Mr. Edward M. TaylorI beg to move Amendment No. 13, in page 10, line 45, at end insert:—
(c) in exercising the powers specified in (a) and (b) above, the Authority shall not engage in activities which were not undertaken by the superseded authorities unless an order authorising such extension of activities is approved by the Commons House of Parliament.In a period of five minutes we have to debate one of the most important Amendments to this Bill simply because a great deal of our time has been taken up with an Amendment put forward by supporters of the Government—[Interrup 1192 tion]—on which they decided not to vote after two hours discussion.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. We have had a quiet debate; there is no need to disturb it.
Mr. TaylorThe Bill is a major extension of nationalisation in a country where a larger proportion of the working population works for public authorities than in any country outside the Iron Curtain.
We have just finished discussing an Amendment dealing with the powers of the N.P.A. to manufacture anything under the sun. The Amendment we are now discussing is designed to restrict the powers of the N.P.A. to set up warehousing, shipping and transport facilities 1193 without any practical limitation. Because of the guillotine, and the blatant attempt by hon. Members on the Government side to use up the scarce time of the House, we have only five minutes in which to discuss this serious issue—[Interruption] If the hon. Member for Bristol, Northwest (Mr. Ellis) does not think it important, let him bear in mind what this extension of powers will mean to the port workers of Bristol.
§ Mr. EllisThe hon. Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Edward M. Taylor) has been encouraging his hon. Friends to make speeches and whipping them into the Chamber, and to speak as he does is arrogant nonsense.
Mr. TaylorThe hon. Gentleman must be aware that this is blatant nonsense. Hon. Members on the Conservative side in the Amendments they have put down and in the speeches they have made have used the utmost restraint. There are key issues still to be debated—[Interruption]
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. When the hon. Member for Bristol, North-West (Mr. Ellis) spoke he was listened to. He must listen now.
Mr. TaylorThe hon. Gentleman must be aware, and so must every other hon. Member, that because of the Guillotine we have only minutes in which to deal with key issues affecting Manchester and many other ports and the jobs of thousands of dock workers. We are considering a major extension of nationalisation, and there can never be fair competition between a nationalised industry and the private sector. The Chief Secretary to the Treasury recently gave me an answer which showed that nationalised industries have been writing off capital at the rate of more than £1 million every day of the week since the Government came to power. What private firm has
§ this right? The more the manufacturing powers of nationalised industry are extended, the less is the opportunity for fair and free competition and the greater will be the economic mess into which the country is being plunged. This will mean more taxation, greater losses, and more writing off of capital. This is the price of Socialism and this is what we bitterly oppose.
§ If the Government were concerned for the well-being of Britain and of those who are employed in the industry they would allow the National Ports Authority to concentrate on the great problems which face it. We have seen from the White Paper " In Place of Strife ", now abandoned by the Government, the desperate position of labour relations in the ports. The Amendment suggests that the authority should limit its activities to sorting out the ports and not engage in manufacturing, warehousing, shipping and other activities. The Amendment is designed to restrict Socialism, and I hope that the House will support it.
§ Mr. MulleyI cannot recommend the House to accept the Amendment because to bring every question of manufacturing, warehousing and storage to the Floor of the House would be a nonsense and would be the most ridiculous exercise of management functions by the House.
The hon. Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Edward M. Taylor) complained of lack of time. I remind the House that we had 94 hours in Committee and that every single Amendment, every single Clause and every single Schedule was debated.
§ Question put, That the Amendment be made:—
§ The House divided: Ayes 175, Noes 250.
