§ Question again proposed.
Mr. BentonThe Socialists are going into banking, and it is taxpayers' money that will be used to finance that. This is a brief but thoroughly unsatisfactory Bill, and nothing that the Minister said in winding up the debate leads me to believe that Giro will not expand in an uncontrolled, exaggerated manner that will lead to a massive loss in the years to come.
I do not propose to waste any more time—[HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."] It is nice to see some Government Members here. Let us waste no more time talking about the Bill. I suggest to my hon. Friends that, in view of the unsatisfactory nature of the Minister's reply, we vote against the Third Reading of the Bill.
§ Question put, That the Bill be now read the Third time:—
§ The House divided: Ayes 258, Noes 221.
513| Division No. 69. | AYES | 10.1 pm |
| Abse, Leo | Boyden, James (Bish Auck) | Cook, Robin F. (Edin C) |
| Anderson, Donald | Bradley, Tom | Corbett, Robin |
| Archer, Peter | Bray, Dr Jeremy | Cox, Thomas (Tooting) |
| Armstrong, Ernest | Brown, Hugh D. (Provan) | Craigen, J. M. (Maryhill) |
| Ashton, Joe | Brown, Robert C. (Newcastle W) | Crawshaw, Richard |
| Atkins, Ronald (Preston N) | Buchan, Norman | Cronin, John |
| Bagier, Gordon A. T. | Buchanan, Richard | Crosland, Rt Hon Anthony |
| Barnett, Guy (Greenwich) | Butler, Mrs Joyce (Wood Green) | Cryer, Bob |
| Barnett, Rt Hon Joel (Heywood) | Callaghan, Jim (Middleton & P) | Cunningham, Dr J. (Whiteh) |
| Bates, Alt | Campbell, Ian | Davidson, Arthur |
| Bean, R. E. | Canavan, Dennis | Davies, Bryan (Enfield N) |
| Beith, A. J. | Cant, R. B. | Davies, Denzil (Llanelli) |
| Benn, Rt Hon Anthony Wedgwood | Carmichael, Neil | Deakins, Eric |
| Bennett, Andrew (Stockport N) | Carter, Ray | Dean, Joseph (Leeds West) |
| Bidwell, Sydney | Cartwright, John | Dell, Rt Hon Edmund |
| Bishop, E. S. | Clemitson, Ivor | Dempsey, James |
| Blenkinsop, Arthur | Cocks, Michael (Bristol S) | Doig, Peter |
| Boardman, H. | Cohen, Stanley | Dormand, J. D. |
| Booth, Rt Hon Albert | Coleman, Donald | Douglas-Mann, Bruce |
| Boothroyd, Miss Betty | Colquhoun, Ms Maureen | Duffy, A. E. P. |
| Bottomley, Rt Hon Arthur | Conlan, Bernard | Dunn, James A. |
| Eadie, Alex | Leadbitter, Ted | Rooker, J. W. |
| Edge, Geoff | Lector, Miss Joan (Eton and Slough) | Roper, John |
| Edwards, Robert (Wolv SE) | Lewis, Ron (Carlisle) | Rose, Paul B. |
| Ellis, Tom (Wrexham) | Litterick, Tom | Ross, Rt Hon W. (Kilmarnock) |
| Evans, loan (Aberdare) | Loyden, Eddie | Rowlands, Ted |
| Ewing, Harry (Stirling) | Lyon, Alexander (York) | Sandelson, Neville |
| Faulds, Andrew | Lyons, Edward (Bradford W) | Sedgemore, Brian |
| Fernyhough, Rt Hon E. | Mabon, Dr J. Dickson | Selby, Harry |
| Fitch, Alan (Wigan) | McCartney, Hugh | Shaw, Arnold (llford South) |
| Flannery, Martin | McElhone, Frank | Sheldon, Robert (Ashton-u-Lyne) |
| Fletcher, Ted (Darlington) | McGuire, Michael (Ince) | Shore, Rt Hon Peter |
