§ Q1. Mr. Maloneasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 31 July.
§ The Prime Minister (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in this House, I shall be having further meetings later today.
§ Mr. MaloneNow that trade union leaders throughout the country have declared openly that they intend to flout not only the civil, but the criminal law of the land, is not their battle no longer against the Government but against the will of Parliament? Will my right hon. Friend take this opportunity to invite the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition to retire from the side of King Arthur and stand by her in the defence of the rule of law?
§ The Prime MinisterI agree with my hon. Friend. We are all subject to the rule of law. The law is made by Parliament and impartially administered by Her Majesty's judges. We cannot choose with which we agree. We must obey it all, together.
§ Mr. SteelBefore the House goes into recess, will the Prime Minister explain why she remains so resistant to a parliamentary inquiry into the security services?
§ The Prime MinisterFor reasons which have frequently been expressed, I see no point in a parliamentary inquiry into the security services. It is necessary for their effectiveness that there be a degree of secrecy that does not apply to other matters in this House.
§ Mr. MatesWill my right hon. Friend take this opportunity, in the light of recent statements by the Labour party, to reaffirm the Government's total commitment to 216 nuclear and conventional defence through NATO, to our replacement of Trident as the independent nuclear deterrent, and to our continued support of our American allies, who support NATO from bases in this country? Is this not still the clearest distinction that the electors can draw between a Government committed to sound defence and a craven Opposition whose latest attempt to fudge the issues could perhaps best be described as heads under the bed?
§ The Prime MinisterYes. I am grateful to my hon. Friend. The nuclear deterrent is a fundamental part of NATO defence, and we have been foremost in providing it. I do not see how we can remain a member of NATO, having provided some of its nuclear deterrent, and fundamentally pull out of our role in nuclear deterrence. As the right hon. Gentleman said, there is some ambiguity in trying to maintain it.
§ Q2. Mr. Dobsonasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 31 July.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave earlier.
§ Mr. DobsonDoes the Prime Minister share the view of the Lord Chief Justice that the police and the Customs and Excise are proving incapable of stopping the flood of hard drugs into this country? Will she, as head of the security services, instruct every branch of those services to disclose to the police any evidence of drug trafficking in this country and by British citizens outside this country?
§ The Prime MinisterI believe that that part of Customs and Excise which deals with drugs has had an increase in staff; and it does very good work. I saw what the Lord Chief Justice said. My only comment about that is that the maximum sentence for peddling drugs is 14 years' imprisonment.
§ Q3. Mr. Andrew MacKayasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 31 July.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.
§ Mr. MacKayDuring her very busy day, will my right hon. Friend find time to consider increasing the funds made available to the Leader of the Opposition for financing his private office, bearing in mind the unfortunate episode last Thursday afternoon when, apparently because of an out-of-date reference book, he twice mistakenly referred to Standard Telephones and Cables as being American-owned?
§ The Prime MinisterAs my hon. Friend knows, I have often said that throwing money at a problem does not solve it.
§ Mr. AshtonWill the Prime Minister find time today to give some advice to those millions of owner-occupiers throughout the country who next month will, on average, have to find an extra £25 a month for their mortgages? Would she advise them to ask for a bigger pay rise, or to cut their standard of living?
§ The Prime MinisterI regret very much the increase in interest rates which led to the increase in mortgage rates. However, many people would rather pay a slightly higher mortgage rate than not have the privilege of buying their council house, which the Labour party would deny them.
§ Mr. KinnockDoes the Prime Minister realise that for millions of householders, especially in London and the south-east, the rise in the cost of mortgage repayments will be greater than the total cost of their yearly rates? [Interruption.]
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I appeal to the House to allow the Leader of the Opposition to ask his question.
§ Mr. KinnockGiven the right hon. Lady's concern for home ownership, which I share, when will we have mortgage-capping?
§ The Prime MinisterIt would have been better if the right hon. Gentleman had done everything that he could to see that interest rates did not go up to their present level and to try to secure their reduction now, by trying to bring the current strike to an end. I am grateful for the fact that he appears to be a late convert to rate-capping.
§ Q4. Mr. Proctorasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 31 July.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer my hon. Friend to the reply which I gave some moments ago.
§ Mr. ProctorHas my right hon. Friend had the misfortune to see the striking miners' slogan, "Coal, not dole"? Will she confirm that the cost to the taxpayer in the past financial year was £130 per miner a week, or £1.3 billion? Does my right hon. Friend consider that a taxpayer's dole is a taxpayer's dole, whether it is paid by the DHSS or the National Coal Board?
§ The Prime MinisterThe figures in the question asked by my hon. Friend are correct. One point about making considerable sums of money available to the National Coal Board and the mining industry is to enable the required structural change to take place to allow us to come out of uneconomic pits and to make good investment in new pits, and have better working conditions, better productivity and more competitively priced coal. If it achieves that objective it will have been worth it.