1197| Division No.[110.] | AYES | [10.30] p.m. |
| Alison, Michael (Barkston Ash) | Biffen, John | Burden, F. A. |
| Allason, James (Hemel Hempstead) | Birch, Rt. Hn. Nigel | Campbell, B. (Oldham, W.) |
| Amery, Rt. Hn. Julian | Black, Sir Cyril | Campbell, Gordon (Moray & Nairn) |
| Archer, Jeffrey (Louth) | Blaker, Peter | Chichester-Clark, R. |
| Atkins, Humphrey (M't'n & M'd'n) | Boardman, Tom (Leicester, S.W.) | Clark, Henry |
| Awdry, Daniel | Bossom, Sir Clive | Clegg, Walter |
| Baker, Kenneth (Acton) | Boyd-Carpenter, Rt. Hn. John | Cooke, Robert |
| Baker, W. H. K. (Banff) | Boyle, Rt. Hn. Sir Edward | Cooper-Key, Sir Neill |
| Barber, Rt. Hn. Anthony | Brewis, John | Cordle, John |
| Beamish, Col. Sir Tufton | Brinton, Sir Tatton | Costain, A. P. |
| Bell, Ronald | Bruce-Gardyne, J. | Crouch, David |
| Bennett, Sir Frederic (Torquay) | Bryan, Paul | Crowder, F. P. |
| Bennett, Dr. Reginald (Gos. & Fhm) | Buchanan-Smith, Alick(Angus, N & M) | Cunningham, Sir Knox |
| Berry, Hn. Anthony | Buck, Antony (Colchester) | Currie, G. B. H. |
| Dalkeith, Earl of | Johnson Smith, G. (E. Grinstead) | Pym, Francis |
| Dance, James | Jones, Arthur (Northants, S.) | Renton, Rt. Hn. Sir David |
| Dean, Paul | Jopling, Michael | Ridley, Hn. Nicholas |
| Deedes, Rt. Hn. W. F. (Ashford) | Joseph, Rt. Hn. Sir Keith | Ridsdale, Julian |
| Dodds-Parker, Douglas | King, Evelyn (Dorset, S.) | Rossi, Hugh (Hornsey) |
| Doughty, Charles | King, Tom | St. John-Stevas, Norman |
| Drayson, G. B. | Kirk, Peter | Scott, Nicholas |
| du Cann, Rt. Hn. Edward | Kitson, Timothy | Scott-Hopkins, James |
| Elliott, R.W.(NV tie-up on-Tyne,N.) | Knight, Mrs. Jill | Sharpies, Richard |
| Emery, Peter | Lambton, Antony | Shaw, Michael (Sc'b'gh & whitby) |
| Errington, Sir Eric | Lancaster, Col. C. G. | Sinclair, Sir George |
| Eyre, Reginald | Lane, David | Smith, Dudley (W 'wick & L'mington) |
| Farr, John | Langford-Holt, Sir John | Smith, John (London & W'minster) |
| Fletcher-Cooke, Charles | Legge-Bourke, Sir Harry | Speed, Keith |
| Fortescue, Tim | Lewis, Kenneth (Rutland) | Stainton, Keith |
| Foster, Sir John | Lloyd, lan (P'tsm'th, Langstone) | Stodart, Anthony |
| Galbraith Hn. T. G. | Macmillan, Maurice (Farnham) | Stoddart-Scott, Col. Sir M. |
| Gilmour, lan (Norfolk, C.) | McNair-Wilson, Michael | Tapsell, Peter |
| Gilmour, Sir John (Fife, E.) | McNair-Wilson, Patrick (New Forest) | Taylor, Sir Charles (Eastbourne) |
| Glover, Sir Douglas | Maginnis, John E. | Taylor, Edward M.(G'gow, Cathcart) |
| Goodhart, Philip | Maude, Angus | Temple, John M. |
| Gower, Raymond | Mawby, Ray | Thatcher, Mrs. Margaret |
| Grant, Anthony | Maxwell-Hyslop, R. J. | Tilney, John |
| Grieve, Percy | Maydon, Lt.-Cmdr. S. L. C. | Turton, Rt. Hn. R. H. |
| Gurden, Harold | Mills, Peter (Torrington) | van Straubenzee, W. R. |
| Hall, John (Wycombe) | Miscampbell, Norman | Vickers, Dame Joan |
| Hall-Davis, A. G. F. | Montgomery, Fergus | Waddington, David |
| Hamilton, Michael (Salisbury) | Morgan, Geraint (Denbigh) | Walker-Smith, Rt. Hn. Sir Derek |
| Harrison, Brian (Maldon) | Morrison, Charles (Devizes) | Wall, Patrick |
| Harrison, Col. Sir Harwood (Eye) | Mott-Radclyffe, Sir Charles | Walters, Dennis |
| Hawkins, Paul | Munro-Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh | Ward, Christopher (Swindon) |
| Heald, Rt. Hn. Sir Lionel | Murton, Oscar | Ward, Dame Irene |
| Heseltine, Michael | Nabarro, Sir Gerald | Wells, John (Maidstone) |
