HC Deb 10 June 1982 vol 25 cc518-22

Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House—

  1. (a) welcomes the Report of the Select Committee on Members' Salaries which was ordered by this House to be printed on 17th February 1982;
  2. (b) agrees with the recommendation in that Report that a review of Members' pay be conducted by the Review 519 Body on Top Salaries once during the fourth year of each Parliament and that, where a shortened Parliament precludes this, the Review Body should carry out a new review not later than four years after the rates of salary consequent on the previous review first became payable;
  3. (c) agrees with the view expressed in that Report that, between such reviews, Members' salaries should be adjusted annually by reference to increases in outside salaries, but does not accept the recommendation that there should be an annual automatic adjustment by reference to figures taken from the Department of Employment's New Earnings Survey;
  4. (d) is of opinion that Her Majesty's Government should instead, in the period between one such review and the next, move annual motions to effect changes in Members' salaries and in so doing should be guided by the average change in the rates of pay of appropriate groups in the Public Service over a relevant period.—[Mr. Biffen.]

Amendment proposed: (a), to leave out from '1982' to end of motion and add `and agrees with the recommendations of that Report' .—[Mr. Peter Thomas.]

Question put, That the amendment be made:—

The House divided: Ayes, 49. Noes, 117.

Division No. 203] [12.34 am
AYES
Atkinson, N.(H'gey,) McNamara, Kevin
Benn, Rt Hon Tony Miscampbell, Norman
Booth, Rt Hon Albert Mitchell, Austin (Grimsby)
Brown, Hugh D. (Provan) Morris, Rt Hon A. (W'shawe)
Campbell-Savours, Dale Morris, Rt Hon C. (O'shaw)
Carter-Jones, Lewis Price, C. (Lewisham W)
Clegg, Sir Walter Rees-Davies, W. R.
Cocks, Rt Hon M. (B'stol S) Roper, John
Cohen, Stanley Ross, Stephen (Isle of Wight)
Cook, Robin F. Shaw, Michael (Scarborough)
Crowther, Stan Silkin, Rt Hon J. (Deptford)
Cunningham, G.(Islington S) Soley, Clive
Davis, Clinton (Hackney C) Spearing, Nigel
Davis, Terry (B 'ham, Stechf'd) Stoddart, David
Dormand, Jack Straw, Jack
Evans, John (Newton) Thomas, Mike (Newcastle E)
Foster, Derek Thomas, Rt Hon Peter
Garrett, John (Norwich S) Ward, John
Greenway, Harry Whitehead, Phillip
Harrison, Rt Hon Walter Winterton, Nicholas
Home Robertson, John Woolmer, Kenneth
Hooley, Frank Wrigglesworth, Ian
Howells, Geraint
Lawrence, Ivan Tellers for the Ayes:
Lyon, Alexander(York) Mr. Michael English and
McDonald, DrOonagh Mr. Mark Wolfson.
McKay, Allen (Penistone)
NOES
Alison, Rt Hon Michael Chapman, Sydney
Ancram, Michael Clark, Sir W.(Croydon S)
Baker, Kenneth(St.M'bone) Clarke, Kerneth(Rushcllffe)
Baker, Nicholas (N Dorset) Cope, John
Beaumont-Dark, Anthony Dunn, Rober(Dartford)
Berry, Hon Anthony Eggar, Tim
Best, Keith Eyre, Reginald
Biffen, Rt Hon John Fenner, Mrs Peggy
Blaker, Peter Finsberg, Geoffrey
Bottomley, Peter (W wich W) Fletcher, A. (Ed'nb'gh N)
Boyson, Dr Rhodes Forman, Nigel
Brittan, Rt. Hon. Leon Fowler, Rt Hon Norman
Brooke, Hon Peter Fraser, Peter (South Angus)
Bruce-Gardyne, John Garel-Jones, Tristan
Bryan, Sir Paul Glyn, Dr Alan
Buchanan-Smith, Rt, Hon. A. Goodhew, Sir Victor
Butcher, John Goodlad, Alastair
Cadbury, Jocelyn Gummer, John Selwyn
Carlisle, Kenneth (Lincoln) Hamilton, Hon A.
Chalker, Mrs. Lynda Hamilton, Michael (Salisbury)
Channon, Rt. Hon. Paul Hampson, DrKeith
Havers, Rt Hon Sir Michael Pollock, Alexander
Hawkins, Paul Raison, Rt Hon Timothy
Hayhoe, Barney Rathbone, Tim
Heseltine, Rt Hon Michael Rees, Peter (Dover and Deal)
Hogg, Hon Douglas(Gr'th'm) Ridley, Hon Nicholas
Howe, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey Rifkind, Malcolm
Howell, Rt Hon D(G'ldf'd) Roberts, M. (Cardiff NW)
Hunt, David (Wirrai) Roberts, Wyn (Conway)
Hurd, Rt Hon Douglas) Rossi, Hugh
Jenkin, Rt Hon Patrick Sainsbury, Hon Timothy
Jopling, Rt Hon Michael Shelton, William(Streatham)
Joseph, Rt Hon Sir Keith Silvester, Fred
King, Rt Hon Tom Sims, Roger
Lamont, Norman Skinner, Dennis
Lawson, Rt Hon Nigel Stewart, A.(ERenfrewshire)
Lee, John Stewart, Ian (Hitchin)
Lyell, Nicholas Stradling Thomas, J.
Macfarlane, Neil Tebbit, Rt Hon Norman
MacGregor, John Thompson, Donald
McNair-Wilson, M.(N'bury) Thornton, Malcolm
Major, John Townend, John (Bridlington)
Marten, Rt Hon Neil Trippier, David
Mather, Carol Vaughan, Dr Gerard
Mayhew, Patrick Viggers, Peter
Mellor, David Waddington, David
Miller, Hal(B'grow) Wakeham, John
Mills, Iain(Meriden) Waldegrave, Hon William
Mitchell, David(Basingstoke) Walker, Rt Hon P.(W'cestor)
Moate, Roger Waller, Gary
Moore, John Warren, Kenneth
Morrison, Hon P. (Chester) Wells, Bowen
Myles, David Whitelaw, Rt Hon William
Nelson, Anthony Wiggin, Jerry
Newton, Tony Young, Sir George(Action)
Onslow, Cranley Younger, Rt Hon George
Page, Richard (SW Herts)
Parkinson, Rt Hon Cecil Tellers for the Noes:
Patten John (Oxford) Mr. Ian Lang and
Pawsey, James Mr. Robert Boscawen.
Percival, Sir Ian

