§ Again considered in Committee.
§ Question again proposed, That the amendment be made.
Mr. EvansThere is clear evidence that the number of divorces granted during the early years of marriage has increased. My hon. Friend the Member for Chislehurst therefore draws the Committee's attention to a serious issue.
Some recent press reports have falsely claimed that the Bill would enable parties to divorce on the first anniversary of their marriage. As I have made clear previously, that is untrue. The current law permits a petition to be served the day after the first anniversary of the marriage. The Bill would effectively double that minimum period before an application for a divorce could be made, although my hon. Friend's amendments would lengthen the period for a further year.
I turn now to the core issue of whether the period for reflection and consideration should be lengthened from the minimum of 12 months proposed in the Bill. Clearly, as I said earlier, that is a matter for the individual judgment of hon. Members. There is a need to restate the fact that the period that we are considering is the period for reflection and consideration following service of the statement of marital breakdown. Accordingly, from the time that the Bill comes into effect, we will be preventing couples from making an application for a divorce order until that minimum period has elapsed.
Although I have no doubt that some hon. Members will find it attractive to opt for a longer period as a quid pro quo for the removal of the need to make allegations of fault, it must be borne in mind that longer periods can create hardship. The longer the period that amendment may bring, the more the argument will gain currency that shortening the period should be granted in particular cases.
I want to make it clear to the Committee that I am strongly opposed to reducing the period below the bare minimum currently in the Bill. We must remember that we are trying to create balanced law tough enough to ensure that couples take marriage seriously and try hard, but not so tough that they reject it altogether. That was a matter of concern to several hon. Members who spoke. Although we have one of the highest marriage rates in Europe, we were reminded that it has been falling in recent years.
532 Sadly, marriage rates have fallen most sharply among younger people. There are those who believe that making the period for reflection and consideration too long, even if that is being done for the some of the honourable reasons that we have been debating this evening, might affect marriage rates among the young. If marriage is seen as something that is so difficult to get out of if things do go wrong, young people may decide that they prefer to demonstrate their commitment to each other by way of cohabitation rather than marriage. We should be cautious that, with the best of intentions, we do not take any step in the individual judgments we make that would in any way undermine marriage or adversely affect marriage rates.
The hon. Member for Brent, South (Mr. Boateng) reminded the Committee at the beginning of these debates that we are all making individual judgments, and that no statements made from the Dispatch Box are anything other than the personal views of those who express them. I reiterate those words in relation to the words that I intend to make. In the circumstances, it is necessary for the Committee to know my personal view.
It is my view that the minimum period, even if that length of time is disputed, should be the same in all cases, whether there are children in a marriage or not. I find it difficult to see how extending the period for couples with children can be said to benefit children.
Children, as we would all acknowledge, suffer greatly from their parents' marriage breakdown. As I said to some of my hon. Friends earlier, they suffer particularly from a decision of one parent to leave the marital home. It is clear from all the evidence that that is one of the factors that causes much damage. One reason why we need to focus particularly on that is that, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Mitcham and Morden (Dame A. Rumbold) reminded us, sometimes children unjustly and wrongly attribute to themselves the responsibility for their parent's marital breakdown.
In considering those issues, it is important that we do not run the risk of parents, in moments of frustration, blaming their children for the fact that they may have to wait longer to be free of a marriage that they believe to be long finished. That is a danger, bearing in mind all the emotional and practical pressures that inevitably arise in the divorce process. I hope that there will be hon. Members who feel that placing that additional pressure on children is unfair.
The idea that drawing out the period for a lengthier time may be harmful to children is not just my personal view. On Third Reading in another place, my noble and learned Friend the Lord Chancellor quoted from letters that he had received from a number of children's charities. During this debate, we heard a contribution from the hon. Member for North-West Durham (Ms Armstrong), who referred to her experience with the National Children's Home—I call it that in order not to engage in any sort of backwards attack from my hon. Friend the Member for Lancaster (Dame E. Kellett-Bowman). [Interruption.]
§ The Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr. Michael Morris)Order. Hon. Members attending the Chamber should listen to the hon. Member who has the Floor; otherwise, they should have their conversations elsewhere.
Mr. EvansThe National Children's Home and a number of other children's charities have considerable 533 experience in the area. The Lord Chancellor quoted from letters that he had received from the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children, The Children's Society, Barnardo' s and the National Children's Home, all of which dealt with that concept of lengthening the period where children are involved.
I know that those organisations have written to hon. Members. I do not intend to repeat their comments, but hon Members will be aware that those are the views of some of the most highly respected children's organisations, who have a wealth of experience in this field and whose views I would not dismiss lightly.
At the beginning of this speech, I said that those who have contributed to this debate have done so with sincere and heartfelt opinions. In my opinion, the speeches that we have heard this evening have been sincere, passionate, intelligent and legitimate.
Many hon. Members quoted the injunction that was given to us earlier by the Catholic bishops. I applaud all hon. Members who contributed to the debate, all of whom listened with care to the arguments that were put before the Committee. As I said earlier, we must remember with caution that what we decide tonight will have far-reaching implications. We must examine our views very carefully—whatever decisions we make—and give careful and measured thought to those who will be affected by the way that we vote.
Couples, despite their best efforts, are sometimes involved in the trauma of marital breakdown. The innocent parties to that trauma—who have figured in many speeches—are the children whose whole lives will be affected by what we decide tonight. Therefore, we are not deciding just an intellectual question of how long it should take for couples to prove that their marriage has irretrievably broken down, or a quick gut reaction, or a gesture towards restricting divorce. We are making decisions that will have an effect on the lives of thousands of people and their children. It is a responsibility that we cannot take too seriously.
§ Mr. SimsThe debate this evening has inevitably centred on the length of time that will be devoted for the period for reflection and consideration. I remind the Committee that the debate started with the amendment that I moved, which would have the effect of making couples who are married unable to initiate divorce proceedings for two years, rather than the one year that is at present the law.
I believe that it is important for us to uphold the status of marriage. The Bill has been criticised for undermining the credibility of marriage—I think, perhaps, inaccurately. Nevertheless, we must send a message from this Committee that marriage is the foundation of our society, and that stable marriages are very important.
