HC Deb 28 November 1968 vol 774 cc864-77

Question again proposed.

Mr. Michael Foot

I am aware of the trend in the unemployment figures to which my hon. and learned Friend referred, and I welcomed it in my speech. What I asked was how much he thinks that trend will be reversed by these present measures.

Mr. Taverne

The trend for industrial production is upward and for employment it is upward. While there may be a marginal slowing-down, the trend for industrial production is upward.

The main issue before the House tonight is the Customs (Import Deposits) Bill. In dealing with the Bill, I want, first, to dispose of a number of preliminary points which have been made in the debate and to answer some of the questions before coming to the main principles involved in the scheme. My lion. Friend the Member for Heywood and Barnet—[Laughter.] Sometimes my hon. Friend the Member for Heywood and Royton and the right hon. Member for Barnet (Mr. Maudling) speak the same language, but on this occasion I refer only to my hon. Friend. He gave this Bill somewhat reluctant support. Of course he is not alone in this. (HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."] The Government have introduced this Bill with a certain amount of reluctance.

It was made absolutely clear that the Government view this as a temporary Measure, as a Measure which is necessary in present circumstances to have an immediate impact on balance of payments, but our long-term concern is not with import controls, and certainly not with import quotas. We accept that there will be inconvenience and that there will be anomalies. It is with reluctance that one introduces a Measure of this kind, but its aim is to have an immediate effect on balance of payments which the events of last week made even more necessary than before. It is still necessary to introduce a Bill for the purposes which I shall mention.

Another point I want to dispose of is fie suggestion in the speech of the right hon. Member for Leeds, North-East that the previous noises favourable to this kind of scheme, made for example by the right hon. Member for Barnet, were concerned with a very different kind of scheme. The hon. Member tried to suggest that feeling in favour of this kind of scheme could not possibly apply. Of course the hon. Member cannot say that hon. Members opposite favour the Italian scheme but would not look at a scheme like this, because his right hon. Friend the Member for Enfield, West (Mr. Iain Macleod) said only a few days ago, and I should have thought the hon. Member would have remembered: I have said that I believe that if there is to be a move in this field, then this is the test of various schemes."—[OFFICIAL REPORT. 25th November, 1968; Vol 774, c. 1451 The right hon. Gentleman cannot hide behind the fact that the Italian scheme in some respects is different. To meet this situation the Italian scheme would be less favourable than this scheme. It would accelerate payments abroad whereas this scheme, also a scheme of credit control would, if anything, have the opposite effect. So there is no question about this scheme being in any way inconsistent with the kind of scheme which the right hon. Member for Barnet has in the past advocated.

I come next to some of the detailed questions. I was asked how many civil servants will be needed to administer this scheme. I am informed by the Customs that something like 250 will be needed altogether, but only something like 170 at the outset, and these will be mainly civil servants diverted from other work in the other departments in the Customs themselves. It will mean squeezing other work, and there will he considerable strain on a number of Customs officials, but the ending of the export rebate has made available a number of officials who were not available before.

I was asked about the legal effect——

Mr. Cranley Onslow (Woking) rose——

Mr. Taverne

I cannot give way on all these points.

I was asked about the legal effect under the E.F.T.A. Treaty. The decision as to whether or not the measure is contrary to the E.F.T.A. Treaty is not a matter for an international court. It is taken up within the E.F.T.A. Council, where it is decided in the normal way, and we have every confidence that we shall reach an understanding with our partners.

I think that it was the hon. Member for Cornwall, North (Mr. Pardoe) who asked me about the drawback in the case of our exports to E.F.T.A. I shall look into the matter, but again I understand that it is one that must be decided within the E.F.T.A. framework. Not only shall we discuss it in the future, but discussions on this kind of problem have already started.

My hon. Friend the Member for Heywood and Royton asked whether the 50 per cent. deposit would be 50 per cent. net of cash discount or gross. It will be 50 per cent. of the value of the goods, and for this purpose value is as defined in the Customs and Excise Act, which is the value of the goods on a sale in the open market, and not necessarily the price paid by the importer for them.

