Lords Sitting of 19 June 1805

Minutes
Lord Glenbervie, accompanied by several members, delivered a message from the commons, purporting, that the committee of that house, on which the permission of their lordships for the attendance of the viscount Sidmouth, and the earl of Buckinghamshire, had been requested, having closed the hearing of evidence, and made their report, the necessity for such attendance, on the part of those noble lords, no longer existed.—Mr. Alexander presented the Seamen's Encouragement bill, and the London Port Improvement bill, which, with several private bills, recently brought up, were severally read a first time.—The bills upon the table were forwarded in their respective stages. Among these the Irish Paper Duty bill, the English and Irish Militia Pay bills, and the Militia Adjutants' bills severally went through committees of the whole house, and the reports were received.—In the committee on the General Turnpike Road bill. The duke of Norfolk objected to one of its leading provisions. By the former act, a moiety of certain monies, levied for offences under the act, was granted to the informer. In the present bill, the whole money was appropriated to the repair of the roads, which would deprive the informer of his principal
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motive for acting. He, therefore, proposed an amendment, tending to restore the provision of the former act, in that respect, sense of the committee, was, on the question being put, negatived without a division. The report of the bill was ordered to be received to-morrow.—A petition from sir John Johnstone, bart. claiming the title of marquis of Annandale, &c. was presented, and referred, by their lordships, to the consideration of the committee of privileges.—The house resolved into a committee on Morris' divorce bill, when several amendments were made by the omission of certain clauses.—The stipendiary curates bill went through a committee of the whole house, and was ordered to be reported to-morrow.
[Conduct Of Judge Fox.—Lord Grenville seeing a noble secretary of state in his place observed, that he rose in consequence of his understanding the noble lord had given notice of his intention to bring in a bill to continue the proceedings in the case of Mr. Justice Fox, until the next session of parliament. He rose to trouble their lordships with a very few observations upon the subject. He was aware he was not perfectly in order, but his sense of the intended proceeding was so strong, that he seized the first opportunity he had of saying a few words upon it. The proposed measure, in his opinion, would tend to a material alteration of the whole frame and constitution of the parliament of this country. He hoped full time would be allowed for the consideration of a question of such great importance; a question of no less moment than whether they should now, for the first time since parliament existed, enact by a law, that the king should not have the power by his prerogative of putting an end to motions, discussions, and bills, which might be pending in both houses of parliament. As far as he had been able to inform himself upon the subject, there was no instance upon record of continuing from session to session, bills, or the deliberative proceedings of the legislature. His lordship adverted to a solemn decision, which had been given with respect to the point by both houses, on a particular occasion. With respect to election committees, where the proceedings were continued, the case was quite different, as such made a separate tribunal, the proceedings of which were within itself, and were so constituted by a special law, and for a particular purpose. He concluded by

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again expressing his hope, that full notice would be given of the intended discussion of a measure of such great and peculiar importance.
Lord Hawkesbury observed, that no proceeding should obtain with respect to the subject adverted to by the noble baron, which would indicate any intention on his part of taking the house by surprise. He was, however, rather obliged to the noble lord for giving his general opinion at so early a period upon the point, though it was done in a way, perhaps, contrary to the forms of that house. Of the intended discussion, the noble baron might be assured, ample notice should be given. He could not say that he coincided with the opinion thrown out. He saw the point in a different light. It should be recollected, that a great difference existed between a legislative and a judicial proceeding of that house; and he conceived in that view of the subject what he proposed could very properly be done. Added to this, the case was perfectly a novel one, and the house would rather have to form a precedent. With respect to the other house of parliament, a case occurred which, he seemed to think, bore a similitude to what he had suggested: he meant the case of sir Thomas Rumbold, wherein, with reference to a bill of pains and penalties, it was proposed to continue the proceedings. With respect to his intended bill, he should propose shortly to bring it in, have it printed for the perusal and consideration of their lordships, and, with respect to the discussion which might take place on the question for the second reading, the noble lord might depend upon it, that ample notice should be given.

Message From The King.
Lord Hawkesbury delivered the following message from his majesty:
"George R.—His majesty thinks proper to acquaint the house of lords, that the communications which have taken place, and are still depending, between his majesty and some of the powers on the continent, have not yet been brought to such a point as to enable his majesty to lay the result of them before the house, or to enter into any further explanation with the French government, consistently with the sentiments expressed by his majesty at the opening of the present session. But his majesty conceives that it may be of essential importance that he should have it in his power to avail himself of any favourable conjuncture for giving effect to such a concert with other powers, as may afford the best means of resisting the inor-
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dinate ambition of France or may be most likely to lead to a termination of the present contest, on grounds consistent with the permanent safety and interests of his Majesty's dominions, and the security and independence of Europe. His majesty therefore recommends it to the house of lord to consider of making provision for enabling his majesty to take such measures and enter into such engagements as the exigencies of affairs may require. G. R."
Lord Hawkesbury then moved, that his majesty's message be taken into consideration to-morrow. Agreed to.—Adjourned.