People should not get married "unadvisedly, lightly or wantonly"—to quote the Church service—and they should know that, when they get married, they cannot simply dissolve the contract within one year. I think that two years is a perfectly reasonable minimum period. That will be the effect of my amendment on which the first vote will take place. I hope that the Committee will support it.
§ Question put, That the amendment be made:—
§ The House divided: Ayes 154, Noes 235.
536| Division No. 106] | [10.12 pm |
| AYES | |
| Aitken, Rt Hon Jonathan | Horam, John |
| Alton, David | Hughes, Robert G (Harrow W) |
| Amess, David | Hunt, Rt Hon David (Wirral W) |
| Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham) | Hunter, Andrew |
| Atkins, Rt Hon Robert | Jenkin, Bernard |
| Baker, Rt Hon Kenneth (Mole V) | Jessel, Toby |
| Baker, Nicholas (North Dorset) | Jones, Ieuan Wyn (Ynys Môn) |
| Banks, Matthew (Southport) | Jones, Nigel (Cheltenham) |
| Bates, Michael | Jopling, Rt Hon Michael |
| Beggs, Roy | Kellett-Bowman, Dame Elaine |
| Beith, Rt Hon A J | King, Rt Hon Tom |
| Bellingham, Henry | Kirkhope, Timothy |
| Bendall, Vivian | Knapman, Roger |
| Benton, Joe | Knight, Dame Jill (Bir'm E'st'n) |
| Booth, Hartley | Leigh, Edward |
| Bray, Dr Jeremy | Lennox-Boyd, Sir Mark |
| Brazier, Julian | Lidington, David |
| Brooke, Rt Hon Peter | Lilley, Rt Hon Peter |
| Bruce, Ian (South Dorset) | Lord, Michael |
| Budgen, Nicholas | McAvoy, Thomas |
| Burns, Simon | Maclean, Rt Hon David |
| Burt, Alistair | McLoughlin, Patrick |
| Butcher, John | Maitland, Lady Olga |
| Cann, Jamie | Marlow, Tony |
| Cash, William | Mates, Michael |
| Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford) | Merchant, Piers |
| Congdon, David | Mills, Iain |
| Conway, Derek | Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling) |
| Coombs, Anthony (Wyre For'st) | Mitchell, Sir David (NW Hants) |
| Coombs, Simon (Swindon) | Molyneaux, Rt Hon Sir James |
| Dafis, Cynog | Monro, Rt Hon Sir Hector |
| Davies, Quentin (Stamford) | Montgomery, Sir Fergus |
| Davis, David (Boothferry) | Murphy, Paul |
| Day, Stephen | Neubert, Sir Michael |
| Deva, Nirj Joseph | Nicholls, Patrick |
| Devlin, Tim | Onslow, Rt Hon Sir Cranley |
| Dixon, Don | Paice, James |
| Dorrell, Rt Hon Stephen | Paisley, The Reverend Ian |
| Duncan Smith, Iain | Parry, Robert |
| Eastham, Ken | Patten, Rt Hon John |
| Evans, David (Welwyn Hatfield) | Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth |
| Evans, Nigel (Ribble Valley) | Porter, David (Waveney) |
| Evans, Roger (Monmouth) | Powell, Ray (Ogmore) |
| Evennett, David | Powell, William (Corby) |
| Faber, David | Redwood, Rt Hon John |
| Field, Barry (Isle of Wight) | Riddick, Graham |
| Forsythe, Clifford (S Antrim) | Robathan, Andrew |
| Fox, Dr Liam (Woodspring) | Roberts, Rt Hon Sir Wyn |
| Fox, Rt Hon Sir Marcus (Shipley) | Roe, Mrs Marion (Broxbourne) |
| French, Douglas | Rumbold, Rt Hon Dame Angela |
| Fry, Sir Peter | Sackville, Tom |
| Gale, Roger | Scott, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas |
| Gallie, Phil | Shaw, David (Dover) |
| Gardiner, Sir George | Shepherd, Richard (Aldridge) |
| Gill, Christopher | Sims, Roger |
| Gillan, Cheryl | Skeet, Sir Trevor |
| Goodson-Wickes, Dr Charles | Skinner, Dennis |
| Gorst, Sir John | Smyth, The Reverend Martin (Belfast S) |
| Grant, Sir A (SW Cambs) | |
| Greenway, Harry (Ealing N) | Spearing, Nigel |
| Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth, N) | Spicer, Sir Michael (S Worcs) |
| Hague, Rt Hon William | Spink, Dr Robert |
| Hamilton, Rt Hon Sir Archibald | Spring, Richard |
| Hamilton, Neil (Tatton) | Sproat, Iain |
| Hannam, Sir John | Steinberg, Gerry |
| Hargreaves, Andrew | Stern, Michael |
| Harris, David | Streeter, Gary |
| Hawksley, Warren | Sumberg, David |
| Higgins, Rt Hon Sir Terence | Sweeney, Walter |
| Taylor, Rt Hon John D (Strgfd) | Wilkinson, John |
| Thompson, Patrick (Norwich N) | Wilshire, David |
| Thornton, Sir Malcolm | Winterton, Mrs Ann (Congleton) |
| Tracey, Richard | Winterton, Nicholas (Macc'f'ld) |
| Tredinnick, David | Wolfson, Mark |
| Twinn, Dr Ian | Wood, Timothy |
| Vaughan, Sir Gerard | Yeo, Tim |
| Waller, Gary | Tellers for the Ayes: |
| Watts, John | Mr. Michael Alison and |
| Widdecombe, Ann | Mr. Donald Anderson. |
| NOES | |
| Abbott, Ms Diane | Fatchett, Derek |
| Ainsworth, Peter (East Surrey) | Fishburn, Dudley |
| Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE) | Fisher, Mark |
| Allen, Graham | Flynn, Paul |
| Anderson, Ms Janet (Ros'dale) | Forman, Nigel |
| Armstrong, Hilary | Forth, Eric |
| Ashby, David | Foster, Rt Hon Derek |
| Banks, Robert (Harrogate) | Foster, Don (Bath) |
| Barnes, Harry | Foulkes, George |
| Barron, Kevin | Fowler, Rt Hon Sir Norman |
| Bayley, Hugh | Freeman, Rt Hon Roger |
| Beckett, Rt Hon Margaret | Galbraith, Sam |
| Benn, Rt Hon Tony | Gapes, Mike |
| Bermingham, Gerald | Garel-Jones, Rt Hon Tristan |
| Berry, Roger | Garnier, Edward |
| Betts, Clive | Gerrard, Neil |
