§ Amendments made: No. 40, in page 66, line 12, column 3, leave out from 'Act"' to end of line 15.
§
No. 41, in page 66, line 28, column 3, at end insert—
'In section 8(8) the words from the beginning to "and".'.—[Mr. Stanley.]
§ Order for Third reading read.—[Queen's Consent, on behalf of the Crown, and Prince of Wales' Consent signified.]
11.11 pm§ Mr. StanleyI beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.
§ Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Bernard Weatherill)Mr. Speaker has not selected the amendment.
§ Mr. StanleyThis Bill embodies two quite different but equally radical and, in our view, beneficial reforming measures: the reform of building control and the further extension of the right to buy and also of the tenant's charter. The first will, I am in no doubt, prove to be of long-term benefit to the construction industry and the second will enable more tenants to take advantage of the unique opportunity of home ownership that this Government have made available to them.
The efficiency and speed of the building control system bear directly on the efficiency and speed of the entire construction process and, equally, the form of the building regulations themselves—their intelligibility, their flexibility, their ability to reflect higher building standards and advances in building materials—is crucial to the success and competitiveness of our construction industry.
§ Mr. R. C. Mitchell (Southampton, Itchen)Is the Minister aware that there has been a great deal of dissatisfaction with the section of the Bill dealing with building regulations and that many hon. Members have had large amounts of correspondence on this from 981 professional organisations and NALGO, which argue that the Bill will weaken the whole system of building control? What are the Minister's comments on that?
§ Mr. StanleyWe have debated this at great length, over many months. Broadly, our comments are that as far as the form of the building regulations is concerned, there is a remarkable degree of unanimity that the particular changes we propose to make are highly desirable. The change of the option of private sector certification is more contentious, but it is our view that nothing has occurred since Second Reading to suggest that it is not perfectly feasible and reasonable to offer the option of private certification. Therefore, we are inviting the House to give the Bill a Third Reading on the basis, essentially, on which it was introduced in that respect.
Building control is certainly complicated. It is technically and legally difficult. I acknowledge, too, that electorally the reform of building control has no great appeal. It is indicative of the way in which the present Government are concentrating, even in the last full session of this Parliament, on matters of strategic and long-term importance to key sections of the economy, of which the construction industry is one, that we have given time to the building control proposals.
The Opposition have found something to complain of in the building control proposals. Their complaints seem to stem from the deep prejudices that we know they have against the private sector, and they have sought to prophesy that every imaginable apocalypse would result from the enactment of these proposals. The Opposition argued in Committee that there would be be danger to public safety, that buildings would collapse. The hon. Member for Bootle (Mr. Roberts) said that an orgy of corruption would sweep through the ranks of the architects, surveyors and structural engineers and that the greatest den of iniquity of all would the one body that can do private certification more or less immediately—the National House Building Council.
Listening to the Opposition's observations on the building control proposals, I was reminded of the debates that took place about 150 years ago, when leading landowning peers in another place sought to resist the early Bills to build railway lines. They argued with total conviction that the predictable and certain effect of building railways across the fields of rural England was that the cows would cease to calve for evermore. Just as that argument was shown to have no basis in reality, equally the Opposition's dire prophesies about the building control provisions in this Bill will not be borne out in practice.
I am certain that the building control proposals, the new building regulations, in the form of functional requirements and approved documents, will prove a significant advance on the existing regulations. I acknowledge that both the functional requirements and the approved documents are extremely important. We are anxious to make certain that we get the detail correct, and we shall continue, as we have done for more than two years, to consult closely about the detailed form of the functional requirements and the approved documents. Equally, I am sure that the private certification option will prove practicable—earlier in some areas, such as low-rise housing, than in others—and that it will be a useful and beneficial extension of choice for builders.
982 There is no compelling or necessary reason why building control should remain a public sector monopoly. The skills and expertise required are as available in the private sector as they are in the public sector. There are no grounds for claiming that private sector architects, surveyors and structural engineers have less skill or less professional integrity than their counterparts in the public sector. I believe that after a few years' operation of the system of private certification, the question asked will be not why we did it but why we did not do it very much sooner. The new building regulations and the introduction of private certification are sensible and worthwhile strategic and industrial reforms to be added to the many others that the Government have introduced in industry.
