkesbury,in explanation, begged leave to observe, that not a word had fallen from him in the least disrespectful to lord Morpeth: on the contrary, he had the highest opinion of that noble lord's merits; and was fully convinced that in the execution of his mission he had, used every endeavour that, was compatible with the nature of his instructions.
The Earl of Radnor rosejust as the question was about to be put, to suggest that a clause or an amendment should be incorporated in the address, for the purpose of expressing how much their lordships condoled with his majesty, in consequence of the loss his majesty's family had recently sustained on the continent, by the lamented death of that illustrious man, their near relation, the duke of Brunswick. This was a mark of respect, which he thought due to the royal family.
Lord Grenvillesaid, that the subject to which the noble earl had alluded had already been under his consideration, and he had consulted the Journals in order to be satisfied how he ought to act, and he was convinced that such a proceeding as that suggested would be contrary to the usage of parliament. From his examination it appeared, that there was no instance of an address of condolence being presented to the sovereign on the death of a relative not born in this country, except one to queen Anne, on the decease of her husband, prince George of Denmark; but that was a particular case. It was of importance that the usual ceremonial of parliament should not be departed from; for if an address was in the present instance resorted to, the exclusion of others from a similar compliment would appear a sort of disrespect.
The Earl of Radnorsaid he was perfectly satisfied, since he knew that his majesty's ministers had considered the subject. He was only afraid it might have escaped their attention.
The question was then put on the motion for an address, which was carried nemdiss., and a committee was appointed to prepare and bring in the same. The com-

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mittee retired pro.formâ, and returned with the address, which, being adopted by the house, was ordered to be presented to his majesty to-morrow, by the lords with white staves.—On the motion of lord Grenville, lord Walsingham was reappointed chairman of the committees of the house.—Lord Grenville gave notice, that on Monday next he would move the thanks of the house to sir John Stuart, and the troops under his command, for the glorious victory obtained by them in Calabria.