I was also asked about the Purchase Tax effect. Purchase Tax will be levied on the wholesale value, which is the price the retailer pays to the wholesaler.

The question of help for re-exports is dealt with in paragraph 3 of Schedule 2. But there are some respects in which we are not entirely happy with the paragraph as it stands and propose to amend it in Committee, when the matter can be discussed further.

I was asked whether there would be obstacles of any kind to interest paid abroad for loans for the deposits made by foreign banks. The short answer is that there will be no obstacles to this. The interest will be payable.

It is realised that there will be difficulties about goods in transit. This happened before in the case of the temporary import surcharge, but we cannot exempt goods in transit, first, because if we did so there would be a very substantial inroad into the scheme as a whole, and, second, because infinitely complex problems of definition would arise as to whether goods were in transit, whether they had already been contracted to be paid for, and whether the property had passed. This is no doubt a matter that will be further considered in Committee.

I was asked about the present position and whether the undertakings given by my hon. Friend the Financial Secretary are being complied with. The answer is, "Yes". We are not aware of any difficulties at the docks. We are not aware of any difficulties with the Customs. It is absolutely clear that they are acting in accordance with the undertaking.

The hon. Member for Wanstead and Woodford (Mr. Patrick Jenkin) asked me about the period from which the 180 days will run. It will be 180 days from the date of the receipt of the cash deposits.

I come to the principles of the scheme——

Sir C. Osborne

Could the Minister tell us by how much the Government expect imports to be cut by the Bill?

Mr. Taverne

I am coming to the principles, the main aims, of the scheme, and the kind of effect it is envisaged that it might have. I shall deal with the hon. Gentleman's question in its proper place.

The right hon. Member for Leeds, North-East asked, what is the aim of the Bill? It is clear. It is a stop-gap Measure, a temporary measure, to accelerate the improvement in our balance of payments, and it is therefore no answer to say, in opposition to the Bill, that it will have only a temporary effect. It is intended to be of only temporary effect. It is intended to be an intermediate Measure.

It is basically a system of credit restriction whose effect is diffused into the economy as a whole through acting on importers, and it will work in two ways. First, there is every reason to suppose that it will have a direct effect on the volume of imports. Hon. Members opposite have tried to have it in different ways. Some have said that it will not have any effect on imports because everyone will be able to obtain credit. Others have said that it will ruin small importers. They cannot have it both ways. [Interruption.] But the right hon. Member for Leeds, North-East tried to have it both ways in his own speech. Other hon. Members have contradicted each other. He was the only one who contradicted himself. Of course both these things cannot happen. [Interruption.] If this is——

Mr. Speaker

Order. It is difficult for anyone to address the House against a background of a multitude of debates.

Mr. Taverne

If this is going to be a major obstacle for people to overcome, it will have an effect on the volume of imports. If finance will be easily available, there will not be the ruination of many small businesses. I agree with my hon. Friend who said that the direct effect on imports is likely to be marginal. I agree with others of my hon. Friends who have said that, in most cases, obtaining of the necessary credit will not prove impossible. But a marginal effect is not necessarily a negligible effect because a marginal effect on several thousand million pounds worth of imports can make a very substantial and immediate contribution to our balance of payments.

I appreciate the difficulties of small companies, although not many small companies are direct importers. In any event, it is not the size of the company but the proportion which imports bear to the total trade of the company which is the crucial issue. To some extent, some will be able to look to the banks.

The hon. Member for Wanstead and Woodford asked me about the position of the banks. It will be for the banks to decide. We have said that they must stay within their ceilings. If it should turn out to be impossible to get the necessary finance from the banks, what about the highly developed capital market the Opposition are so often telling us about —the infinitely flexible, versatile capital market? Of course, there will be other sources from which certain firms will be able to obtain finance. It may be that they will have to look for it from sources different from those they have been used to—perhaps to finance houses or through credit from their customers. In certain circumstances, it may be that they will obtain credit from abroad. If they do, this will mean an immediate and welcome benefit to the sterling reserves.