Equally worthwhile and sensible are the new rights for secure tenants of local authorities, new towns and housing associations in the Bill. I am not simply referring to the right to buy. One of this Government's most important housing achievements has been the transformation that we have secured in the legal status and legal rights of the 6 million families who rent in the public sector through the tenants' charter—the tenants' charter that was voted down by the Labour Government in 1977, and which was reintroduced only as an empty political gesture in March 1979, when it had no chance of reaching the statute book.
The Bill will extend the tenants' charter in two important respects. It will extend the right to improve that we introduced in the 1980 Act by giving a right to repair as well, but this time with the tenant being able to claim reimbursement from the local authority. The local authority will be able to save money, because the amount of the reimbursement can never be more than what it would cost the local authority to do the repairs itself, and it can be less. The tenant also gains by being able to get his repairs done more quickly. Councils such as the London borough of Havering have shown that a right to repair is administratively practical and financially cost-effective. Getting repairs done is perhaps now the biggest single problem for tenants generally in the public sector. I am glad that we can give some useful help here through the right-to-repair scheme.
The other extension of the tenants' charter is the amendment that I moved earlier to give greater statutory protection to those hundreds of thousands of tenants on district and communal heating systems. Many of those tenants face high heating charges with no right to information as to how they are calculated and no right to challenge those charges in court if the basis on which they are assessed is not in the tenant's view reasonable. The Bill will provide such rights and is a further useful extension of the tenants' charter.
The Bill will also help those tenants who want to buy their homes. In the light of the experience of the right to buy that we have gained over the past two and a half years, we have taken this opportunity to remove points of obstruction and difficulty placed in the way of tenants exercising their legal rights by certain Labour councils. For instance, the Bill will restore the right to buy to those Norwich tenants who were pressurised into surrendering it by that council when it made the agreement to an exchange conditional on the tenant forfeiting his right to buy.
The Bill will give greater powers to the Secretary of State to protect tenants when their councils try to impose unreasonable and onerous covenants on them. That has been another major source of complaint and difficulty. It 983 will give tenants the ability to seek financial assistance from the Secretary of State to initiate legal proceedings against a council which fails to carry out its legal obligation towards a tenant who is seeking to exercise his right to buy. In other words, the Bill will make it easier for tenants to obtain their right to buy in accordance with the provisions that Parliament has enacted.
The Bill will also benefit several new groups of tenants who have been unable to exercise their right to buy until now. The 50,000 or so whose homes are on leasehold land will get the right to buy. So will the 80,000 or so tenants of charitable housing associations in houses that have been publicly funded in the same way as those belonging to non-charitable housing associations where the right to buy already exists. Those tenants who want to buy but who cannot afford to buy outright will now get the right to buy on a shared ownership basis, which will effectively bring the opportunity of home ownership within the reach of virtually every public tenant who can command a mortgage.
The right to shared ownership is one of the most important and, indeed, revolutionary advances brought about by the Government. The right to buy is undoubtedly one of the most significant and beneficial social revolutions of this century, resisted once again tonight by the Labour, Liberal and Social Democratic parties. No other legislation has given access to capital to more people more quickly. No other legislation has given the opportunity of asset ownership to those who have little or no assets. Half a million tenants have benefited from the right to buy already. Many more would like to follow in their footsteps. The Bill will enable them to do so and I commend it to the House.
§ Mrs. Ann TaylorThis is the only so-called major housing legislation from the Government during this session. What is the sum total of the Government's proposals? Will the legislation ease our major housing problems or not? Will it result in the building of more council houses? Will it result in the building of more private houses? Will it mean the employment of more building workers, reduce the ever-increasing number of homeless people or do anything to help those families in desperate need on housing waiting lists?
The Bill will do nothing for any of those problems. It will not help build one new house. It will not rehouse one family on any waiting list. It will not employ one more building worker. The Bill is irrelevant to the main housing problems that Britain is facing, and the Government have deliberately chosen to ignore those.
The Minister said that the first part of the Bill was an extension of the compulsory sales policy that the Government have followed, and it is. The Government are now changing their mind and those categories that were excluded in the Housing Act 1980 for very good reasons are now being brought into the new legislation. Compulsory sales will be extended to leasehold properties and will create more problems for local authorities to administer. They will be extended, most important and most dangerous of all, to charitable housing associations and housing charities, which were excluded in 1980. I am confident that sense will prevail in the other place and that 984 clause 2 will end up where it should be—on the scrapheap, thrown out by people who have more sense and more knowledge of real housing problems than the Government.
