Lords Sitting of 13 December 1803

MIKUTES.—
The East India Bond Bill, the Seaman's Desertion Bill, and others, were read a third time and passed.—The Expiring Laws Bill, the Sugar Drawback Bill, &c. &c. were committed and reported.

BANK RESTRICTION BILL.—
Upon the motion for the third reading of the Bank Restriction Bill,
Lord Grenvillesaid, he had already expressed his surprise at this Bill having been read a second time, without notice, the day after it came up to that House. He thought, that on the whole, it was best at the present moment to continue the Bank Restriction; but this was not a step to be taken with indifference, or to be forwarded as a ma Her of course through its various stages; it was, on the contrary, a great evil; necessary, perhaps, in such a crisis as the present, but well worthy of the most serious attention of Parliament. It had been first proposed as a measure merely temporary, to meet a momentary but very alarming danger; as such it had, he thought, been highly beneficial. But it had been attended with the mischief inseparable from all measures of the same description. The fundamental principle of all governments on this subject ought to be, that credit and circulation, if undisturbed by legislative interference, will invariably find their own level. Whenever any temporary purpose (as must sometimes happen) induces a departure from this principle, the misfortune is, that the first deviation too commonly leads to the necessity of a second, and so necessarily, until it becomes almost impossible to tread back the same steps, or to revert to the only wise system of policy on the subject. So it happened in this case. The measure adopted in the first instance to meet a momentary purpose had afterwards been prolonged (perhaps unavoidably) till the conclusion of that war; and even now, though he lamented the effects of that prolongation, he hardly ventured to decide that the opinion of Parliament had in that instance been wrong. Next came the peace, so very like war, that its authors themselves had been afraid to depart from the war system; nor had he himself then opposed its renewal, convinced as he was, that the pretended state of peace was a real state of war in every thing, except in the power of providing for self-defence, and for the protection of our own interest. To venture such a step in the present moment, at least with-

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out much preparation, would doubtless be difficult and hazardous. Bat he was not equally convinced, that it was wise to declare beforehand that the restriction should continue during the whole of this war, entertaining, as he confessed he did, some doubt whether it ought to have been continued to the end of the last war, and still, more, whether it should be prolonged at the peace. He was afraid that there was now growing up in this country a most mistaken apathy on the subject. Many persons believed that the continuance or the restriction had hitherto produced no inconvenience, and that there was therefore no danger in prolonging it almost indefinitely. Both parts of this opinion were, he thought, extremely erroneous. Much evil, he was persuaded, had already been produced by the measure, however necessary at the time of its adoption; and every day's continuance augmented, in a rapid proportion, both the extent of the evil and the difficulty of its removal.—That, during the continuance of this measure, our paper circulation, both Bank and private paper, had infinitely increased, no man was ignorant of. He was afraid it might be shewn, that this was a necessary consequence of the measure it-self. The power of converting paper into cash at the will of the holder, was the only sale limitation that ever could exist upon the issue of paper, and, if left to its free operation, it was a limitation that might safely be relied on. All other limitations were arbitrary, depending on the uncertain speculations of individuals upon points which no speculations ever can decide with accuracy. It was said that, if the Bank had not increased its circulating paper since the restriction, no mischief can have arisen from it. No position can be more fallacious. In the first place, the Bank paper has in fact increased; but, even if this had not happened, the argument would still be of no weight. If private paper has during that period been greatly augmented, it is plain that the whole proportion of paper to cash in circulation has been changed, and that this change has equally taken place, whether the increase has arisen in Bank paper or in private paper. The restraint upon the Bank must necessarily give some increased encouragement to the issue of private paper, because, for private paper, cash may legally be demanded, for Bank paper it cannot; and if, by these or any other means, the proportion of private paper be much increased, there must obviously be less room for the circulation even for the same quantity as before of Bank paper; and