| Hiley, Joseph | Neave, Airey | Whitelaw, Rt. Hn. William |
| Hill, J. E. B. | Nicholls, Sir Harmar | Williams, Donald (Dudley) |
| Hirst, Geoffrey | Noble, Rt. Hn. Michael | Wilson, Geoffrey (Truro) |
| Hogg, Rt. Hn. Quintin | Nott, John | Wolrige-Gordon, Patrick |
| Holland, Philip | Onslow, Cranley | Woodnutt, Mark |
| Hordern, Peter | Pearson, Sir Frank (Clltheroe) | Worsley, Marcus |
| Hornby, Richard | Peel, John | Wright, Esmond |
| Hunt, John | Peyton, John | Younger, Hn. George |
| Hutchison, Michael Clark | Pike, Miss Mervyn | |
| Iremonger, T. L. | Pounder, Rafton | TELLERS FOR THE AYES: |
| Irvine, Bryant Godman (Rye) | Powell, Rt. Hn. J. Enoch | Mr. Hector Monro and |
| Jenkin, Patrick (Woodford) | Price, David (Eastleigh) | Mr. Jasper More. |
| Jennings, J. C. (Burton) | ||
| NOES | ||
| Albu, Austen | Carmichael, Neil | Evans, loan L. (Birm'h'm, Yardley) |
| Allaun, Frank (Salford, E.) | Castle, Rt. Hn. Barbara | Finch, Harold |
| Alldritt, Walter | Chapman, Donald | Fletcher, Raymond (Ilkeston) |
| Allen, Scholefield | Coe, Denis | Foley, Maurice |
| Archer, Peter (R'wley Regis & Tipt'n) | Coleman, Donald | Foot, Michael (Ebbw Vale) |
| Armstrong, Ernest | Concannon, J. D. | Ford, Ben |
| Ashley, Jack | Conlan, Bernard | Forrester, John |
| Atkins, Ronald (Preston, N.) | Craddock, George (Bradford, S.) | Fowler, Gerry |
| Atkinson, Norman (Tottenham) | Crawshaw, Richard | Fraser, John (Norwood) |
| Bacon, Rt. Hn. Alice | Cronin, John | Galpern, Sir Myer |
| Bagier, Gordon A. T. | Crosland, Rt. Hn. Anthony | Garrett, W. E. |
| Barnett, Joel | Crossman, Rt. Hn. Richard | Ginsburg, David |
| Baxter, William | Dalyell, Tam | Golding, John |
| Beaney, Alan | Darling, Rt. Hn. George | Gordon Walker, Rt. Hn. P. C. |
| Bence, Cyril | Davidson, Arthur (Accrington) | Gray, Dr. Hugh (Yarmouth) |
| Benn, Rt. Hn. Anthony Wedgwood | Davidson, James(Aberdeenshire, W.) | Greenwood, Rt. Hn. Anthony |
| Bennett, James (G'gow, Bridgeton) | Davies, E. Hudson (Conway) | Gregory, Arnold |
| Bidwell, Sydney | Davies, G. Elfed (Rhondda, E.) | Grey, Charles (Durham) |
| Binns, John | Davies, Dr. Ernest (Stretford) | Griffiths, Eddie (Brightside) |
| Bishop, E. S. | Davies, Rt. Hn. Harold (Leek) | Griffiths, Will (Exchange) |
| Blackburn, F. | Davies, I for (Gower) | Grimond, Bt. Hn. J. |
| Booth, Albert | Davies, S. O. (Merthyr) | Gunter, Rt. Hn. R. J. |
| Boston, Terence | de Freitas, Rt. Hn. Sir Geoffrey | Hamilton, James (Bothwell) |
| Bottomley, Rt. Hn. Arthur | Delargy, H. J. | Hamilton, William (Fife, w.) |
| Boyden, James | Dell, Rt. Hn. Edmund | Hannan, William |
| Bradley, Tom | Dewar, Donald | Harper, Joseph |
| Bray, Dr. Jeremy | Diamond, Rt. Hn. John | Hart, Rt. Hn. Judith |
| Brown, Rt. Hn. George (Belper) | Doig, Peter | Haseldine, Norman |
| Brown, Hugh D. (G'gow, Provan) | Driberg, Tom | Hattersley, Roy |
| Brown, Bob(N'c'tle-upon-Tyne, W.) | Dunn, James A. | Hazell, Bert |
| Brown, R. W. (Shoreditch & F'bury) | Eadie, Alex | Heffer, Eric S. |
| Buchan, Norman | Edelman, Maurice | Henig, Stanley |
| Buchanan, Richard (G'gow, Sp'burn) | Ellis, John | Herbison, Rt. Hn. Margaret |
| Butler, Mrs. Joyce (Wood Green) | English, Michael | Hilton, W. S. |
| Cant, R. B. | Ennals, David | Hobden, Dennis |
| Hooley, Frank | MacPherson, Malcolm | Roberts, Rt. Hn. Goronwy |
| Horner, John | Mahon, Peter (Preston, S.) | Roberts, Gwllym (Bedfordshire, S.) |
| Houghton, Rt. Hn. Douglas | Mahon, Simon (Bootle) | Robertson, John (Paisley) |
