§ Mr. RaynsfordI beg to move amendment No. 111, in page 58, line 6, leave out from 'after' to end of line 14 and insert
'the commencement of this Part.'.73 This is the last amendment to part I and deals with the timetable for the implementation of its provisions. As hon. Members know, the Bill ends mandatory renovation grants and there is a malign implication because it will have a retrospective effect. Provided that the Bill receives Royal Assent before 2 August, anyone who has applied for a mandatory renovation grant since 2 February this year will be deemed to be ineligible for one. That will apply even though such people applied in good faith when the existing legislation stated that they were entitled to mandatory grants. That right is being taken away. The dismantling of mandatory grants without replacement is bad enough; taking away the entitlement retrospectively is unacceptable.We will vote on the amendment if the Government do not accept it not only to show our disapproval of the withdrawal of such grants without a coherent alternative to replace them but, above all, because it demonstrates the Government's untrustworthiness in taking away from people a statutory right months after they should have been entitled to receive it. The provisions are objectionable but their retrospective application is deplorable. The amendment seeks to remedy that serious defect in the Bill.
§ Mr. ClappisonWe are, of course, putting in place an effective system for dealing with renovation grants. In the circumstances it was appropriate to set a clear date for the new arrangements to come into operation. That is achieved by the present wording of clause 101.
My Department wrote to all local authorities on 2 February this year to inform them of the changes proposed and of the transitional arrangements for each type of grant under the house renovation grant system. We drew to their attention the fact that they should inform grant applicants of the details and time scale of the proposed changes. That has given the maximum possible notice to local authorities and applicants of how the provisions of part I will be implemented. The proposals give local authorities the best opportunity to organise their work load and manage their resources and allow all grant applicants to be treated on the same basis.
By retaining the availability of mandatory grant for all applications made up to the commencement of part I, amendment No. 111 would encourage a rush of applications from applicants hoping to beat the deadline. That would create work load problems for local authorities and many other difficulties. The arrangements proposed are fair to local authorities because they allow them to programme their expenditure and use resources to the best effect and fair to applicants because they allow all applicants to be treated on the same basis.
§ Mr. BettsThe Minister says that all applicants will be treated equally and fairly. Surely everything depends on the progress that each local authority makes in processing the grants. Where processing is conducted more quickly, applicants might find that the same date is treated differently in different parts of the country.
§ Mr. ClappisonNo. Applicants will be treated in the same way because after 2 February all applications will be dealt with as applications for discretionary grant unless a six-month period of consideration has already elapsed. There is consistency and clearness.
74 The proposed provisions allow for any valid application for mandatory grant submitted more than six months before commencement of the new provisions to be dealt with under the 1989 legislation. That will apply to all those who have submitted valid mandatory grant applications. Grant eligibility will not be removed from any potential applicant. Local authorities will still be required to consider any valid grant application made to them and may give a discretionary grant where that accords with their strategy and priorities for the area.
§ Mr. RaynsfordThe Minister has confirmed in his concluding remarks that the Government are engaged in a policy that is discreditable and one of despair. The Government are abandoning the mandatory renovation grant framework because it was inadequately funded. Queues of applicants were waiting for a grant that could not be delivered under the system that the Government put in place only seven years ago. They are abandoning that system and that is an admission of failure.
Even worse, the Government are abandoning the system retrospectively. They are removing a statutory right to a mandatory grant. They are removing entitlement retrospectively from 2 February. That is not a principle that commends itself to the House. It is not a principle that commends itself to the Labour party. I invite my right hon. and hon. Friends to vote against the Government by supporting amendment No. 111.
§ Question put, That the amendment be made:—
§ The House divided: Ayes 239, Noes 273.
