§ Mr. Patrick JenkinI beg to move Amendment No. 2, in page 2, line 35, at the end to insert:
(4) For the avoidance of doubt it is hereby declared that the powers conferred on the Board by section 1(2) of the Act of 1946 shall not extend to any of the Board's operations carried out in the exercise of powers conferred by this Act.This is a probing Amendment, and I will move it as briefly as possible. The point should be clarified, because the Minister made a number of contradictory statements on Second Reading. On 21st November, the right hon. Gentleman indicated that it was not his intention to give the Coal Board the power under the Bill to engage in wider activities concerned with petroleum refining and distribution and petro-chemical manufacturing. He went on to say that if it was thought appropriate later to confer these powers on the Board he would bring in legislation.My hon. and right hon. Friends were not satisfied with this explanation and returned to the point at the end of the debate. My hon. Friend the Member for 1330 Bournemouth, West (Sir J. Eden) was dealing with it when the Minister intervened and said:
The position is that the Coal Board would be in exactly the same position as anybody else in this field. It will be able to use the natural gas for its own purposes. If it wants to use it outside its own purposes—and 'outside' would include associated companies as distinct from the Board or its immediate environs—then it will have to get the permission of the Minister. There will be no further legislation. That is exactly the same position as everybody else is in."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 1st November. 1966; Vol. 735, c. 368.]So in one speech he said there is to be further legislation and in his next speech—in an intervention—he said there was to be no further legislation.The position under Section 9 of the Continental Shelf Act, 1964, is that the Minister has to give consent to the use of the gas—his consent is mandatory—if the gas is to be used for industrial purposes, which broadly means that the gas will be used as petroleum or chemical feedstock. The Act of 1964 cannot possibly confer powers on the Coal Board which are not conferred either by the 1946 Act, the original Act setting up the Coal Board, or by this Bill.
1331 The Minister is obviously having difficulty in hearing my argument because of conversation in the Chamber.
§ Mr. JenkinThe powers of the Coal Board cannot possibly be increased by Section 9 of the 1964 Act, but the words that appear in the 1946 Act, and in particular in Section l (2)(d)—and I will not read the whole Section—do refer towards the end of the paragraph to
or any other of their activitiesand the suggestion has been made that by giving the Coal Board powers under this Bill to engage in the exploration for and selling of natural gas it constitutes that as one of the Coal Board's activities and that therefore taking the 1946 Act in conjunction with the Continental Shelf Act and with this Bill, it does in fact give the Coal Board power to go into petro-chemical refining and all the other forms of manufacture.The Minister did say it was not his intention that this should be done, and the purpose of this probing Amendment is to make it absolutely clear that this is the position and that further legislation would be required if the Coal Board were to be given these powers.
§ The Minister of Power (Mr. Richard Marsh)This is a complicated point, but I do not think that it will detain the House very long. The assurance for which the hon. Gentleman asks is contained in the speech I made on Second Reading. He then raises the point about Section 1(2) of the Coal Industry Nationalisation Act, 1946. I think the hon. Gentleman's main problem is whether there are any powers here which would enable the Coal Board to go
§ further than crude oil. It would not. There is no doubt that the powers conferred by Section 1(2) of the 1946 Act will not extend to the activities the National Coal Board is empowered to take under this Bill.
§
Section 1(2) starts by providing that
The functions of the National Coal Board… shall include the carrying on of all such activities as it may appear to the Board to be requisite, advantageous or convenient for them to carry on for or in connection with the discharge of their duties under the preceding subsection.
These duties all relate to coal. In short, they are the working of coal, the development of the coalmining industry, the making available and supply of coal. In the light of that, it is obvious that these provisions cannot include activities which the Board is empowered to carry on under the Bill which are not concerned with coal.
§ The short answer to the point put by the hon. Gentleman, therefore, is that there is no cause for his fear in this connection. I appreciate the misunderstandings that have occurred, but in view of my assurance that the point is covered and the Amendment is not necessary, I hope that he will be able to withdraw his Amendment.
§ Mr. Patrick JenkinI am grateful to the Minister for his assurance which I am sure will give comfort to the industries affected. In view of the right hon. Gentleman's assurance, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the Amendment.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
§ Motion made, and Question put, That the Bill be now read the Third time: —
§ The House divided: Ayes 161, Noes 93.