| Biffen, Rt Hon John | Godman, Dr Norman A |
| Boateng, Paul | Godsiff, Roger |
| Boswell, Tim | Golding, Mrs Llin |
| Bottomley, Rt Hon Virginia | Goodlad, Rt Hon Alastair |
| Bradley, Keith | Gorman, Mrs Teresa |
| Brandreth, Gyles | Griffiths, Win (Bridgend) |
| Bright, Sir Graham | Grocott, Bruce |
| Brown, M (Brigg & Cl'thorpes) | Gummer, Rt Hon John Selwyn |
| Burden, Richard | Hall, Mike |
| Butler, Peter | Hampson, Dr Keith |
| Butterfill, John | Hanson, David |
| Byers, Stephen | Harman, Ms Harriet |
| Caborn, Richard | Harvey, Nick |
| Callaghan, Jim | Haselhurst, Sir Alan |
| Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge) | Heald, Oliver |
| Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V) | Heathcoat-Amory, Rt Hon David |
| Carlisle, Sir Kenneth (Lincoln) | Heppell, John |
| Carrington, Matthew | Heseltine, Rt Hon Michael |
| Channon, Rt Hon Paul | Hill, Keith (Streatham) |
| Chapman, Sir Sydney | Hodge, Margaret |
| Chisholm, Malcolm | Hogg, Rt Hon Douglas (G'tham) |
| Clapham, Michael | Hogg, Norman (Cumbernauld) |
| Clark, Dr David (South Shields) | Hoon, Geoffrey |
| Clarke, Eric (Midlothian) | Hordern, Rt Hon Sir Peter |
| Clarke, Rt Hon Kenneth (Ru'clif) | Howard, Rt Hon Michael |
| Clwyd, Mrs Ann | Howarth, Alan (Strat'rd-on-A) |
| Coe, Sebastian | Howarth, George (Knowsley North) |
| Coffey, Ann | Howell, Rt Hon David (G'dford) |
| Corbyn, Jeremy | Hoyle, Doug |
| Corston, Jean | Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N) |
| Cousins, Jim | Hutton, John |
| Cunningham, Jim (Covy SE) | Illsley, Eric |
| Currie, Mrs Edwina (S D'by'ire) | Ingram, Adam |
| Curry, David (Skipton & Ripon) | Jack, Michael |
| Darling, Alistair | Jackson, Glenda (H'stead) |
| Davidson, Ian | Jackson, Helen (Shef'ld, H) |
| Denham, John | Janner, Greville |
| Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James | Jenkins, Brian (S.E. Staffs) |
| Dover, Den | Johnson Smith, Sir Geoffrey |
| Dowd, Jim | Jones, Barry (Alyn and D'side) |
| Dunwoody, Mrs Gwyneth | Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N) |
| Dykes, Hugh | Jones, Jon Owen (Cardiff C) |
| Eagle, Ms Angela | Jones, Lynne (B'ham S O) |
| Eggar, Rt Hon Tim | Jones, Robert B (W Hertfdshr) |
| Etherington, Bill | Kennedy, Jane (L'pool Br'dg'n) |
| Evans, Jonathan (Brecon) | Khabra, Piara S |
| Fabricant, Michael | Kirkwood, Archy |
| Knight, Mrs Angela (Erewash) | Pawsey, James |
| Knight, Rt Hon Greg (Derby N) | Pickthall, Colin |
| Knox, Sir David | Pike, Peter L |
| Kynoch, George (Kincardine) | Pope, Greg |
| Lait, Mrs Jacqui | Prentice, Bridget (Lew'm E) |
| Lang, Rt Hon Ian | Prentice, Gordon (Pendle) |
| Lawrence, Sir Ivan | Primarolo, Dawn |
| Liddell, Mrs Helen | Quin, Ms Joyce |
| Livingstone, Ken | Radice, Giles |
| Lloyd, Rt Hon Sir Peter (Fareham) | Rendel, David |
| Lloyd, Tony (Stretford) | Renton, Rt Hon Tim |
| Llwyd, Elfyn | Robertson, George (Hamilton) |
| Loyden, Eddie | Robinson, Mark (Somerton) |
| Luff, Peter | Roche, Mrs Barbara |
| Lyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas | Sainsbury, Rt Hon Sir Timothy |
| Lynne, Ms Liz | Shaw, Sir Giles (Pudsey) |
| McCartney, Ian | Sheerman, Barry |
| Macdonald, Calum | Shephard, Rt Hon Gillian |
| McFall, John | Shersby, Sir Michael |
| MacGregor, Rt Hon John | Short, Clare |
| MacKay, Andrew | Simpson, Alan |
| Mackinlay, Andrew | Smith, Chris (Isl'ton S & F'sbury) |
| Maclennan, Robert | Smith, Llew (Blaenau Gwent) |
| MacShane, Denis | Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield) |
| Madden, Max | Soames, Nicholas |
| Madel, Sir David | Soley, Clive |
| Mahon, Alice | Spellar, John |
| Major, Rt Hon John | Squire, Rachel (Dunfermline W) |
| Marland Paul | Squire, Robin (Hornchurch) |
| Marshall, Jim (Leicester, S) | Stanley, Rt Hon Sir John |
| Marshall, John (Hendon S) | Steen, Anthony |
| Martlew, Eric | Stevenson, George |
| Mawhinney, Rt Hon Dr Brian | Stott, Roger |
| Maxton, John | Taylor, John M (Solihull) |
| Temple-Morris, Peter | |
| Mayhew, Rt Hon Sir Patrick | Tipping, Paddy |
| Meacher, Michael | Touhig, Don |
| Meale, Alan | Turner, Dennis |
| Michael, Alun | Tyler, Paul |
| Michie, Bill (Sheffield Heeley) | Waldegrave, Rt Hon William |
| Milburn, Alan | Walden, George |
| Miller, Andrew | Wallace, James |
| Mitchell, Austin (Gt Grimsby) | Ward, John |
| Moonie, Dr Lewis | Wardell, Gareth (Gower) |
| Morgan, Rhodri | Wareing, Robert N |
| Morley, Elliot | Watson, Mike |
| Morris, Estelle (B'ham Yardley) | Whitney, Ray |
| Mudie, George | Whittingdale, John |
| Mullin, Chris | Wicks, Malcolm |
| Needham, Rt Hon Richard | Wigley, Dafydd |
| Newton, Rt Hon Tony | Worthington, Tony |
| O'Brien, Mike (N W'kshire) | Young, David (Bolton SE) |
| O'Brien, William (Normanton) | Young, Rt Hon Sir George |
| Oppenheim, Phillip | |
| Ottaway, Richard | Tellers for the Noes: |
| Page, Richard | Mr. Peter Bottomley and |
| Pattie, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey | Sir Jim Lester. |
§ Question accordingly negatived.
