§ Question again proposed.
§ 6.13 p.m.
§ Mr. G. BrownI was saying, at the point of interruption, that, despite the ingenious way in which the Leader of the House had picked words out of what I had said in order to support his case, he had strengthened our case against the Motion rather than the other way round.
The right hon. Gentleman certainly frightened me considerably with his reference to the absolute unlikelihood of our being able to have time at all to discuss issues of considerable importance which hon. Members on both sides of the House have been wanting to discuss. 1191 We have our duty to think what we ought to do in the light of the way in which the debate has gone and the statement of the Leader of the House. I am bound to say that I see nothing whatever in that statement which could possibly make me feel now that I ought to advise my hon. and right hon. Friends not to oppose the Government's Motion.
It seems to me that we must develop our protest against the way in which events in the House have been handled during the weeks that will now come to an end if the Motion is passed. We must certainly mark our lack of satisfaction with our inability to discuss serious issues, an inability which the Leader of the House seems to forecast will be with us in the days ahead. We must certainly declare our dissatisfaction with the state of business on the Order Paper and the way in which efforts will be made to get serious and important Bills through the House late at night under cover of inadequate attendance and discussion. We must protest against all these things. I therefore propose to divide the House against the Motion and I hope that my right hon. and hon. Friends will support me in the Lobby.
§ 6.16 p.m.
§ Dame Irene Ward (Tynemouth)I must apologise, first, for not being able to be present during the discussion of the Motion, but I have had to attend the Select Committee on Nationalised Industries. In particular, I want to apologise to my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House for not being able to hear what he said.
After noting that, quite rightly, my right hon. Friend claims the full support of this side of the House in his regard for the liberty of the subject, I should like to know, before supporting the Motion, whether he has seen the Motion on the Order Paper in my name concerning the removal of a councillor from the Bedlingtonshire Council Chamber.
§ [That this House calls upon the Secretary of State for the Home Department and the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs to hold an inquiry into the removal of Councillor William Hall of the Bedlingtonshire Urban District Council by an officer of the Northumberland 1192 Police Force on the instruction of the Chairman of the Council, and is of opinion that, in view of this incident, Parliament should be informed as to what protection elected representatives of local authorities have and under what circumstances their removal from a council chamber can be carried out.]
§ I should also like to know whether my right hon. Friend can assure me that during the Recess an inquiry will be held into the circumstances which permitted an independent member of the Bedlingtonshire Urban District Council to be removed in the course of his duties and thereby prevented from registering his opposition to whatever was the subject under discussion during the meeting of the local authority.
§ I apologise to the House for not knowing the Standing Orders relating to local authority affairs and, therefore, I have included in my Motion a request to my right hon. Friend that he should inform the House what protection freely and democratically elected representatives on local councils have against being bodily removed and prevented from the pursuance of their duties.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I am sorry to have to interrupt the hon. Lady, but the Question is, "That this House, at its rising on Thursday, do adjourn till Tuesday, 11th April", and I have to ask the hon. Lady to relate her observations to that.
§ Dame Irene WardI oppose the Motion unless I receive an assurance that ordinary members of the public will not be deterred, during our Recess, from doing the duty for which they have been democratically elected.
I listened to my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House talking about Laos, which is tremendously important. It appears to me that it is equally important to know whether ordinary people are to be prohibited from doing their duty when it is quite impossible, when the House is in recess, for us to make any protest. My Motion is quite clear and I should be grateful if my right hon. Friend, in pursuance of his support of the liberty of the subject, could say whether we are to be saved from interference in local authorities or whether the House must protect the rights of freely elected representatives on local councils.
§ Mr. Stephen Swingler (Newcastle-under-Lyme)I must warn the Leader of the House that if hon. Members follow the example of the hon. Lady the Member for Tynemouth (Dame Irene Ward) he is liable to be faced with a parade of 88 hon. Members whose names head the present number of early day
§ Motions on the Order Paper which have no chance of being debated.
§ Dame Irene WardMay I have an answer please?
§ Question put:—
§ The House divided: Ayes 236, Noes 158.