If, by any chance, the other place retains clause 2 in the Bill, the Bill will have serious consequences for charity law. In a retrospective way, it will undermine the good work done by many housing charities over many years, and may even wipe out some charities. It will reduce the stock of reasonable, rented accommodation for families and people in need. It will create more inequalities between different tenants of charitable housing associations and prevent housing associations from building replacement homes, so that they will not be able to carry out the work for which they were established. It will discourage voluntary effort altogether because the voluntary effort that has gone into the charitable housing movement in the past is now being turned into private gain by the Government.
Then there are the clauses on shared ownership. The Government are so keen to sell council houses that they have a new scheme for those who cannot afford to buy their council house. Instead of buying all one's council house, one can buy half or 62.5 per cent., regardless of the consequences. The Government have not explained to the tenant who becomes a part owner the consequences that he will face. He will have to pay rent and will have repair obligations. The Minister and his Department are not keen to point out the problems that will arise. They will do anything to push council house sales.
As the Minister has said, an important part of the Bill deals with housing control. It is the privatisation—another obsession of the Minister—of building control. We do not dispute what the Minister said about the need for rationalisation of building regulations, but the legislation is not about that. It is about the privatisation of building control. The Minister has consulted widely. He talked to the Institute of Building Control Officers, the Association of Metropolitan Authorities, the Institute of Municipal Building Management, the Consumers Association, the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors and the Institution of Structural Engineers, and he has ignored all the advice of all the professional bodies in this business. No one, among all of those working in this business, believes that the Government's proposals are workable. Only those who do not know what is involved confidently claim that they can take on this privatisation.
This evening, even the hon. Member for Chipping Barnet (Mr. Chapman), who is one of the few Conservative Members with any experience in this business, acknowledged, when he withdrew his new clause on liability, that the Government's ideas would be unworkable until the problems of liability and insurance were worked out. There is no sign of that as yet.
The Bill is about giving more power to the Secretary of State—power to interfere more with local authorities and to change charity law and even legal aid provisions by introducing help for tenants who wish to take on a local authority. We do not know where the Secretary of State intends to stop his bid for more and more power. He seems to be as power-mad as his predecessor, and that is dangerous.
The Opposition wish that the Secretary of State and his Ministers would spend a small proportion of their time on real housing problems rather than Bills such as this. When the Minister comes to the House with plans to build more houses, to reduce rents from their present record level, to 985 get building workers back into jobs and to tackle the real housing problems, he may deserve some support. This Bill does nothing to solve those housing problems and, if it becomes law, we shall repeal it as soon as possible.
§ Mr. Neil ThorneI do not wish to detain the House but I should like to make two points.
First, I am disappointed that clauses 38 and 39 were not discussed, either in Committee or on Second Reading. I hope that the issues in them will be discussed carefully in another place. They are important and need detailed examination.
Secondly, I am deeply sorry that my hon. Friend the Minster was not able to be more helpful about my amendment No. 62, which would have extended the right to buy to tenants of charitable housing associations who live in properties that were acquired mainly with public funds either before or after 1974.
I therefore wonder whether my hon. Friend can help in another way. He has already made generous provision for time served as a tenant with another association or local authority to be allowed to count towards the statutory deductions that are allowed. After what he told us about the enormous number of properties that are still being acquired by housing associations, may I ask him to consider inviting the Housing Corporation to give special assistance to tenants who are caught in the trap of being a tenant of a charitable housing association in a property that was purchased before 1974 so that they can obtain suitable alternative accommodation for purchase nearby, even if a loss is sustained as a result?
§ Mr. CartwrightOn Second Reading I made it clear that our support for the Bill was heavily qualified because we regard it as a mixture of the good, the bad and the irrelevant. There is some sensible tidying up of anomalies in the right-to-buy legislation, especially in relation to leasehold property.
I welcome the strengthening of the position of tenants who exercise the right to buy and find that they are obstructed by powerful local authorities. I also welcome the steps that are being taken to strengthen the rights of tenants who face service charges and restrictive covenants imposed by local authorities that do not want the right to buy to be meaningful.
Unlike the hon. Member for Bolton, West (Mrs. Taylor), I welcome what is being done about shared ownership. It is a step in the right direction. I am glad that the Minister singled out the provisions that relate to the greater rights of tenants on a district heating system because, as he knows, the groundwork for that part of the Bill was done by my hon. Friend the Member for Islington, South and Finsbury (Mr. Cunningham).