Sir John Rodgers (Sevenoaks)

What would be the position, therefore, if the German National Bank or other national banks were to offer credit for a six months period? Would that be welcome to the Bank of England?

Mr. Taverne

If the supplier gives credit, it means that payment will be made later. If a foreign bank supplies the equivalent of the deposit and gives a loan, this will have the immediate effect of an increase in our reserves.

The reason why there seems every reason to suppose that this will have an effect on volume is, first, that it will undoubtedly affect prices through the interest which will have to be paid on deposits, which in itself should produce an effect on volume. Second, while the difficulties of obtaining credit may not be insuperable for everyone, they will undoubtedly be some deterrent and will encourage some importers to look for alternative sources at home, or at least to postpone and reduce their demands for supplies from abroad. But even if it does not have a direct effect on the volume of imports, there will still be an indirect effect because so far as deposits are raised at home, they will withdraw from the amount of liquidity available and this in turn should affect the amount available for consumption and reduce the liquidity of the economy and the general pressures on the economy.

This Measure is far less harmful than any of the alternatives, as hon. Gentlemen have said many times. Its impact will be immediate and temporary and it will do a great deal to enable the underlying trend to establish itself. It complies in all respects with the principles after which the right hon. Member for Barnet (Mr. Maudling) hankered when he wrote his article in The Banker. In these circumstances, I strongly recommend the Bill to the House.

10.17 p.m.

Sir Harmar Nicholls (Peterborough)

Some of us get tired of hearing these theoretical speeches from the Dispatch Box. People talk on the theory, but have no understanding of the practical difficulties and it is time that the House sent a practical message to the country instead of all this academic, theoretical nonsense.

The only reason that I have risen is that the hon. and learned Gentleman said, from his theoretical posture, that it was not possible at one and the same time for this not to affect our imports and for the small people to go bankrupt. From a practical point of view, both of these things are possible and, I suggest, likely. We know that the big boys in importing may find the money to pay the deposits and will be able to get the foreign banks to give them the credit to get over this obstacle. We know that the big boys will absorb much of the business which the bankrupt small men will have to hand over because they cannot find anyone to give them the credit.

In this case, the objective of restricting imports cannot be achieved, while, at the same time, an unfair and horrible burden will be put on many people who have played a big part in maintaining the economy.

10.19 p.m.

Mr. Roe Roebuck (Harrow, East) rose——

Hon. Members

Oh, no.

Mr. Speaker

Order. I must protect the rights of any hon. Member who wishes to take part in the debate, even if he has changed his mind twice about doing so during the debate.

Mr. Roebuck

I am incited to speak by the speech of the hon. Member for Peterborough (Sir Harmar Nicholls). I want to accuse the Opposition of outrageous humbug in putting down this Amendment. I am fortified in doing that by the speech of the hon. Member for Louth (Sir C. Osborne). The hon. Member for Louth, with that forthrightness and straightforwardness for which he is noted in the House, and which has endeared him to the whole nation, said earlier that there was a lack of hon. Members on the Opposition side. This is very true and I wonder why that should be so, because previously we had heard that the Opposition were to mount a massive attack upon my right hon. Friends. It seems extraordinary that they did not do so. There may be two reasons for that. One might be that——

Mr. James Hamilton (Bothwell)

On a point of order. Many of us sat here all day with the intention of participating in this debate. We were assured that there was an agreement by both Front Benches—[Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker

Order. The House wants to hear what this mysterious agreement was.

Mr. Roebuck rose——

Mr. Speaker

Order. I am being addressed on a point of order.

Mr. Hamilton

We were informed that this debate would finish at 10.20 to allow hon. Members from the North to get home to their constituencies and we thus concurred with the wishes of the Whips on both sides. Now we have the situation where hon. Members who are domiciled in London are prepared to keep the debate going and not allow their colleagues to get home to their constituents.

Mr. Speaker

Order. This is not a point of order. It is a point of Scotland. Does the hon. Member for Harrow, East (Mr. Roebuck) wish to continue?