1333| Division No. 207.] | AYES | [12.12 a.m. |
| Allaun, Frank (Salford, E.) | Brooks, Edwin | Dunwoody, Dr. John (F'th & C'b's) |
| Allen, Scholefield | Brown, Bob (N'c'tle-upon-Tyne, W) | Eadie, Alex |
| Alldritt, Walter | Buchan, Norman | Edelman, Maurice |
| Archer, Peter | Buchanan, Richard (G'gow, Sp'burn) | Edwards, William (Merioneth) |
| Armstrong, Ernest | Cant, R. B. | Ellis, John |
| Atkins, Ronald (Preston, N.) | Carmichael, Neil | Ensor, David |
| Bagier, Cordon A. T. | Coe, Denis | Evans, loan L. (Birm'h'm, Yardley) |
| Barnes, Michael | Concannon, J. D. | Faulds, Andrew |
| Baxter, William | Conlan, Bernard | Fernyhough, E. |
| Bennett, James (G'gow, Bridgeton) | Crossman, Rt. Hn. Richard | Fletcher, Ted (Darlington) |
| Bidwell, Sydney | Cullen, Mrs. Alice | Floud, Bernard |
| Bishop, E. S. | Dalyell, Tam | Foley, Maurice |
| Blackburn, F. | Davidson, Arthur (Accrington) | Foot, Michael (Ebbw Vale) |
| Blenkinsop, Arthur | Davies, Dr. Ernest (Stretford) | Forrester, John |
| Boardman, H. | Davies, G. Elfed (Rhondda, E.) | Fowler, Gerry |
| Booth, Albert | Davies, Harold (Leek) | Fraser, John (Norwood) |
| Boston, Terence | Doig, Peter | Galpern, Sir Myer |
| Braddock, Mrs. E. M. | Dunnett, Jack | Gardner, Tony |
| Bray, Dr. Jeremy | Dunwoody, Mrs. Gwyneth (Exeter) | Garrow, Alex |
| Gray, Dr. Hugh (Yarmouth) | McBride, Neil | Reynolds, G. W. |
| Grey, Charles (Durham) | McCann, John | Rhode", Geoffrey |
| Hale, Leslie (Oldham, W.) | Mackenzie, Alasdair (Ross&Crom'ty) | Robert", Albert (Normanton) |
| Hamilton, William (Fife, W.) | Mackenzie, Gregor (Rutherglen) | Robertson, John (Paisley) |
| Hamling, William | Mackintosh, John P. | Robinson, W. O. J. (Walth'stow, E.) |
| Hannan, William | McMillan, Tom (Glasgow, C.) | Rodgers, William (Stockton) |
| Haseldine, Norman | McNamara, J. Kevin | Rose, Paul |
| Hazell, Bert | Mahon, Peter (Preston, S.) | Ross, Rt. Hn. William |
| Heffer, Eric S. | Manuel, Archie | Ryan, John |
| Henig, Stanley | Mapp, Charles | Sheldon, Robert |
| Hooley, Frank | Marquand, David | Silkin, Rt. Hn. John (Deptford) |
| Horner, John | Marsh, Rt. Hn. Richard | Silkin, Hn. S. C. (Dulwich) |
| Howarth, Robert (Bolton, E.) | Mayhew, Christopher | Silverman, Julius (Aston) |
| Howie, W. | Millan, Bruce | Small, William |
| Hoy, James | Miller, Dr. M. S. | Steel, David (Roxburgh) |
| Hughes, Emrys (Ayrshire, S.) | Mitchell, R. C. (S'thpton, Test) | Summer-skill, Hn. Dr. Shirley |
| Hughes, Roy (Newport) | Molloy, William | Thomas, George (Cardiff, W.) |
| Hunter, Adam | Morgan, Elystan (Cardiganshire) | Varley Eric G. |
| Jackson, Peter M. (High Peak) | Moyle, Roland | Wainwright, Edwin (Dearne Valley) |
| Jeger, Mrs. Lena (H'b'n&St.P'cras, S.) | Murray, Albert | Walden, Brian (All Saints) |
| Johnson, Carol (Lewisham, S.) | Norwood, Christopher | Walker, Harold (Doncaster) |
| Johnson, James (K'ston-on-Hull, W.) | Oakes, Gordon | Wellbeloved, James |
| Jones, J. Idwal (Wrexham) | O'Malley, Brian | White, Mrs. Eirene |
| Kelley, Richard | Orme, Stanley | Whitlock, William |