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there is therefore much more reason to apprehend that the issue is too large, when it appears that instead of remaining at the same amount, the quantity of Bank paper has also been very much increased. The actual increase of private paper, a fact which no one could dispute, was the particular circumstance to which Lord G. said, he principally wished to call the attention of the House.—"Paper (he said) now forms in this country the principal medium of circulation between man and man, not as formerly in commercial transactions only, but now in all the ordinary dealings of life. In times of perfect security and public confidence, even this might happen to a considerable extent without much inconvenience; and so long as the natural operations of demand and supply were allowed to control it, though some excess might occasionally take place, yet experience shewed, that any such evil would speedily correct itself. The tide might ebb and flow, but no permanent interruption would arise from it to the stream of national prosperity. The case is widely different now. We are called upon to provide against the danger of a sudden alarm, such as must arise it a country so long unused to the tread of a hostile foot should even fur the shortest interval become the theatre of war. But we are discharging this duty in a most inadequate and insufficient manner. We an? providing for the smaller evil, but seem wholly indifferent to the greater. We are guarding against the consequences of any sudden run upon the Bank in a moment of alarm; but we take no consideration of the effect of a similar alarm on that mass of private paper, which constitutes so much larger a proportion of the circulating medium of the country. The stability of the Bank has been guaranteed to its creditors by repeated parliamentary examinations; and when we restrain it by law from fulfilling its engagements with them, we have given a fresh pledge of public faith that they shall suffer no loss by that provision. But what will be the case of private paper? Let the House represent to itself the situation of a Bank, established perhaps in the very town to be first attacked, and the state of the surrounding district, whose circulation consists perhaps almost exclusively of that paper. What means will such a Bank possess to satisfy even the ordinary demands upon it? How much would those demands in such a case be increased? And what would be the state of such a district, if to all the other evils of war were added the sudden annihilation of its whole circulating

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medium? Already are we told from authority, that there appears in the country an eagerness to collect, or, as it is insidiously called, to hoard cash. In times of scarcity the ignorant are taught to clamour against the farmer and the cornfactor, who, by collecting and preserving grain, afford to a country its only security against famine. By the salutary provision of nature, the measures which individuals take in such cases for their own security and benefit, constitute in their aggregate the security and advantage of the community itself. In the same manner (it might appear paradoxical, but if a paradox, it was one which he held in common with ail enlightened writers on this subject) the best security against a total want of circulating medium in the time of our utmost need, would be found in the necessity, which persons in the middling classes of life already feel, of providing beforehand for such an occasion. How, indeed, could it be expected, that when a man of that description joins the volunteer ranks, and serves his country in the field, he should leave his family to rely entirely, and for their daily bread, on the paper of a private banker, whose counting-house may be at that very moment occupied by the enemy.—The steps taken by such individuals to make provision for this case, must then of necessity produce at this time an increased demand for specie; that demand will in this, as in every other article, produce an increased value; and, unless the nature of things be inverted, tire increased value must, in its turn, produce air increased supply. He was therefore beyond measure astonished to hear that, in some other place, this conduct in persons of such a description had been spoken of as a fit subject of reproach and censure; and that this opinion had proceeded from a quarter which ought to be of the highest authority in matters of this nature. Such language could have no other tendency in this case (as in that to which lie had already likened it) than to raise popular odium, and to excite popular tumult, against men who used their own discretion in disposing of their own property. If it were lit to censure such a disposition, it must be essential to endeavour to prevent it. There were two precedents in history which might be resorted to for this purpose: two cases where, in support of an excessive issue of paper, government had regulated by law the quantity of specie which each individual should be suffered to retain. Those were the Mississippi scheme, and the scheme of the assignats. In both
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instances the measure had immediately annihilated the paper it was intended to support. He had no fear that the same principle, by whatever authority it had been countenanced, would be acted upon to the same extent in this country but he must take the liberty to say, that, in so far as it was followed up, either in speech or action, exactly in that proportion the public credit was affected and injured by it. The danger of such a shock to private paper, as he had stated, in the case of invasion, was not to be guarded against by such language, which had no other tendency than to increase that danger. Neither was it one which, on the other hand, it was prudent or safe for us to overlook. The wretched policy of neglecting necessary precautions for fear of creating just alarm began now to be sufficiently understood. In every instance in which it was resorted to, it always would produce the same effects as had already been so fatally experienced from it. Yet, by the present bill, while we confess the nature of the danger, the