§ 3.45 p.m.
§ Mr. John Peyton (Yeovil)I beg to move,
That leave be given to bring in a Bill to limit the use of the word Cheddar, as it relates to cheese, to cheese produced in the United Kingdom.I would not suggest for a moment that my proposed modest Measure could be anything other than a helpful gesture to the dairy industry. It is not intended in any way as a solution to all its problems.There is very widespread anxiety about what the consequences will be if we in this country continue to attempt to absorb indefinitely the surplus of other nations. The background of the problem is as follows. Production has been rising continuously in all dairy countries faster than consumption, and a good deal faster than in this country. Sales of liquid milk were down in 1968 for the first time in many years. There were cuts in welfare milk, and an increase in the retail price further damped down consumption.
There has also been a greater use of substitutes, and a really massive and flagrant dumping of cheese has led to an accumulation of stocks which can only be described as mountainous. There is a dual threat to the dairy industry which comes from the falling demand for liquid milk and the fact that the market for its products is being undermined by large-scale imports.
This situation led the chairman of the Milk Marketing Board, to whom all hon. Members would wish to pay tribute for his services to the industry, to say recently that the changes we are now experiencing are more serious than any which the industry has faced this century.
Fears of an early collapse in the market for cheese left the Milk Marketing Board, in its opinion, with no alternative but to cut down home production, with very painful consequences, particularly for the farmhouse cheese-makers. Apart from the very serious loss of skilled men because expensive plant was rendered idle, they were obliged to turn away milk from farmers who had themselves expanded their herds to meet the demand.
427 The pattern of their farming was upset and distorted, and good, efficient producers found themselves in the mortifying situation of having to turn away or ration customers, not because they could not produce the goods but because they were not allowed to do so. I do not believe that there are many industrialists who would put up with such a situation, nor do I believe that there is any industry which can stand it for long.
While some British creameries have been able to enjoy the best of both worlds by going to Ireland and sending their products here, the plight of the British farmhouse cheese-maker can only be described as miserable.
It should be said, in case anyone should be tempted to misrepresent the position, that the dairy industry has neither stood still nor enjoyed an easy, painless progress. During a period of 10 years, about 40,000 people have left the industry, and during the same period the price to the producers has been increased by about 13½ per cent. This is to be compared with the rise of 27 per cent. in the retail price of milk, which should be further compared with a rise over the same period of 32 per cent. in the cost-of-living index.
It is not surprising, therefore, that farmers should feel something rather sharper than dismay at the spectacle of their markets being undermined by imports of subsidised produce at prices which bear little or no relation to those ruling in the countries of origin. It is widely felt to be ironic—[Interruption.]
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. It is difficult for an hon. Member to address the House against a number of general debates.
§ Mr. PeytonI am obliged, Mr. Speaker. I shall endeavour not to detain the House much longer.
It is widely felt that it is ironic that we in this country should underpin by our policies the protectionist and high-price policies of other countries, particularly in the Common Market, by finding room for what they themselves cannot use. It is clear that, by absorbing these surpluses, we are enabling other countries to maintain domestic prices very much higher than those that rule here.
Clearly, action much more far-reaching than this modest Measure will 428 have to be taken, but it would be helpful if the word "Cheddar"—and for that matter, other names such as Cheshire and Caerphilly—were confined to cheeses produced in the United Kingdom. Who will be so bold, rash or unreasonable as to deny that such places as Cheddar, Caerphilly and Cheshire should at least enjoy the same measure of protection as is afforded by our own law to sherry and champagne?
§ 3.52 p.m.
§ Mr. Alfred Morris (Manchester, Wythenshawe)The hon. Member for Yeovil (Mr. Peyton) has made a forceful and attractive, even slightly persuasive, speech and, clearly, has invested a great deal of effort in the preparation of the Bill. Nevertheless, I beg leave to oppose the Motion.
As we have heard, the object of the Bill concerns nomenclature. It seeks to restrict the use of the name "Cheddar" in the naming of cheeses. It proposes that only Cheddar cheese produced in the United Kingdom should be allowed to use the name. It is an interesting idea, but it just does not survive serious examination.
I do not believe there to be any real evidence that housewives are misled into buying imported Cheddar in the belief that it is made in England. Nor is there much evidence that English vodka is frequently mistaken for the Russian brand. Yet I understand that we now have a very good English vodka. Its name, I am told, is Vladiwar vodka, and it is said to be advertised as "Vladi-marvellous".
