§ Mr. Tony Favell (Stockport)I beg to move,
That leave be given to bring in a Bill to introduce a British identity card; and for other purposes.With the British passport due to disappear in 1992, the time has come for us to introduce a British identity card and I intend that it be British passport blue. There can be few people who are not asked to supply proof of identity from time to time and many are regularly obliged to do so. These days we cannot enter most clubs, as well as many places of work and Government buildings, without having to identify ourselves. Moreover, it is virtually impossible to cash a cheque without a cheque card.The identity card that I propose will be issued to everyone over 18 years of age. It will be the size of a credit card and will contain the holder's photograph, his or her name and address, date of birth and signature. It will be computer readable which will minimise fraud.
An identity card of the type that I propose will help in the battle against football hooliganism. It will enable immigration authorities to identify hooligans upon whom I hope the courts will soon be able to impose travel restrictions. It will assist football clubs in identifying those whom they wish to ban from their grounds. It will also help in the fight against terrorism and crime in general.
One of the problems in identifying the IRA is that its members are free to enter Britain from the Republic of Ireland without a passport or, indeed, any form of identification. After a terrorist attack such as the appalling atrocity at Lisburn last week, it would greatly assist the security forces if those manning road blocks could readily ascertain whether people had come from far afield or were merely going about their normal day-to-day business.
Some of the nastiest crimes today are those inflicted on the elderly. It is now commonplace to read in the newspapers of crooks and thugs worming their way into old people's homes, often posing as gas men, meter readers or council officials. An instantly recognisable identity card from which details could be taken before admittance would help to deter those who prey on the most susceptible members of our society.
I recognise the fear that an identity card system could be seen as an intrusion on the privacy of the individual. An important part of my Bill will limit the information included on the card and limit those who will have access to that information. Clearly, the Revenue and the DHSS will be able to insist on its production to help eliminate fraud, the police will be able to ask for it when a crime has been committed or is anticipated and immigration authorities will be entitled to inspect it. That will help in the fight against terrorism and should eliminate the need for passports to travel to other countries in Europe.
It will be up to the holder to decide whether to show the card to private individuals. If he does not, the person asking to see it will be able to draw his own conclusions, in the absence of a reasonable explanation.
I know that some will oppose the introduction of an identity card on the ground that it will infringe civil liberties. But the liberty of law-abiding citizens in Northern Ireland is already infringed by terrorists, the liberty of the elderly is infringed by bogus officials and the 989 liberty of decent football fans to watch a football match free from violence and obscene gestures should be maintained.
My Bill will be of great benefit to honest, law-abiding citizens, which most British people are, and I commend it to the House.
§ Mr. David Winnick (Walsall, North)I oppose the measure which the hon. Member seeks to introduce. The introduction of identity cards is a wholly undesirable practice, far more associated with dictatorships than with democracies, except in wartime. There are, of course, various kinds of documentation relating to national insurance, health services, and so on, which are for specific reasons. However, such documents do not have to be carried on a daily basis, and one can be pretty certain that once an identity card is necessary it will be a requirement that the citizen carry it around with him on all occasions; he will be so required by the police. As I have said, the practice has far more in common with Eastern Europe than with Western-type democracy.
This is part of an authoritarian tendency in the Conservative party to try to control the lives of citizens as much as possible and have records on everybody in the country. I suppose that it is not surprising that a party which showed no concern and made no protest when Cathy Massiter exposed what was happening in the security services, when people were being questioned, had files drawn up on them and had their telephones tapped, should want to continue down a road that is completely undemocratic.
It is nonsense, as the hon. Member knows full well, to say that the issuing of identity cards will stop the football hooligans who are such a disgrace to our country, or stop crooks entering the homes of elderly people. The hon. Gentleman is certainly misleading the House when he makes such remarks.
I believe that this country requires less documentation and less control over the citizen. That is why I believe that acceptance of the hon. Gentleman's proposal for an identity card in peacetime would be a retrograde step. Tory Members who vote for the Bill—there will be no Opposition Members—will show clearly that they want to continue down the road of further controls on the private citizen. We have said that it is the Conservative party, not the Labour Opposition, which is so keen on Eastern Europe practices and the hon. Gentleman, by his Bill, make our point very well indeed.
§ Question put, pursuant to Standing Order No. 19 (Motion for leave to bring in Bills and nomination of Select Committees at commencement of public business):—
§ The House divided: Ayes 114, Noes 172.