slightest glance at the proportion which private paper bears to that of the Bank will shew how far we are from providing for its extent. Those who at all understand the subject, know that the Bank paper possesses a stability not to be shaken but by such a total subversion of the country as no Englishman wishes to survive. Yet we think ourselves obliged to protect even this corporation, resting on such immutable pillars of security, against the danger of sudden pressure from temporary alarm. Shall we then wholly overlook the private paper, so much greater in extent, and so much less secure in its stability? The ultimate security of the paper issued by the country banks now established in every corner of this island might be as perfect as that of the Bank itself The facility which they give in ordinary times to the commercial transactions of the country is unquestionable. But no man can look without the most serious apprehension at, the temporary effect which the first moment of actual invasion might produce on those, local establishments; at the extent to which such an evil might spread; or at the consequences which it might produce, in a country whose circulation is almost entirely composed of paper. To represent this danger to Parliament, even if no remedy for it occurred to the person stating it, would not only be a blameless, but a laudable and proper discharge of public duty. When the subject was brought under the consideration of Parliament and the public, if

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its importance engaged their attention, the wisdom and experience of men much more conversant than he pretended to be, would doubtless suggest every remedy or precaution which the nature of the case admitted; suggestions which might well escape the researches of individuals far superior to him in knowledge or ability. But if the subject should continue to be wholly disregarded, overlooked by negligence, or put out or sight by hopeless despondency, the evil would corns upon us at the last; it would overtake us in the midst of difficulty and distress, when precaution would be too late, and remedy impossible he therefore earnestly recommended, after the recess, if it could not be done before, that Committees might be named by Parliament, to take this subject into the most serious and attentive consideration. To such Committees it would naturally belong to suggest those remedies, which, on full discussion and consultation with men experienced in such matters, might appear most practicable and useful. Any suggestions of his would in the present moment be premature, and certainly must be in a great measure crude and undigested. Bat ho by no means despaired of seeing the most beneficial consequences result from such an investigation. Two objects it would naturally have in view. The first to reintroduce into the circulation of the country such a quantity of coin as might at least suffice for the ordinary dealings of life; that coin which was now vanished by the excessive issues of paper of all descriptions, no longer checked by the natural limitation, that of being immediately convertible into cash. The next object naturally would be, to provide, as far as possible, for the stability and credit, even during the existence of actual invasion, of such paper as would still continue to circulate. These objects would both of them, as he apprehended, best be obtained, by recurring, not suddenly nor abruptly, but by well considered gradations, and with every possible attendant precaution that the wisdom of man could devise, to that first principle by which alone paper issues can be limited, and on which it alone can securely rest, namely, the power of their immediate conversion into cash. He spoke on this subject with all the distrust of his own opinion, which lie ought to feel; but at least he spoke not without much consideration of the question; and the conviction of his own mind was, that this was the end to be kept invariably in view, to be accelerated as could be found consistent with prudence and due regard to public safety, and to be considered as the only fundamental cause of
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the evils now felt or apprehended. With respect to the paper, if resting on a solid foundation of ultimate solvency, it might be provided for by some mutual guarantee, so far removed from the scene of immediate alarm, as to place the security of the holder far beyond the reach of any danger merely local. He remembered to have heard it said many years ago by Mr. Burke, a man whose words and thoughts were well calculated to leave a lasting impression on their hearers, "That the effect of the system of credit in this country was such as to make the whole commercial and monied interest of Great Britain joint proprietors and co-partners in the whole mass of capital existing in the country." In some sense this was undoubtedly loose; and as these extensive interests had the benefit of such a partnership, so it must be added that they were not wholly-exempt from its risks. They had all an immediate interest in upholding the credit of all; and he did not despair, that, by examination and discussion, a system might be framed, in which the paper of individuals or private houses might, if resting on a sure and due foundation, be supported toga limited extent, by some extensive and reciprocal guarantee against the effects of sudden alarm; and to such a voluntary association, formed under the direction of Parliament, and countenanced by its authority, there might or might not be added, as should on the whole be judged