Hon. Members who take part in family shopping know that, often in supermarkets and other food stores, several varieties of Cheddar cheese are displayed and that they are clearly labelled with the country of origin. If, however, shoppers should still be misled, they have the protection of the Food and Drugs Act, 1955, as well as of the more recent Trade Descriptions Act, 1968. Moreover, the use of the term "Cheddar" by overseas cheese manufacturers is anything but new. The term has been used by Australia since 1850, by the United States since 1851 and by Canada since 1867. So there are some Commonwealth countries which have manufactured the cheese for more than a century. New Zealand supplies 429 us with about one-third of our present requirements and would have genuine cause for complaint if she could not continue to use the name that she has used for her cheese for so long.
The Bill would not even bring about a logical use of the word "Cheddar". It would still allow cheeses to be sold as Cheddar if made, for example, in Scotland and Northern Ireland. But if cheeses can be described as Cheddar if made in Scotland or in Northern Ireland, where much of this cheese is, in fact, made, what possible logic can there be in forbidding an almost identical product from Australia, New Zealand, or Eire from being sold under the same name?
" Cheddar" has become an international word, and justifiably so. As a name for cheese it does not now belong to any one country. "Cheddar" has for over half a century been recognised internationally as the name of a type of cheese. There are even international standards for Cheddar cheese set by the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organisation. That may not commend itself to some hon. Members opposite. But it is a fact that the F.A.O. has set down international standards and, provided that the cheese is of the accepted Cheddar type—which the F.A.O. defines—it is legitimate for overseas countries to use the name.
We must accept that "Cheddar" is a type of cheese and that only a very small part of our requirements could economically be met in Somerset. After all, we do not insist that Channel Islands' or South Devon milk must come from Jersey, Guernsey or Devonshire, or that brussels sprouts must be imported from Belgium.
One effect that the Bill might have is to reduce imports of Cheddar cheese.
§ Whether one agrees or disagrees with the need for such control, a Bill about nomenclature would be a clumsy and backhanded way to limit imports. Imports of cheese are already receiving urgent attention from the Government. Last August, my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food set on foot an attempt to reduce the sendings by overseas suppliers by voluntary means. In addition, the Board of Trade is making progress with a detailed examination of the industry's case for action against dumping and subsidisation of some imported cheeses.
§ The Bill would add little to these efforts. There is no evidence that the public is being misled. The international use of the term to describe a type of cheese is long-standing and is, in fact, a fine tribute to its originators in Somerset. This is a matter in which the hon. Gentleman can take legitimate pride and, of course, I admire his local patriotism. We could not expect an abrupt change like this to be acceptable, particularly to our Commonwealth friends, who, hon. Members know, I regard as being among the very best friends of this country. They would suffer seriously in consequence of the enactment of this Measure. The Bill is not needed. Nor is it either practical or logical. Thus, although I recognise that this will be "hard cheese "for the hon. Gentleman, I invite the House to reject the Motion.
