§ Question put, That the Clause stand part of the Bill: —
§ The Committee divided: Ayes 213, Noes 206.
1313| Division No. 137] | AYES | [7.25 p.m. |
| Allaun, Frank | Dell, Rt Hon Edmund | Huckfield, Les |
| Archer, Rt Hon Peter | Dempsey, James | Hughes, Rt Hon C. (Anglesey) |
| Armstrong, Ernest | Doig, Peter | Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen N) |
| Atkinson, Norman | Dormand, J. D. | Hughes, Roy (Newport) |
| Bain, Mrs Margaret | Douglas-Mann, Bruce | Hunter, Adam |
| Barnett, Guy (Greenwich) | Duffy, A. E. P. | Jackson, Miss Margaret (Lincoln) |
| Bean, H. E. | Dunn, James A. | Janner, Greville |
| Beith, A. J. | Dunwoody, Mrs Gwyneth | Jay, Rt Hon Douglas |
| Bennett, Andrew (Stockport N) | Eadie, Alex | Jeger, Mrs Lena |
| Bidwell, Sydney | Edge, Geoff | Jenkins, Hugh (Putney) |
| Bishop, Rt Hon Edward | Ellis, John (Brigg & Scun) | John, Brynmor |
| Blenkinsop, Arthur | Ellis, Tom (Wrexham) | Johnson, James (Hull West) |
| Boardman, H. | English, Michael | Johnston, Russell (Inverness) |
| Boothroyd, Miss Betty | Ennals, Rt Hon David | Jones, Alec (Rhondda) |
| Bottomley, Rt Hon Arthur | Evans, Gwynfor (Carmarthen) | Jones, Barry (East Flint) |
| Boyden, James (Bish Auck) | Ewing, Harry (Stirling) | Jones, Dan (Burnley) |
| Bray, Dr Jeremy | Faulds, Andrew | Kaufman, Gerald |
| Brown, Robert C. (Newcastle W) | Fernyhough, Rt Hon E. | Kerr, Russell |
| Buchan, Norman | Flannery, Martin | Kilroy-Silk, Robert o |
| Buchanan, Richard | Fletcher, Ted (Darlington) | Lambie, David |
| Butler, Mrs Joyce (Wood Green) | Foot, Rt Hon Michael | Lamond, James |
| Callaghan, Jim (Middleton & P) | Ford, Ben | Lewis, Ron (Carlisle) |
| Campbell, Ian | Forrester, John | Litterick, Tom |
| Canavan, Dennis | Fowler, Gerald (The Wrekin) | Lyon, Alexander (York) |
| Carmichael, Nell | Freud, Clement | Lyons, Edward (Bradford W) |
| Carter-Jones, Lewis | George, Bruce | MacCormick, lain |
| Castle, Rt Hon Barbara | Golding, John | McCusker, H. |
| Clemitson, Ivor | Gould, Bryan | McDonald, Dr Oonagh |
| Cocks, Rt Hon Michael (Bristol S) | Gourlay, Harry | McElhone, Frank |
| Cohen, Stanley | Graham, Ted | MacFarquhar, Roderick |
| Coleman, Donald | Grant, George (Morpeth) | McGuire, Michael (Ince) |
| Cook, Robin F. (Edin C) | Grant, John (Islington C) | MacKenzie, Rt Hon Gregor |
| Corbett, Robin | Grimond, Rt Hon J. | Mackintosh, John P. |
| Cox, Thomas (Tooting) | Grocott, Bruce | Maclennan, Robert |
| Crawford, Douglas | Harper, Joseph | McMillan, Tom (Glasgow C) |
| Crawshaw, Richard | Harrison, Rt Hon Walter | Madden, Max |
| Crowther, Stan (Rotherham) | Hayman, Mrs Helene | Magee, Bryan |
| Cryer, Bob | Henderson, Douglas | Mahon, Simon |
| Cunningham, Dr J. (Whiteh) | Hooley, Frank | Mallalieu, J. P. W. |
| Davidson, Arthur | Hooson, Emlyn | Marks, Kenneth |
| Davies, Bryan (Enfield N) | Horam, John | Marshall, Jim (Leicester S) |
| Davis, Clinton (Hackney C) | Howells, Geraint (Cardigan) | Maynard, Miss Joan |
| Deakins, Eric | Hoyle, Doug (Nelson) | Meacher, Michael |