expedient, some additional security from the intervention of the public. In his own mind, he had followed these ideas further, and pursued them into some detail; but he wished not to trouble the House at this time with any discussion of them. No man felt more strongly the difficulty and delicacy of the whole subject. No man more sincerely distrusted his own judgment upon it: but, impressed as he was with its importance, satisfied that if we were unprepared in this respect, ail naval and ail military preparation, however extensive, would be inadequate to the safety of the country; he had done his duty in calling the attention of Parliament to the question. He had no doubt that the danger of leaving it unexamined was infinitely greater than any danger that could, by any possibility, arise from the examination of it; and it would therefore be offering an insult to the understandings of the House, if he delayed them by any farther explanation of the motives with which he brought it forward. He could have no interest in increasing the public danger. If this evil could not be avoided, we must prepare ourselves to meet it with resolution. But such a shock as the

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sudden depreciation of the whole circulatory medium of a country, and this too in a moment of invasion, must, in its consequences, overwhelm all men, of whatever descriptions or situations in the country. He was confident that diligence, wisdom, and firmness, would avert this, and every other danger of the country: but this could only be done by ascertaining the nature and extent of the evils with which we were menaced. This bill was itself a proof that the subject of public credit was not thought unfit for public discussion, or incapable of parliamentary provision; and the matters he had now brought before the House were nothing else than different branches of the same extensive subject.
Lord Hawkesburythen rose, and spoke nearly as follows:—I rise, my lords, to offer some remarks in reply to what has fallen from the noble lord who has just sat down. In some of the general principles which he has stated, I most certainly cannot but agree with him, though I cannot concur in his application of them, in the present instance. And, indeed, in listening to some parts of his lordship's speech, it was difficult for me to recognize the words of one who had so great a shire in proposing this measure originally. That the proportion of paper in circulation to the amount of the specie ought to be left to find its own natural level, and that, except in some particular situations, it will, when left to itself, find its natural level, is a principal in political economy, that no one can be hardy enough in the present day to controvert. I agree, therefore, that legislative interference, or any sort of interference, ought, if possible, to be avoided; but at the same time circumstances may occur, and his lordship has admitted that this may be the case, when the good to be derived from such a measure far overbalances the evils that may be consequent upon it. When this bill was originally brought into Parliament, there were a few who were not at all convinced of the necessity of it; these, however, were but very few. Others were a ware of its magnitude and importance, yet still thought that, under the then circumstance, of menaced invasion, very like our present situation, a run upon the bank, in consequence of the alarm, might be attended with the most pernicious consequences, and therefore joined in giving their vote for the proposed restriction. I also had turned my attention to the subject, and I will fairly own that the difficulties with which it was surrounded pressed heavily on my mind, and one of the chief of these was, that a precedent might thus be established, which could in its consequences be attended with no be-
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neficial effects, I, however, upon mature deliberation, was convinced that under all the circumstances of the case, the restriction was necessary. It was afterwards thought expedient to continue the operation of the act during the whole course of the last war. At the close of the war the Government of the country thought it necessary, upon several grounds, that the restriction should be continued for one year, subsequent to the conclusion of the treaty of peace. But although I so far agree with the noble lord in the general principle, that it is proper to avoid all interference in those things, which, by their own natural operations, will find their just level, I am by no means prepared to admit that these consequences have resulted from the restriction upon the bank, which he has ascribed to it, or that such consequences are to be dreaded. It will, perhaps, be in the recollection of all, that previous to the last war, and four years before the original passing of this bill, the quantity of paper had increased to an enormous degree. This naturally arose from the extensive speculation and commercial enterprize of the country. These, along with the improvement in agriculture, the spirit of adventure, the riches and growing population of the nation brought a quantity of paper into circulation above its just proportion to the amount of cash. The very means by which our power and wealth were improved, therefore gave rise to a sort of artificial capital, which was certainly an evil, but an evil that must of necessity be endured, as it arose from such a cause. These, it evidently appeared, were the courses of the great proportion of paper in circulation, and to these causes the evil, if it were