Mr. Roebuck

There are occasions when I take no notice of the Whips, par- ticularly when I am incited by the Opposition.

The point I was making about what the hon. Member for Louth said was that there could be two reasons for the lack of attendance by hon. Members opposite. One could be that they were negligent in their duties, and I would not suggest that for one moment. The other could be that their hearts were not in the task which their masters had set them. That is the real reason. The Opposition today are led as incompetently as if they were led by Lord Raglan. What we have had today has been a sham show, a sham fight. I suggest that this Amendment——

Sir Knox Cunningham (Antrim, South)

On a point of order—[Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker

Order.

Sir Knox Cunningham rose——

Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. and learned Gentleman, who wants to raise a point of order, might observe order himself. The Speaker is on his feet.

Sir Knox Cunningham

I want to hear what the hon. Gentleman is saying, Mr. Speaker. Can there be silence?

Mr. Speaker

I share the hon. and learned Gentleman's passionate desire to hear the hon. Member.

Mr. Roebuck

I shall condense my observations and will not give the quotations that I could.

The point I want to make is that for months, indeed years, the right hon. Member for Barnet (Mr. Maudling) has advocated a system of restriction on import credits. I gave him notice that I would raise this if I were fortunate enough to catch your eye, Mr. Speaker. As long ago as July, 1966, in this House, the right hon. Member advocated a system of controls on import credit. As my hon. and learned Friend the Minister of State has said, he repeated this view as recently as June of this year, in The Banker.

The Opposition have tacked on to their Amendment the point about public expenditure. I want to point out that in July, 1966, the rate of public expenditure was far higher than it is today. That is why this Amendment—[Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker

Order. I have a feeling that the House wants to come to a decision. I must protect the hon. Gentleman's right to speak, but I hope that he will take note of the obvious desire of the House.

Mr. Roebuck

I shall finish in one sentence, Mr. Speaker.

This Amendment demonstrates again to the country that the Opposition are unfit not only to govern, but to oppose.

Question put, That the Amendment be made:—

The House divided: Ayes 243, Noes 304.