| Kenyon, Clifford | Owen, Dr. David (Plymouth, S'tn) | Williams, Alan (Swansea, W.) |
| Kerr, Mrs. Anne (R'ter & Chatham) | Owen, Will (Morpeth) | Williams, Clifford (Abertillery) |
| Lawson, George | Page, Derek (King's Lynn) | Willis, George (Edinburgh, E.) |
| Leadbitter, Ted | Pardoe, John | Wilson, William (Coventry, S.) |
| Ledger, Ron | Park, Trevor | Winnick, David |
| Lee, John (Reading) | Pavitt, Laurence | Winstanley, Dr. M. P. |
| Lestor, Miss Joan | Pentland, Norman | Woodburn, Rt. Hn. A. |
| Lewis, Ron (Carlisle) | Perry, Ernest G. (Battersea, S.) | Yates, Victor |
| Lomas, Kenneth | Perry, George H. (Nottingham, S.) | |
| Loughlin, Charles | Price, Christopher (Perry Barr) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES: |
| Luard, Evan | Price, William (Rugby) | Mr. Alan Fitch and |
| Lubbock, Eric | Randall, Harry | Mr. Harry Gourlay. |
| NOES | ||
| Astor, John | Foster, Sir John | Mitchell, David (Basingstoke) |
| Awdry, Daniel | Gilmour, Ian (Norfolk, C.) | Monro, Hector |
| Batsford, Brian | Gilmour, Sir John (Fife E.) | More, Jasper |
| Biffen, John | Glyn, Sir Richard | Nabarro, Sir Gerald |
| Biggs-Davison, John | Grant, Anthony | Noble, Rt. Hn. Michael |
| Blaker, Peter | Grant-Ferris, R. | Onslow, Cranley |
| Boyd-Carpenter, Rt. Hn. John | Gresham Cooke, R. | Osborn, John (Hallam) |
| Boyle, Rt. Hn. Sir Edward | Griffiths, Eldon (Bury St. Edmunds) | Page, Graham (Crosby) |
| Brewis, John | Gurden, Harold | Peel, John |
| Bromley- Davenport, Lt. -Col. Sir Walter | Hall-Davis, A. G. F. | Peyton, John |
| Brown, Sir Edward (Bath) | Hamilton, Marquess of (Fermanagh) | Pink, B. Bonner |
| Bryan, Paul | Hamilton, Michael (Salisbury) | Price, David (Eastleigh) |
| Buchanan-Smith, Alick (Angus, N&M) | Hawkins, Paul | Prior, J. M. L. |
| Buck, Antony (Colchester) | Hiley, Joseph | Ramsden, Rt. Hn. James |
| Campbell, Gordon | Hill, J. E. B. | Renton, Rt. Hn. Sir David |
| Chichester-Clark, R. | Holland, Philip | Ridley, Hn. Nicholas |
| Clark, Henry | Hordern, Peter | Russell, Sir Ronald |
| Clegg, Walter | Jenkin, Patrick (Woodford) | Sharples, Richard |
| Cooke, Robert | Kimball, Marcus | Shaw, Michael (Sc'b'gh & Whitby) |
| Corfield, F. V. | King, Evelyn (Dorset, S.) | Sinclair, Sir George |
| Costain, A. P. | Kirk, Peter | Stodart, Anthony |
| Crawley, Aidan | Kitson, Timothy | Turton, Rt. Hn. R. H. |
| Currie, G. B. H. | Knight, Mrs. Jill | Wall, Patrick |
| Dalkeith, Earl of | Legge-Bourke, Sir Harry | Walters, Dennis |
| Dean, Paul (Somerset, N.) | Loveys, W. H. | Webster, David |
| Deedes, Rt. Hn. W. F. (Ashford) | Maddan, Martin | whitelaw, William |
| Eden, Sir John | Maginnis, John E. | Wolrige-Gordon, Patrick |
| Elliot, Capt, Walter (Carshalton) | Marten, Nell | Wylie, N. R. |
| Elliott, R. W.(N'c'tle-upon-Tyne, N.) | Maude, Angus | Younger, Hn. George |
| Farr, John | Mawby, Ray | |
| Fisher, Nigel | Maxwell-Hyslop, R. J. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES: |
| Fortescue, Tim | Maydon, Lt.-Cmdr. S. L. C. | Mr. Francis Pym and |
| Mr. Reginald Eyre. |
§ Bill accordingly read the Third time and passed.