an evil, for there are considerable deferences of opinion on that point, is to be traced rather than to the operation of the bill in question. His lordship has adverted to what was said in another place, (the House of Commons) with respect to laying up cash at this time, or, as it has been generally called, hoarding, by a certain hon. gent, high in administration (Mr. Addington). I sincerely agree with the noble lord, and it has been, as he has stated it, the opinion of the most eminent and luminous writers on political economy, that laying up any commodity in times of a scarcity of that commodity, is a corrective of the scarcity. No one now that pretends to be at all conversant with the subject, but knows the ignorance of those popular clamours which in times of general scarcity are raised against the cornfactor and the farmer, who are, in fact, the only instruments by which countries visited with scarcity are preserved from absolute famine. But the noble lord has certainly mistaken the

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sense in which the words to which he alluded were applied. In another place, a censure, and a just censure, was meant to be cast upon those individuals, who were so defective in their patriotism as in the present moment to hoard up their money and keep it out of general circulation, from a want of confidence in the security of their country; and in this sense the words were certainly used. Though communities, such as the bank, upon which the credit of the country depended, ought certainly to keep as much cash as is adequate to the demands of the nation, and hoarding therefore is proper in them, the ca-e I apprehend is very different, as far as it respects individuals.—Now with respect to the proposals of the noble lord as to the appointment of a committee; the noble lord has not brought forward these in form, nor as objections to the present passing of the bill. I desire therefore to be understood, as not either according to, or absolutely denying the plan to which he has adverted I agree with him, that some particularly important evils may, even in times of danger and alarm, be brought forward under peculiar circumstances, and proposed to the consideration of Parliament though the person who does thus bring them forward, cannot, at the time, suggest to his own satisfaction any full and adequate remedy. The first remedy which he suggests to the evil which he thinks to arise from the Bank's restriction, is, that the Bank should gradually, and with much prndent forethought be made to resume its payments in specie. If, however, the evil does not arise from this cause, but from the other causes which I have already mentioned, viz. the increasing commerce and agriculture of the country, it follows that this remedy will not avail for correcting that evil. But the noble lord will also recollect, that though under all circumstances his Majesty's government had thought it advisable to propose the passing of this act during the whole course of the present war, the act may still be repealed by Parliament, if previous to that time, the necessity that at present exists should by any means be done away. I can assure the noble lord, that this subject has not been left unnoticed by his Majesty's government.—Now, to examine the other remedy, which he suggests for giving greater security to public credit. I suppose his lordship means that something of the same nature should be resorted to as that sort of plan which was adopted in 1973, of giving government paper and security to such individuals as could prove to the satisfaction of a Committee that they had real and solid property to the amount. I was not at die time
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perfectly satisfied with this scheme; and from what has since fallen under my own observation, nothing short of a very strong necessity indeed could oblige me to give my assent to such a measure. I do not therefore say, that no circumstances could exist in which I should think the plan advisable to be adopted. But I know that a great many inconveniences, if not serious evils, arise from it. One of these was, that where great commercial bodies, or great manufactories were established, 2nd any embarrassment occurred among them, the proprietors immediately applied to Parliament for relief. The great inconvenience and mischief of this plan, therefore, was, that it gave a sort of security to people, which made them not trust to themselves, and encouraged them to rely upon the public security in the worst that could happen. I shall do, the persons who were then, and those who are now engaged in the places that rendered it their immediate concern to attend to these things, the justice to say, that they gave every discouragement consistent with prudence and propriety to applications of this sort. But it is a fact, that much mischief would result from a scheme of this nature, in teaching people to rely upon public security instead of their own exertions. Bankruptcies might thus, in some instances, be prevented; but, in the natural course of things, great, extensive, and ill founded speculation would bring on bankruptcies, which, in fact, are the natural correctives that apply to such evils. In such cases, therefore, the public ought not to interfere. Upon the whole, without giving any decided opinion as to his lordship's remedies, I may say that, at present, I do not perceive that they apply to the evils proposed to be remedied, and that it appears to me, in fact, that the evil itself, if it be an evil, does not arise from the cause to which his lordship a-scribes it.