| Foot, Rt Hon Michael | Mackenzie, Gregor | Short, Rt Hon E. (Newcastle C) |
| Ford, Ben | Mackintosh, John P. | Short, Mrs Renée (Wolv NE) |
| Forrester, John | Maclennan, Robert | Silkin, Rt Hon John (Deptford) |
| Fowler, Gerald (The Wrekin) | McMillan, Tom (Glasgow C) | Sillars, James |
| Fraser, John (Lambeth, N'w'd) | McNamara, Kevin | Silverman, Julius |
| Freud, Clement | Madden, Max | Skinner, Dennis |
| Garrett, John (Norwich S) | Magee, Bryan | Small, William |
| Garrett, W. E. (Wallsend) | Mallalieu, J. P. W. | Smith, Cyril (Rochdale) |
| Ginsburg, David | Marks, Kenneth | Smith, John (N Lanarkshire) |
| Golding, John | Marquand, David | Snape, Peter |
| Gould, Bryan | Marshall, Dr Edmund (Goole) | Spearing, Nigel |
| Gourlay, Harry | Marshall, Jim (Leicester S) | Spriggs, Leslie |
| Graham, Ted | Mason, Rt Hon Roy | Stallard, A. W. |
| Grant, John (Islington C) | Meacher, Michael | Stoddart, David |
| Grocott, Bruce | Mellisii, Rt Hon Robert | Stott, Roger |
| Hamilton, James (Bothwell) | Mendelson, John | Strang, Gavin |
| Hamilton, W. W. (Central Fife) | Mikardo, Ian | Strauss, Rt Hon G. R. |
| Hardy, Peter | Millan, Bruce | Summerskill, Hon Dr Shirley |
| Harrison, Walter (Wakefield) | Miller, Dr M. S. (E Kilbride) | Taylor, Mrs Ann (Bolton W) |
| Hart, Rt Hon Judith | Mitchell, R. C. (Soton, ltchen) | Thomas, Jeffrey (Abertlllery) |
| Hattersley, Rt Hon Roy | Molloy, William | Thomas, Mike (Newcastle E) |
| Hayman, Mrs Helene | Moonman, Eric | Thomas, Ron (Bristol NW) |
| Heffer, Eric S. | Morris, Charles R. (Openshawe) | Thorne, Stan (Preston South) |
| Hooley, Frank | Morris, Rt Hon J. (Aberavon) | Tierney, Sydney |
| Horam, John | Mulley, Rt Hon Frederick | Tinn, James |
| Howell, Rt Hon Denis | Murray, Rt Hon Ronald King | Torney, Tom |
| Howells, Geraint (Cardigan) | Newens, Stanley | Tuck, Raphael |
| Hoyle, Doug (Nelson) | Noble, Mike | Urwin, T. W. |
| Huckfleld, Les | Oakes, Gordon | Varley, Rt Hon Eric G. |
| Hughes, Rt Hon C. (Anglesey) | Ogden, Eric | Walden, Brian (B'ham, L'dyw'd) |
| Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen N) | O'Halloran, Michael | Walker, Harold(Doncaster) |
| Hughes, Roy (Newport) | O'Malley, Rt Hon Brian | Walker, Terry (Kingswood) |
| Hunter, Adam | Orme, Rt Hon Stanley | Ward, Michael |
| Irvine, Rt Hon Sir A. (Edge Hill) | Ovenden, John | Watkins, David |
| Jackson, Colin (Brighouse) | Padley, Walter | Watkinson, John |
| Jackson, Miss Margaret (Lincoln) | Palmer, Arthur | Weetch, Ken |
| Janner, Greville | Pardoe, John | White, Frank R. (Bury) |
| Jay, Rt Hon Douglas | Park, George | White, James (Pollock) |
| Jeger, Mrs Lena | Parry, Robert | Whitehead, Phillip |
| Jenkins, Hugh (Putney) | Pavitt, Laurie | Whitlock, William |
| Jenkins, Rt Hon Roy (Stechford) | Pearl, Rt Hon Fred | Willey, Rt Hon Frederick |
| John, Brynmor | Pendry, Tom | Williams, Alan (Swansea W) |