Division No. 15.] AYES [10.26 p.m.
Alison, Michael (Barkston Ash) Fortescue, Tim Macleod, Rt. Hn. Iain
Allason, James (Hemel Hempstead) Foster, Sir John McMaster Stanley
Astor, John Fraser, Rt.Hn. Hugh (St'fford & Stone) Macmillan, Maurice (Farnham)
Atkins, Humphrey (M't'n & M'd'n) Galbraith, Hn. T. G. Maddan, Martin
Awdry, Dariel Giles, Rear-Adm. Morgan Maginnis, John E.
Baker, Kenneth (Acton) Gilmour, Ian (Norfolk, C.) Marples, Rt. Hn. Ernest
Baker, W. H. K. (Banff) Gilmour, Sir John (Fife, E.) Marten, Neil
Balniel, Lord Glover, Sir Douglas Maude, Angus
Barber, Rt. Hn. Anthony Glyn, Sir Richard Maudling, Rt. Hn. Reginald
Batsford, Brian Godber, Rt. Hn. J. B. Mawby, Ray
Beamish, Col. Sir Tufton Goodhart, Philip Maxwell-Hyslop, R. J.
Bell, Ronald Goodhew, Victor Mills, Peter (Torrington)
Bennett, Dr. Reginald (Gos. & Fhm) Gower, Raymond Mills, Stratton (Belfast, N.)
Berry, Hn. Anthony Grant, Anthony Miscampbell, Norman
Biffen, John Gresham-Cooke, R. Mitchell, David (Basingstoke)
Biggs-Davison, John Grieve, Percy Monro, Hector
Birch, Rt. Hn. Nigel Griffiths, Eldon (Bury St. Edmunds) Montgomery, Fergus
Black, Sir Cyril Gurden, Harold Morgan, Geraint (Denbigh)
Blaker, Peter Hall, John (Wycombe) Morrison, Charles (Devizes)
Boardman, Tom (Leicester S.W.) Hall-Davis, A. G. F. Mott-Radclyffe, Sir Charles
Body, Richard Hamilton, Michael (Salisbury) Munro-Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh
Bossom, Sir Clive Harris, Frederic (Croydon, N.W.) Murton, Oscar
Boyd-Carpenter, Rt. Hn. John Harrison, Brian (Maldon) Nabarro, Sir Gerald
Boyle, Rt. Hn. Sir Edward Harrison, Col. Sir Harwood (Eye)
Brewis, John Harvey, Sir Arthur Vere Neave, Airey
Brinton, Sir Tatton Harvie Anderson, Miss Nicholls, Sir Harmar
Bromley-Davenport, Lt.-Col. Sir Walter Hastings, Stephen Noble, Rt. Hn. Michael
Brown, Sir Edward (Bath) Hawkins, Paul Nott, John
Bruce-Gardyne, J. Hay, John Onslow, Cranley
Bryan, Paul Heath, Rt. Hn. Edward Orr-Ewing, Sir Ian
Buchanan-Smith, Alick (Angus, N&M) Heseltine, Michael Osborn, John (Hallam)
Buck, Antony (Colchester) Higgins, Terence L. Osborne, Sir Cyril (Louth)
Bullus, Sir Eric Hiley, Joseph Page, Graham (Crosby)
Burden, F. A. Hill, J. E. B. Page, John (Harrow, W.)
Campbell, B. (Oldham, W.) Hirst, Geoffrey Pardoe, John
Campbell, Gordon (Moray & Nairn) Hogg Rt. Hn. Quintin Pearson, Sir Frank (Clitheroe)
Carr, Rt. Hn. Robert Hordern, Peter Peel, John
Cary, Sir Robert Hornby, Richard Percival, Ian
Channon, H. P. G. Howell, David (Guildford) Peyton, John
Chichester-Clark, R. Hunt John Pike, Miss Mervyn
Clark, Henry Hutchison, Michael Clark Pink, R. Bonner
Clegg, Walter Iremonger, T. L. Pounder, Rafton
Cooke, Robert Irvine, Bryant Godman (Rye) Powell, Rt. Hn. J. Enoch
Cordle, John Jenkin, Patrick (Woodford) Price, David (Eastleigh)
Corfield, F. V. Johnson Smith, G. (E. Grinstead) Prior, J. M. L.
Costain, A. P. Jones, Arthur (Northants, S.) Pym, Francis
Craddock, Sir Beresford (Spelthorne) Jopling, Michael Quennell, Miss J. M.