| Howarth, Robert (Bolton, E.) | Mallalfeu, E. L. (Brigg) | Robinson, Rt.Hn.Kenneth(St. P'c'as) |
| Howie, W. | Mallalieu, J.P.W(Huddersfield, E.) | Rodgers, William (Stockton) |
| Hoy, Rt. Hn. James | Mapp, Charles | Rose, Paul |
| Hughes, Rt. Hn. Cledwyn (Anglesey) | Marquand, David | Ross, Rt. Hn. William |
| Hughes, Hector (Aberdeen, N.) | Mason, Rt. Hn. Roy | Rowlands, E. |
| Hughes, Roy (Newport) | Maxwell, Robert | Sheldon, Robert |
| Hunter, Adam | Mellish, Rt. Hn. Robert | Shore, Rt. Hn. Peter (Stepney) |
| Hynd, John | Mendelson, John | Sillars, J. |
| Irvine, Rt. Hn. Sir Arthur | Mikardo, Ian | Silverman, Julius |
| Jackson, Colin (B'h'se & Spenb'gh) | Milian, Bruce | Slater, Joseph |
| Jackson, Peter M. (High Peak) | Miller, Dr. M. S. | Small, William |
| Janner, Sir Barnett | Mitchell, R. C. (S'th'pton, Test) | Snow, Julian |
| Jeger, Mrs.Lena(H'b'n & St.P'cras, S.) | Morgan, Elystan (Cardiganshire) | Spriggs, Leslie |
| Jenkins, Hugh (Putney) | Morris, Alfred (Wythenshawe) | Steel, David (Roxburgh) |
| Johnson, James (K'ston-on-Hull, W.) | Morris, Charles R. (Openshaw) | Steele, Thomas (Dunbartonshire, W.) |
| Jones, Dan (Burnley) | Morris, John (Aberavon) | Stonehouse, Rt. Hn. John |
| Jones, T. Alec (Rhondda, West) | Mulley, Rt. Hn. Frederick | Summerskill, Hn. Dr. Shirley |
| Judd, Frank | Murray, Albert | Swain, Thomas |
| Kenyon, Clifford | Neal, Harold | Taverne, Dick |
| Kerr, Mrs. Anne (R'ter & Chatham) | Newens, Stan | Thornton, Ernest |
| Kerr, Dr. David (W'worth, Central) | Oakes, Gordon | Tinn, James |
| Kerr, Russell (Feitham) | Ogden, Eric | Tomney, Frank |
| Latham, Arthur | O'Halloran, Michael | Wainwright, Richard (Colne Valley) |
| Lawson, George | O'Malley, Brian | Walden, Brian (Alt Saints) |
| Leadbitter, Ted | Oram, Bert | Walker, Harold (Doncaster) |
| Lever, Rt. Hn. Frederick (Newton) | Orbach, Maurice | Wallace, George |
| Lever, Rt. Hn. Harold (Cheetham) | Orme, Stanley | Watkins, Tudor (Brecon & Radnor) |
| Lewis, Arthur (W. Ham, N.) | Oswald, Thomas | Weitzman, David |
| Lewis, Ron (Carlisle) | Page, Derek (King's Lynn) | Weltbeloved, James |
| Lomas, Kenneth | Paget, R. T. | Whitaker, Ben |
| Loughlin, Charles | Palmer, Arthur | White, Mrs. Eirene |
| Lubbock, Eric | Pardoe, John | Whitlock, William |
| Lyons, Edward (Bradford, E.) | Parker, John (Dagenham) | Wilkins, W. A. |
| Mabon Dr. J. Dickson | Parkyn, Brian (Bedford) | Williams, Alan Lee (Hornchurch) |
| McBride, Neil | Pavitt, Laurence | Williams, Clifford (Abertillery) |
| McCann, John | Pearson, Arthur (Pontypridd) | Willis, Rt. Hn. George |
| MacColl, James | Peart, Rt. Hn. Fred | Wilson, William (Coventry, S.) |
| Macdonald, A. H. | Pentland, Norman | Winnick, David |
| McElhone, Frank | Perry, Ernest G. (Battersea, S.) | Winstanley, Dr. M. P. |
| McGuire, Michael | Perry, George H. (Nottingham, S.) | Woodburn, Rt. Hn. A. |
| McKay, Mrs. Margaret | Price, Christopher (Perry Barr) | Woof, Robert |
| Mackenzie, Alasdair(Ross & Crom'ty) | Price, William (Rugby) | Wyatt, Woodrow |
| Mackenzie, Gregor (Rutherglen) | Probert, Arthur | |
| Mackie, John | Randall, Harry | TELLERS FOR THE NOES: |
| Mackintosh, John P. | Rankin, John | Mr. R. F. H. Dobson and |
| Maclennan, Robert | Rees, Merlyn | Mr. Walter Harrison. |
| McMillan, Tom (Glasgow, C.) | Rhodes, Geoffrey |
§ It being after half-past Ten o'clock, Mr. SPEAKERproceeded, pursuant to the Order this day, to put forthwith the Questions on the Amendments, moved by a member of the Government, of which notice had been given.