77| Division No. 174] | [6.31 pm |
| AYES | |
| Abbott, Ms Diane | Chidgey, David |
| Adams, Mrs Irene | Chisholm, Malcolm |
| Ainger, Nick | Clapham, Michael |
| Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE) | Clark, Dr David (South Shields) |
| Allen, Graham | Clarke, Eric (Midlothian) |
| Anderson, Donald (Swansea E) | Clarke, Tom (Monklands W) |
| Austin-Walker, John | Clelland, David |
| Banks, Tony (Newham NW) | Clwyd, Mrs Ann |
| Barron, Kevin | Coffey, Ms Ann |
| Battle, John | Cohen, Harry |
| Bayley, Hugh | Connarty, Michael |
| Beckett, Rt Hon Margaret | Cook, Robin (Livingston) |
| Beith, Rt Hon A J | Corbyn, Jeremy |
| Bell, Stuart | Corston, Jean |
| Bennett, Andrew F | Cousins, Jim |
| Bermingham, Gerald | Cummings, John |
| Berry, Roger | Cunliffe, Lawrence |
| Betts, Clive | Cunningham, Jim (Covy SE) |
| Blair, Rt Hon Tony | Dalyell, Tam |
| Blunkett, David | Darling, Alistair |
| Boateng, Paul | Davidson, Ian |
| Bradley, Keith | Davies, Chris (L'Boro & S'worth) |
| Bray, Dr Jeremy | Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli) |
| Brown, Gordon (Dunfermline E) | Davies, Ron (Caerphilly) |
| Brown, N (N'c'tle upon Tyne E) | Davis, Terry (B'ham, H'dge H'l) |
| Bruce, Malcolm (Gordon) | Denham, John |
| Byers, Stephen | Dewar, Donald |
| Caborn, Richard | Dixon, Don |
| Callaghan, Jim | Dobson, Frank |
| Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge) | Donohoe, Brian H |
| Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V) | Dowd, Jim |
| Campbell-Savours, D N | Dunwoody, Mrs Gwyneth |
| Canavan, Dennis | Eagle, Ms Angela |
| Cann, Jamie | Eastham, Ken |
| Carlile, Alexander (Montgomery) | Etherington, Bill |
| Evans, John (St Helens N) | Mackinlay, Andrew |
| Fatcnett, Derek | McLeish, Henry |
| Faulds, Andrew | McMaster, Gordon |
| Fisher, Mark | MacShane, Denis |
| Flynn, Paul | McWilliam, John |
| Foster, Rt Hon Derek | Madden, Max |
| Foster, Don (Bath) | Maddock, Diana |
| Foulkes, George | Mahon, Alice |
| Fraser, John | Mandelson, Peter |
| Fyfe, Maria | Marshall, David (Shettleston) |
| Galloway, George | Martin, Michael J (Springburn) |
| Gapes, Mike | Meacher, Michael |
| Garrett, John | Michael, Alun |
| Gerrard, Neil | Michie, Bill (Sheffield Heeley) |
| Gilbert, Rt Hon Dr John | Milburn, Alan |
| Godman, Dr Norman A | Miller, Andrew |
| Godsiff, Roger | Moonie, Dr Lewis |
| Golding, Mrs Llin | Morgan, Rhodri |
| Gordon, Mildred | Morley, Elliot |
| Graham, Thomas | Morris, Rt Hon Alfred (Wy'nshawe) |
| Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S) | Morris, Estelle (B'ham Yardley) |
| Griffiths, Win (Bridgend) | Morris, Rt Hon John (Aberavon) |
| Grocott, Bruce | Mudie, George |
| Gunnell, John | Mullin, Chris |
| Hain, Peter | Murphy, Paul |
| Hall, Mike | Oakes, Rt Hon Gordon |
| Hanson, David | O'Brien, William (Normanton) |
| Harman, Ms Harriet | O'Hara, Edward |
| Hattersley, Rt Hon Roy | Olner, Bill |
| Henderson, Doug | O'Neill, Martin |
| Heppell, John | Orme, Rt Hon Stanley |
| Hill, Keith (Streatham) | Pearson, Ian |
| Hinchliffe, David | Pendry, Tom |