Crouch, David Joseph, Rt. Hn. Sir Keith Ramsden, Rt. Hn. James
Crowder, F. P. Kaberry, Sir Donald Rawlinson, Rt. Hn. Sir Peter
Cunningham, Sir Knox Kerby Capt. Henry Rees-Davies, W. R.
Currie, G. B. H. Kershaw, Anthony Renton, Rt. Hn. Sir David
Dalkeith, Earl of Kimball, Marcus Rhys Williams, Sir Brandon
Dance, James Kirk, Peter Ridley, Hn. Nicholas
d'Avigdor-Goldsmid, Sir Henry Kitson, Timothy Ridsdale, Julian
Dean, Paul Knight, Mrs. Jill Rippon, Rt. Hn. Geoffrey
Deeds, Rt. Hn. W. F. (Ashford) Lambton, Viscount Robson Brown, Sir William
Dodds-Parker, Douglas Lancaster Col. C. G. Rodgers, Sir John (Sevenoaks)
Donnelly, Desmond Lane, David Rossi, Hugh (Hornsey)
Doughty, Charles Legge-Bourke, Sir Harry Royle, Anthony
Drayson, G. B. Lewis, Kenneth (Rutland) Russell, Sir Ronald
du Cann, Rt. Hn. Edward Lloyd, Rt. Hn. Geoffrey (Sut'nC'dfield) St. John-Stevas, Norman
Eden, Sir John Lloyd, Ian (P'tsm'th, Langstone) Sandys Rt. Hn. D.
Elliot, Capt. Walter (Carshalton) Lloyd, Rt. Hn. Selwyn (Wirral) Scott, Nicholas
Emery, Peter Longden, Gilbert Scott-Hopkins, James
Errington, Sir Eric Loveys, W. H. Sharples, Richard
Eyre, Reginald Lubbock, Eric Shaw, Michael (Sc'b'gh & Whitby)
Farr, John McNair-Wilson, Patrick Silvester Frederick
Fisher, Nigel MacArthur, Ian Sinclair, Sir George
Fletcher-Cooke, Charles Mackenzie, Alasdair (Ross & Crom'ty) Smith, Dudley (W'wick & L'mington)
Smith, John (London & W'minster) Tilney, John Whitelaw, Rt. Hn. William
Speed Keith Turton, Rt. Hn. R. H. Williams, Donald (Dudley)
Stainton, Keith van Straubenzee, W. R. Wilson, Geoffrey (Truro)
Steel, David (Roxburgh) Vaughan-Morgan, Rt. Hn. Sir John Wolrige-Gordon, Patrick
Stodart, Anthony Vickers, Dame Joan Wood, Rt. Hn. Richard
Stoddart-Scott, Col. Sir M. Waddington David Woodnutt, Mark
Tapsell, Peter Walker-Smith, Rt. Hn. Sir Derek Worsley, Marcus
Taylor, Sir Charles (Eastbourne) Wall, Patrick Wright, Esmond
Taylor, Edward M. (G'gow, Cathcart) Walters, Dennis Wylie, N. R.
Taylor, Frank (Moss Side) Ward, Dame Irene
Teeling, Sir William Weatherill, Bernard TELLERS FOR THE AYES
Temple John M. Webster, David Mr. R. W. Elliott and
Thatcher, Mrs. Margaret Wells, John (Maidstone) Mr. Jasper More.
NOES
Abse, Leo Dewar, Donald Hynd, John
Albu, Austen Diamond, Rt. Hn. John Irvine, Sir Arthur (Edge Hill)
Allaun, Frank (Salford, E.) Dickens, James Jackson Colin (B'h'se & Spenh'gh)
Alldritt, Walter Dobson, Ray Janner, Sir Barnett
Allen, Scholefield Doig, Peter Jay, Rt. Hn. Douglas
Anderson, Donald Dunn, James, A. Jeger, Mrs. Lena (H'b'n&St.P'cras,S.)
Archer, Peter Dunnett, Jack Jenkins Hugh (Putney)
Ashley, Jack Dunwoody, Mrs. Gwyneth (Exeter) Jenkins, Rt. Hn. Roy (Stechford)
Ashton, J. W. Eadle, Alex Johnson, Carol (Lewisham, S.)
Atkins, Ronald (Preston, N.) Edelman, Maurice Johnson, James (K'ston-on-Hull, W.)
Atkinson, Norman (Tottenham) Edwards, William (Merioneth) Jones, Dan (Burnley)
Bacon, Rt. Hn. Alice Ellis, John Jones, T. Alec (Rhondda West)
Bagier Gordon A. T. English, Michael Judd, Frank