| Johnson, James (Hull West) | Penhaligon, David | Williams, Alan Lee (Hornch'ch) |
| Johnson, Walter (Derby S) | Perry, Ernest | Williams, Sir Thomas |
| Jones, Alec (Rhondda) | Phipps, Dr Colin | Wilson, Alexander (Hamilton) |
| Jones, Barry (East Flint) | Price, C. (Lewisham W) | Wilson, William (Coventry SE) |
| Jones, Dan (Burnley) | Price, William (Rugby) | Wise, Mrs Audrey |
| Judd, Frank | Radico, Giles | Woodall, Alec |
| Kaufman, Gerald | Rees, Rt Hon Merlyn (Leeds S) | Woof, Robert |
| Kerr, Russell | Roberts, Albert (Normanton) | Wrigglesworth, Ian |
| Kilroy-Silk, Robert | Roberts, Gwilym(Cannock) | Young, David (Bolton E) |
| Klnnock, Nell | Robertson, John (Paisley) | |
| Lambie, David | Roderick, Caerwyn | TELLERS FOR THE AYES: |
| Lamborn, Harry | Rodgers, George (Chorley) | Mr. Joseph Harper and |
| Lamond, James | Rodgers, Wiliam (Stockton) | Mr. John Ellis. |
| Latham, Arthur (Paddington) | ||
| NOES | ||
| Adley, Robert | Bottomley, Peter | Clark, Alan (Plymouth, Sutton) |
| Aitken, Jonathan | Bowden, A. (Brighton, Kemptown) | Clark, William (Croydon S) |
| Alison, Michael | Boyson, Dr Rhodes (Brent) | Clarke, Kenneth (Rushclitte) |
| Amery, Rt Hon Julian | Bradford, Rev Robert | Clegg, Walter |
| Arnold, Tom | Braine, Sir Bernard | Cooke, Robert (Bristol W) |
| Atkins, Rt Hon H. (Spelthorne) | Brotherton, Michael | Cope, John |
| Bain, Mrs Margaret | Brown, Sir Edward (Bath) | Cordle, John H. |
| Baker, Kenneth | Bryan, Sir Paul | Corrle, John |
| Bell, Ronald | Buchanan-Smith, Alick | Costain, A. P. |
| Bennett, Dr Reginald (Fareham) | Budgen, Nick | Crawford, Douglas |
| Benyon, W. | Bulmer, Esmond | Crouch, David |
| Berry, Hon Anthony | Burden, F. A. | Crowder, F. P. |
| Biffen, John | Butler, Adam (Bosworth) | Dean, Paul (N Somerset) |
| Blggs-Davison, John | Carlisle, Mark | Dodsworth, Geoffrey |
| Blaker, Peter | Chalker, Mrs Lynda | Douglas-Hamilton, Lord James |
| Boscawen, Hon Robert | Channon, Paul | Drayson, Burnaby |
| du Cann, Rt Hon Edward | Lane, David | Ridley, Hon Nicholas |
| Dunlop, John | Langford-Holt, Sir John | Ridsdale, Julian |
| Durant, Tony | Latham, Michael (Melton) | Rippon, Rt Hon Geoffrey |
| Eden, Rt Hon Sir John | Lawrence, Ivan | Roberts, Wyn (Conway) |
| Edwards, Nicholas (Pembroke) | Le Marchant, Spencer | Rodgers, Sir John (Sevenoaks) |
| Elliott, Sir William | Lester, Jim (Beeston) | Ross, William (Londonderry) |
| Emery, Peter | Lewis, Kenneth (Rutland) | Rossi, Hugh (Hornsey) |
| Ewing, Mrs Winifred (Moray) | Lloyd, Ian | Rost, Peter (SE Derbyshire) |
| Eyre, Reginald | Loveridge, John | Sainsbury, Tim |
| Falrbairn, Nicholas | MacCormick, Iain | St. John-Stevas, Norman |
| Fairgrieve, Russell | McCrindle, Robert | Scott-Hopkins, James |
| Farr, John | Macfarlane, Neil | Shaw, Giles (Pudsey) |
| Finsberg, Geoffrey | Madel, David | Shaw, Michael (Scarborough) |
| Fletcher, Alex (Edinburgh N) | Marshall, Michael (Arundel) | Shelton, William (Streatham) |
| Fletcher-Cooke, Charles | Marten, Nell | Shepherd, Colin |