| Hodge, Margaret | Pickthall, Colin |
| Hoey, Kate | Pike, Peter L |
| Hogg, Norman (Cumbernauld) | Pope, Greg |
| Home Robertson, John | Powell, Sir Ray (Ogmore) |
| Hood, Jimmy | Prentice, Bridget (Lew'm E) |
| Hoon, Geoffrey | Prentice, Gordon (Pendle) |
| Howarth, Alan (Strat'rd-on-A) | Prescott, Rt Hon John |
| Howarth, George (Knowsley North) | Primarolo, Dawn |
| Howells, Dr Kim (Pontypridd) | Purchase, Ken |
| Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N) | Quin, Ms Joyce |
| Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen N) | Radice, Giles |
| Hughes, Roy (Newport E) | Randall, Stuart |
| Hutton, John | Raynsford, Nick |
| Illsley, Eric | Reid, Dr John |
| Ingram, Adam | Rendel, David |
| Jackson, Glenda (H'stead) | Robinson, Geoffrey (Co'try NW) |
| Jackson, Helen (Shef'ld, H) | Roche, Mrs Barbara |
| Jamieson, David | Rogers, Allan |
| Janner, Greville | Rooker, Jeff |
| Jenkins, Brian (SE Staff) | Ross, Ernie (Dundee W) |
| Jones, Jon Owen (Cardiff C) | Rowlands, Ted |
| Jones, Lynne (B'ham S O) | Sedgemore, Brian |
| Jones, Nigel (Cheltenham) | Sheerman, Barry |
| Jowell, Tessa | Sheldon, Rt Hon Robert |
| Kaufman, Rt Hon Gerald | Shore, Rt Hon Peter |
| Keen, Alan | Short, Clare |
| Kennedy, Charles (Ross,C&S) | Skinner, Dennis |
| Kennedy, Jane (L'pool Br'dg'n) | Smith, Andrew (Oxford E) |
| Khabra, Piara S | Smith, Llew (Blaenau Gwent) |
| Kilfoyle, Peter | Soley, Clive |
| Kirkwood, Archy | Spearing, Nigel |
| Lewis, Terry | Spellar, John |
| Liddell, Mrs Helen | Squire, Rachel (Dunfermline W) |
| Litherland, Robert | Steel, Rt Hon Sir David |
| Livingstone, Ken | Steinberg, Gerry |
| Llwyd, Elfyn | Stevenson, George |
| Loyden, Eddie | Stott, Roger |
| Lynne, Ms Liz | Strang, Dr. Gavin |
| McAllion, John | Sutcliffe, Gerry |
| McAvoy, Thomas | Taylor, Mrs Ann (Dewsbury) |
| McCartney, Ian | Taylor, Matthew (Truro) |
| Macdonald, Calum | Timms, Stephen |
| McKelvey, William | Tipping, Paddy |
| Touhig, Don | Williams, Rt Hon Alan (Sw'n W) |
| Trickett, Jon | Williams, Alan W (Carmarthen) |
| Turner, Dennis | Winnick, David |
| Vaz, Keith | Wise, Audrey |
| Walker Rt Hon Sir Harold | Wray, Jimmy |
| Wright, Dr Tony | |
| Walley, Joan | Young, David (Bolton SE) |
| Wareing, Robert N | |
| Watson, Mike | Tellers for the Ayes: |
| Wicks, Malcolm | Mr. Joe Benton and |
| Wigley, Dafydd | Ms Janet Anderson. |
| NOES | |
| Ainsworth, Peter (East Surrey) | Devlin, Tim |
| Aitken, Rt Hon Jonathan | Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James |
| Alexander, Richard | Dover, Den |
| Alison, Rt Hon Michael (Selby) | Duncan, Alan |
| Allason, Rupert (Torbay) | Duncan Smith, Iain |
| Amess, David | Dunn, Bob |
| Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham) | Dykes, Hugh |
| Ashby, David | Eggar, Rt Hon Tim |
| Atkins, Rt Hon Robert | Elletson, Harold |
| Atkinson, Peter (Hexham) | Evans, David (Welwyn Hatfield) |
| Baker, Nicholas (North Dorset) | Evans, Jonathan (Brecon) |
| Baldry, Tony | Evans, Nigel (Ribble Valley) |
| Banks, Matthew (Southport) | Evans, Roger (Monmouth) |
| Banks, Robert (Harrogate) | Evennett, David |