§ Q5. Mr. Tony Lloydasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 31 July.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply which I gave some moments ago.
§ Mr. LloydDoes the Prime Minister really believe that sequestration of the funds of the National Union of Mineworkers will do anything to resolve the present dispute in the coal industry?
§ The Prime MinisterI answered that question by implication some time ago. The law is as it has been passed in the House and its administration by Her Majesty's judiciary is impartial. As the hon. Gentleman will have heard, we all have to obey that law, whether we like it or not.
§ Mr. MoateDoes my right hon. Friend welcome, as did my hon. Friend the Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs yesterday, that in future the European Assembly will lose the power to prevent the repayment of British rebates? If so, is that not the first time that the Government have welcomed a reduction in the powers of the European Assembly; and may we take that as a statement of general policy?
§ The Prime MinisterMy hon. Friend is correct in his conclusion that the long-term settlement of the budget payments of this country that we reached at Fontainebleau 218 will remove the role of the European Assembly as far as it applies to our refunds. The refunds will be automatic and will not have to be approved by the European Assembly. That is good news and I point out to my hon. Friend that any increase in the powers of the European Assembly that has taken place since the treaty was signed occurred during the lifetime of the Labour Government.
§ Q6. Mr. Flanneryasked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 31 July.
§ The Prime MinisterI refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply which I gave some moments ago.
§ Mr. FlanneryHas the Prime Minister realised that, having failed to starve the miners back to work, having taken from them £15 which the Government had no right to take, having starved their children and wives, one of her tame Tory judges—
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I ask the hon. Member to take care how he phrases his question.
§ Mr. FlanneryThat one of her tame Tory judges—
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. The hon. Member knows that he cannot say that. I ask him to rephrase his question.
§ Mr. FlanneryMr. Speaker, I will do no such thing There are tame Tory judges—
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I must ask the hon. Member to withdraw those words, and to rephrase his question. First, I ask him to withdraw that charge.
§ Mr. FlanneryI will not withdraw it.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. The hon. Member must withdraw that charge or I shall be forced to take extreme action. The hon. Member is a very experienced parliamentarian. I now give him an opportunity to withdraw those words and to continue with his question.
§ Mr. FlanneryNo, I will not withdraw it.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I name Mr. Martin Flannery.
§ Motion made, and Question put.
§ That Mr. Martin Flannery be suspended from the service of the House.—[Mr. Biffen.]
§ The House divided: Ayes 260, Noes 80.
220| Division No. 465] | [3.30 pm |
| AYES | |
| Adley, Robert | Boscawen, Hon Robert |
| Aitken, Jonathan | Bottomley, Peter |
| Alexander, Richard | Bottomley, Mrs Virginia |
| Alison, Rt Hon Michael | Bowden, Gerald (Dulwich) |
| Amery, Rt Hon Julian | Boyson, Dr Rhodes |
| Ancram, Michael | Brandon-Bravo, Martin |
| Aspinwall, Jack | Bright, Graham |
| Atkins, Rt Hon Sir H. | Brinton, Tim |
| Atkins, Robert (South Ribble) | Brittan, Rt Hon Leon |
| Baldry, Tony | Brown, M. (Brigg & Cl'thpes) |
| Batiste, Spencer | Browne, John |