1195| Division No. 121.] | AYES | [6.19 p.m. |
| Agnew, Sir Peter | Galbraith, Hon. T. G. D. | Maddan, Martin |
| Aitken, W. T. | Gammans, Lady | Maitland, Sir John |
| Allan, Robert (Paddington, S.) | Gibson-Watt, David | Manningham-Buller, Rt. Hn. Sir R. |
| Allason, James | Godber, J. B. | Markham, Major Sir Frank |
| Arbuthnot, John | Goodhew, Victor | Marten, Neil |
| Atkins, Humphrey | Gower, Raymond | Maxwell-Hyslop, R. J. |
| Barlow, Sir John | Grant, Rt. Hon. William | Maydon, Lt.-Cmdr. S. L. C. |
| Barter, John | Green, Alan | Mills, Stratton |
| Batsford, Brian | Gresham Cooke, R. | Montgomery, Fergus |
| Baxter, Sir Beverley (Southgate) | Grimston, Sir Robert | Moore, Sir Thomas (Ayr) |
| Beamish, Col. Sir Tufton | Gurden, Harold | More, Jasper (Ludlow) |
| Bell, Ronald | Hall, John (Wycombe) | Morgan, William |
| Bennett, F. M. (Torquay) | Hamilton, Michael (Wellingborough) | Morrison, John |
| Bennett, Dr. Reginald (Gos & Fhm) | Harris, Reader (Heston) | Mott-Radclyffe, Sir Charles |
| Berkeley, Humphry | Harrison, Col. J. H. (Eye) | Nabarro, Gerald |
| Bevins, Rt. Hon. Reginald (Toxteth) | Harvey, Sir Arthur Vera (Macclesf'd) | Nicholson, Sir Godfrey |
| Biggs-Davison, John | Harvey, John (Walthamstow, E.) | Nugent, Sir Richard |
| Bingham, R. M. | Harvie Anderson, Miss | Oakshott, Sir Hendrie |
| Birch, Rt. Hon. Nigel | Hastings, Stephen | Osborne, Cyril (Louth) |
| Bishop, F. P. | Hay, John | Page, John (Harrow, West) |
| Box, Donald | Heald, Rt. Hon. Sir Lionel | Page, Graham (Crosby) |
| Boyd-Carpenter, Rt. Hon. John | Henderson, John (Cathcart) | Pannell, Norman (Kirkdale) |
| Boyle, Sir Edward | Henderson-Stewart, Sir James | Partridge, E. |
| Braine, Bernard | Hendry, Forbes | Pearson, Frank (Clitheroe) |
| Brewis, John | Hicks Beach, Maj. W. | Peel, John |
| Brooke, Rt. Hon. Henry | Hill, J. E. B. (S. Norfolk) | Percival, Ian |
| Brooman-White, R. | Hirst, Geoffrey | Pickthorn, Sir Kenneth |
| Bryan, Paul | Hobson, John | Pike, Miss Mervyn |
| Bullard, Denys | Hocking, Philip N. | Pilkington, Sir Richard |
| Bullus, Wing Commander Eric | Holland Philip | Pitt, Miss Edith |
| Burden, F. A. | Hollingworth, John | Pott, Percivall |
| Butler, Rt. Hn. R. A.(Saffron Walden) | Hopkins, Alan | Powell, Rt. Hon. J. Enoch |
| Campbell, Gordon (Moray & Nairn) | Hornby, R. P. | Price, David (Easteigh) |
| Carr, Compton (Barons Court) | Hornsby-Smith, Rt. Hon. Patricia | Prior, J. M. L. |
| Carr, Robert (Mitcham) | Hughes Hallett, Vice-Admiral John | Prior-Palmer, Brig. Sir Otho |
| Cary, Sir Robert | Hughes-Young, Michael | Proudfoot, Wilfred |
| Channon, H. P. G. | Hulbert, Sir Norman | Pym, Francis |
| Chataway, Chistopher | Hurd, Sir Anthony | Quennell, Miss J. M. |
| Chichester-Clark, R. | Hutchison, Michael Clark | Ramsden, James |
| Clark, Henry (Antrim, N.) | Iremonger, T. L. | Rawlinson, Peter |
| Clark, William (Nottingham S.) | Jackson, John | Redmayne, Rt. Hon. Martin |
| Cole, Norman | James, David | Rees, Hugh |
| Cooper, A. E. | Jenkins, Robert (Dulwich) | Rees-Davies, W. R. |
| Cordeaux, Lt.-Col. J. K. | Jennings, J. C. | Renton, David |
| Cordle, John | Johnson, Dr. Donald (Carlisle) | Roberts, Sir Peter (Heeley) |