§ It being later than three hours after the commencement of the proceedings on the clause, THE CHAIRMAN put the Questions then required to be put.
§
Amendment proposed: No. 7, in page 5, line 14, at end add—
'(9A) Where an application for a divorce order is made by one party, subsection (9D) applies if—
(9B) Where any application for a divorce order is made, subsection (9D) also applies if there is any child of the family under the age of sixteen when the statement is received by the court.537
(9C) Subsection (9D) does not apply if—
- (a) at the time when the application for a divorce order is made, there is an occupation order or a non-molestation order in force in favour of the applicant, or of a child of the family, with a power of arrest attached under section 44; or
- (b) the court is satisfied that delaying the making of a divorce order would be significantly detrimental to the welfare of any child of the family.
(9D) If this subsection applies, the period for reflection and consideration is extended by a period of one year, but without invalidating the application for a divorce order.'.—[Mr. Leigh.]
§ Question put, That the amendment be made:—
§ The Committee divided: Ayes 144, Noes 243.
539| Division No. 107] | [10.24 pm |
| AYES | |
| Aitken, Rt Hon Jonathan | Hamilton, Rt Hon Sir Archibald |
| Alton, David | Hamilton, Neil (Tatton) |
| Amess, David | Hannam, Sir John |
| Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham) | Hargreaves, Andrew |
| Atkins, Rt Hon Robert | Harris, David |
| Baker, Rt Hon Kenneth (Mole V) | Hawksley, Warren |
| Baker, Nicholas (North Dorset) | Hoey, Kate |
| Banks, Matthew (Southport) | Horam, John |
| Bates, Michael | Howard, Rt Hon Michael |
| Beggs, Roy | Hughes, Robert G (Harrow W) |
| Beith, Rt Hon A J | Hughes, Simon (Southwark) |
| Bellingham, Henry | Hunt, Rt Hon David (Wirral W) |
| Bendall, Vivian | Hunter, Andrew |
| Benton, Joe | Jenkin, Bernard |
| Booth, Hartley | Jessel, Toby |
| Bowis, John | Jones, Robert B (W Hertfdshr) |
| Bray, Dr Jeremy | Jopling, Rt Hon Michael |
| Bruce, Ian (South Dorset) | Kellett-Bowman, Dame Elaine |
| Budgen, Nicholas | Kirkhope, Timothy |
| Burns, Simon | Knapman, Roger |
| Burt, Alistair | Knight, Dame Jill (Bir'm E'st'n) |
| Butcher, John | Leigh, Edward |
| Cash, William | Lennox-Boyd, Sir Mark |
| Clappison, James | Lidington, David |
| Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford) | Lilley, Rt Hon Peter |
| Congdon, David | Lord, Michael |
| Conway, Derek | McAvoy, Thomas |
| Coombs, Anthony (Wyre For'st) | Macdonald, Calum |
| Coombs, Simon (Swindon) | McFall, John |
| Dafis, Cynog | Maclean, Rt Hon David |
| Davies, Quentin (Stamford) | McLoughlin, Patrick |
| Davis, David (Boothferry) | Maitland, Lady Olga |
| Day, Stephen | Martlew, Eric |
| Deva, Nirj Joseph | Mates, Michael |
| Dixon, Don | Merchant, Piers |
| Duncan Smith, Iain | Mills, Iain |
| Eastham, Ken | Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling) |
| Evans, David (Welwyn Hatfield) | Molyneaux, Rt Hon Sir James |
| Evans, Nigel (Ribble Valley) | Monro, Rt Hon Sir Hector |
| Evans, Roger (Monmouth) | Montgomery, Sir Fergus |
| Evennett, David | Neubert, Sir Michael |
| Faber, David | Nicholls, Patrick |
| Field, Barry (Isle of Wight) | Onslow, Rt Hon Sir Cranley |
| Forsythe, Clifford (S Antrim) | Ottaway, Richard |
| Fox, Dr Liam (Woodspring) | Paisley, The Reverend Ian |
| Fox, Rt Hon Sir Marcus (Shipley) | Parry, Robert |
| Fry, Sir Peter | Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth |
| Gale, Roger | Porter, David (Waveney) |
| Gallie, Phil | Powell, Ray (Ogmore) |
| Gardiner, Sir George | Powell, William (Corby) |
| Gill, Christopher | Redwood, Rt Hon John |
| Goodson-Wickes, Dr Charles | Reid, Dr John |
| Gorst, Sir John | Riddick, Graham |
| Grant, Sir A (SW Cambs) | Roe, Mrs Marion (Broxbourne) |
| Greenway, Harry (Ealing N) | Rumbold, Rt Hon Dame Angela |
| Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth, N) | Sackville, Tom |
| Scott, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas | Thornton, Sir Malcolm |
| Shaw, David (Dover) | Timms, Stephen |
| Shepherd, Richard (Aldridge) | Tracey, Richard |
| Skeet, Sir Trevor | Tredinnick, David |
| Skinner, Dennis | Twinn, Dr Ian |
| Smyth, The Reverend Martin | Waller, Gary |
| Spearing, Nigel | Watts, John |
| Spicer, Sir James (W Dorset) | Widdecombe, Ann |
| Spicer, Sir Michael (S Worcs) | Wilkinson, John |
| Spink, Dr Robert | Wilshire, David |
| Spring, Richard | Winterton, Mrs Ann (Congleton) |