| Beith, A. J, | Bruce, Malcolm |
| Bendall, Vivian | Bruinvels, Peter |
| Benyon, William | Bryan, Sir Paul |
| Berry, Sir Anthony | Buck, Sir Antony |
| Best, Keith | Budgen, Nick |
| Bevan, David Gilroy | Carlisle, Kenneth (Lincoln) |
| Biffen, Rt Hon John | Carttiss, Michael |
| Biggs-Davison, Sir John | Cartwright, John |
| Blaker, Rt Hon Sir Peter | Cash, William |
| Bonsor, Sir Nicholas | Chalker, Mrs Lynda |
| Chapman, Sydney | Irving, Charles |
| Chope, Christopher | Jackson, Robert |
| Churchill, W. S. | Jenkin, Rt Hon Patrick |
| Clark, Hon A. (Plym'th S'n) | Jenkins, Rt Hon Roy (Hillh'd) |
| Clark, Dr Michael (Rochford) | Jessel, Toby |
| Clark, Sir W. (Croydon S) | Johnson Smith, Sir Geoffrey |
| Clegg, Sir Walter | Jones, Gwilym (Cardiff N) |
| Colvin, Michael | Jones, Robert (W Herts) |
| Conway, Derek | Jopling, Rt Hon Michael |
| Coombs, Simon | Kellett-Bowman, Mrs Elaine |
| Cope, John | Kennedy, Charles |
| Cormack, Patrick | Kershaw, Sir Anthony |
| Crouch, David | Key, Robert |
| Currie, Mrs Edwina | Kilfedder, James A. |
| Dickens, Geoffrey | King, Roger (B'ham N'field) |
| Dorrell, Stephen | King, Rt Hon Tom |
| Douglas-Hamilton, Lord J. | Kirkwood, Archy |
| Durant, Tony | Knight, Gregory (Derby N) |
| Dykes, Hugh | Knight, Mrs Jill (Edgbaston) |
| Edwards, Rt Hon N. (P'broke) | Knox, David |
| Eggar, Tim | Lang, Ian |
| Emery, Sir Peter | Latham, Michael |
| Eyre, Sir Reginald | Lawler, Geoffrey |
| Fallon, Michael | Lawrence, Ivan |
| Farr, Sir John | Leigh, Edward (Gainsbor'gh) |
| Favell, Anthony | Lennox-Boyd, Hon Mark |
| Fenner, Mrs Peggy | Lewis, Sir Kenneth (Stamf'd) |
| Fletcher, Alexander | Lightbown, David |
| Fookes, Miss Janet | Lilley, Peter |
| Forman, Nigel | Lloyd, Ian (Havant) |
| Forsyth, Michael (Stirling) | Lloyd, Peter, (Fareham) |
| Forsythe, Clifford (S Antrim) | Lyell, Nicholas |
| Forth, Eric | McCrindle, Robert |
| Fox, Marcus | McCurley, Mrs Anna |
| Franks, Cecil | MacKay, Andrew (Berkshire) |
| Fraser, Peter (Angus East) | MacKay, John (Argyll & Bute) |
| Freeman, Roger | Maclean, David John |
| Gale, Roger | McQuarrie, Albert |
| Gardiner, George (Reigate) | Madel, David |
| Gardner, Sir Edward (Fylde) | Malone, Gerald |
| Glyn, Dr Alan | Marland, Paul |
| Goodlad, Alastair | Marlow, Antony |
| Gow, Ian | Marshall, Michael (Arundel) |
| Gower, Sir Raymond | Mates, Michael |
| Grant, Sir Anthony | Mawhinney, Dr Brian |
| Greenway, Harry | Maxwell-Hyslop, Robin |
| Gregory, Conal | Mellor, David |
| Griffiths, E. (B'y St Edm'ds) | Merchant, Piers |
| Grist, Ian | Meyer, Sir Anthony |
| Grylls, Michael | Miller, Hal (B'grove) |
| Gummer, John Selwyn | Mills, Sir Peter (West Devon) |
| Hamilton, Hon A. (Epsom) | Mitchell, David (NW Hants) |
| Hamilton, Neil (Tatton) | Moate, Roger |
| Hampson, Dr Keith | Molyneaux, Rt Hon James |
| Hancock, Mr. Michael | Monro, Sir Hector |
| Hanley, Jeremy | Montgomery, Fergus |
| Hannam, John | Mudd, David |
| Harris, David | Murphy, Christopher |
| Harrison, Rt Hon Walter | Nelson, Anthony |
| Harvey, Robert | Neubert, Michael |
| Hawkins, Sir Paul (SW N'folk) | Nicholson, J. |
| Hawksley, Warren | Normanton, Tom |
| Hayes, J. | Onslow, Cranley |
| Hayhoe, Barney | Osborn, Sir John |
| Heath, Rt Hon Edward | Page, Sir John (Harrow W) |
| Heathcoat-Amory, David | Page, Richard (Herts SW) |
| Heddle, John | Patten, John (Oxford) |
| Henderson, Barry | Pawsey, James |
| Hickmet, Richard | Peacock, Mrs Elizabeth |
| Hill, James | Percival, Rt Hon Sir Ian |
| Hind, Kenneth | Pollock, Alexander |
| Hirst, Michael | Powell, Rt Hon J. E. (S Down) |
| Holt, Richard | Powley, John |
| Hordern, Peter | Price, Sir David |
| Howard, Michael | Proctor, K. Harvey |
| Howarth, Alan (Stratf'd-on-A) | Pym, Rt Hon Francis |