| Corfield, F. V. | Johnson, Eric (Blackley) | Robertson Sir David |
| Coulson, J. M. | Johnson Smith, Geoffrey | Robinson, Sir Roland (Blackpool, S.) |
| Craddock, Sir Beresford | Kerans, Cdr. J. S. | Roots, William |
| Critchley, Julian | Kerby, Capt. Henry | Ropner Col. Sir Leonard |
| Crosthwaite-Eyre, Col. O. E. | Kerr, Sir Hamilton | Scott-Hopkins James |
| Cunningham, Knox | Kershaw, Anthony | Seymour, Leslie |
| Curran, Charles | Kimball, Marcus | Sharples, Richard |
| Currie, G. B. H. | Kitson, Timothy | Shaw, M. |
| Dalkeith, Earl of | Lambton, Viscount | Shepherd, William |
| d'Avigdor-Goldsmid, Sir Henry | Lancaster, Col. C. G. | Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir Jocelyn |
| de Ferranti, Basil | Langford-Holt, J. | Skeet, T. H. H. |
| Doughty, Charles | Leavey, J. A. | Smith, Dudley (Br'ntf'rd & Chiswick) |
| Drayson, G. B. | Leburn, Gilmour | Smyth, Brig. Sir John (Norwood) |
| du Cann, Edward | Lewis, Kenneth (Rutland) | Speir, Rupert |
| Duncan, Sir James | Lilley, F. J. P. | Stanley, Hon. Richard |
| Duthie, Sir William | Lindsay, Martin | Stevens, Geoffrey |
| Elliot, Capt. Walter (Carshalton) | Litchfield, Capt. John | Steward, Harold (Stockport, S.) |
| Elliott. R. W. (Nwcstle-upon-Tyne, N.) | Loveys, Walter H. | Summers, Sir Spencer (Aylesbury) |
| Emmet, Hon. Mrs. Evelyn | Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh | Talbot, John E. |
| Farey-Jones, F, W. | McAdden, Stephen | Taylor, Edwin (Bolton, E.) |
| Farr, John | MacArthur, Ian | Taylor, W. J. (Bradford, N.) |
| Fell, Anthony | McLaren, Martin | Teeling, William |
| Finlay, Graeme | Maclay, Rt. Hon. John | Temple, John M. |
| Fletcher-Cooke, Charles | McLean, Neil (Inverness) | Thatcher, Mrs. Margaret |
| Fraser, Ian (Plymouth, Sutton) | Macpherson, Nail (Dumfries) | Thomas, Leslie (Canterbury) |
| Freeth, Denzil | Thompson, Kenneth (Walton) | |
| Thompson, Richard (Croydon, S.) | Wakefield, Edward (Derbyshire, W.) | Wolrige-Gordon, Patrick |
| Thornton-Kemsley, Sir Colin | Walder, David | Woodhouse, C. M. |
| Tiley, Arthur (Bradford, W.) | Walker, Peter | Woodnutt, Mark |
| Tilney, John (Wavertree) | Ward, Dame Irene | Woollam, John |
| Turner, Colin | Webster, David | Worsley, Marcus |
| Turton, Rt. Hon. R. H. | Wells, John (Maidstone) | Yates, William (The Wrekin) |
| Vane, W. M. F. | Williams, Paul (Sunderland, S.) | |
| Vaughan-Morgan, Sir John | Wills, Sir Gerald (Bridgwater) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES: |
| Vosper, Rt. Hon. Dennis | Wilson, Geoffrey (Truro) | Mr. Whitelaw and Mr. Noble |
| NOES | ||
| Allen, Scholefield (Crewe) | Henderson, Rt. Hn. Arthur (RwlyRegis) | Pearson, Arthur (Pontypridd) |
| Awbery, Stan | Hill, J. (Midlothlan) | Peart, Frederick |
| Bacon, Miss Alice | Hilton, A. V. | Pentland, Norman |
| Benson, Sir George | Holman, Percy | Plummer, Sir Leslie |
| Blackburn, F. | Houghton, Douglas | Prentice, R. E. |
| Blyton, William | Howell, Charles A. | Price, J. T. (Westhoughton) |
| Boardman, H. | Howell, Denis | Probert, Arthur |
| Bowden, Herbert W. (Leics, S.W.) | Hoy, James H. | Randall, Harry |
| Braddock, Mrs. E. M. | Hughes, Emrys (S. Ayrshire) | Roberts, Goronwy (Caernarvon) |