| Fookes, Miss Janet | Mather, Carol | Shersby, Michael |
| Fowler, Norman (Sutton C'f'd) | Maude, Angus | Sims, Roger |
| Fox, Marcus | Mawby, Ray | Skeet, T. H. H. |
| Fry, Peter | Maxwell-Hyslop, Robin | Smith, Dudley (Warwick) |
| Gardiner, George (Reigate) | Mayhew, Patrick | Speed, Keith |
| Gardner, Edward (S Fylde) | Meyer, Sir Anthony | Spence, John |
| Gilmour, Rt Hon Ian (Chesham) | Miller, Hal (Bromsgrove) | Spicer, Jim (W Dorset) |
| Gilmour, Sir John (East Fife) | Mills, Peter | Spicer, Michael (S Worcester) |
| Godber, Rt Hon Joseph | Miscampbell, Norman | Sproat, Iain |
| Goodhew, Victor | Mitchell, Davild (Basingstoke) | Stainton, Keith |
| Goodlad, Alastalr | Moate, Roger | Stanbrook, Ivor |
| Gorst, John | Molyneaux, James | Stanley, John |
| Gow, Ian (Eastbourne) | Monro, Hector | Steen, Anthony (Wavertree) |
| Gower, Sir Raymond (Barry) | Montgomery, Fergus | Stewart, Donald (Western Isles) |
| Grant, Anthony (Harrow C) | Moore, John (Croydon C) | Stewart, Ian (Hitchin) |
| Gray, Hamish | Morris, Michael (Northampton S) | Stokes, John |
| Griffiths, Eldon | Morrison, Charles (Devizes) | Stradling Thomas, J. |
| Grist, tan | Morrison, Hon Peter (Chester) | Tapsell, Peter |
| Grylls, Michael | Mudd, David | Taylor, R. (Croydon NW) |
| Hall-Davis, A. G. F. | Neave, Airey | Tebbit, Norman |
| Hamilton, Michael (Salisbury) | Nelson, Anthony | Temple-Morris, Peter |
| Hampson Dr Keith | Neubert, Michael | Thatcher, Rt Hon Margaret |
| Hannam, John | Newton, Tony | Thomas, Rt Hon P. (Hendon S) |
| Harrison, Col Sir Harwood (Eye) | Nott, John | Thompson, George |
| Hastings, Stephen | Onslow, Cranley | Townsend, Cyril D |
| Havers, Sir Michael | Oppenheim, Mrs Sally | Tugendhat, Christopher |
| Hawkins, Paul | Osborn, John | Vaughan, Dr Gerard |
| Hayhoe, Barney | Page, John (Harrow W) | Viggers, Peter |
| Henderson, Douglas | Page, Rt Hon R. Graham (Crosby) | Walder, David (Clitheroe) |
| Heseltine, Michael | Parkinson, Cecil | Wall, Patrick |
| Hicks, Robert | Percival, Ian | Warren, Kenneth |
| Holland, Philip | Peyton, Rt Hon John | Watt, Hamish |
| Hordern, Peter | Pink, R. Bonner | Weatherill, Bernard |
| Howe, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey | Powell, Rt Hon J. Enoch | Wells, John |
| Howell, David (Guildford) | Price, David (Eastleigh) | Welsh, Andrew |
| Hunt, John | Prior, Rt Hon James | Wiggin, Jerry |
| Hutchison, Michael Clark | Pym, Rt Hon Francis | Wilson, Gordon (Dundee E) |
| Jones, Arthur (Daventry) | Raison, Timothy | Winterton, Nicholas |
| Jopling, Michael | Rathbone, Tim | Wood, Rt Hon Richard |
| Kellett-Bowman, Mrs Elaine | Rees, Peter (Dover & Deal) | Young, Sir G. (Ealing, Acton) |
| Kershaw, Anthony | Rees-Davies, W. R. | |
| King, Tom (Bridgwater) | Reid, George | TELLERS FOR THE NOES: |
| Knight, Mrs Jill | Renton, Tim (Mid-Sussex) | Mr. Michael Roberts and |
| Knox, David | Rhys Williams, Sir Brandon | Mr. Fred Sylvester |