Lords Sitting of 4 February 1805

ADDITIONAL FORCE BILL.
Lord Hawkesbury,by command of his majesty, presented certain military accounts and documents, chiefly respecting the levies under the additional force act, which were ordered to lie on the table.
Earl Darnleythereupon rose, and expressed himself not particularly desirous to agitate the proposition of which he had given notice on Thursday next. He should therefore move, that the order for summoning their ldps. upon Thursday next be discharged, and that an order for a similar purpose be made for a future day, which, in consideration of some important matter being proposed by a noble friend of his for Monday, he should propose to be on tomorrow se'nnight. The noble earl accordingly moved that the lords be summoned for that day.
Lord Hawkesburywished it to be understood, that the arrangement just proposed by the noble earl did not proceed from any thing wished for by his maj.'s ministers in that house; it would prove no sort of accommodation to them, as, if the proposition the noble earl had given notice of, was to be discussed distinctly from the subject of the general military state of the country, it was a matter of indifference to them when it was agitated.—While on his legs, the noble secretary requested a noble lord, then in his place (King), to give him an idea of the nature of his intended motion on Monday, as he had stated it so generally in the first instance, that he could not satisfactorily comprehend its object.
Lord Kingprofessed himself willing to give the information desired by the noble secretary. His intended motion was for the production of an account of the monies remitted to Ireland on account of the governments of both countries, under the new arrangement, the object of which, he understood, was a reduction of the rate of the exchange between this country, and Ireland.

WAR WITH SPAIN.
Lord-Grenvillesaid, that although he was prepared to
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come to a discussion of the Spanish rupture, on the information which he had obtained from those papers which his maj.'s ministers, after 2 months consideration, had laid before parliament, and which they, no doubt, conceived sufficient for the full understanding of the subject; he must confess that he was glad that the additional papers had been brought down, as they had contributed to throw more light on the question. There were still many chasms in the correspondence, which he was anxious to see filled up, and which, no doubt, ministers would feel it to be their duty to communicate to the house. In Mr. Frere's letter to lord Hawkesbury, of the 5th March, 1804, he stated the subject of a conversation he had with the prince of peace on the morning of that day, and of his having been referred by him to M. Cevallos, for the communication of the treaty which had been concluded between Spain and France, relative to the neutrality of the former country. No traces of what had passed in that conference appeared in the papers which had been laid before the house. As the object of that conference was of the utmost moment, he must suppose that Mr. Frere had felt it to be his duty to communicate it to his govt.; and the information which that communication would afford, he thought, was very necessary, previous to the discussion of the subject. There were also 3 notes written on the 23d and 24th of Feb. by Mr. Frere to M. Cevallos, and answered by the latter on the 27th, of which he wished copies or extracts should be laid before their ldps.: they were alluded to in M. D'Anduaga's letter of the 30th March last to lord Hawkesbury. He would how move the first of his series of motions.—Before the question was put on the noble lord's motion.
Lord Hawkesburysaid, that it was not the intention of ministers to withhold any information which could with propriety be granted; he wished, however, that the noble lord would not press his motion at present, but allow govt. time to consider which of the papers it would be in their power to produce; they would be able to do that by to-morrow.
Lord Grenvillesaid, it would be extremely inconvenient for him to come down to-morrow; however, if ministers could not make up their minds immediately, he must be under the necessity either of attending to-morrow, or of getting some other noble lord to move for him.
Lord Mulgravesaid, that it had been his duty to make the selection of the papers which had been laid before parliament, from a very voluminous correspondence; and as no part of the negotiation had been conducted by him, he could not be supposed to be as fully master of the subject as the noble lord who lately filled the situation, which was now unworthily filled by him. Possibly, some papers might have been omitted, which should have been produced. All he could say, was, that if his noble friend would favour him with a list of the papers he intended to move for, he would come to a determination as to whether they could or ought to be laid before the house by to-morrow.
Lord Grenvilleobserved, that he could not refuse acceding to the noble lord's proposal. He would put the list of motions into the noble sec.'s hands, and trust to his honour and discretion to produce such of them as he should think necessary to be made public.
Lord Mulgraveexpressed his obligations to his noble friend, and said, that he would take care to apprise him, in the course of the morning, how far his motions could be complied with.
Lord Grenvillesaid, he would state, for the satisfaction of the house, what the papers were which he thought should be laid before their ldps. He wished, exclusive of those which he had already mentioned, that the answers which had been returned by lord Hawkesbury, to the different letters of M. d'Anduaga, should be brought forward. The document, however, which he was the most anxious to obtain, was the information imparted to lord Harrowby by M. d'Anduaga, respecting the armaments at Ferrol, as upon that would depend the propriety of the orders for the capture of the Spanish frigates. Although that information might have been verbally communicated, it was to be presumed, notwithstanding, that his noble friend had made some minute of the conversation for the information of the other members of the administration. If that were not so, it would yet be practicable to give their ldps. the information besought, by applying to his noble friend in the same way that information had been obtained from Mr. Frere, respecting a point on which there was some doubt. He wished also to obtain a copy of such answer, if any, as had been made to M. d'Anduaga's letter of the 22d Dec. He wished also for a copy
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of M. Cevallos' note of the 27th Feb; 1804 to Mr. Frere, and which he supposed there could be no objection to furnish; for what was proper for him to receive, Could not be considered as improper to be laid before parliament. The noble lord made no motion, but handed the list of motions to the noble secretary of state.—Adjourned.