| Brown, Rt. Hon. George (Belper) | Hughes, Hector (Aberdeen, N.) | Robinson, Kenneth (St. Pancras, N.) |
| Butler, Herbert (Hackney, C.) | Hunter, A. E. | Ross, William |
| Castle, Mrs. Barbara | Hynd, H. (Accrington) | Shinwell, Rt. Hon. E. |
| Chetwynd, George | Irvine, A. J. (Edge Hill) | Short, Edward |
| Cliffe, Michael | Jay, Rt. Hon. Douglas | Silverman Julius (Aston) |
| Collick, Percy | Jeger, George | Silverman, Sydney (Nelson) |
| Craddock, George (Bradford, S.) | Jones, Rt. Hn. A. Creech (Wakefield) | Slater, Mrs. Harriet (Stoke, N.) |
| Cronin John | Jones, Jack (Rotherham) | Slater, Joseph (Sedgefield) |
| Crosland, Anthony | Jones, J. Idwal (Wrexham) | Small, William |
| Cullen, Mrs. Alice | Jones, T. W. (Merioneth) | Smith, Ellis (Stoke, S.) |
| Davies, G. Elfed (Rhondda, E.) | Kelley, Richard | Snow, Julian |
| Davies, Harold (Leek) | Kenyon, Clifford | Sorensen, R. W. |
| Davies, Ifor (Gower) | Key, Rt. Hon. C. W. | Soskice, Rt. Hon. Sir Frank |
| Davies, S. O. (Merthyr) | King, Dr. Horace | Spriggs, Leslie |
| Deer, George | Lawson, George | Steele, Thomas |
| Delargy, Hugh | Lee, Frederick (Newton) | Stewart, Michael (Fulham) |
| Dempsey, James | Lee, Miss Jennie (Cannock) | Stross, Dr. Barnett (Stoke-on-Trent, C.) |
| Diamond, John | Lewis, Arthur (West Ham, N.) | Swingler, Stephen |
| Dodds, Norman | Lipton, Marcus | Sylvester, George |
| Driberg, Tom | Logan, David | Taylor, Bernard (Mansfield) |
| Dugdale, Rt. Hon. John | Loughlin, Charles | Taylor, John (West Lothian) |
| Ede, Rt. Hon. C. | Mabon, Dr. J. Dickson | Thomas, George (Cardiff, W.) |
| Edwards, Rt. Hon. Ness (Caerphilly) | McCann, John | Thomas, lorwerth (Rhondda, W.) |
| Edwards, Robert (Bliston) | MacColl, James | Thomson, G. M. (Dundee, E.) |
| Fernyhough, E. | McInnes, James | Thornton, Ernest |
| Finch, Harold | McKay, John (Wallsend) | Tomney, Frank |
| Fitch, Alan | McLeavy, Frank | Ungoed-Thomas, Sir Lynn |
| Fletcher, Eric | MacMillan, Malcolm (Western Isles) | Wade, Donald |
| Foot, Dingle (Ipswich) | Manuel, A. C. | Wainwright, Edwin |
| Foot, Michael (Ebbw Vale) | Mapp, Charles | Warbey, William |
| Forman, J. C. | Marsh, Richard | Weitzman, David |
| Fraser, Thomas (Hamilton) | Mason, Roy | Wells, Percy (Faversham) |
| Galpern, Sir Myer | Mendelson, J. J. | White, Mrs. Eirene |
| George, Lady MeganLloyd (Crmrthn) | Milne, Edward J. | Whitlock, William |
| Ginsburg, David | Mitchison, G. R. | Wilkins, W. A. |
| Gordon Walker, Rt. Hon. P. C. | Monslow, Walter | Willey, Frederick |
| Gourlay, Harry | Moody, A. S. | Williams, Ll. (Abertillery) |
| Grey, Charles | Morris, John | Williams, W. R. (Openshaw) |
| Griffiths, Rt. Hon. James (Lianelly) | Moyle, Arthur | Willis, E. G. (Edinburgh, E.) |
| Grimond, J. | Oliver, G. H. | Wilson, Rt. Hon. Harold (Huyton) |
| Hale, Leslie (Oldham, W.) | Oswald, Thomas | Woodburn, Rt. Hon. A. |
| Hannan, William | Pannell, Charles (Leeds, W.) | |
| Hart, Mrs. Judith | Pargiter, G. A. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES: |
| Hayman, F. H. | Parker, John (Dagenham) | Mr. Redhead and Dr. Broughton |
| Healey, Denis | Parkin, B. T. (Paddington, N.) |
§
Resolved,
That this House, at its rising on Thursday, do adjourn till Tuesday, 11th April.