Question accordingly negatived.

Amendment proposed: (b), to leave out from 'payable' to end and add— `(c) agrees with the view expressed in that Report that, between such re views Members salaries should be adjusted annually by reference to increases in outside salaries as indicated in the nearest percentile in the Department of Employment's New Earnings Survey. (d) does not accept the view in that Report that the question of Members' pensions and severance payments should be subsumed under the general heading of "Pay" to await consideration in the context of the next general review of Members' pay, but is of the opinion that, in the light of the anomalies inherent in the present severance arrangements and the increased insecurity attached to the role of a Member, the Top Salaries Review Body be requested to undertake an urgent review of pension and severance arrangements and make recommendations accordingly.'.—[Mr. John Silkin.]

Question put, That the amendment be made:—

The House divided: Ayes 35, Noes 111.

Division No. 204] [12.45 am
AYES
Atkinson, N.(H'gey,) Foster, Derek
Benn, Rt Hon Tony Garrett, John (Norwich S)
Booth, Rt Hon Albert Harrison, Rt Hon Walter
Brown, Hugh D. (Provan) HomeRobertson, John
Campbell-Savours, Dale Howells, Geraint
Carter-Jones, Levis McDonald, Dr Oonagh
Cocks, Rt Hon M.(B'stol S) McKay, Allen(Penistone)
Cohen, Stanley McNamara, Kevin
Cook, Robin F. Morris, Rt Hon A. (W'shawe)
Crowther, Stan Morris, Rt Hon C. (O'shaw)
Davis, Clinton (Hackney C) Roper, John
Davis, Terry (B'ham, Stechf'd) Ross, Stephen (Isle of Wight)
Dormand, Jack Silkin, Rt Hon J. (Deptford)
English, Michael Skinner, Dennis
Evans, John (Newton) Soley, Clive
Stoddart, David
Straw,Jack Tellers for the Ayes:
Whitehead,Phillip Mr. Frank Hooley and
Woolmer,Kenneth Mr. Nigel Spearing.
Wrigglesworth,Ian
NOES
Alison, Rt Hon Michael Hayhoe, Barney
Ancram,Michael Heseltine, Rt Hon Michael
Baker,Kenneth(St.M'bone) Hogg, Hon Douglas(Gr'th'm)
Baker, Nicholas (N Dorset) Howe, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey
Beaumont-Dark,Anthony Howell,Rt Hon D.(G'ldf'd)
Berry, Hon Anthony Hurd,Rt Hon Douglas
Best, Keith Jenkin,Rt Hon Patrick
Biffen,Rt Hon John Jopling, Rt Hon Michael
Blaker, Peter King, Rt Hon Tom
Bottomley,Peter(W'wich W) Lamont, Norman
Boyson,Dr Rhodes Lang, Ian
Brittan,Rt. Hon. Leon Lawson,Rt Hon Nigel
Brooke, Hon Peter Lee, John
Bruce-Gardyne,John Lyell,Nicholas
Buchanan-Smith, Rt. Hon. A. Macfarlane,Neil
Butcher,John MacGregor,John
Cadbury,Jocelyn Major,John
Carlisle, Kenneth (Lincoln) Marten, Rt Hon Neil
Chalker, Mrs. Lynda Mather,Carol
Channon, Rt. Hon. Paul Mayhew,Patrick
Chapman,Sydney Mellor,David
Clarke,Kenneth (Rushcliffe) Miller,Hal(B'grove)
Cope,John Mills,Iain(Meriden)
Dunn, Robert(Dartford) Miscampbell,Norman
Eggar,Tim Mitchell, David (Basingstoke)
Fanner, Mrs Peggy Moate, Roger
Finsberg,Geoffrey Moore,John
Fletcher, A. (Ed'nb'gh N) Morrison, Hon P. (Chester)
Forman, Nigel Myles, David
Fowler, Rt Hon Norman Newton,Tony
Fraser, Peter (South Angus) Onslow,Cranley
Garel-Jones,Tristan Page, Richard (SW Herts)
Glyn, DrAlan Parkinson, Rt Hon Cecil
Goodhew,SirVictor Patten, John (Oxford)
Goodlad,Alastair Pawsey, James
Greenway, Harry Percival,Sir Ian
Gummer,JohnSelwyn Pollock,Alexander
Hamilton, Hon A. Raison, Rt Hon Timothy
Hampson,Dr Keith Rathbone,Tim
Hawkins, Paul Rees, Peter (Dover and Deal)
Ridley, Hon Nicholas Viggers, Peter
Rifkind, Malcolm Waddington,David
Roberts, M. (Cardiff NW) Wakeham,John
Roberts, Wyn (Conway) Waldegrave,Hon William
Rossi, Hugh Waller, Gary
Sainsbury,Hon Timothy Warren,Kenneth
Shelton,William(Streatham) Wells,Bowen
Silvester,Fred Whitelaw,Rt Hon William
Sims, Roger Wiggin,Jerry
Stewart,A(ERenfrewshire) Winterton,Nicholas
Stewart, Ian (Hitchin) Wolfson,Mark
StradlingThomas,J. Young,SirGeorge(Action)
Tebbit, Rt Hon Norman Younger, Rt Hon George
Thomas, Rt Hon Peter
Thompson,Donald Tellers for the Noes:
Thornton,Malcolm Mr. Robert Boscawen and
Trippier, David Mr. David Hunt.
Vaughan,DrGerard

Question accordingly negatived.

Main Question put and agreed to.

Resolved, That this House—

  1. (a) welcomes the Report of the Select Committee on Members' Salaries which was ordered by this House to be printed on 17th February 1982;
  2. (b) agrees with the recommendation in that Report that a review of Members' pay be conducted by the Review Body on Top Salaries once during the fourth year of each Parliament and that, where a shortened Parliament precludes this, the Review Body should carry out a new review not later than four years after the rates of salary consequent on the previous review first became payable;
  3. (c) agrees with the view expressed in that Report that, between such reviews, Members' salaries should be adjusted annually by reference to increases in outside salaries, but does not accept the recommendation that there should be an annual automatic adjustment by reference to figures taken from the Department of Employment's New Earnings Survey;
  4. (d) is of opinion that Her Majesty's Government should instead, in the period between one such review and the next, move annual motions to effect changes in Members' salaries and in so doing should be guided by the average change in the rates of pay of appropriate groups in the Public Service over a relevant period.—[Mr. Biffen]