| Bates, Michael | Faber, David |
| Batiste, Spencer | Fabricant, Michael |
| Bellingham, Henry | Fenner, Dame Peggy |
| Bendall, Vivian | Field, Barry (Isle of Wight) |
| Beresford, Sir Paul | Fishbum, Dudley |
| Biffen, Rt Hon John | Forth, Eric |
| Body, Sir Richard | Fowler, Rt Hon Sir Norman |
| Bonsor, Sir Nicholas | Fox, Dr Liam (Woodspring) |
| Booth, Hartley | Fox, Rt Hon Sir Marcus (Shipley) |
| Boswell, Tim | Freeman, Rt Hon Roger |
| Bottomley, Peter (Eltham) | French, Douglas |
| Bottomley, Rt Hon Virginia | Fry, Sir Peter |
| Bowis, John | Gale, Roger |
| Boyson, Rt Hon Sir Rhodes | Gallie, Phil |
| Brazier, Julian | Gardiner, Sir George |
| Bright, Sir Graham | Garnier, Edward |
| Brooke, Rt Hon Peter | Gill, Christopher |
| Brown, M (Brigg & Cl'thorpes) | Gillan, Cheryl |
| Browning, Mrs Angela | Goodlad, Rt Hon Alastair |
| Bruce, Ian (South Dorset) | Goodson-Wickes, Dr Charles |
| Budgen, Nicholas | Gorman, Mrs Teresa |
| Burns, Simon | Gorst, Sir John |
| Burt, Alistair | Grant, Sir A (SW Cambs) |
| Butler, Peter | Greenway, Harry (Ealing N) |
| Butterfill, John | Greenway, John (Ryedale) |
| Carlisle, John (Luton North) | Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth, N) |
| Carrington, Matthew | Hamilton, Rt Hon Sir Archibald |
| Carttiss, Michael | Hamilton, Neil (Tatton) |
| Cash, William | Hampson, Dr Keith |
| Channon, Rt Hon Paul | Hannam, Sir John |
| Chapman, Sir Sydney | Hargreaves, Andrew |
| Churchill, Mr | Haselhurst, Sir Alan |
| Clappison, James | Hawkins, Nick |
| Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford) | Hawksley, Warren |
| Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey | Hayes, Jerry |
| Coe, Sebastian | Heald, Oliver |
| Colvin, Michael | Heathcoat-Amory, Rt Hon David |
| Congdon, David | Hendry, Charles |
| Conway, Derek | Heseltine, Rt Hon Michael |
| Coombs, Anthony (Wyre For'st) | Hicks, Sir Robert |
| Coombs, Simon (Swindon) | Higgins, Rt Hon Sir Terence |
| Cope, Rt Hon Sir John | Hill, Sir James (Southampton Test) |
| Cormack, Sir Patrick | Hogg, Rt Hon Douglas (G'tham) |
| Couchman, James | Horam, John |
| Currie, Mrs Edwina (S D'by'ire) | Hordem, Rt Hon Sir Peter |
| Curry, David (Skipton & Ripon) | Howard, Rt Hon Michael |
| Davies, Quentin (Stamford) | Hughes, Robert G (Harrow W) |
| Day, Stephen | Hunt, Rt Hon David (Wirral W) |
| Deva, Nirj Joseph | Hunt, Sir John (Ravensbourne) |
| Hunter, Andrew | Roberts, Rt Hon Sir Wyn |
| Hurd, Rt Hon Douglas | Robertson, Raymond (Ab'd'n S) |
| Jackson, Robert (Wantage) | Robinson, Mark (Somerton) |
| Jenkin, Bernard | Roe, Mrs Marion (Broxbourne) |
| Jessel, Toby | Rowe, Andrew (Mid Kent) |
| Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N) | Rumbold, Rt Hon Dame Angela |
| Jones, Robert B (W Hertfdshr) | Ryder, Rt Hon Richard |
| Kellett-Bowman, Dame Elaine | Sainsbury, Rt Hon Sir Timothy |
| Key, Robert | Scott, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas |
| King, Rt Hon Tom | Shaw, David (Dover) |
| Kirkhope, Timothy | Shaw, Sir Giles (Pudsey) |
| Knight, Mrs Angela (Erewash) | Shephard, Rt Hon Gillian |