Barnes, Michael Ennals, David Kelley, Richard
Barnett, Joel Ensor, David Kenyon, Clifford
Baxter, William Evans, Fred (Caerphilly) Kerr, Dr. David (W'worth, Central)
Beaney, Alan Faulds, Andrew Kerr, Russell (Feltham)
Benn, Rt. Hn. Anthony Wedgwood Fernyhough, E. Lawson, George
Bennett, James (G'gow, Bridgeton) Finch, Harold Leadbitter, Ted
Bidwell, Sydney Fletcher, Raymond (Ilkeston) Lee, Rt. Hn. Frederick (Newton)
Binns, John Fletcher, Ted (Darlington) Lee, Rt. Hn. Jennie (Cannock)
Bishop, E. S. Foley, Maurice Lee John (Reading)
Blackburn, F. Foot, Rt. Hn. Sir Dingle (Ipswich) Lestor, Miss Joan
Blenkinsop, Arthur Foot, Michael (Ebbw Vale) Lever, Harold (Cheetham)
Booth, Albert Ford, Ben Lever, L. M. (Ardwick)
Boston, Terence Forrester, John Lewis, Arthur (W. Ham, N.)
Bottomley, Rt. Hn. Arthur Fowler, Gerry Lewis Ron (Carlisle)
Boyden, James Fraser, John (Norwood) Lomas, Kenneth
Braddock, Mrs. E. M. Freeson, Reginald Loughlin Charles
Bradley, Tom Gardner, Tony Lyon, Alexander W. (York)
Bray, Dr. Jeremy Garrett, W. E. Lyons, Edward (Bradford, E.)
Broughton, Dr. A. D. D. Ginsburg, David Mabon, Dr. J. Dickson
Gordon Walker, Rt. Hn. P. C. McBride, Neil
Brown, Rt. Hn. George (Belper) Gray, Dr. Hugh (Yarmouth) McCann, John
Brown, Hugh D. (G'gow, Provan) Greenwood, Rt. Hn. Anthony MacColl, James
Brown, Bob (N'c'tle-upon-Tyne, W.) Gregory, Arnold Macdonald, A. H.
Brown, R. W. (Shoreditch & F'bury) Grey, Charles (Durham) McKay Mrs. Margaret
Buchan, Norman Griffiths, David (Rother Valley) Mackenzie, Gregor (Rutherglen)
Butler, Herbert (Hackney, C.) Griffiths, Eddie (Brightside) Mackie, John
Butler, Mrs. Joyce (Wood Green) Griffiths, Rt. Hn. James (Llanelly) Maclennan, Robert
Callaghan, Rt. Hn. James Griffiths, Will (Exchange) McMillan, Tom (Glasgow, C.)
Cant, R. B. Hamilton, James (Bothwell) McNamara, J. Kevin
Carmichael, Neil Hamilton, William (Fife, W.) MacPherson, Malcolm
Carter-Jones, Lewis Hamling, William Mahon, Peter (Preston, S.)
Castle, Rt. Hn. Barbara Hannan, William Mahon, Simon (Bootle)
Chapman, Donald Harper, Joseph Mallalieu, E. L. (Brigg)
Coe, Denis Harrison, Walter (Wakefield) Mallalieu, J.P.W. (Huddersfield, E.)
Coleman, Donald Hart, Rt. Hn. Judith Manuel, Archie
Concannon, J. D. Haseldine, Norman Mapp, Charles
Conlan, Bernard Hattersley, Roy Marks, Kenneth
Corbet, Mrs. Freda Hazell, Bert Marquand, David
Craddock, George (Bradford, S.) Healey, Rt. Hn. Denis Marsh, Rt. Hn. Richard
Crawshaw, Richard Henig, Stanley Mason, Rt. Hn. Roy
Cronin, John Herbison Rt. Hn. Margaret Mayhew, Christopher
Crosland, Rt. Hn. Anthony Hilton, W. S. Mellish, Rt. Hn. Robert
Crossman, Rt. Hn. Richard Hobden, Dennis Mendelson, John
Cullen, Mrs. Alice Hooley, Frank Mikardo, Ian
Dalyell, Tam Horner, John
Darling, Rt. Hn. George Houghton, Rt. Hn. Douglas Millan, Bruce
Davidson, Arthur (Accrington) Howarth Harry (Wellingborough) Miller, Dr. M. S.
Davies, Ednyfed Hudson (Conway) Howarth, Robert (Bolton, E.) Milne, Edward (Blyth)
