Lords Sitting of 2 April 1805

MINUTES.
Counsel were farther heard relative to the Scotch appeal, Cathcart v. the earl of Cassilis, viz. Mr. Adam as leading counsel for the respondent.—The bills upon the table were forwarded in their several stages.—Lord Hawkesbury moved the first, reading of the militia enlisting bill, and that the bill be printed, which were ordered accordingly. His lordship then moved that the said bill be read a second time on Thursday next, and that the lords be summoned for that day.—Ordered.

STANDING ORDER.
Lord Mulgravegave notice, that he Should, on Monday next, move to have the Order relative to the house resolving into a committee on the motion of any noble peer, taken into consideration. To this he was principally induced, by what took place last night; and, on account of the constructions which were put upon the order in question, in the course of the debate. Such an order was, he thought, inconsistent with the dignity of their lordships' proceedings, and might be productive of the highest inconvenience, admitting it to empower any lord at his pleasure, thereby to constitute himself a majority of the house; and, even when the most important public business might be regularly under Consideration, to oblige the house to go into a committee. An order construed so as to operate in that way, was so objectionable in every point of view, that it should not be suffered to remain a moment longer than was necessary. He concluded by moving that the lords be summoned for Monday next.
Earl Spencerobserved, that though the noble secretary had not stated the nature of his intended, motion, yet it might, in some degree, be conjectured. As to the degree of inconvenience which that or any other standing order might induce, he should not then offer an opinion. He, however, could not avoid remarking, that the noble lord's idea, that "under the operation, of the order alluded to, any peer might constitute himself, in effect, a majority of the house," would be an argu-

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ment for the abrogation of every standing order in the book.
Lord Mulgraveacknowledged, he had not been sufficiently explicit in terms, as to the nature of his intended motion; but, when he had expressed his disapprobation of the order, in so marked a manner, he thought no doubt could arise as to his intention. However, he should now give a specific notice, that it was his intention to move, on Monday next, that the order in question be expunged.
The Lord Chancellormade some observations in support of what fell from his noble friend, relative to the effects and consequences of the order adverted to. He was adverse from its being considered as a standing order; its import and wording being different from all others of that description. In the way in which it was construed by some noble lords last night, it was the most inconsistent thing imaginable; for, in the event of the usual notice being given for its suspension, on any particular occasion, how could they know but any noble lord might, on the very day it was appointed to be considered, move the house to resolve into a committee? a proceeding which might be urged any moment while the order existed. An additional objection against the order was its general impracticability; because, were the order literally and fully enforced, their lordships, while in such committee, were required to sit, each in their proper places, according to their ranks and degrees; a proceeding which, in that new house, their lordships would find it rather difficult to carry into effect.
Earl Spencerobserved that, circumstanced as their lordships were at present, the proceeding adverted to would be totally impracticable. He recollected, that some time since, a commitee had been appointed to settle and arrange the proper seats for the respective orders of the peerage in that house; but no report had yet been made upon the subject; that committee should be referred to. In the house in which they formerly sat, the respective places were regularly arranged; every peer knew his proper place when it was necessary he should sit in it; but; in the present house, that being not yet settled, such a proceeding was impossible.
The Lord Chancellorspoke in explanation, and slightly adverted to the inconveniencies which must sometimes arise from too literal an enforcement of the or-
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ders; alluding to what had taken place last night, and its being contended that a standing order admitted of no debate, but that it should be immediately acted upon; he adverted to the inconsistency of such an idea, which went to prevent a noble and learned friend of his from demonstrating that it was impossible to comply, with the order in question.
Lord Mulgraveperfectly concurred in What had been thrown out by his noble friend on the woolsack. With respect to their lordships' being required by the order to sit in their Proper places respectively; he conceived it to mean that the barons should sit together on certain benches, the earls on other distinct benches, the dukes on others, and so on. This consideration was with him an additionally strong and forcible objection to the order, which may render it necessary that their lordships should, as at the word of command, arrange themselves in a species of military array, or fall into their respective ranks, like soldiers on the parade: but setting any thing like a ludicrous consideration of such a proceeding aside, it militated as well as other serious and more important objections, against the order.—The question was put, and their lordships ordered to be summoned for Monday next.—Adjourned.

MINUTES.
Lord Walsinghammoved for an Address to his Majesty to request a Copy of the Second Report of the Commissioners appointed to revise and digest the Civil Affairs of the Navy. Ordered.—The Irish Militia Service bill was read a second time, and committed for Monday the 14th inst.—The royal assent was given by Commission to the Expiring Laws bill and three private bills. The Commissioners were the lord chancellor, lord Walsingham, and lord Auckland.—The Cape of Good Hope Trade Regulation bill was read a third time and passed, and a message sent to the commons to acquaint them therewith.—A petition was presented from lord vise. Hawarden, claiming the Right of Voting at the Election for Representative Peers of Ireland, which was referred to the Committee of Privileges.—Adjourned to the 14th inst.