991| Division No. 369] | [4.44 pm |
| AYES | |
| Adley, Robert | Bendall, Vivian |
| Aitken, Jonathan | Benyon, W. |
| Alexander, Richard | Bevan, David Gilroy |
| Alison, Rt Hon Michael | Boswell, Tim |
| Ashby, David | Bowden, Gerald (Dulwich) |
| Aspinwall, Jack | Braine, Rt Hon Sir Bernard |
| Atkinson, David | Brazier, Julian |
| Banks, Robert (Harrogate) | Bright, Graham |
| Beaumont-Dark, Anthony | Brown, Michael (Brigg & Cl't's) |
| Browne, John (Winchester) | Knapman, Roger |
| Bruce, Ian (Dorset South) | Lloyd, Sir Ian (Havant) |
| Budgen, Nicholas | McCrindle, Robert |
| Butler, Chris | McCusker, Harold |
| Butterfill, John | Macfarlane, Sir Neil |
| Carlisle, John, (Luton N) | McNair-Wilson, Sir Michael |
| Chapman, Sydney | Marland, Paul |
| Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford) | Marlow, Tony |
| Clark, Sir W. (Croydon S) | Marshall, Michael (Arundel) |
| Colvin, Michael | Martin, David (Portsmouth S) |
| Curry, David | Mates, Michael |
| Day, Stephen | Maxwell-Hyslop, Robin |
| Devlin, Tim | Meyer, Sir Anthony |
| Dicks, Terry | Mills, Iain |
| Evans, David (Welwyn Hatf'd) | Morris, M (N'hampton S) |
| Evennett, David | Morrison, Sir Charles |
| Favell, Tony | Moss, Malcolm |
| Fenner, Dame Peggy | Mudd, David |
| Field, Barry (Isle of Wight) | Nicholson, David (Taunton) |
| Fookes, Miss Janet | Nicholson, Emma (Devon West) |
| Forth, Eric | Page, Richard |
| Fox, Sir Marcus | Paice, James |
| Franks, Cecil | Patnick, Irvine |
| Fry, Peter | Pawsey, James |
| Gale, Roger | Price, Sir David |
| Gardiner, George | Ridsdale, Sir Julian |
| Gill, Christopher | Rost, Peter |
| Goodhart, Sir Philip | Sackville, Hon Tom |
| Goodson-Wickes, Dr Charles | Sayeed, Jonathan |
| Greenway, Harry (Ealing N) | Shaw, Sir Giles (Pudsey) |
| Greenway, John (Ryedale) | Sims, Roger |
| Gregory, Conal | Skeet, Sir Trevor |
| Griffiths, Peter (Portsmouth N) | Smyth, Rev Martin (Belfast S) |
| Grylls, Michael | Spicer, Sir Jim (Dorset W) |
| Hampson, Dr Keith | Stanbrook, Ivor |
| Hargreaves, A. (B'ham H'll Gr') | Steen, Anthony |
| Hargreaves, Ken (Hyndburn) | Stewart, Allan (Eastwood) |
| Haselhurst, Alan | Taylor, Rt Hon J. D. (S'ford) |
| Hicks, Mrs Maureen (Wolv' NE) | Thornton, Malcolm |
| Hill, James | Walker, Bill (T'side North) |
| Holt, Richard | Watts, John |
| Howell, Ralph (North Norfolk) | Whitney, Ray |
| Howells, Geraint | Widdecombe, Ann |
| Hughes, Robert G. (Harrow W) | Wilkinson, John |
| Hunter, Andrew | Winterton, Mrs Ann |
| Irvine, Michael | Winterton, Nicholas |
| Janman, Tim | |
| Jessel, Toby | Tellers for the Ayes: |
| Kellett-Bowman, Dame Elaine | Mr. John Townend and Mr. Jacques Arnold. |
| Kilfedder, James |
| NOES | |
| Abbott, Ms Diane | Clark, Dr David (S Shields) |
| Allen, Graham | Clay, Bob |
| Alton, David | Clelland, David |
| Archer, Rt Hon Peter | Clwyd, Mrs Ann |
| Armstrong, Hilary | Coleman, Donald |
| Ashley, Rt Hon Jack | Cook, Frank (Stockton N) |
| Ashton, Joe | Cook, Robin (Livingston) |
| Barnes, Harry (Derbyshire NE) | Corbyn, Jeremy |
| Barron, Kevin | Crowther, Stan |
| Battle, John | Cryer, Bob |
| Beckett, Margaret | Cummings, John |
| Bennett, A. F. (D'nt'n & R'dish) | Davies, Q. (Stamf'd & Spald'g) |
| Bennett, Nicholas (Pembroke) | Davies, Ron (Caerphilly) |