§ Question put, pursuant to Standing Order No. 13(Motion for leave to bring in Bills and nomination of Select Committees at commencement of public business).
§ The House divided: Ayes 126, Noes 178.
433| Division No. 107.] | AYES | [3.59 p.m. |
| Allason, James (Hemel Hempstead) | Bruce-Gardyne, J. | Douglas-Home, Rt. Hn. Sir Alec |
| Astor, John | Buchanan-Smith, Alick (Angus, N & M) | Elliot, Capt. Walter (Carshalton) |
| Atkins, Humphrey (M't'n & M'd'n) | Campbell, Gordon (Moray & Nairn) | Ewing, Mrs. Winifred |
| Awdry, Daniel | Chichester-Clark, R. | Eyre, Reginald |
| Baker, W. H. K. (Banff) | Costain, A. P. | Fisher, Nigel |
| Balniel, Lord | Crawshaw, Richard | Fortescue, Tim |
| Beamish, Col. Sir Tufton | Crouch, David | Galbraith, Hn. T. G. |
| Bence, Cyril | Cunningham, Sir Knox | Gilmour, Sir John (Fife, E.) |
| Bennett, Sir Frederic (Torquay) | Dalkeith, Earl of | Glover, Sir Douglas |
| Bessell, Peter | Dance, James | Goodhart, Philip |
| Blaker, Peter | Dean, Paul | Goodhew, Victor |
| Brewis, John | Digby, Simon Wingfield | Gower, Raymond |
| Brinton, Sir Tatton | Dodds-Parker, Douglas | Gresham Cooke, R. |
| Bromley-Davenport, Lt.-Col. Sir Walter | Donnelly, Desmond | Gurden, Harold |
| Hall, John (Wycombe) | Maudling, Rt. Hn. Reginald | Rodgers, Sir John (Sevenoaka) |
| Hamilton, Lord (Fermanagh) | Mawby, Ray | Royle, Anthony |
| Hamling, William | Maxwell-Hyslop, R, J. | Russell, Sir Ronald |
| Harris, Frederic (Croydon, N. W.) | Maydon, Lt.-Cmdr. S. L. C. | Scott-Hopkins, James |
| Harrison, Col. Sir Harwood (Eye) | Mills, Stratton (Belfast, N.) | Shaw, Michael (Sc'b'gh & Whitby) |
| Harvey, Sir Arthur Vere | Monro, Hector | Smith, Dudley (W'wick & L'mington) |
| Hastings, Stephen | Montgomery, Fergus | Speed, Keith |
| Hawkins, Paul | More, Jasper | Stainton, Keith |
| Hooson, Emlyn | Morrison, Charles (Devizes) | Steel, David (Roxburgh) |
| Hutchison, Michael Clark | Nabarro, Sir Gerald | Taylor, Edward M.(G'gow, Cathcart) |
| Iremonger, T. L, | Nicholls, Sir Harmar | Thorpe, Rt. Hn. Jeremy |
| Jennings, J. C. (Burton) | Nott, John | Tilney, John |
| Johnson Smith, G. (E. Grinstead) | Onslow, Cranley | Turton, Rt. Hn. R. H. |
| Jopling, Michael | Orr, Capt. L. P. S, | Vickers, Dame Joan |
| Kershaw, Anthony | Orr-Ewing, Sir Ian | Waddington, David |
| Kitson, Timothy | Osborn, John (Hallam) | Wainwright, Richard (Colne Valley) |
| Lambton, Viscount | Osborne, Sir Cyril (Louth) | Ward, Dame Irene |
| Lane, David | Page, John (Harrow, W.) | Whitelaw, Rt. Hn. William |
| Langford-Holt, Sir John | Pearson, Sir Frank (Clitheroe) | Williams, Donald (Dudley) |
| Lewis, Kenneth (Rutland) | Peel, John | Wilson, Geoffrey (Truro) |
| Lloyd, Ian (P'tsm'th, Langetone) | Percival, Ian | Wood, Rt. Hn. Richard |
| Longden, Gilbert | Pounder, Rafton | Woodnutt, Mark |
| Lubbock, Eric | Prior, J. M. L. | Wright, Esmond |
| McAdden, Sir Stephen | Pym, Francis | Wylie, N. R. |
| MacArthur, Ian | Quennell, Miss J. M. | Younger, Hn. George |
| Mackenzie, Alasdalr (Ross&Crom'ty) | Ramsden, Rt. Hn. James | |
| Maclean, Sir Fitzroy | Renton, Rt. Hn. Sir David | TELLERS FOR THE AYES: |
| McMaster, Stanley | Ridley, Hn. Nicholas | Mr. John Peyton and |
| Maude, Angus | Ridsdale, Julian | Mr. Peter Mills. |
| Rippon, Rt. Hn. Geoffrey | ||
| NOES | ||
| Alldritt, Walter | Foley, Maurice | McBride, Neil |
| Atkins, Ronald (Preston, N.) | Foot, Michael (Ebbw Vale) | McCann, John |
| Atkinson, Norman (Tottenham) | Forrester, John | MacColl, James |
| Bacon, Rt. Hn. Alice | Fowler, Gerry | McKay, Mrs. Margaret |
| Barnes, Michael | Freeson, Reginald | Mackenzie, Gregor (Rutherglen) |
| Binns, John | Galpern, Sir Myer | Mackintosh, John P. |
| Bishop, E. S. | Gardner, Tony | MacMillan, Malcolm (Western Isles) |
| Booth, Albert | Ginsburg, David | MacPherson, Malcolm |