With regard to the optional privatisation of building control, I find little evidence to suggest that builders and developers will leave the tried system of local authority building control for the much newer concept of the approved private inspector. I do not share the Minister's optimism that that will somehow yield a tremendous growth in the construction industry.
Clause 2 is crucial to us. It concerns the extension of the right to buy to tenants of charitable housing associations. We tabled an instruction to delete that clause 986 on Second Reading. We hoped that, once the Government understood the strength of the opposition to that proposal throughout the country, they would relent.
Our hopes have proved groundless. The Government stood as firmly against amendments in Committee as they have stood today against an amendment that came from their Back Benches. Clause 2 is damaging to charitable housing associations, is dogmatic and will do nothing to help housing conditions. On those grounds alone, we shall vote against giving the Bill a Third Reading.
§ Mr. Peter Bottomley (Woolwich, West)The House and the country now understand that the Alliance supported the Bill on Second Reading but will vote against it on Third Reading.
The extension of the right to buy, both to those to whom we believed that we gave it in the Housing Act 1980 and to those to whom it is given now for the first time, will be most welcome. The Conservative party has showed that it is the party of the whole nation—for council tenants as well as for owner-occupiers. Those who believed that they could ignore Labour party policies in the past have seen, by the actions of the GLC and Greenwich council, what happens if they do so. If they wish to maintain the right to buy and to have the same opportunities as most Labour Members of Parliament and many Labour councillors, they had better keep a Tory majority in the House at the next election. I ask all council tenants, not just those who live in my constituency, to consider carefully the commitments made by the right hon. Member for Manchester, Ardwick (Mr. Kaufman) and to reject him and all those who support him at the next election. Council tenants deserve the right to own their homes, because it spreads wealth and mobility and is a very good thing.
§ Mr. Stephen RossI was tempted not to speak on Third Reading, but because of the Minister's supreme optimism, which was not very convincing, I must add a few words.
§ Mr. Dennis Canavan (West Stirlingshire)Why does not the hon. Gentleman vote against the Bill?
§ Mr. RossI shall certainly vote against it. I hope that the Minister's predictions will prove to be true, but I doubt it. We shall vote against Third Reading because it is immoral to oblige charitable housing associations to sell their post-1974 built properties and because we fear that the weakening of the present building control system could have disastrous results. The Minister may not be in office when that happens, but some Minister will have to pay the bill.
I regret that, because of the guillotine, we have not had time fully to debate the Bill on Report. It will create confusion among the public and will destroy a service in which the professions have confidence, as the hon. Member for Ilford, South (Mr. Thorne), who is a chartered surveyor, said a few moments ago. There is doubt about the genuine independence of the proposed new system, and there will inevitably be pressures from commercial interests. Anyone who has served in local government knows that that is true. The Bill will lead to a lowering of standards at a time when we should be moving in the opposite direction.
Mr. Ronald W. BrownThere were not so many hon. Members in the Chamber when we were discussing the Bill on Report—[Interruption.]
§ Mr. R. C. MitchellOn a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. There are so many sub-committees going on around the Chamber, and so many people talking, that it is impossible to hear even an hon. Member who is standing just behind me.
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerI, too, am finding it difficult to hear.
Mr. BrownYou were kind enough to call me, Mr. Deputy Speaker, but you said that, because of the length of other hon. Members' speeches, I could have only three minutes. I honoured my undertaking to you and sat down after those three minutes. However, in that short time, I asked the Minister two questions. I asked him to confirm that any trustees who are affected by clause 2 will be absolved of their responsibilities to the charity commissioners. It was a straightforward question, but, during a 15-minute speech, he deliberately refused to answer it. Will he assure the House now that any trustee who implements clause 2 will be absolved of his responsibilities? It is an important matter, because I and others who have served on charities have been taken to task by the charity commissioners, on issues much smaller than this, who claimed that we were abrogating our trusteeship. The House, and all those who volunteer to be trustees, should be assured that their future will not be prejudiced by clause 2.
The Minister has waxed long throughout the evening and in Committee about the privilege of the right to buy. I asked him why he has not extended that to Crown estate tenants. Their homes are provided by public funds and those people are entitled to have the same right. If his argument is right for housing associations, it is right for Crown estate tenants. He did not find time to answer me. Why is the right to buy not available for everyone?