| Bidwell, Sydney | Davis, Terry (B'ham Hodge H'l) |
| Blair, Tony | Dixon, Don |
| Body, Sir Richard | Doran, Frank |
| Bradley, Keith | Douglas, Dick |
| Bruce, Malcolm (Gordon) | Dover, Den |
| Buchan, Norman | Duffy, A. E. P. |
| Buckley, George J. | Dunnachie, Jimmy |
| Caborn, Richard | Dunwoody, Hon Mrs Gwyneth |
| Callaghan, Jim | Eadie, Alexander |
| Campbell, Menzies (Fife NE) | Eastham, Ken |
| Campbell, Ron (Blyth Valley) | Evans, John (St Helens N) |
| Campbell-Savours, D. N. | Ewing, Harry (Falkirk E) |
| Canavan, Dennis | Ewing, Mrs Margaret (Moray) |
| Carlile, Alex (Monfg) | Fatchett, Derek |
| Cartwright, John | Fearn, Ronald |
| Fields, Terry (L'pool B n) | Michael, Alun |
| Fisher, Mark | Michie, Bill (Sheffield Heeley) |
| Flannery, Martin | Michie, Mrs Ray (Arg'l & Bute) |
| Flynn, Paul | Morley, Elliott |
| Foot, Rt Hon Michael | Morris, Rt Hon A. (W'shawe) |
| Foulkes, George | Morris, Rt Hon J. (Aberavon) |
| French, Douglas | Mullin, Chris |
| Galbraith, Sam | Nellist, Dave |
| Galloway, George | Oakes, Rt Hon Gordon |
| Garrett, John (Norwich South) | O'Brien, William |
| George, Bruce | O'Neill, Martin |
| Godman, Dr Norman A. | Parry, Robert |
| Golding, Mrs Llin | Patchett, Terry |
| Gordon, Mildred | Pike, Peter L. |
| Gould, Bryan | Powell, Ray (Ogmore) |
| Graham, Thomas | Primarolo, Dawn |
| Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S) | Radice, Giles |
| Grocott, Bruce | Randall, Stuart |
| Hattersley, Rt Hon Roy | Redmond, Martin |
| Haynes, Frank | Redwood, John |
| Heffer, Eric S. | Reid, Dr John |
| Henderson, Doug | Richardson, Jo |
| Hinchliffe, David | Roberts, Allan (Bootle) |
| Hogg, N. (C'nauld & Kilsyth) | Ruddock, Joan |
| Hood, Jimmy | Salmond, Alex |
| Howarth, George (Knowsley N) | Sedgemore, Brian |
| Howell, Rt Hon D. (S'heath) | Sheldon, Rt Hon Robert |
| Hoyle, Doug | Short, Clare |
| Hughes, John (Coventry NE) | Skinner, Dennis |
| Hughes, Roy (Newport E) | Smith, Andrew (Oxford E) |
| Hughes, Sean (Knowsley S) | Smith, C. (IsI'ton & F'bury) |
| Hughes, Simon (Southwark) | Smith, Rt Hon J. (Monk'ds E) |
| Illsley, Eric | Soley, Clive |
| Jones, Barry (Alyn & Deeside) | Spearing, Nigel |
| Jones, Martyn (Clwyd S W) | Steinberg, Gerry |
| Kirkwood, Archy | Stott, Roger |
| Lambie, David | Strang, Gavin |
| Lamond, James | Straw, Jack |
| Leadbitter, Ted | Taylor, Mrs Ann (Dewsbury) |
| Leighton, Ron | Taylor, Matthew (Truro) |
| Lestor, Joan (Eccles) | Turner, Dennis |
| Lewis, Terry | Wall, Pat |
| Litherland, Robert | Wallace, James |
| Livsey, Richard | Walley, Joan |
| Lofthouse, Geoffrey | Wardell, Gareth (Gower) |
| McAllion, John | Wareing, Robert N. |
| McCartney, Ian | Welsh, Andrew (Angus E) |
| McFall, John | Welsh, Michael (Doncaster N) |
| McKelvey, William | Wigley, Dafydd |
| McLeish, Henry | Williams, Rt Hon Alan |
| McTaggart, Bob | Williams, Alan W. (Carm'then) |
| McWilliam, John | Wilson, Brian |
| Madden, Max | Winnick, David |
| Marshall, David (Shettleston) | Worthington, Tony |
| Marshall, Jim (Leicester S) | Wray, Jimmy |
| Martin, Michael J. (Springburn) | Young, David (Bolton SE) |
| Martlew, Eric | |
| Maxton, John | Tellers for the Noes: |
| Meacher, Michael | Dr. Lewis Moonie and Mrs. Maria Fyfe. |
| Meale, Alan |
§ Question accordingly negatived.