| Sproat, Iain | Winterton, Nicholas (Macc'f'ld) |
| Steinberg, Gerry | Wolfson, Mark |
| Stern, Michael | Yeo, Tim |
| Sumberg, David | |
| Sweeney, Walter | Tellers for the Ayes: |
| Taylor, Rt Hon John D (Strgfd) | Mr. Michael Alison and |
| Thompson, Patrick (Norwich N) | Mr. Donald Anderson. |
| NOES | |
| Abbott, Ms Diane | Dewar, Donald |
| Ainsworth, Peter (East Surrey) | Dorrell, Rt Hon Stephen |
| Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE) | Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James |
| Allen, Graham | Dover, Den |
| Anderson, Ms Janet (Ros'dale) | Dowd, Jim |
| Armstrong, Hilary | Dunwoody, Mrs Gwyneth |
| Ashby, David | Dykes, Hugh |
| Banks, Robert (Harrogate) | Eagle, Ms Angela |
| Barnes, Harry | Eggar, Rt Hon Tim |
| Barron, Kevin | Etherington, Bill |
| Battle, John | Evans, Jonathan (Brecon) |
| Bayley, Hugh | Fabricant, Michael |
| Beckett, Rt Hon Margaret | Fatchett, Derek |
| Benn, Rt Hon Tony | Fishburn, Dudley |
| Bermingham, Gerald | Fisher, Mark |
| Berry, Roger | Flynn, Paul |
| Betts, Clive | Forman, Nigel |
| Boateng, Paul | Forth, Eric |
| Boswell, Tim | Foster, Rt Hon Derek |
| Bottomley, Rt Hon Virginia | Foster, Don (Bath) |
| Bradley, Keith | Foulkes, George |
| Brandreth, Gyles | Fowler, Rt Hon Sir Norman |
| Bright, Sir Graham | Freeman, Rt Hon Roger |
| Brooke, Rt Hon Peter | French, Douglas |
| Brown, M (Brigg & Cl'thorpes) | Galbraith, Sam |
| Burden, Richard | Gapes, Mike |
| Butler, Peter | Garel-Jones, Rt Hon Tristan |
| Butterfill, John | Garnier, Edward |
| Byers, Stephen | Gerrard, Neil |
| Caborn, Richard | Gillan, Cheryl |
| Callaghan, Jim | Godman, Dr Norman A |
| Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge) | Godsiff, Roger |
| Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V) | Golding, Mrs Llin |
| Carlisle, Sir Kenneth (Lincoln) | Goodlad, Rt Hon Alastair |
| Carrington, Matthew | Gorman, Mrs Teresa |
| Channon, Rt Hon Paul | Griffiths, Win (Bridgend) |
| Chapman, Sir Sydney | Grocott, Bruce |
| Chisholm, Malcolm | Gummer, Rt Hon John Selwyn |
| Clapham, Michael | Hall, Mike |
| Clark, Dr David (South Shields) | Hampson, Dr Keith |
| Clarke, Eric (Midlothian) | Hanson, David |
| Clarke, Rt Hon Kenneth (Ru'clif) | Harman, Ms Harriet |
| Clwyd, Mrs Ann | Harvey, Nick |
| Coe, Sebastian | Haselhurst, Sir Alan |
| Coffey, Ann | Heald, Oliver |
| Corbyn, Jeremy | Heathcoat-Amory, Rt Hon David |
| Corston, Jean | Heppell, John |
| Cousins, Jim | Heseltine, Rt Hon Michael |
| Cunningham, Jim (Covy SE) | Higgins, Rt Hon Sir Terence |
| Currie, Mrs Edwina (S D'by'ire) | Hill, Keith (Streatham) |
| Curry, David (Skipton & Ripon) | Hodge, Margaret |
| Darling, Alistair | Hogg, Rt Hon Douglas (G'tham) |
| Davidson, Ian | Hogg, Norman (Cumbernauld) |
| Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli) | Hoon, Geoffrey |
| Denham, John | Hordern, Rt Hon Sir Peter |
| Devlin, Tim | Howarth, George (Knowsley North) |
| Hoyle, Doug | Needham, Rt Hon Richard |
| Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N) | Newton, Rt Hon Tony |
| Hutton, John | O'Brien, Mike (N W'kshire) |
| Illsley, Eric | O'Brien, William (Normanton) |
| Ingram, Adam | Oppenheim, Phillip |
| Jack, Michael | Paice, James |
| Jackson, Glenda (H'stead) | Pattie, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey |
| Jackson, Helen (Shef'ld, H) | Pawsey, James |
| Jenkins, Brian (S.E. Staffs) | Pickthall, Colin |
| Johnson Smith, Sir Geoffrey | Pike, Peter L |
| Jones, Barry (Alyn and D'side) | Pope, Greg |
| Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N) | Prentice, Bridget (Lew'm E) |
| Jones, Ieuan Wyn (Ynys Môn) | Prentice, Gordon (Pendle) |
| Jones, Jon Owen (Cardiff C) | Primarolo, Dawn |
| Jones, Lynne (B'ham S O) | Quin, Ms Joyce |
| Jones, Martyn (Clwyd, SW) | Radice, Giles |
| Jones, Nigel (Cheltenham) | Raynsford, Nick |
| Kennedy, Jane (L'pool Br'dg'n) | Rendel, David |
| Khabra, Piara S | Renton, Rt Hon Tim |
| Kilfoyle, Peter | Roberts, Rt Hon Sir Wyn |
| King, Rt Hon Tom | Robertson, George (Hamilton) |
| Kirkwood, Archy | Robinson, Mark (Somerton) |
| Knight, Mrs Angela (Erewash) | Roche, Mrs Barbara |
| Knight, Rt Hon Greg (Derby N) | Sainsbury, Rt Hon Sir Timothy |
| Knox, Sir David | Shaw, Sir Giles (Pudsey) |
| Kynoch, George (Kincardine) | Sheerman, Barry |
| Lait, Mrs Jacqui | Shephard, Rt Hon Gillian |
| Lang, Rt Hon Ian | Shersby, Sir Michael |
| Lawrence, Sir Ivan | Short, Clare |
| Liddell, Mrs Helen | Simpson, Alan |
| Livingstone, Ken | Sims, Roger |