My third question, which I did not put to him because I did not have time, is: does the Minister believe that the building regulations covered in part III will apply to scaffolding around buildings? Many local authorities use scaffolding which is now falling down. [Laughter.] One of my constituents was hurt by falling scaffolding. It is not amusing to me, because I am fighting for compensation for her. I cannot obtain it. The local authority and the contractor have got out of their responsibilities. I hope that the Minister can assure me on that point. I am dissatisfied with the Bill and shall vote against it.
§ Mr. StanleyI shall happily reply to the points raised by the hon. Member for Hackney, South and Shoreditch (Mr. Brown).
§ Mr. Arthur Lewis (Newham, North-West)On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I object.
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerIs the hon. Member within the Bar? I see that he is.
§ Mr. Arthur LewisOn a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. As I understand it, as the Minister has spoken, he can speak again only by leave of the House. I am objecting to his speech. I do not believe that he has had the leave of the House.
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerOrder. It is perfectly in order for the Minister to speak for a second time on Third Reading.
§ Mr. StanleyWith the leave of the House, I shall reply to the points raised by the hon. Member for Hackney, South and Shoreditch. The answer to his first point is contained in clause 2(2), which provides the necessary protection for the trustees of charities.
His second point about Crown estates—
§ Mr. Arthur LewisOn a further point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerIs it a further point of order?
§ Mr. Arthur LewisYes. Is it not a fact that on Third Reading one may discuss only what is in the Bill and not what one would like to see in the Bill? The hon. Member for Hackney, South and Shoreditch (Mr. Brown) spoke about what he thought was wrong because this and that were not in the Bill. I believe that that was out of order and, therefore, the Minister has no right to reply.
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerOrder. The hon. Member for Hackney, South and Shoreditch (Mr. Brown) wished to raise points about an amendment. He did not have time to do so.
§ Mr. Arthur LewisFurther to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerOrder. I do not think that the hon. Member was here. The Minister is now replying to that point.
§ Mr. Arthur LewisFurther to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
§ Mr. Deputy SpeakerIs it a further point of order?
§ Mr. Arthur LewisYes. Whether or not I was here before, I am here now. I am raising a point of order now. It was not on Third Reading before, but it is now. What the hon. Member for Hackney, South and Shoreditch raised on Report stage is not relevant to Third Reading. Third Reading is restricted severely to what is in the Bill, not to what was in an amendment in Committee or on Report. Whatever the hon. Member raised in Committee, it is not in the Bill, and therefore neither he nor the Minister has the right, according to Standing Orders, to raise those points.
§ Question put, That the Bill be now read the Third time:—
§ The House divided: Ayes 259, Noes 168.