| Millan, Rt Hon Bruce | Roper, John | Torney, Tom |
| Mitchell, Austin | Ross, Rt Hon W. (Kilmarnock) | Tuck, Raphael |
| Molyneaux, James | Ross, William (Londonderry) | Wainwright, Edwin (Dearne V) |
| Moonman, Eric | Rowlands, Ted | Walker, Harold (Doncaster) |
| Morris, Alfred (Wythenshawe) | Sedgemore, Brian | Walker, Terry (Kingswood) |
| Morris, Charles R. (Openshaw) | Selby, Harry | Ward, Michael |
| Morris, Rt Hon J. (Aberavon) | Shaw, Arnold (Ilford South) | Watkins, David |
| Moyle, Roland | Sheldon, Rt Hon Robert | Watt, Hamish |
| Mulley, Rt Hon Frederick | Silkin, Rt Hon S. C. (Dulwich) | Wellbeloved, James |
| Noble, Mike | Silverman, Julius | Welsh, Andrew |
| Ogden, Eric | Skinner, Dennis | White, Frank R. (Bury) |
| O'Halloran, Michael | Smith, Cyril (Rochdale) | White, James (Pollok) |
| Orbach, Maurice | Smith, John (N Lanarkshire) | Whitehead, Phillip |
| Orme, Rt Hon Stanley | Snape, Peter | Wigley, Dafydd |
| Padley, Walter | Spearing, Nigel | Willey, Rt Hon Frederick |
| Pardoe, John | Spiggs, Leslie | Williams, Alan Lee (Hornch'ch) |
| Park, George | Stallard, A. W. | Wilson, Alexander (Hamilton) |
| Parry, Robert | Steel, Rt Hon David | Wilson, Gordon (Dundee E) |
| Pavitt, Laurie | Stewart, Rt Hon Donald | Wilson, Rt Hon Sir Harold (Huyton) |
| Panhaligon, David | Stewart, Rt Hon M. (Fulham) | Wilson, William (Coventry SE) |
| Price, William (Rugby) | Sloddart, David | Wise, Mrs Audrey |
| Radice, Giles | Stott, Roger | Woodall, Alec |
| Rees, Rt Hon Merlyn (Leeds S) | Taylor, Mrs Ann (Bolton W) | Wool, Robert |
| Reid, George | Thomas, Dafydd (Merioneth) | Wrigglesworth, Ian |
| Roberts, Albert (Normanton) | Thomas, Jeffrey (Abertillery) | Young, David (Bolton E) |
| Roberts, Gwilym (Cannock) | Thomas, Ron (Bristol NW) | |
| Roderick, Caerwyn | Thompson, George | TELLERS FOR THE AYES: |
| Rodgers, George (Chorley) | Tinn, James | Mr. Alf Bates and |
| Rodgers. Rt Hon William (Stockton) | Tomlinson, John | Mr. James Hamilton. |
| Rooker, J. W. | ||
| NOES | ||
| Abse, Leo | Edwards, Nicholas (Pembroke) | King, Evelyn (South Dorset) |
| Aitken, Jonathan | Elliott, Sir William | King, Tom (Bridgwater) |
| Alison, Michael | Emery, Peter | Kitson, Sir Timothy |
| Anderson, Donald | Evans, Fred (Caerphilly) | Knight, Mrs Jill |
| Arnold, Tom | Evans, Ioan (Aberdare) | Knox, David |
| Atkins, Rt Hon H. (Spelthorne) | Eyre, Reginald | Latham, Michael (Melton) |
| Atkins, Ronald (Preston N) | Fairbairn, Nicholas | Lawrence, Ivan |
| Atkinson, David (Bournemouth, East) | Fairgrieve, Russell | Lawson, Nigel |
| Awdry, Daniel | Finsberg Geoffrey | Lee, John |
| Banks, Robert | Fisher, Sir Nigel | Lester, Jim (Beeston) |
| Bell, Ronald | Fletcher, Alex (Edinburgh N) | Lloyd, Ian |
| Bendall, Vivian (Ilford North) | Fookes, Miss Janet | Loveridge, John |
| Bennett, Sir Frederic (Torbay) | Forman, Nigel | McAdden, Sir Stephen |
| Benyon, W. | Fowler, Norman (Sutton C'f'd) | McCrindle, Robert |
| Berry, Hon Anthony | Gardner, Edward (S Fylde) | Macfarlane, Neil |
| Biffen, John | Garrett, W. E. (Wallsend) | MacKay, Andrew (Stechford) |