Davies, G. Elfed (Rhondda, E.) Howell, Denis (Small Heath) Mitchell, R. C. (S'th'pton, Test)
Davies, Dr. Ernest (Stretford) Howie, W. Molloy, William
Davies, Harold (Leek) Huckfield, Leslie Moonman, Eric
Davies, Ifor (Gower) Hughes Rt. Hn. Cledwyn (Anglesey) Morgan, Elystan (Cardiganshire)
de Freitas, Rt. Hn. Sir Geoffrey Hughes, Emrys (Ayrshire, S.) Morris, Alfred (Wythenshawe)
Delargy, Hugh Hughes, Hector (Aberdeen, N.) Morris, Charles R. (Openshaw)
Dell, Edmund Hughes, Roy (Newport) Morris, John (Aberavon)
Dempsey, James Hunter, Adam Moyle, Roland
Mulley, Rt. Hn. Frederick Rankin, John Taverne, Dick
Murray, Albert Rees, Merlyn Thomas, Rt. Hn. George
Neal, Harold Reynolds, Rt. Hn. G. W. Thomson, Rt. Hn. George
Newens, Stan Rhodes, Geoffrey Thornton, Ernest
Noel-Baker, Rt.Hn. Philip (Derby, S.) Richard, Ivor Tinn, James
Oakes, Gordon Roberts, Albert (Normanton) Tomney Frank
Ogden, Eric Roberts, Rt. Hn. Goronwy Urwin, T. W.
O'Malley, Brian Roberts, Gwilym (Bedfordshire, S.) Varley, Eric G.
Oram, Albert E. Robertson, John (Paisley) Walden, Brian (All Saints)
Orbach, Maurice Robinson, Rt.Hn. Kenneth (St.P'c'as) Walker, Harold (Doncaster)
Orme, Stanley Rodgers, William (Stockton) Wallace George
Owen, Dr. David (Plymouth, S'tn) Roebuck, Roy Watkins, David (Consett)
Owen, Will (Morpeth) Rogers George (Kensington, N.) Weitzman, David
Padley, Walter Rose, Paul Wellbeloved James
Paget, R. T. Ross, Rt. Hn. William Wells, William (Walsall, N.)
Palmer, Arthur Rowlands, E. Whitaker, Ben
Pannell, Rt. Hn. Charles Ryan, John White, Mrs. Eirene
Park, Trevor Shaw, Arnold (Ilford, S.) Whitlock, William
Parker, John (Dagenham) Sheldon, Robert Wilkins, W. A.
Parkin, Ben (Paddington, N.) Shore, Rt. Hn. Peter (Stepney) Willey, Rt. Hn. Frederick
Parkyn, Brian (Bedford) Short, Rt.Hn. Edward (N'c'tle-u-Tyne) Williams, Alan (Swansea, W.)
Pavitt, Laurence Short, Mrs. Renée (W'hampton, N.E.) Williams, Alan Lee (Hornehurck)
Williams, Mrs. Shirley (Hitchin)
Pearson, Arthur (Pontypridd) Silkin, Rt. Hn. John (Deptford) Williams W. T. (Warrington)
Peart, Rt. Hn. Fred Silverman, Julius Willis, Rt. Hn. George
Pentland, Norman Skeffington, Arthur Wilson, Rt. Hn. Harold (Huyton)
Perry, Ernest G. (Battersea, S.) Slater, Joseph Wilson, William (Coventry, S.)
Perry, George H. (Nottingham, S.) Small, William Winnick, David
Prentice, Rt. Hn. R. E. Snow, Julian Woodburn, Rt. Hn. A.
Price, Christopher (Perry Barr) Spriggs, Leslie Woof, Robert
Prim, Thomas (Westhoughton) Stonehouse, Rt. Hn. John Wyatt Woodrow
Price, William (Rugby) Strauss, Rt. Hn. G. R.
Probert, Arthur Summerskill, Hn. Dr. Shirley TELLERS FOR THE NOES:
Pursey, Cmdr. Harry Swain, Thomas Mr. Ernest Armstrong and
Randall, Harry Swingler, Stephen Mr. Ioan L. Evans.

Main Question put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 39 (Amendment on Second or Third Reading) and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a Second time.

Bill committed to a Committee of the whole House.—[Mr. Harper.]

Committee Tomorrow.