991| Division No. 102] | [11.44 pm |
| AYES | |
| Aitken, Jonathan | Body, Richard |
| Alexander, Richard | Bonsor, Sir Nicholas |
| Alison, Rt Hon Michael | Bottomley, Peter (W'wich W) |
| Ancram, Michael | Bowden, Andrew |
| Arnold, Tom | Boyson, Dr Rhodes |
| Aspinwall, Jack | Braine, Sir Bernard |
| Atkins, Rt Hon H.(S'thorne) | Bright, Graham |
| Baker, Nicholas (N Dorset) | Brinton, Tim |
| Banks, Robert | Brittan, Rt. Hon. Leon |
| Bendall, Vivian | Brooke, Hon Peter |
| Benyon, Thomas (A'don) | Brotherton, Michael |
| Berry, Hon Anthony | Brown, Michael(Brigg & Sc'n) |
| Best, Keith | Bruce-Gardyne, John |
| Bevan, David Gilroy | Bryan, Sir Paul |
| Biffen, Rt Hon John | Buchanan-Smith, Rt. Hon. A. |
| Biggs-Davison, Sir John | Budgen, Nick |
| Blackburn, John | Burden, Sir Frederick |
| Butcher, John | Kershaw, Sir Anthony |
| Carlisle, Kenneth (Lincoln) | Kimball, Sir Marcus |
| Carlisle, Rt Hon M. (R'c'n) | King, Rt Hon Tom |
| Chalker, Mrs. Lynda | Kitson, Sir Timothy |
| Chapman, Sydney | Knight, Mrs Jill |
| Churchill, W. S. | Knox, David |
| Clark, Hon A. (Plym'th, S'n) | Lang, Ian |
| Clark, Sir W. (Croydon S) | Langford-Holt, Sir John |
| Clarke, Kenneth (Rushcliffe) | Latham, Michael |
| Clegg, Sir Walter | Lawrence, Ivan |
| Cockeram, Eric | Lawson, Rt Hon Nigel |
| Colvin, Michael | Lee, John |
| Corrie, John | Lennox-Boyd, Hon Mark |
| Costain, Sir Albert | Lester, Jim (Beeston) |
| Cranborne, Viscount | Lewis, Sir Kenneth (Rutland) |
| Critchley, Julian | Lloyd, Ian (Havant & W'loo) |
| Crouch, David | Loveridge, John |
| Dickens, Geoffrey | Luce, Richard |
| Dorrell, Stephen | Lyell, Nicholas |
| Douglas-Hamilton, Lord J. | McCrindle, Robert |
| Dunn, Robert (Dartford) | Macfarlane, Neil |
| Durant, Tony | MacGregor, John |
| Eden, Rt Hon Sir John | MacKay, John (Argyll) |
| Edwards, Rt Hon N. (P'broke) | Macmillan, Rt Hon M. |
| Eggar, Tim | McNair-Wilson, M. (N'bury) |
| Emery, Sir Peter | McNair-Wilson, P. (New F'st) |
| Eyre, Reginald | McQuarrie, Albert |
| Fairbairn, Nicholas | Major, John |
| Faith, Mrs Sheila | Marland, Paul |
| Farr, John | Marshall, Michael (Arundel) |
| Finsberg, Geoffrey | Mates, Michael |
| Fisher, Sir Nigel | Mather, Carol |
| Fletcher, A. (Ed'nb'gh N) | Maude, Rt Hon Sir Angus |
| Fletcher-Cooke, Sir Charles | Mawby, Ray |
| Fookes, Miss Janet | Maxwell-Hyslop, Robin |
| Forman, Nigel | Mayhew, Patrick |
| Fowler, Rt Hon Norman | Mellor, David |
| Fraser, Rt Hon Sir Hugh | Meyer, Sir Anthony |
| Fraser, Peter (South Angus) | Miller, Hal (B'grove) |
| Gardiner, George (Reigate) | Mills, Iain (Meriden) |
| Gardner, Sir Edward | Mills, Sir Peter (West Devon) |
| Garel-Jones, Tristan | Miscampbell, Norman |
| Glyn, Dr Alan | Moate, Roger |
| Goodhart, Sir Philip | Monro, Sir Hector |
| Goodlad, Alastair | Montgomery, Fergus |
| Gow, Ian | Moore, John |
| Gower, Sir Raymond | Morgan, Geraint |
| Gray, Rt Hon Hamish | Morris, M. (N'hampton S) |
| Greenway, Harry | Morrison, Hon C. (Devizes) |
| Griffiths, Peter (Portsm'th N) | Morrison, Hon P. (Chester) |
| Grist, Ian | Mudd, David |
| Grylls, Michael | Murphy, Christopher |
| Gummer, John Selwyn | Myles, David |
| Hamilton, Hon A. | Neale, Gerrard |
| Hamilton, Michael (Salisbury) | Needham, Richard |
| Hampson, Dr Keith | Nelson, Anthony |