| Biggs-Davison, John | Glyn, Dr Alan | Marshall, Michael (Arundel) |
| Body, Richard | Goodhart, Philip | Marten, Neil |
| Boscawen, Hon Robert | Goodhew, Victor | Maude, Angus |
| Bottomley, Peter | Gorst, John | Maudling, Rt Hon Reginald |
| Bowden, A. (Brighton, Kemptown) | Gow, Ian (Eastbourne) | Mawby, Ray |
| Boyson, Dr Rhodes (Brent) | Gower, Sir Raymond (Barry) | Maxwell-Hyslop, Robin |
| Brittan, Leon | Gray, Hamish | Mayhew, Patrick |
| Brocklebank-Fowler, C. | Grieve, Percy | Meyer, Sir Anthony |
| Brooke, Peter | Griffiths, Eldon | Miller, Hal (Bromsgrove) |
| Bryan, Sir Paul | Grist, Ian | Mills, Peter |
| Buchanan-Smith, Alick | Grylls, Michael | Mitchell, David (Basingstoke) |
| Buck, Antony | Hall-Davis, A. G. F. | Moate, Roger |
| Budgen, Nick | Hamilton, Michael (Salisbury) | Molloy, William |
| Bulmer, Esmond | Hampson, Dr Keith | Moore, John (Croydon C) |
| Burden, F. A. | Hannam, John | More, Jasper (Ludlow) |
| Carlisle, Mark | Harrison, Col Sir Harwood (Eye) | Morgan, Geraint |
| Chalker, Mrs Lynda | Havers, Rt Hon Sir Michael | Morris, Michael (Northampton S) |
| Clark, William (Croydon S) | Hayhoe, Barney | Morrison, Charles (Devizes) |
| Clarke, Kenneth (Rushcliffe) | Heath, Rt Hon Edward | Morrison, Hon Peter (Chester) |
| Clegg, Walter | Hicks, Robert | Nelson, Anthony |
| Cooke, Robert (Bristol W) | Hodgson, Robin | Neubert, Michael |
| Cormack, Patrick | Hordern, Peter | Onslow, Cranley |
| Costain, A. P. | Howell, David (Guildford) | Page, John (Harrow West) |
| Cowans, Harry | Hunt David (Wirral) | Page, Rt Hon R. Graham (Crosby) |
| Crouch, David | Hurd, Douglas | Page, Richard (Workington) |
| Cunningham, G. (Islington S) | Hutchison, Michael Clark | Parker, John |
| Dalyell, Tam | Irving, Charles (Cheltenham) | Pattie, Geoffrey |
| Davies, Ifor (Gower) | James, David | Percival, Ian |
| Dean, Joseph (Leeds West) | Jessel, Toby | Phipps, Dr Colin |
| Dean, Paul (N Somerset) | Johnson Smith, G. (E Grinstead) | Pink, R. Bonner |
| Dodsworth, Geoffrey | Jones, Arthur (Daventry) | Powell, Rt Hon J. Enoch |
| Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James | Jopling, Michael | Prentice, Rt Hon Reg |
| Drayson, Burnaby | Joseph, Rt Hon Sir Keith | Price, David (Eastleigh) |
| Dunlop, John | Kaberry, Sir Donald | Prior, Rt Hon James |
| Durant, Tony | Kershaw, Anthony | Pym, Rt Hon Francis |
| Eden, Rt Hon Sir John | Kimball, Marcus | Raison, Timothy |
| Rathbone, Tim | Sinclair, Sir George | van Straubenzee, W. R. |
| Rawlinson, Rt Hon Sir Peter | Skeet, T. H. H. | Viggers, Peter |
| Rees, Peter (Dover & Deal) | Smith, Dudley (Warwick) | Wakeham, John |
| Renton, Rt Hon Sir D. (Hunts) | Smith, Timothy John (Ashfield) | Walder, David (Clitheroe) |
| Renton, Tim (Mid-Sussex) | Speed, Keith | Walker, Rt Hon P (Worcester) |
| Rhodes James, R. | Spence, John | Wall, Patrick |
| Ridsdale, Julian | Sproat, Iain | Walters, Dennis |
| Rifkind, Malcolm | Stainton, Keith | Warren, Kenneth |
| Roberts, Wyn (Conway) | Stanbrook, Ivor | Weatherill, Bernard |