| Knight, Rt Hon Greg (Derby N) | Shepherd, Sir Colin (Hereford) |
| Knight, Dame Jill (Bir'm E'st'n) | Shepherd, Richard (Aldridge) |
| Kynoch, George (Kincardine) | Shersby, Sir Michael |
| Lait, Mrs Jacqui | Sims, Sir Roger |
| Lang, Rt Hon Ian | Skeet, Sir Trevor |
| Lawrence, Sir Ivan | Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield) |
| Legg, Barry | Speed, Sir Keith |
| Leigh, Edward | Spencer, Sir Derek |
| Lennox-Boyd, Sir Mark | Spicer, Sir Michael (S Worcs) |
| Lester, Sir James (Broxtowe) | Spink, Dr Robert |
| Lidington, David | Sproat, Iain |
| Lilley, Rt Hon Peter | Squire, Robin (Hornchurch) |
| Lloyd, Rt Hon Sir Peter (Fareham) | Stanley, Rt Hon Sir John |
| Lord, Michael | Steen, Anthony |
| Luff, Peter | Stephen, Michael |
| Lyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas | Stern, Michael |
| MacGregor, Rt Hon John | Stewart, Allan |
| MacKay, Andrew | Streeter, Gary |
| Maclean, Rt Hon David | Sumberg, David |
| McLoughlin, Patrick | Sweeney, Walter |
| McNair-Wilson, Sir Patrick | Sykes, John |
| Madel, Sir David | Tapsell, Sir Peter |
| Maitland, Lady Olga | Taylor, Ian (Esher) |
| Malone, Gerald | Taylor, John M (Solihull) |
| Mans, Keith | Taylor, Sir Teddy (Southend, E) |
| Marland, Paul | Temple-Morris, Peter |
| Marlow, Tony | Thomason, Roy |
| Marshall, John (Hendon S) | Thompson, Sir Donald (C'er V) |
| Martin, David (Portsmouth S) | Thompson, Patrick (Norwich N) |
| Mates, Michael | Thurnham, Peter |
| Mawhinney, Rt Hon Dr Brian | Townend, John (Bridlington) |
| Merchant, Piers | Townsend, Cyril D (Bexl'yh'th) |
| Mills, Iain | Tracey, Richard |
| Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling) | Tredinnick, David |
| Mitchell, Sir David (NW Hants) | Trend, Michael |
| Moate, Sir Roger | Twinn, Dr Ian |
| Molyneaux, Rt Hon Sir James | Vaughan, Sir Gerard |
| Monro, Rt Hon Sir Hector | Viggers, Peter |
| Montgomery, Sir Fergus | Waldegrave, Rt Hon William |
| Moss, Malcolm | Walden, George |
| Needham, Rt Hon Richard | Walker, Bill (N Tayside) |
| Neubert, Sir Michael | Waller, Gary |
| Newton, Rt Hon Tony | Ward, John |
| Nicholls, Patrick | Wardle, Charles (Bexhill) |
| Nicholson, David (Taunton) | Waterson, Nigel |
| Oppenheim, Phillip | Watts, John |
| Ottaway, Richard | Wells, Bowen |
| Page, Richard | Whitney, Ray |
| Paice, James | Whittingdale, John |
| Patnick, Sir Irvine | Widdecombe, Ann |
| Pattie, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey | Wiggin, Sir Jerry |
| Pawsey, James | Wilkinson, John |
| Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth | Willetts, David |
| Porter, Barry (Wirral S) | Wilshire, David |
| Porter, David (Waveney) | Winterton, Mrs Ann (Congleton) |
| Portillo, Rt Hon Michael | Winterton, Nicholas (Macc'f'id) |
| Powell, William (Corby) | Wolfson, Mark |
| Rathbone, Tim | Wood, Timothy |
| Renton, Rt Hon Tim | Young, Rt Hon Sir George |
| Richards, Rod | |
| Riddick, Graham | Tellers for the Noes: |
| Rifkind, Rt Hon Malcolm | Mr. Roger Knapman and |
| Robathan, Andrew | Mr. Gyles Brandreth. |
§ Question accordingly negatived.