Lord Kingsaid, that notwithstanding his objections to the present measure, and the general reasoning by which it was supported, he had been much gratified by severed par s of the noble Secretary's speech. He had heard, with very great pleasure, the noble lord's distinct admission, that the principle of the bill was radically vicious, his declared repugnance to all legislative interference on subjects of this nature, and Its avowal that such measures could be justified only by the most urgent necessity. Such public admissions, from the persons who proposed these measures, were highly important at all times, but more particularly at present; when, from their frequent repeti-

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tion for the last seven years, there was some cause of apprehension, lest the practice of assenting to such acts, upon the mere suggestion of the minister, might acquire the sanction of precedent, and become the regular and established usage of Parliament. His lordship said, that having so often troubled the House upon this subject, and so lately in the Committee on this bill, he would not now enter at large into the question; but confine himself principally to some of those incidental topics which had been introduced in the course of the discussion. The only argument of the least weight? which he had heard, either in or out of Parliament, in support of the measure, was the probability of great public embarrassment, from the demand upon the Bank for specie in case of invasion. But it was acknowledged, that the present measure had already, in point of fact, produced some of those very inconveniencies which were the objects of so much apprehension. Complaints had been made in another place, that a large proportion of the current coin had been withdrawn from circulation by selfish individuals, who preferred their private security to the public welfare; and the patriotism of the country had been loudly called upon, to put a stop to what had been termed the infamous practice of boarding. He entirely agreed with the noble lord who had opened this debate, as to the folly and impropriety of this vulgar and ignorant clamour. The complaint reminded him of those periods of the French revolution, when it was not uncommon to hear of accusations of incivism, for the crime of preferring French crowns and Louis d'ors, to the republican assignats depreciated at that time 4 or 500 per cent. The real crime of the persons who were thus denounced, consisted in distrusting the good faith of the republic, under the guidance of those virtuous citizens a d enlightened political economists, who composed the Committee of Public Safety. So, in the present instance, he could not but think that the persons who were thus held forth to popular odium, were, in other words, accused of being so utterly destitute of public spirit as to betray their apprehension for the fate of the country, in the hands of his Majesty's present ministers. Respecting the fact itself, he was inclined to think, that the practice of hoarding lock place to some extent, as it was reasonable to suppose in critical and dangerous time; and it was probably still more general in Ireland, in proportion to the danger of the country. He thought that persons in public situations ought not to lend their voice
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to assist the clamour which was raised against those who chose to keep a part of their property in the form of coin, or who,; in the present circumstances of the country,: preferred specie to any other commodity. He thought upon general principles, that the rights of property should be respected, and that the public interest regarded that those rights should be as free and uncontroled as possible. He was persuaded: that if specie was accumulated, in any considerable degree, in timers of public alarm, the public difficulties and embarrassment would be diminished, in the same proportion, when the enemy landed and the moment of danger actually arrived. The no he lord who had opened this debate had I well and forcibly illustrated this position, by comparing what was now so much complained of, to the practice of hoarding corn in this of scarcity, where, by a process; exactly similar, the prudence of individuals, I which in that case also is so much the object of popular odium, provides against and I alleviates the calamity at the time of its greatest pressure.—Wilhrespectto the measure which was now under discussion, his. lordship said, that the powers which were: entrusted to the Bank, for an indefinite period, were in no respect guarded against abuse. The natural and only true limit of every paper currency, was the power of compelling payment in specie at the will of the holder. A paper currency not convertible into specie had no rule or standard, except the discretion of the persons by whom: it was issued. To determine the quantity of currency necessary for circulation was, in all cases, a difficult and delicate problem. A very strict attention to the price of bullion, and the state of foreign exchanges, was alone capable of affording a just criterion by which the quantity could be truly ascertained. Without a perpetual reference to these tests, it was impossible to maintain the Full value of the currency. That the Bank Directors had failed in the performance of this duty was evident, from the enormous increase in the quantity of their notes, and the great derangements which had taken place in the price of silver and foreign exchanges, since the period of the restriction. He said, that the excessive quantity of Bank notes, by raising the market price of silver above the Mint price, was one of the causes of the present scarcity of silver coin; because it; famished an additional temptation to that practice, which was thus rendered more profitable than at any former period. He stated: it as a fact, for the truth of which he appealed to those lords who represented the