| Lloyd, Rt Hon Sir Peter (Fareham) | Smith, Chris (Isl'ton S & F'sbury) |
| Lloyd, Tony (Stretford) | Smith, Llew (Blaenau Gwent) |
| Llwyd, Elfyn | Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield) |
| Loyden, Eddie | Soames, Nicholas |
| Luff, Peter | Soley, Clive |
| Lyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas | Spellar, John |
| Lynne, Ms Liz | Squire, Rachel (Dunfermline W) |
| McCartney, Ian | Squire, Robin (Hornchurch) |
| MacGregor, Rt Hon John | Stanley, Rt Hon Sir John |
| MacKay, Andrew | Steen, Anthony |
| Mackinlay, Andrew | Stevenson, George |
| Maclennan, Robert | Stott, Roger |
| MacShane, Denis | Streeter, Gary |
| Madden, Max | Taylor, John M (Solihull) |
| Madel, Sir David | Temple-Morris, Peter |
| Mahon, Alice | Tipping, paddy |
| Major, Rt Hon John | Touhig, Don |
| Turner, Dennis | |
| Marland, Paul | Vaughan, Sir Gerard |
| Marshall, Jim (Leicester, S) | Waldegrave, Rt Hon William |
| Marshall, John (Hendon S) | Walden, George |
| Mawhinney, Rt Hon Dr Brian | Wallace, James |
| Maxton, John | Ward, John |
| Mayhew, Rt Hon Sir Patrick | Wardell, Gareth (Gower) |
| Meale, Alan | Wareing, Robert N |
| Michael, Alun | Watson, Mike |
| Michie, Bill (Sheffield Heeley) | Whitney, Ray |
| Milburn, Alan | Whittingdale, John |
| Miller, Andrew | Wicks, Malcolm |
| Mitchell, Sir David (NW Hants) | Wigley, Dafydd |
| Moonie, Dr Lewis | Worthington, Tony |
| Morgan, Rhodri | Young, David (Bolton SE) |
| Morley, Elliot | Young, Rt Hon Sir George |
| Morris, Estelle (B'ham Yardley) | |
| Morris, Rt Hon John (Aberavon) | Tellers for the Noes: |
| Mudie, George | Mr. Peter Bottomley and |
| Mullin, Chris | Sir Jim Lester. |
§ Question accordingly negatived.
§
Amendment proposed: No. 8, in page 5, line 14, at end add—
'(9A) Where an application for a divorce order is made by one party, subsection (9D) applies if—
(9B) Where any application for a divorce order is made, subsection (9D) also applies if there is any child of the family under the age of sixteen when the statement is received by the court.
(9C) Subsection (9D) does not apply if—
- (a) at the time when the application for a divorce order is made, there is an occupation order or a non-molestation order in force in favour of the applicant, or of a child of the family, with a power of arrest attached under section 44; or
- (b) the court is satisfied that delaying the making of a divorce order would be significantly detrimental to the welfare of any child of the family.
(9D) If this subsection applies, the period for reflection and consideration is extended by a period of six months, but without invalidating the application for a divorce order.'.—[Mr. Leigh.]
§ Question put, That the amendment be made:—
§ The Committee divided: Ayes 200, Noes 196.
543| Division No. 108] | [10.35 pm |
| AYES | |
| Ainsworth, Peter (East Surrey) | Eastham, Ken |
| Aitken, Rt Hon Jonathan | Evans, David (Welwyn Hatfield) |
| Alton, David | Evans, Nigel (Ribble Valley) |
| Amess, David | Evans, Roger (Monmouth) |
| Ancram, Rt Hon Michael | Evennett, David |
| Arnold, Jacques (Gravesham) | Faber, David |
| Atkins, Rt Hon Robert | Field, Barry (Isle of Wight) |
| Atkinson, Peter (Hexham) | Forsythe, Clifford (S Antrim) |
| Baker, Rt Hon Kenneth (Mole V) | Fox, Dr Liam (Woodspring) |
| Baker, Nicholas (North Dorset) | Fox, Rt Hon Sir Marcus (Shipley) |
| Banks, Matthew (Southport) | French, Douglas |
| Banks, Robert (Harrogate) | Fry, Sir Peter |
| Bates, Michael | Gale, Roger |
| Batiste, Spencer | Gallie, Phil |
| Beggs, Roy | Gardiner, Sir George |
| Beith, Rt Hon A J | Gill, Christopher |
| Bellingham, Henry | Goodson-Wickes, Dr Charles |
| Bendall, Vivian | Gorst, Sir John |
| Benton, Joe | Grant, Sir A (SW Cambs) |
| Bonsor, Sir Nicholas | Greenway, Harry (Ealing N) |
| Booth, Hartley | Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth, N) |
| Bowis, John | Hague, Rt Hon William |
| Bray, Dr Jeremy | Hamilton, Rt Hon Sir Archibald |
| Bright, Sir Graham | Hamilton, Neil (Tatton) |
| Brooke, Rt Hon Peter | Hannam, Sir John |
| Brown, M (Brigg & Cl'thorpes) | Hanson, David |
| Bruce, Ian (South Dorset) | Hargreaves, Andrew |
| Budgen, Nicholas | Harris, David |
| Burns, Simon | Hawksley, Warren |
| Burt, Alistair | Heathcoat-Amory, Rt Hon David |
| Butcher, John | Hendry, Charles |
| Carlisle, Sir Kenneth (Lincoln) | Higgins, Rt Hon Sir Terence |
| Cash, William | Hoey, Kate |
| Clappison, James | Horam, John |
| Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford) | Hordern, Rt Hon Sir Peter |