| Hannam, John | Neubert, Michael |
| Haselhurst, Alan | Newton, Tony |
| Hastings, Stephen | Oppenheim, Rt Hon Mrs S. |
| Havers, Rt Hon Sir Michael | Osborn, John |
| Hawkins, Sir Paul | Page, John (Harrow, West) |
| Hayhoe, Barney | Page, Richard (SW Herts) |
| Heddle, John | Parris, Matthew |
| Henderson, Barry | Patten, Christopher (Bath) |
| Hicks, Robert | Patten, John (Oxford) |
| Higgins, Rt Hon Terence L. | Pattie, Geoffrey |
| Hogg, Hon Douglas (Gr'th'm) | Pawsey, James |
| Holland, Philip (Carlton) | Percival, Sir Ian |
| Hooson, Tom | Pink, R. Bonner |
| Hordern, Peter | Pollock, Alexander |
| Howell, Rt Hon D. (G'ldf'd) | Porter, Barry |
| Howell, Ralph (N Norfolk) | Prentice, Rt Hon Reg |
| Hunt, David (Wirral) | Price, Sir David (Eastleigh) |
| Hunt, John (Ravensbourne) | Prior, Rt Hon James |
| Hurd, Rt Hon Douglas | Proctor, K. Harvey |
| Irvine, RtHon Bryant Godman | Rathbone, Tim |
| Irving, Charles (Cheltenham) | Rees-Davies, W. R. |
| Jopling, Rt Hon Michael | Renton, Tim |
| Kaberry, Sir Donald | Rhys Williams, Sir Brandon |
| Kellett-Bowman, Mrs Elaine | Ridley, Hon Nicholas |
| Ridsdale, Sir Julian | Thatcher, Rt Hon Mrs M. |
| Rifkind, Malcolm | Thompson, Donald |
| Roberts, Wyn (Conway) | Thome, Neil (Ilford South) |
| Rossi, Hugh | Thornton, Malcolm |
| Rost, Peter | Townend, John (Bridlington) |
| Royle, Sir Anthony | Townsend, Cyril D, (B'heath) |
| Rumbold, Mrs A. C. R. | van Straubenzee, Sir W. |
| Sainsbury, Hon Timothy | Viggers, Peter |
| Shaw, Giles (Pudsey) | Waddington, David |
| Shaw, Sir Michael (Scarb') | Wakeham, John |
| Shelton, William (Streatham) | Waldegrave, Hon William |
| Shepherd, Colin (Hereford) | Walker, B. (Perth) |
| Shepherd, Richard | Walker-Smith, Rt Hon Sir D. |
| Silvester, Fred | Wall, Sir Patrick |
| Sims, Roger | Waller, Gary |
| Skeet, T. H. H. | Walters, Dennis |
| Smith, Tim (Beaconsfield) | Ward, John |
| Speed, Keith | Warren, Kenneth |
| Spence, John | Watson, John |
| Spicer, Jim (West Dorset) | Wells, Bowen |
| Sproat, Iain | Wheeler, John |
| Squire, Robin | Whitelaw, Rt Hon William |
| Stainton, Keith | Whitney, Raymond |
| Stanbrook, Ivor | Wickenden, Keith |
| Stanley, John | Wiggin, Jerry |
| Steen, Anthony | Williams, D.(Montgomery) |
| Stevens, Martin | Winterton, Nicholas |
| Stewart, A.(E Renfrewshire) | Wolfson, Mark |
| Stewart, Ian (Hitchin) | Young, Sir George (Acton) |
| Stokes, John | Younger, Rt Hon George |
| Stradling Thomas, J. | |
| Tapsell, Peter | Tellers for the Ayes: |
| Taylor, Teddy (S'end E) | Mr. Robert Boscawen and |
| Tebbit, Rt Hon Norman | Mr. John Cope. |
| Temple-Morris, Peter | |
| NOES | |
| Abse, Leo | Dobson, Frank |
| Allaun, Frank | Dormand, Jack |
| Alton, David | Douglas, Dick |
| Anderson, Donald | Dubs, Alfred |
| Archer, Rt Hon Peter | Dunnett, Jack |
| Ashley, Rt Hon Jack | Dunwoody, Hon Mrs G. |
| Ashton, Joe | Eadie, Alex |
| Atkinson, N.(H'gey,) | Ellis, R. (NE D'bysh're) |
| Barnett, Guy (Greenwich) | English, Michael |
| Barnett, Rt Hon Joel (H'wd) | Ennals, Rt Hon David |
| Beith, A. J. | Evans, Ioan (Aberdare) |
| Benn, Rt Hon Tony | Evans, John (Newton) |
| Bennett, Andrew(St'kp't N) | Ewing, Harry |
| Bidwell, Sydney | Faulds, Andrew |
| Booth, Rt Hon Albert | Flannery, Martin |
| Boothroyd, Miss Betty | Ford, Ben |
| Bray, Dr Jeremy | Foulkes, George |