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peerage of Ireland, that, in convenience of the still greater depreciation of the currency of that country, the silver coin there had totally disappeared, and had given place to a most debased and counterfeit substitute. He should not now enlarge upon this subject, though it was one of the very highest importance, since a more proper opportunity for the discussion would occur when the Irish Bank Restriction Bill was brought into the House.—He said, that the proposal of the noble lord, who had opened the debate, for a Committee to take into consideration the important questions to which he had alluded, should meet with his most cordial support. The noble Secretary had stared, that he was not prepared either to assent or dissent on the first mention of such a proposal; but as it bad been required that some distinct subject of inquiry ought to be stated, to induce the House to consent to such a Committee, he would take the liberty (if it was not presuming too far) to mention some of the topics to which the attention of a Committee might be directed with great propriety and advantage. Independant of the general question, respecting the effect of the Bank restriction upon the currency of the two countries, there was great room for inquiring into the policy of adopting a new system of coinage, and of new modelling the regulations of the Mint. The propriety of deducting from the value of the coin, the expense of the coinage, was an alteration which had long been proposed by the best writers on the subject; and was one which he should think it right to submit to the attention of the Committee. It would be useful also, to consider the propriety of adjusting the relative values of the silver and gold coins, according to the change which had taken place in the relative values of those metals; an alteration of indispensable necessity, since, by the present regulations of the Mint, it had long been found impossible to retain any new issue of silver coin in circulation. There was, also, another object of importance which might be referred to such a Committee; he meant the propriety of repealing all laws against exporting the current coin of the country, and of allowing it to be considered as a common article of merchandize. The laws, which prohibited this, were founded in popular error, and formed part of a system which was now universally exploded. At present, when the exchange is unfavourable, the coin, which is necessary for paying the balance against us, must be melted down in order to be exported without risk of seizure. By the proposed alteration, it would
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be exported in the shape of coin, when the exchange was unfavourable, and would return in the same state, when the exchange was restored to its usual and ordinary course He concluded by again expressing his hope, that the proposal which had been made, for a Committee to consider the various questions connected with the credit and currency of the country, would be seriously brought forward after the recess, and would be adopted by the House.
The Marquis of Sligorose, as he said, to confirm Lord King's account of the badness of the silver coinage in Ireland. He however denied that any transaction of the nature alluded to by his lordship, had ever fallen under his observation, or was consistent with his knowledge.
The Duke of Norfolkdid not mean at present to oppose the bill, but lie remarked that it was too much the custom of the last administration to propose and carry dangerous measures, and afterwards act upon them as precedents. This now had become a precedent, and he was sorry that, as it had been once enacted, this was not a time to repeal it. Government ought to be aware how it passed measures of this magnitude at the desire of persons, by whose means they might become independant of Parliament. If ministers would, whenever the Bank directors pleased, come to Parliament are obtain a law to protect those directors against the legal demands of their creditors, it might be feared, that in return those directors might, at some time or other, give ministers such aid as would enable them to dispense, for a time at least, with the concurrence of Parliament.
Lord Grenvillerose to explain some misstatements of his positions by the noble Secretary of State. Particularly, he observed, he had been completely misunderstood in the plan which he suggested for giving greater security to private piper. He did not at all mean that government security v. as to be given to individuals as in 1793. His plan was this, that as the individuals of the nation were concerned in the capital of the whole nation, a general plan should be entered upon, under the countenance of Parliament, to support the credit of: any particular private bank, whose paper should be effected by a landing of the enemy, or any other alarm in the place where it was situated.
Lord Hawkesburydenied, in the most positive terms, that the bill was introduced at the request, or even at the suggestion of the Bank directors; but that government had brought forward the measure solely from

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their own conviction of its necessity.—The bill was then read a third time, and afterwards passed.