| Congdon, David | Howard, Rt Hon Michael |
| Conway, Derek | Howell, Rt Hon David (G'dford) |
| Coombs, Anthony (Wyre For'st) | Hughes, Robert G (Harrow W) |
| Coombs, Simon (Swindon) | Hughes, Simon (Southwark) |
| Curry, David (Skipton & Ripon) | Hunt, Rt Hon David (Wirral W) |
| Dafis, Cynog | Hunter, Andrew |
| Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli) | Jenkin, Bernard |
| Davies, Quentin (Stamford) | Jessel, Toby |
| Davis, David (Boothferry) | Johnson Smith, Sir Geoffrey |
| Day, Stephen | Jones, Barry (Alyn and D'side) |
| Deva, Nirj Joseph | Jones, Robert B (W Hertfdshr) |
| Dixon, Don | Jopling, Rt Hon Michael |
| Dorrell, Rt Hon Stephen | Kellett-Bowman, Dame Elaine |
| Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James | Khabra, Piara S |
| Duncan Smith, Iain | King, Rt Hon Tom |
| Kirkhope, Timothy | Roe, Mrs Marion (Broxbourne) |
| Knapman, Roger | Rowlands, Ted |
| Knight, Mrs Angela (Erewash) | Rumbold, Rt Hon Dame Angela |
| Knight, Dame Jill (Bir'm E'st'n) | Sackville, Tom |
| Lawrence, Sir Ivan | Scott, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas |
| Leigh, Edward | Shaw, David (Dover) |
| Lennox-Boyd, Sir Mark | Shaw, Sir Giles (Pudsey) |
| Lidington, David | Shepherd, Richard (Aldridge) |
| Lilley, Rt Hon Peter | Shersby, Sir Michael |
| Lord, Michael | Skeet, Sir Trevor |
| McAvoy, Thomas | Skinner, Dennis |
| Macdonald, Calum | Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield) |
| McFall, John | Smyth, The Reverend Martin |
| MacGregor, Rt Hon John | Spearing, Nigel |
| Maclean, Rt Hon David | Spellar, John |
| Maclennan, Robert | Spicer, Sir Michael (W Dorset) |
| McLoughlin, Patrick | Spink, Dr Robert |
| Madel, Sir David | Spring, Richard |
| Maitland, Lady Olga | Sproat, Iain |
| Malone, Gerald | Steen, Anthony |
| Marlow, Tony | Steinberg, Gerry |
| Martlew, Eric | Stern, Michael |
| Mates, Michael | Streeter, Gary |
| Merchant, Piers | Sumberg, David |
| Mills Iain | Sweeney, Walter |
| Mitchell, Andrew (Gedling) | Taylor, Rt Hon John D (Strgfd) |
| Molyneaux, Rt Hon Sir James | Thompson, Patrick (Norwich N) |
| Monro, Rt Hon Sir Hector | Thornton, Sir Malcolm |
| Montgomery, Sir Fergus | Timms, Stephen |
| Tracey, Richard | |
| Morris, Rt Hon John (Aberavon) | Tredinnick, David |
| Murphy, Paul | Trend, Michael |
| Neubert, Sir Michael | Twinn, Dr Ian |
| Nicholls, Patrick | Vaughan, Sir Gerard |
| Onslow, Rt Hon Sir Cranley | Walden, George |
| Page, Richard | Walker, Bill (N Tayside) |
| Paice, James | Waller, Gary |
| Paisley, The Reverend Ian | Wardle, Charles (Bexhill) |
| Parry, Robert | Waterson, Nigel |
| Patten, Rt Hon John | Watts, John |
| Pawsey, James | Widdecombe, Ann |
| Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth | Wilkinson, John |
| Porter, David (Waveney) | Willetts, David |
| Powell, Ray (Ogmore) | Wilshire, David |
| Powell, William (Corby) | Winterton, Mrs Ann (Congleton) |
| Redwood, Rt Hon John | Winterton, Nicholas (Macc'f'ld) |
| Reid, Dr John | Wood, Timothy |
| Renton, Rt Hon Tim | Yeo, Tim |
| Riddick, Graham | |
| Robathan, Andrew | Tellers for the Ayes: |
| Roberts, Rt Hon Sir Wyn | Mr. Michael Alison and |
| Robinson, Mark (Somerton) | Mr. Donald Anderson. |
| NOES | |
| Abbott, Ms Diane | Butterfill, John |
| Ainsworth Robert (Cov'try NE) | Byers, Stephen |
| Allen, Graham | Caborn, Richard |
| Anderson, Ms Janet (Ros'dale) | Callaghan, Jim |
| Armstrong, Hilary | Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge) |
| Ashby, David | Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V) |
| Barnes, Harry | Carrington, Matthew |
| Barron, Kevin | Channon, Rt Hon Paul |
| Battle, John | Chapman, Sir Sydney |
| Bayley, Hugh | Chisholm, Malcolm |
| Beckett, Rt Hon Margaret | Clapham, Michael |
| Benn, Rt Hon Tony | Clark, Dr David (South Shields) |
| Bermingham, Gerald | Clarke, Eric (Midlothian) |
| Berry, Roger | Clarke, Rt Hon Kenneth (Ru'clif) |
| Betts, Clive | Clwyd, Mrs Ann |
| Boateng, Paul | Coe, Sebastian |
| Boswell, Tim | Coffey, Ann |
| Bottomley, Rt Hon Virginia | Corbyn, Jeremy |
| Bradley, Keith | Corston, Jean |
| Brandreth, Gyles | Cousins, Jim |
| Burden, Richard | Cunningham, Jim (Covy SE) |
| Butler, Peter | Darling, Alistair |
| Davidson, Ian | Llwyd, Elfyn |
| Denham, John | Loyden, Eddie |
| Devlin, Tim | Luff, Peter |
| Dewar, Donald | Lyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas |
| Dover, Den | Lynne, Ms Liz |
| Dowd, Jim | McCartney, Ian |
| Dunwoody, Mrs Gwyneth | MacKay, Andrew |
| Dykes, Hugh | Mackinlay, Andrew |