| Boyden, James | Gray, Dr. Hugh (Yarmouth) | Mahon, Peter (Preston, S.) |
| Bradley, Tom | Gregory, Arnold | Mahon, Simon (Bootle) |
| Bray, Dr. Jeremy | Grey, Charles (Durham) | Mallalieu, J. P. W. (Huddersfield, E.) |
| Brooks, Edwin | Griffiths, David (Rother Valley) | Mapp, Charles |
| Broughton, Dr. A. D. D. | Griffiths, Eddie (Brightside) | Marks, Kenneth |
| Brown, Hugh D. (G'gow, Provan) | Griffiths, Rt. Hn. James (Llanelly) | Mellish, Rt. Hn. Robert |
| Brown, Bob (N'c'tle-upon-Tyne, W.) | Hamilton, James (Bothwell) | Mendelson, J. J. |
| Buchan, Norman | Hamilton, William (Fife, W.) | Millan, Bruce |
| Butler, Mrs. Joyce (Wood Green) | Hannan, William | Miller, Dr. M. S. |
| Carmichael, Neil | Harper, Joseph | Milne, Edward (Blyth) |
| Carter-Jones, Lewis | Harrison, Walter (Wakefield) | Moonman, Eric |
| Chapman, Donald | Haseldine, Norman | Morgan, Elystan (Cardiganshire) |
| Coe, Denis | Healey, Rt. Hn. Denis | Morris, John (Aberavon) |
| Coleman, Donald | Henig, Stanley | Murray, Albert |
| Concannon, J. D. | Herbison, Rt. Hn. Margaret | Norwood, Christopher |
| Conlan, Bernard | Howell, Denis (Small Heath) | Ogden, Eric, |
| Cullen, Mrs. Alice | Hoy, James | Oram, Albert E. |
| Dalyell, Tam | Huckfield, Leslie | Orbach, Maurice |
| Darling, Rt. Hn. George | Hughes, Rt. Hn. Cledwyn (Anglesey) | Orme, Stanley |
| Davidson, Arthur (Accrington) | Hughes, Emrys (Ayrshire, S.) | Owen, Dr. David (Plymouth, S'tn) |
| Davies, G. Elfed (Rhondda, E.) | Hughes, Hector (Aberdeen, N.) | Owen, Will (Morpeth) |
| Davies, Dr. Ernest (Stretford) | Hunter, Adam | Pannell, Rt. Hn. Charles |
| Davies, Ifor (Gower) | Hynd, John | Parker, John (Dagenham) |
| Davies, S. O. (Merthyr) | Irvine, Sir Arthur (Edge Hill) | Parkyn, Brian (Bedford) |
| Delargy, Hugh | Jackson, Colin (B'h'se & Spenb'gh) | Pavitt, Laurence |
| Dobson, Ray | Janner, Sir Barnett | Peart, Rt. Hn. Fred |
| Doig, Peter | Jenkins, Hugh (Putney) | Pentland, Norman |
| Driberg, Tom | Johnson, Carol (Lewisham, S.) | Perry, Ernest G. (Battersea, S.) |
| Dunnett, Jack | Johnson, James (K'ston-on-Hull, W.) | Prentice, Rt. Hn. R. E. |
| Eadie, Alex | Jones, J. Idwal (Wrexham) | Price, Christopher (Perry Barr) |
| Edwards, Robert (Bilston) | Jones, T. Alec (Rhondda, West) | Randall, Harry |
| Edwards, William (Merioneth) | Judd, Frank | Rees, Merlyn |
| Ellis, John | Kelley, Richard | Reynolds, Rt. Hn. G. W. |
| English, Michael | Kerr, Russell (Feltham) | Rhodes, Geoffrey |
| Ennals, David | Lawson, George | Roberts, Albert (Normanton) |
| Evans, Fred (Caerphilly) | Lee, Rt. Hn. Frederick (Newton) | Roberts, Rt. Hn. Goronwy |
| Evans, loan L. (Birm'h'm, Yardley) | Lewis, Arthur (W. Ham, N.) | Robertson, John (Paisley) |
| Faulds, Andrew | Lewis, Ron (Carlisle) | Robinson, Rt. Hn. Kenneth (St. P'c'as) |
| Fernyhough, E. | Lipton, Marcus | Rose, Paul |
| Finch, Harold | Lomas, Kenneth | Ross, Rt. Hn. William |
| Fitch, Alan (Wigan) | Loughlin, Charles | Shore, Rt. Hn. Peter (Stepney) |
| Fletcher, Raymond (Ilkeston) | Lyon, Alexander W. (York) | Silkin, Rt. Hn. John (Deptford) |
| Fletcher, Ted (Darlington) | Silverman, Julius |
| Skeffington Arthur | Tuck, Raphael | Williams, Clifford (Abertillery) |
| Small, William | Urwin, T. W. | Williams, W. T. (Warrington) |
| Spriggs, Leslie | Varley, Eric G. | Wilson, William (Coventry, S.) |
| Steele, Thomas (Dunbartonshire, W.) | Wallace, George | Winnick, David |
| Stonehouse, Rt. Hn. John | Watkins, David (Consett) | Woodbum, Rt. Hn. A. |
| Strauss, Rt. Hn. G. R. | Watkins, Tudor (Brecon & Radnor) | Woof, Robert |
| Taverne, Dick | Weitzman, David | |
| Thomas, Rt. Hn, George | Whitaker, Ben | TELLERS FOR THE NOES: |
| Thomson, Rt. Hn. George | White, Mrs. Eirene | Mr. Charles R. Morris and |
| Tinn, James | Williams, Alan Lee (Hornchurch) | Mr. Alfred Morris. |