| Howarth, Gerald (Cannock) | Raffan, Keith |
| Hubbard-Miles, Peter | Renton, Tim |
| Hunt, David (Wirral) | Rhodes James, Robert |
| Hunter, Andrew | Rifkind, Malcolm |
| Roe, Mrs Marion | Thorne, Neil (Ilford S) |
| Rossi, Sir Hugh | Thornton, Malcolm |
| Rost, Peter | Thurnham, Peter |
| Rowe, Andrew | Townend, John (Bridlington) |
| Rumbold, Mrs Angela | Twinn, Dr Ian |
| Ryder, Richard | van Straubenzee, Sir W. |
| Sackville, Hon Thomas | Vaughan, Sir Gerard |
| Sainsbury, Hon Timothy | Wainwright, R. |
| Sayeed, Jonathan | Wakeham, Rt Hon John |
| Shaw, Giles (Pudsey) | Waldegrave, Hon William |
| Shaw, Sir Michael (Scarb') | Walker, Cecil (Belfast N) |
| Shelton, William (Streatham) | Walker, Rt Hon P. (W'cester) |
| Silvester, Fred | Wallace, James |
| Sims, Roger | Waller, Gary |
| Skeet, T. H. H. | Ward, John |
| Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield) | Watson, John |
| Spicer, Jim (W Dorset) | Watts, John |
| Stanbrook, Ivor | Wells, Bowen (Hertford) |
| Steel, Rt Hon David | Wells, Sir John (Maidstone) |
| Stern, Michael | Wheeler, John |
| Stevens, Lewis (Nuneaton) | Whitney, Raymond |
| Stewart, Allan (Eastwood) | Wiggin, Jerry |
| Stewart, Andrew (Sherwood) | Wood, Timothy |
| Stokes, John | Woodcock, Michael |
| Stradling Thomas, J. | Yeo, Tim |
| Sumberg, David | Young, Sir George (Acton) |
| Tapsell, Peter | Younger, Rt Hon George |
| Temple-Morris, Peter | |
| Thatcher, Rt Hon Mrs M. | Tellers for the Ayes: |
| Thompson, Donald (Calder V) | Mr. John Major and Mr. Douglas Hogg. |
| Thompson, Patrick (N'ich N) |
| NOES | |
| Ashton, Joe | Litherland, Robert |
| Barron, Kevin | Lloyd, Tony (Stretford) |
| Benn, Tony | Lofthouse, Geoffrey |
| Bennett, A. (Dent'n & Red'sh) | McCartney, Hugh |
| Bermingham, Gerald | McKay, Allen (Penistone) |
| Bidwell, Sydney | McNamara, Kevin |
| Boyes, Roland | Madden, Max |
| Brown, N. (N'c'tle-u-Tyne E) | Marshall, David (Shettleston) |
| Buchan, Norman | Maynard, Miss Joan |
| Caborn, Richard | Michie, William |
| Callaghan, Jim (Heyw'd & M) | Mikardo, Ian |
| Clwyd, Mrs Ann | Miller, Dr M. S. (E Kilbride) |
| Cohen, Harry | Nellist, David |
| Cook, Frank (Stockton North) | Park, George |
| Corbett, Robin | Parry, Robert |
| Cunliffe, Lawrence | Patchett, Terry |
| Dalyell, Tam | Pavitt, Laurie |
| Davies, Ronald (Caerphilly) | Pendry, Tom |
| Davis, Terry (B'ham, H'ge H'l) | Pike, Peter |
| Deakins, Eric | Powell, Raymond (Ogmore) |
| Dobson, Frank | Redmond, M. |
| Douglas, Dick | Richardson, Ms Jo |
| Dubs, Alfred | Roberts, Ernest (Hackney N) |
| Eadie, Alex | Rogers, Allan |
| Eastham, Ken | Rooker, J. W. |
| Edwards, Bob (W'h'mpfn SE) | Ross, Ernest (Dundee W) |
| Evans, John (St. Helens N) | Short, Ms Clare (Ladywood) |
| Fatchett, Derek | Smith, C.(Isl'ton S & F'bury) |
| Fields, T. (L'pool Broad Gn) | Soley, Clive |
| Fisher, Mark | Straw, Jack |
| Flannery, Martin | Thompson, J. (Wansbeck) |
| Garrett, W. E. | Thorne, Stan (Preston) |
| Godman, Dr Norman | Wardell, Gareth (Gower) |
| Golding, John | Wareing, Robert |
| Hardy, Peter | Welsh, Michael |
| Harman, Ms Harriet | Wigley, Dafydd |
| Heffer, Eric S. | Winnick, David |
| Hughes, Roy (Newport East) | Young, David (Bolton SE) |
| Hughes, Sean (Knowsley S) | |
| Lamond, James | Tellers for the Noes: |
| Leighton, Ronald | Mr. Dennis Skinner and Mr. Dennis Canavan. |
| Lewis, Terence (Worsley) |
§ Question accordingly agreed to.
221Ordered,That Mr. Martin Flannery be suspended from the service of the House.
§ The hon. Member withdrew.
§ Mr. Allen McKayOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker
§ Mr. SpeakerI shall take points of order not connected with that matter later.
§ Mr. SpeakerNo, we have finished with Prime Minister's Questions.