| Eagle, Ms Angela | MacShane, Denis |
| Eggar, Rt Hon Tim | Madden, Max |
| Etherington, Bill | Mahon, Alice |
| Evans, Jonathan (Brecon) | Major, Rt Hon John |
| Fabricant, Michael | Marland, Paul |
| Fatchett, Derek | Marshall, John (Hendon S) |
| Fishburn, Dudley | Mawhinney, Rt Hon Dr Brian |
| Fisher, Mark | Maxton, John |
| Forman, Nigel | Mayhew, Rt Hon Sir Patrick |
| Forth, Eric | Meale, Alan |
| Foster, Rt Hon Derek | Michael, Alun |
| Foster, Don (Bath) | Michie, Bill (Sheffield Heeley) |
| Foulkes, George | Milburn, Alan |
| Fowler, Rt Hon Sir Norman | Miller, Andrew |
| Freeman, Rt Hon Roger | Mitchell, Sir David (NW Hants) |
| Galbraith, Sam | Moonie, Dr Lewis |
| Gapes, Mike | Morgan, Rhodri |
| Garel-Jones, Rt Hon Tristan | Morley, Elliot |
| Garnier, Edward | Morris, Estelle (B'ham Yardley) |
| Gerrard, Neil | Mudie, George |
| Gillan, Cheryl | Mullin, Chris |
| Godman, Dr Norman A | Needham, Rt Hon Richard |
| Golding, Mrs Llin | Newton, Rt Hon Tony |
| Goodlad, Rt Hon Alastair | O'Brien, Mike (N W'kshire) |
| Gorman, Mrs Teresa | O'Brien, William (Normanton) |
| Griffiths, Win (Bridgend) | Oppenheim, Phillip |
| Grocott, Bruce | Pattie, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey |
| Gummer, Rt Hon John Selwyn | Pickthall, Colin |
| Hall, Mike | Pike, Peter L |
| Hampson, Dr Keith | Pope, Greg |
| Harman, Ms Harriet | Prentice, Bridget (Lew'm E) |
| Harvey, Nick | Prentice, Gordon (Pendle) |
| Haselhurst, Sir Alan | Primarolo, Dawn |
| Heald, Oliver | Quin, Ms Joyce |
| Heppell, John | Radice, Giles |
| Heseltine, Rt Hon Michael | Raynsford, Nick |
| Hill, Keith (Streatham) | Rendel, David |
| Hodge, Margaret | Robertson, George (Hamilton) |
| Hogg, Norman (Cumbernauld) | Roche, Mrs Barbara |
| Hoon, Geoffrey | Sainsbury, Rt Hon Sir Timothy |
| Howarth, George (Knowsley North) | Shephard, Rt Hon Gillian |
| Hoyle, Doug | Short, Clare |
| Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N) | Simpson, Alan |
| Hutton, John | Sims, Roger |
| Illsley, Eric | Smith, Chris (Isl'ton S & F'sbury) |
| Ingram, Adam | Smith, Llew (Blaenau Gwent) |
| Jack, Michael | Soames, Nicholas |
| Jackson, Glenda (H'stead) | Soley, Clive |
| Jackson, Helen (Shef'ld, H) | Squire, Rachel (Dunfermline W) |
| Jenkins, Brian | Squire, Robin (Hornchurch) |
| Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N) | Stanley, Rt Hon Sir John |
| Jones, Ieuan Wyn (Ynys Môn) | Stevenson, George |
| Jones, Jon Owen (Cardiff C) | Taylor, John M (Solihull) |
| Jones, Lynne (B'ham S O) | Temple-Morris, Peter |
| Jones, Nigel (Cheltenham) | Tipping, Paddy |
| Kennedy, Jane (L'pool Br'dg'n) | Touhig, Don |
| Kirkwood, Archy | Turner, Dennis |
| Knight, Rt Hon Greg (Derby N) | |
| Knox, Sir David | Waldegrave, Rt Hon William |
| Kynoch, George (Kincardine) | Wallace, James |
| Lait, Mrs Jacqui | Ward, John |
| Lang, Rt Hon Ian | Wardell, Gareth (Gower) |
| Liddell, Mrs Helen | Wareing, Robert N |
| Livingstone, Ken | Watson, Mike |
| Lloyd, Rt Hon Sir Peter (Fareham) | Whitney, Ray |
| Lloyd, Tony (Stretford) | Whittingdale, John |
| Wicks, Malcolm | Young, Rt Hon Sir George |
| Wigley, Dafydd | Tellers for the Noes: |
| Worthington, Tony | Mr. Peter Bottomley and |
| Young, David (Bolton SE) | Sir Jim Lester. |
§ on accordingly agreed to.
§ Clause 7, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
§ Dame Jill KnightOn a point of order, Mr. Morris. For 30 years I have been proud to be a loyal Back Bencher, but the vote that has just been taken is unprecedented, as is the fact that, earlier this evening, no fewer than 112 Conservative Members voted, including 11 Ministers and five Whips. Note should be taken of this extraordinary vote.
§ The ChairmanThe hon. Lady is an important constituent of mine, but nevertheless I must tell her that that was not a valid point of order.
§ Mr. PattenFurther to that point of order, Mr. Morris.
§ The ChairmanThere cannot possibly be anything to add to that point, even by the right hon. Gentleman.
§ Mr. PattenOn a separate point of order, Mr. Morris.
§ The ChairmanOrder. That is a remarkable change in so few seconds.
§ Mr. PattenIt is a new point of order. Would it be in order for the Lord President and Leader of the House to approach you tonight if he wished to make a statement on Government business in light of this evening's vote, and the fact that an overwhelming majority—
§ The ChairmanOrder. The Chairman does not anticipate anything that is likely to happen later.
§ Bill (Clauses 5 and 7), as amended, to be reported.
§ To lie upon the Table.