| Brocklebank-Fowler, C. | Fraser, J. (Lamb'th, N'w'd) |
| Brown, Hugh D. (Provan) | Freeson, Rt Hon Reginald |
| Brown, Ronald W. (H'ckn'y S) | Freud, Clement |
| Brown, Ron (E'burgh, Leith) | Garrett, John (Norwich S) |
| Buchan, Norman | Gilbert, Rt Hon Dr John |
| Campbell-Savours, Dale | Golding, John |
| Canavan, Dennis | Graham, Ted |
| Cant, R. B. | Hamilton, James (Bothwell) |
| Carmichael, Neil | Harrison, Rt Hon Walter |
| Cartwright, John | Haynes, Frank |
| Clark, Dr David (S Shields) | Holland, S. (L'b'th, Vauxh'll) |
| Cocks, Rt Hon M. (B'stol S) | Home Robertson, John |
| Cohen, Stanley | Hooley, Frank |
| Coleman, Donald | Howell, Rt Hon D. |
| Concannon, Rt Hon J. D. | Hoyle, Douglas |
| Crowther, Stan | Huckfield, Les |
| Cryer, Bob | Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen N) |
| Cunliffe, Lawrence | Hughes, Roy (Newport) |
| Dalyell, Tam | Hughes, Simon (Bermondsey) |
| Davidson, Arthur | Janner, Hon Greville |
| Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (L'lli) | Jay, Rt Hon Douglas |
| Davis, Clinton (Hackney C) | John, Brynmor |
| Davis, Terry (B'ham, Stechf'd) | Kaufman, Rt Hon Gerald |
| Deakins, Eric | Kerr, Russell |
| Dean, Joseph (Leeds West) | Kilroy-Silk, Robert |
| Dixon, Donald | Lambie, David |
| Lamond, James | Rowlands, Ted |
| Leadbitter, Ted | Sever, John |
| Leighton, Ronald | Sheldon, Rt Hon R. |
| Lewis, Arthur (N'ham NW) | Shore, Rt Hon Peter |
| Lewis, Ron (Carlisle) | Short, Mrs Renée |
| Litherland, Robert | Silkin, Rt Hon J. (Deptford) |
| McDonald, Dr Oonagh | Silkin, Rt Hon S. C. (Dulwich) |
| McElhone, Mrs Helen | Silverman, Julius |
| McKelvey, William | Skinner, Dennis |
| McTaggart, Robert | Smith, Rt Hon J. (N Lanark) |
| Marshall, D(G'gow S'ton) | Soley, Clive |
| Marshall, Dr Edmund (Goole) | Spearing, Nigel |
| Marshall, Jim (Leicester S) | Spellar, John Francis (B'ham) |
| Maynard, Miss Joan | Spriggs, Leslie |
| Mikardo, Ian | Stallard, A. W. |
| Millan, Rt Hon Bruce | Steel, Rt Hon David |
| Mitchell, Austin (Grimsby) | Stoddart, David |
| Mitchell, R. C. (Soton Itchen) | Strang, Gavin |
| Morris, Rt Hon A. (W'shawe) | Straw, Jack |
| Morris, Rt Hon C. (O'shaw) | Taylor, Mrs Ann (Bolton W) |
| Newens, Stanley | Thomas, Dr R.(Carmarthen) |
| Oakes, Rt Hon Gordon | Tilley, John |
| Ogden, Eric | Torney, Tom |
| O'Halloran, Michael | Varley, Rt Hon Eric G. |
| O'Neill, Martin | Wainwright, E.(Dearne V) |
| Orme, Rt Hon Stanley | Walker, Rt Hon H.(D'caster) |
| Park, George | Warden, Gareth |
| Parker, John | Welsh, Michael |
| Parry, Robert | White, Frank R. |
| Penhaligon, David | White, J. (G'gow Pollok) |
| Powell, Raymond (Ogmore) | Whitlock, William |
| Price, C. (Lewisham W) | Wigley, Dafydd |
| Race, Reg | Williams, Rt Hon A.(S'sea W) |
| Richardson, Jo | Wilson, Rt Hon Sir H.(H'ton) |
| Roberts, Albert (Normanton) | Wilson, William (C'try SE) |
| Roberts, Allan (Bootle) | Winnick, David |
| Roberts, Ernest (Hackney N) | Woodall, Alec |
| Roberts, Gwilym (Cannock) | Wright, Sheila |
| Robertson, George | Young, David (Bolton E) |
| Robinson, G. (Coventry NW) | |
| Roper, John | Tellers for the Noes: |
| Ross, Ernest (Dundee West) | Mr. Norman Hogg and |
| Ross, Stephen (Isle of Wight) | Mr. George Morton. |
§ Question accordingly agreed to.
§ Bill read the Third time and passed.