| Robinson, Geoffrey | Stanley, John | Wells, John |
| Rossi, Hugh (Hornsey) | Steen, Anthony (Wavertree) | Whitelaw, Rt Hon William |
| Rost, Peter (SE Derbyshire) | Stewart, Ian (Hitchin) | Wiggin, Jerry |
| Sainsbury, Tim | Stradling Thomas, J. | Winterton, Nicholas |
| St. John-Stevas, Norman | Tapsell, Peter | Younger, Hon George |
| Shaw, Giles (Pudsey) | Tebbit, Norman | |
| Shepherd, Colin | Temple-Morris, Peter | TELLERS FOR THE NOES: |
| Shersby, Michael | Thatcher, Rt Hon Margaret | Sir George Young and |
| Silvester, Fred | Thomas, Rt Hon P (Hendon S) | Mr. John MacGregor. |
§ Question accordingly agreed to.
§ Clause 13 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
§ Clause 14 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
§ The First Deputy ChairmanThis concludes the Questions which I am required to put at this hour.
§ Mr. Francis Pym (Cambridgeshire)On a point of order, Sir Myer. I wanted to draw your attention to the situation in which the Committee now finds itself. We understand that you have to operate within the terms of the business motion, but what has happened up to the end of Clause 14 is this. The Government dropped Clause 1 altogether. We completed our discussion on Clause 10. We began to debate one amendment to Clause 2 and one or two amendments to Schedule 2. Apart from that, the rest of the clauses have gone without any debate whatsoever, and I think that that is a legislative scandal. It is worse than what happened over the Scotland Bill. I believe that the Committee ought to express to you its feelings that this is a legislative scandal.
§ Several Hon. Members rose—
§ The First Deputy ChairmanOrder. As the right hon. Member for Cambridgeshire (Mr. Pym) knows full well, file Chair is bound to operate by the Business Committee's decision, which was, I remind hon. Members, passed unanimously by the House.
§ Mr. PymFurther to the point of order, Sir Myer. It is right to say that in the interests of time the business motion was not voted against, but our proceedings do no credit to the House of Commons.
§ The First Deputy ChairmanI do not know about that. All I know is that it 1314 was passed unanimously. I do not know the reasons.
§ Clause 15 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
§ Mr. GowOn a point of order, Sir Myer. You will have seen from the provisional selection of amendments that there were 32 amendments or groups of amendments selected by the Chairman of Ways and Means. In fact, during this afternoon we were able to debate only three of those amendments or groups of amendments. May I reinforce what my right hon. Friend the Member for Cambridgeshire (Mr. Pym) said—that this is not the way in which even the Government themselves intended the guillotine to operate and that the way in which we are debating the Bill is bringing the House of Commons and the legislative process into the greatest contempt?
§ The First Deputy ChairmanThere is no point in pursuing the matter. We are discussing the Bill according to the recommendations and suggestions of the Business Committee.