Lords Sitting of 29 January 1805

WAR WITH SPAIN.
Lord Mulgraveobserved, that, having learned from the recent votes of the other house of parlt.
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that certain documents, in addition to those already produced, were deemed essential to the due illustration of the question of hostilities with Spain; and as his anxious wish was to bring that important subject as fully to the consideration of parliament; and to the view of the public, as the case would admit of, he deemed it his duty to make farther inquiries upon the point, in order to learn what farther papers may be necessary. He doubted not he should have it in command from his maj. to produce the documents to which he alluded; they could not, however, be got ready or selected before Thursday, or perhaps before Friday, when it was probable he should have the honour of presenting them to their 1dps. In that view of the case, it was evidently impossible the discussion of the general question could be gone into on Thursday next, as proposed. He should, therefore, propose to discharge the order which at present stood for summoning their 1dps. upon that day, for the purpose of naming a subsequent day. In selecting this, another consideration was to be kept in view. Though he greatly wished to afford full time for the consideration of the documents in question, yet the consideration of having the case decided upon by parliament, with as little delay as its nature would admit, in order that the public mind may be set at rest upon the subject, operated with him very strongly. In that view, he should propose Thursday se'nnight as a proper day for taking the whole into consideration. He observed, that the papers which it was probable he should have occasion to produce, were not comparatively of the importance as those presented in the first instance. His 1dp. concluded, by moving that the order for summoning the lords on Thursday next be discharged,—This communication, and its result, gave rise to a conversation of rather an irregular and desultory nature. On the question being put,
Lord Grenvilleshortly expressed his coincidence in the idea of its being proper that every information should be given relative to a subject of such importance as that in question, but that due time should be given for its full consideration. He was however sorry the day suggested by the noble lord had been selected; as he understood a noble friend of his had come down that day with the intent of giving notice of a motion on a subject of considerable importance on. Thursday se'nnight
Earl Darnleysaid, it was his intention, to move to discharge the order for his motion on Monday next, with a view of proposing it for Thurdsday se'nnight. He wished at the same time to observe, that he did not intend to make any motion with respect to the general state of the army; to that task he did not think himself competent. He should merely confine himself to moving the repeal of the additional force act, which he still contended had operated as a tax, and had operated partially and unjustly. He concluded by moving to discharge the order for Monday.
Lord Hawkesburythought it would be better not to fix any day for the discussion of the question respecting the war with Spain until the additional papers were laid upon their 1dps table.
Lord Mulgraveassured the house of his anxiety to have the subject fully before their 1dps., and to allow full time for its discussion; at the same time he must deprecate, with a reference to the great importance of the question, any proceedings which might interfere with its discussion on a day which might probably be proposed as convenient for that purpose.
Lord Grenville,in explanation, adverted to the competence of any noble lord to move for a summons of the house on any given day. He deemed the opposition which noble lords, over against him, seemed inclined to give to the intended motion of his noble friend, for summoning the house for Thursday se'nnight, as rather extraordinary, even under the circumstances of the case; the option, however, certainly rested with his noble friend.
The Earl of Carlisledeemed the opposition which the noble lords in office seemed inclined to give to the discussion of his noble friend's intended motion on Thursday, as most extraordinary, even on their own grounds. They professed their anxious wishes to have the subject fully understood and considered: why not then appoint a later day? Friday, for instance. He saw no necessity whatever for positively fixing Thursday.
Earl Camden,shortly adverted to the great importance of the Spanish question, on the grounds alleged by his noble friends on this bench with him; at the same time, he admitted it to be more regular and consonant to the orders and practice of the house, not to propose any particular day, until the papers were upon the table.
Lord Hawkesbury,in explanation, ad-
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verted to the anxious wish of his noble friend to have a subject of so great importance fully considered and discussed. He did not mean to say the proposition of the noble earl was not of considerable positive importance, but he thought, its discussion should not interfere with the decision of parliament, upon a topic of such peculiar importance as that previously submitted to its consideration.
Lord Mulgravethanked his noble friend for adverting to his anxiety to have the subject alluded to fully considered and discussed; but he had forgotten his second consideration, which was one that equally operated upon his mind, namely, the propriety of having the question decided upon, with as little delay as the nature of the case would admit, in order, principally, that the public mind should be set at rest upon the subject.
Lord Kingobserved, that he saw not the least necessity for selecting the day chosen by his noble friend, as that for the discussion of the Spanish question. By what fell from a noble secretary, it appeared, that the papers which remained to be produced were, comparatively, of no great importance; in that case, wiry should not an earlier day be fixed for the discussion? If the remaining papers were of importance, and necessary to the due understanding of the subject, ministers were deserving of censure for not bringing them forward in the first instance.
Earl Darnleythen moved, that their 1dps. be summoned for Thursday se'nnight for the consideration of the repeal of the defeuce act. Ordered. — Adjourned till Thursday.